Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior
Knightro wrote:If Vucevic is so good that he has to play 30 MPG, then that leaves Bamba 18 MPG as his backup. Period. Don't like your top lotto pick only playing 18 MPG? Then trade Vuc.
Forcing another 6-7 minutes of Bamba each night out of position isn't beneficial to his development and it sure as heck isn't beneficial to the Magic on the court.
Knightro wrote:If Vucevic is so good that he has to play 30 MPG, then that leaves Bamba 18 MPG as his backup. Period. Don't like your top lotto pick only playing 18 MPG? Then trade Vuc.
Forcing another 6-7 minutes of Bamba each night out of position isn't beneficial to his development and it sure as heck isn't beneficial to the Magic on the court.
Def Swami wrote:Knightro wrote:If Vucevic is so good that he has to play 30 MPG, then that leaves Bamba 18 MPG as his backup. Period. Don't like your top lotto pick only playing 18 MPG? Then trade Vuc.
Forcing another 6-7 minutes of Bamba each night out of position isn't beneficial to his development and it sure as heck isn't beneficial to the Magic on the court.
Agree. It's essentially a lose-lose situation.
PrimeThyme wrote:PennytoShaq wrote:PrimeThyme wrote:The starting lineup has put up quite respectable advanced stats actually, and the bench unit with AG, Ross, Simmons ,Bamba, and Grant has been phenomenal (110 ortg, 64 drtg!!) in the 27 minutes they have played together so far. When the subs are ready to come in Id much rather just differ to that lineup and I think it would yield much better results.
This is why Advanced stats are not the be all end all for me. The starting lineup was godawful in game 1 and game 2. I think we can all agree there.
The other lineup is really good, but I think the reason Vuc still plays is because Grant is not a great PG for the offense and we need that passing. What Grant can do is defend the pick and roll really well, and you are able to see that in the numbers. If Grant could run an offense and shoot, we would have our PG and be in great shape. But since he can not, Clifford keeps Vuc in there for a while and lets him set up the offense from the post.
They aren't for me either, but thats why combining the eye test with the stats for me makes the Vuc/Bamba lineup even worse. I don't want Bamba to have to play out of position just for the sake of getting more minutes. He just looks downright lost out there when he is at the 4. Since Vuc is the 5 and the one on the block the majority of the time in that lineup it pretty much leaves Bamba camped out on the perimeter as that is the only way any kind of spacing can be had and without a functional handle or the ability to take a quicker 4 off the dribble the only thing he can do is shoot a 3.
Its like in 2016-2017 when for the sake of getting AG more minutes and development time we had him play the 3. It neither benefitted him or the team out on the court by doing so. I just think going to that bench lineup with AG would be the better option for both Bambas development and the team's success.
Def Swami wrote:Knightro wrote:If Vucevic is so good that he has to play 30 MPG, then that leaves Bamba 18 MPG as his backup. Period. Don't like your top lotto pick only playing 18 MPG? Then trade Vuc.
Forcing another 6-7 minutes of Bamba each night out of position isn't beneficial to his development and it sure as heck isn't beneficial to the Magic on the court.
Agree. It's essentially a lose-lose situation.
Knightro wrote:I'm thinking about the future with Bamba here.
He's going to be the starting center for this franchise for the next 5-10 years. There's basically no scenario where he plays PF long-term. He's only going to be bigger as his body fills out.
Vucevic is only going to be blocking his path to a starting spot for so long. Bamba's gotta learn how to defend centers sooner than later. I'd rather him get pounded on by bigger bodies this year and start to get a sense of how hard he needs to work in the weight room and how he can attack stronger players offensively than I would him chase around finesse 4s.
Get him as prepared as possible for taking over the starting C spot next season.
In past seasons, the Nuggets had Jokic “drop” into the paint when defending pick-and-rolls, much like how the Grizzlies used to deploy Gasol in the play. It was a means of covering for Jokic’s athletic deficiencies. But he’s not a prolific shot blocker, and sagging into the paint often forced his teammates to help since perimeter players could zoom by him or score over him. Here are three clips of Jokic defending pick-and-rolls from last season
This season, the Nuggets are taking a more aggressive approach by having Jokic hedge pick-and-rolls. In basketball parlance, hedging means meeting the screener at the point of attack, then moving laterally with the ball handler before returning to the rolling or popping big man. Here’s Jokic on the second defensive possession of the season, hedging and forcing a pass.
