Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[nate33]

Tatum is a star, and Brown is a freakish talent. That's a super-talented super-deep team. The only thing I'd criticise Ainge on is re-signing Smart. I just don't think he's worth it, and with Irving back and Rozier proving he's worthy of starters minutes, I didn't see the point of giving Smart a big contract. Not... smart.

That contract is movable though. And lots of people credit Smart for being a leader and to help set the tone for the junkyard dog style of defense that they play.

Ultimately, they're probably going to have to move one of Kyrie, Smart or Rozier, but they should get some value in return when they do.

[Wiz99]

Tatum is a star, and Brown is a freakish talent. That's a super-talented super-deep team. The only thing I'd criticise Ainge on is re-signing Smart. I just don't think he's worth it, and with Irving back and Rozier proving he's worthy of starters minutes, I didn't see the point of giving Smart a big contract. Not... smart.

That contract is movable though. And lots of people credit Smart for being a leader and to help set the tone for the junkyard dog style of defense that they play.

Ultimately, they're probably going to have to move one of Kyrie, Smart or Rozier, but they should get some value in return when they do.

I would not be surprised to see Kyrie traded by the deadline. Boston’s not a place he can be THE man.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I would not be surprised to see Kyrie traded by the deadline. Boston’s not a place he can be THE man.

I think Irving will be traded at some point in the relatively near future, too. Ainge is ruthless and I don't think he's going to want to commit a max deal to a player who is injured as often as Irving is when he has other options. He isn't going to want a repeat of the Isaiah Thomas situation if he can avoid it but he's going to need to find someone willing to pay full price for Irving first, which is easier said than done for an oft-injured player as he approaches free agency. A part of me wonders if his recent talk about wanting to stay in Boston wasn't also a shot to try and get other teams to potentially trade for him suggesting he might be inclined to sign in the offseason or even get extended in order to maximize his earnings potential and not risking another injury. If I had to guess, Irving signs in Boston for the max in the offseason and is promptly traded during the following season.

I also think Ainge has significant feelers out on Horford and Hayward, too. He controls the media better than pretty much any other GM out there (Bryan Colangelo was in the same league, until he was exposed). It wasn't lost on me that it was Bill Simmons, a Celtics fan, that broke that Colangelo story, either. I get the impression some of these GMs go to much greater extents to control their media presences than people normally imagine.

[nate33]

I also think Ainge has significant feelers out on Horford and Hayward, too. He controls the media better than pretty much any other GM out there (Bryan Colangelo was in the same league, until he was exposed). It wasn't lost on me that it was Bill Simmons, a Celtics fan, that broke that Colangelo story, either. I get the impression some of these GMs go to much greater extents to control their media presences than people normally imagine.

Horford?

I think Horford is currently their best player and certainly their most indispensable. He was awesome in the playoffs, totally outplaying Embiid. He is like a poor man's Tim Duncan. He doesn't care about stats, he just does what it takes to win. And his versatility on both ends of the floor is huge for them. He is agile enough to stay on the floor against smallball lineups, and strong enough to defend top tier low post bigs. Offensively, he'll spread out the floor to draw shot blockers from the rim, and he'll post up smaller players when teams go small.

I agree that Hayward might be quietly shopped at some point, but probably not until he is healthy. Hayward is really good, but the emergence of Tatum and Brown makes him expendable and his contract difficult to swallow.

They'll ultimately have to unload either Hayward or Kyrie if they want a long term salary structure that keeps them under the luxtax. But I wouldn't be surprised if they paid a hefty luxtax for a year or two in an attempt at winning a title. Ultimately, they can probably hold their team together for the next 3 seasons until Tatum is up for an extension. By then, one of Hayward or Kyrie will have to go. Also, there's a chance that the gambling revenues will help to resolve the cap crunch.

It's a good problem to have.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're going to wind up trading Horford because, like you said he's extremely important to what they do, but I do think Ainge is always looking for deals. He's still aiming for title runs in a couple seasons and Horford may not be a part of that. If Horford opts out after this season, does Ainge throw the max at him when he's 33? Ainge wants to be as good as he can right now without sacrificing any major future flexibility and he's doing a pretty masterful job of it. I do think Ainge is out in front of this, though, feeling waters even if he won't likely make any moves just yet, though he didn't hesitate to trade KG, Ray and Paul. And yes, it's a very good problem to have and right now he's at the point where even if he were to trade Horford (or Hayward or Irving) he would still have one of the best teams in the east.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Other teams' moves: I'm thoroughly IMPRESSED(!) with the moves Atlanta made this offseason. I like the Hawks talent BETTER than the Wizards.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Three GREAT draft picks



This box score

The Hawks have John Collins, who's very solid. Alex Len, who I'd MUCH RATHER HAVE THAN DWIGHT HOWARD at this point in their respective careers. Taurean Prince lights the Wizards up like it's Christmas tree decoration time. They have competence in their front office and are making way better moves than the Wizards.

Box score is from Game 2 over the Cavaliers (who, like the Wizards are a treadmill team hoping to make the playoffs). TEAM FULL OF YOUNG GUYS (pun intended) wins by over 20. WINNING and doing it the right way. I gave a PICTURE SO THE IDIOTS IN THE WIZARDS FRONT OFFICE WHO DO KNOW ME BY NOW WILL SEE. MAYBE they can see one picture and one box score and figure that I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

GRUNFELD AND BROOKS: Note the stats of non-veterans. Young, 35 and 11. Huerter 9/10/4/2 in limited minutes coming off an injury, in his third game. Spellman (another guy I touted preseason who EG didn't draft IMO because he's a DOOFUS) had 17 points in 25 minutes. As many as Kevin Love in far less minutes. SPELLMAN HAS MADE 5 of his first 7 NBA threes. VERY EVIDENT BEFORE THE DRAFT was the kid had range like a Draymond Green and he played for Villanova, which like Green's Michigan State was a championship program. Huerter's like DONCIC. Good. You thought I'd say white? Irrelevant. Baller who can START at SG already.

The Wizards have no chance moving forward when other teams like the Hawks, Suns, Kings, Nets, and others are smart enough to emulate the Celtics. Draft well. Manage assets in a way that you acquire DEVELOPING, YOUNG, VETERANS who cost less than the bums the Wizards acquire and who are as good already PLUS improving (Len).

Might post 10K times today. This board used to have passionate people. Grunfeld and Dunderhead have extinguished that.

NOTE: I haven't dissed John Wall. Neither he, nor Beal, nor Porter are the problem. This organization lucked the hell out with their lottery picks from 2010, 2012, and 2013. They blew it in 2011 on Vesely, but they had the chance THEN to draft Kawhi, Klay, or Vesely.

TO THIS DAY THE WIZARDS ARE STILL MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES. The picture above is what they COULD HAVE DONE. Too late.

[I_Like_Dirt]

It's Young in particular, though, CCJ. Those other guys are solid and I like where the Hawks are headed but they'd be awful with little to no hope if they didn't have Young. Dropping 35/11 in game 3 while averaging 23/3/8 on a TS% of .581 through the first 3 games of his career. He's going to have hiccups along the way and his competition hasn't been amazing thus far but that's one of the more incredible starts to a career I've seen. I thought Young was being unfairly compared to Jimmer as a prospect and thus far he's absolutely killing it.

Another kid I have my eye on is Mikal Bridges. He looked really damn good in his first game. He can shoot, moves on offense and has a great understanding on defense. Of course, the Suns got spanked in a 29-point loss to the Nuggets but Bridges managed to be +21 in 14 minutes. The problem was that Ariza mailed it in and was -47 in 29 minutes. It's a small sample size and there will be bumps along the way but I already feel that Bridges is better than Josh Jackson and TJ Warren, and it won't be long before he's better than Ariza if he isn't already. Frankly, while he will never be as good as a scorer, I wonder with his defense and overall versatility if he won't be better than Devin Booker. That Bridges kid can play.

[Ruzious]

Other teams' moves: I'm thoroughly IMPRESSED(!) with the moves Atlanta made this offseason. I like the Hawks talent BETTER than the Wizards.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Three GREAT draft picks



This box score

The Hawks have John Collins, who's very solid. Alex Len, who I'd MUCH RATHER HAVE THAN DWIGHT HOWARD at this point in their respective careers. Taurean Prince lights the Wizards up like it's Christmas tree decoration time. They have competence in their front office and are making way better moves than the Wizards.