BadMofoPimp wrote:Def Swami wrote:Knightro wrote:If Vucevic is so good that he has to play 30 MPG, then that leaves Bamba 18 MPG as his backup. Period. Don't like your top lotto pick only playing 18 MPG? Then trade Vuc.
Forcing another 6-7 minutes of Bamba each night out of position isn't beneficial to his development and it sure as heck isn't beneficial to the Magic on the court.
Agree. It's essentially a lose-lose situation.
After 3 games, people panicking that Bamba is not going to get minutes. Relax and wait til mid season before flipping out on the state of the franchise. He is not in NBA shape to absorb all that yet. Bamba will either be starting or getting 30mpg by mid season. Masters of panic, lololol
Knightro wrote:I'm thinking about the future with Bamba here.
He's going to be the starting center for this franchise for the next 5-10 years. There's basically no scenario where he plays PF long-term. He's only going to be bigger as his body fills out.
Vucevic is only going to be blocking his path to a starting spot for so long. Bamba's gotta learn how to defend centers sooner than later. I'd rather him get pounded on by bigger bodies this year and start to get a sense of how hard he needs to work in the weight room and how he can attack stronger players offensively than I would him chase around finesse 4s.
Get him as prepared as possible for taking over the starting C spot next season.
SOUL wrote:Briscoe is our best player!!!
rcklsscognition wrote:New Ringer article about how Denver is figuring out how to build a defense around Jokic. This is very relevant to Vuc for however many games left he has here, and maybe Bamba too, depending on how he stacks up in the P&R defense. It talks about how the team made Jokic drop back in pick and roll coverage like Clifford is making Vuc and how Denver is changing that.
https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/10/22/18008362/nba-opening-week-takeawaysIn past seasons, the Nuggets had Jokic “drop” into the paint when defending pick-and-rolls, much like how the Grizzlies used to deploy Gasol in the play. It was a means of covering for Jokic’s athletic deficiencies. But he’s not a prolific shot blocker, and sagging into the paint often forced his teammates to help since perimeter players could zoom by him or score over him. Here are three clips of Jokic defending pick-and-rolls from last season
They go on to say Denver now has Jokic hedge, which I too think Vuc should be doing, and it's working. There is a very detailed article on pick and roll defense with a lot of gif examples.This season, the Nuggets are taking a more aggressive approach by having Jokic hedge pick-and-rolls. In basketball parlance, hedging means meeting the screener at the point of attack, then moving laterally with the ball handler before returning to the rolling or popping big man. Here’s Jokic on the second defensive possession of the season, hedging and forcing a pass.
drsd wrote:SOUL wrote:Briscoe is our best player!!!
Briscoe's shooting touch has been fantastic. At some point he must get meaningful minutes.
..
BadMofoPimp wrote:Durant thinks Vooch is one of the Best Centers in the NBA. I will take his word over a couch-GM yelling at a TV.
pepe1991 wrote:About players being on the floor for sake of getting min
i really don't find that useful. It's like having Gordon at SF during Ibaka era or Hezonja logging min by standing in left corner.
Bamba at 4 really does nothing. He stands on 3 point line to get at most 2 looks over 10-12 min.
On defense it's just endless wasteland on perimeter for guy who is seven footer that in future will never really play there.
I still pull hard for Millsap and Murray for Gordon trade .
Would help Gordon reach new level, playing with such an amazing passer like Jokić. His defense should help Jokić ( i guess )
Magic get contract who is up in near future and PG they need.
I think it's possible to get away with average center on defense if perimeter defense is strong enough. Blocks are overrated anyway.
j-ragg wrote:Really? His shot seems like the worst part of his game. Really slow and kind of hitchy. Seems like he has a good handle though. Kind of reminds me of Rafer.