Box score is from Game 2 over the Cavaliers (who, like the Wizards are a treadmill team hoping to make the playoffs). TEAM FULL OF YOUNG GUYS (pun intended) wins by over 20. WINNING and doing it the right way. I gave a PICTURE SO THE IDIOTS IN THE WIZARDS FRONT OFFICE WHO DO KNOW ME BY NOW WILL SEE. MAYBE they can see one picture and one box score and figure that I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

GRUNFELD AND BROOKS: Note the stats of non-veterans. Young, 35 and 11. Huerter 9/10/4/2 in limited minutes coming off an injury, in his third game. Spellman (another guy I touted preseason who EG didn't draft IMO because he's a DOOFUS) had 17 points in 25 minutes. As many as Kevin Love in far less minutes. SPELLMAN HAS MADE 5 of his first 7 NBA threes. VERY EVIDENT BEFORE THE DRAFT was the kid had range like a Draymond Green and he played for Villanova, which like Green's Michigan State was a championship program. Huerter's like DONCIC. Good. You thought I'd say white? Irrelevant. Baller who can START at SG already.

The Wizards have no chance moving forward when other teams like the Hawks, Suns, Kings, Nets, and others are smart enough to emulate the Celtics. Draft well. Manage assets in a way that you acquire DEVELOPING, YOUNG, VETERANS who cost less than the bums the Wizards acquire and who are as good already PLUS improving (Len).

Might post 10K times today. This board used to have passionate people. Grunfeld and Dunderhead have extinguished that.

NOTE: I haven't dissed John Wall. Neither he, nor Beal, nor Porter are the problem. This organization lucked the hell out with their lottery picks from 2010, 2012, and 2013. They blew it in 2011 on Vesely, but they had the chance THEN to draft Kawhi, Klay, or Vesely.

TO THIS DAY THE WIZARDS ARE STILL MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES. The picture above is what they COULD HAVE DONE. Too late.

I think Spellman was the under-valued player of those 3, and he's off to a hot shooting start - making 5 of his first 7 3's - though he'll need to hit the boards a bit harder - which I expect he will.

And even Alex Len is shooting 3's - he's tried 4 in their first 3 games. Everyone's shooting 3's!

[Ruzious]

It's Young in particular, though, CCJ. Those other guys are solid and I like where the Hawks are headed but they'd be awful with little to no hope if they didn't have Young. Dropping 35/11 in game 3 while averaging 23/3/8 on a TS% of .581 through the first 3 games of his career. He's going to have hiccups along the way and his competition hasn't been amazing thus far but that's one of the more incredible starts to a career I've seen. I thought Young was being unfairly compared to Jimmer as a prospect and thus far he's absolutely killing it.

Another kid I have my eye on is Mikal Bridges. He looked really damn good in his first game. He can shoot, moves on offense and has a great understanding on defense. Of course, the Suns got spanked in a 29-point loss to the Nuggets but Bridges managed to be +21 in 14 minutes. The problem was that Ariza mailed it in and was -47 in 29 minutes. It's a small sample size and there will be bumps along the way but I already feel that Bridges is better than Josh Jackson and TJ Warren, and it won't be long before he's better than Ariza if he isn't already. Frankly, while he will never be as good as a scorer, I wonder with his defense and overall versatility if he won't be better than Devin Booker. That Bridges kid can play.

Yeah, Bridges is the player I was hoping the Wiz would trade up for - using Oubre. He's got the mentality that Oubre lacks - so solid and consistent with the athleticism and defensive mind-set.

[Ruzious]

Of these Bucks players: Giannis, Eric Bledsoe, and Khris Middleton, who has which stats:

1. 25.7 PER and .759 TS%
2. 25.5 PER and .664 TS%
3. 21.6 PER and .499 TS%

Spoiler:

1 is Middleton, 2 is Bledsoe, and 3 is Giannis.

[I_Like_Dirt]

The guy shooting over 65% from 3 is the guy with the TS% of .759!

Heck, Bledsoe is currently shooting about 8% higher from 3 than his career average, too. Meanwhile Giannis is shooting 8% from 3 so far this season; he isn't a good shooter but he also isn't that bad. Those numbers are going to fluctuate pretty significantly as the season goes along.

[closg00]

JaVale is having a career year, dunno if it’s the LeBron effect, but he is posting his best stats yet.

[dckingsfan]

JaVale is having a career year, dunno if it’s the LeBron effect, but he is posting his best stats yet.

What is interesting is that LeBron isn't playing very well (yet). At 34 is he starting to "lose" it?

[stilldropin20]

Other teams' moves: I'm thoroughly IMPRESSED(!) with the moves Atlanta made this offseason. I like the Hawks talent BETTER than the Wizards.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Three GREAT draft picks



This box score

The Hawks have John Collins, who's very solid. Alex Len, who I'd MUCH RATHER HAVE THAN DWIGHT HOWARD at this point in their respective careers. Taurean Prince lights the Wizards up like it's Christmas tree decoration time. They have competence in their front office and are making way better moves than the Wizards.

Box score is from Game 2 over the Cavaliers (who, like the Wizards are a treadmill team hoping to make the playoffs). TEAM FULL OF YOUNG GUYS (pun intended) wins by over 20. WINNING and doing it the right way. I gave a PICTURE SO THE IDIOTS IN THE WIZARDS FRONT OFFICE WHO DO KNOW ME BY NOW WILL SEE. MAYBE they can see one picture and one box score and figure that I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

GRUNFELD AND BROOKS: Note the stats of non-veterans. Young, 35 and 11. Huerter 9/10/4/2 in limited minutes coming off an injury, in his third game. Spellman (another guy I touted preseason who EG didn't draft IMO because he's a DOOFUS) had 17 points in 25 minutes. As many as Kevin Love in far less minutes. SPELLMAN HAS MADE 5 of his first 7 NBA threes. VERY EVIDENT BEFORE THE DRAFT was the kid had range like a Draymond Green and he played for Villanova, which like Green's Michigan State was a championship program. Huerter's like DONCIC. Good. You thought I'd say white? Irrelevant. Baller who can START at SG already.

The Wizards have no chance moving forward when other teams like the Hawks, Suns, Kings, Nets, and others are smart enough to emulate the Celtics. Draft well. Manage assets in a way that you acquire DEVELOPING, YOUNG, VETERANS who cost less than the bums the Wizards acquire and who are as good already PLUS improving (Len).

Might post 10K times today. This board used to have passionate people. Grunfeld and Dunderhead have extinguished that.

NOTE: I haven't dissed John Wall. Neither he, nor Beal, nor Porter are the problem. This organization lucked the hell out with their lottery picks from 2010, 2012, and 2013. They blew it in 2011 on Vesely, but they had the chance THEN to draft Kawhi, Klay, or Vesely.

TO THIS DAY THE WIZARDS ARE STILL MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES. The picture above is what they COULD HAVE DONE. Too late.

love trae going forward...he has a lot to learn...taking some shot that just are not there at the NBA level...and he has to make sure that he does NOT lose his confidence while learning.

But.....Doncic was the much better player. I wanted Bulls to move up badly and i would have thrown in L.Markk to get Doncic.

also T Prince is a very good player.

[Ruzious]

Before the 2017 draft, a few us were saying we need to get a late first rounder to get Josh Hart (no, not Thomas Bryant). SSS of 4 games this season - He's getting starters minutes already, and per 36 mins, he's averaging 19.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.8 assists/1.8 to's (meh), 2.6 steals, and 0.9 blocks while shooting 55.3% from the field including 52.2% from 3 on high volume (6.7 attempts per 36). And he'll be a terrific defender - he's strong enough to defend 3's and rebounds better than their forwards not named Lebron.

[Ruzious]

The "Budenholzer Effect" on the Bucks... through 4 games, the Bucks shot attempts... 91.7% have been either from 3 point range or from inside the paint. They're 4-0, btw... whipped the 76ers last night. Giannis might be their worst 3 point shooter, but he has totally bought into Buddenholzer's views, and expect him to become a good 3 point shooter by later this season. If the Wiz had a Budenholzer, Otto Porter's shot attempts would double overnight. It's not even a question. Just sayin.

[payitforward]

Before the 2017 draft, a few us were saying we need to get a late first rounder to get Josh Hart (no, not Thomas Bryant). SSS of 4 games this season - He's getting starters minutes already, and per 36 mins, he's averaging 19.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.8 assists/1.8 to's (meh), 2.6 steals, and 0.9 blocks while shooting 55.3% from the field including 52.2% from 3 on high volume (6.7 attempts per 36). And he'll be a terrific defender - he's strong enough to defend 3's and rebounds better than their forwards not named Lebron.

Yes. He looks like the biggest draft steal since Larry Nance Jr.

[LyricalRico]

The Cleveland Cavaliers have fired Tyronn Lue as head coach.

The Cavaliers have begun the 18-19 season, their first without LeBron James, with an 0-6 start.

Lue has three seasons remaining on a five-year, $35 million contract.

A source told The Athletic the players are “pissed.”

Never thought Lue was that great of a coach, but it really makes no sense to fire him at this point in the season. The Cavs should have done it right when LeBron left or else wait until next offseason as part of their rebuild. Only thing I can think of is that Cleveland must be delusional about their post-LeBron chances. They're going to be bad this year, regardless who their coach is.

[Ruzious]

The Cleveland Cavaliers have fired Tyronn Lue as head coach.

The Cavaliers have begun the 18-19 season, their first without LeBron James, with an 0-6 start.

Lue has three seasons remaining on a five-year, $35 million contract.

A source told The Athletic the players are “pissed.”

Never thought Lue was that great of a coach, but it really makes no sense to fire him at this point in the season. The Cavs should have done it right when LeBron left or else wait until next offseason as part of their rebuild. Only thing I can think of is that Cleveland must be delusional about their post-LeBron chances. They're going to be bad this year, regardless who their coach is.

Lue was in a no-win situation - with an owner who STILL refuses to understand how much Lebron meant to his teams. Notice Gilbert refused to believe it only when Lebron wasn't on his team. When he was on his team, he treated Lebron like royalty. When he wasn't, meh, we don't need that overrated guy.

Despite Cleve's demise, the East is finally improving. Toronto acquiring Leonard gave them the East's top player. Boston gets 2 all-stars who basically didn't play last season. Milwaukee added a head coach who has dramatically changed the team and their outlook. And Philly continues to improve (despite a slow start) with 2 of the top young talents in basketball. Tonight, 6-0 Toronto comes to 6-0 Milwaukee, and it's a happening. Basketball people (hoopies?) are excited about it. Who'dathunkthat?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Other teams' moves: I'm thoroughly IMPRESSED(!) with the moves Atlanta made this offseason. I like the Hawks talent BETTER than the Wizards.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Three GREAT draft picks



This box score

The Hawks have John Collins, who's very solid. Alex Len, who I'd MUCH RATHER HAVE THAN DWIGHT HOWARD at this point in their respective careers. Taurean Prince lights the Wizards up like it's Christmas tree decoration time. They have competence in their front office and are making way better moves than the Wizards.

Box score is from Game 2 over the Cavaliers (who, like the Wizards are a treadmill team hoping to make the playoffs). TEAM FULL OF YOUNG GUYS (pun intended) wins by over 20. WINNING and doing it the right way. I gave a PICTURE SO THE IDIOTS IN THE WIZARDS FRONT OFFICE WHO DO KNOW ME BY NOW WILL SEE. MAYBE they can see one picture and one box score and figure that I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

GRUNFELD AND BROOKS: Note the stats of non-veterans. Young, 35 and 11. Huerter 9/10/4/2 in limited minutes coming off an injury, in his third game. Spellman (another guy I touted preseason who EG didn't draft IMO because he's a DOOFUS) had 17 points in 25 minutes. As many as Kevin Love in far less minutes. SPELLMAN HAS MADE 5 of his first 7 NBA threes. VERY EVIDENT BEFORE THE DRAFT was the kid had range like a Draymond Green and he played for Villanova, which like Green's Michigan State was a championship program. Huerter's like DONCIC. Good. You thought I'd say white? Irrelevant. Baller who can START at SG already.

The Wizards have no chance moving forward when other teams like the Hawks, Suns, Kings, Nets, and others are smart enough to emulate the Celtics. Draft well. Manage assets in a way that you acquire DEVELOPING, YOUNG, VETERANS who cost less than the bums the Wizards acquire and who are as good already PLUS improving (Len).

Might post 10K times today. This board used to have passionate people. Grunfeld and Dunderhead have extinguished that.

NOTE: I haven't dissed John Wall. Neither he, nor Beal, nor Porter are the problem. This organization lucked the hell out with their lottery picks from 2010, 2012, and 2013. They blew it in 2011 on Vesely, but they had the chance THEN to draft Kawhi, Klay, or Vesely.

TO THIS DAY THE WIZARDS ARE STILL MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES. The picture above is what they COULD HAVE DONE. Too late.

love trae going forward...he has a lot to learn...taking some shot that just are not there at the NBA level...and he has to make sure that he does NOT lose his confidence while learning.

But.....Doncic was the much better player. I wanted Bulls to move up badly and i would have thrown in L.Markk to get Doncic.

also T Prince is a very good player.

I'm avoiding the Trae or Luka comparisons. They're supportive of one another.

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