Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[Klomp]

For those that back Jimmy, and say Towns and Wiggins don’t play hard enough on defense, I ask you to answer this..?

How does Jimmy Butler fail to get in shape for the NBA season, that he needs to get rested on Game 3? Regardless of what team he might be on, how unprofessional is it to not prepare for the start of the season?

I thought it was something to do with an injury he picked up in the Cavs game? He was definitely hobbling around at one point in that game.

Doesn't fit the narratives though.

[shrink]

For those that back Jimmy, and say Towns and Wiggins don’t play hard enough on defense, I ask you to answer this..?

How does Jimmy Butler fail to get in shape for the NBA season, that he needs to get rested on Game 3? Regardless of what team he might be on, how unprofessional is it to not prepare for the start of the season?

Come on. Jimmy is obviously sandbagging it. His repeated trade requests haven't clued you in on this?

He looked gassed right from the start, Game 1 of 82, and it was announced pregame that Jimmy’s minutes would be limited.

[shangrila]

For those that back Jimmy, and say Towns and Wiggins don’t play hard enough on defense, I ask you to answer this..?

How does Jimmy Butler fail to get in shape for the NBA season, that he needs to get rested on Game 3? Regardless of what team he might be on, how unprofessional is it to not prepare for the start of the season?

I thought it was something to do with an injury he picked up in the Cavs game? He was definitely hobbling around at one point in that game.

Doesn't fit the narratives though.

Which narratives? The ones for Butler or against him?

[jcsunsfan]

What do you all think Miami is offering for Butler?

[Crazy-Canuck]

What do you all think Miami is offering for Butler?

it was richardson, waiters, and a protected first.

Thibs was smart for turning that down and asking for more.

[jcsunsfan]

What do you all think Miami is offering for Butler?

it was richardson, waiters, and a protected first.

Thibs was smart for turning that down and asking for more.

Richardson is a good player.
Waiters is negative value.
Do they actually have firsts that they can offer? I wonder what kind of protection.

Were they taking any bad contracts back?

[walk with me]

Miami isn’t trading for butler. Philly is more likely to me now if they’re struggling after 30 games. Miami will finish the season as is.

[shrink]

Miami isn’t trading for butler. Philly is more likely to me now if they’re struggling after 30 games. Miami will finish the season as is.

I don’t buy that. MIA has like six shooting guards, no real SF’s, too may PF’s and Rodney McGruder deserves time too. They have maybe 11-12 guys that are all “okay” or they’ve committed to, either financially or developmentally. Financially, they spent a fortune in 2017 in a “Use it or lost it” move starting with Zach and are simply mediocre.

More than almost any team in the NBA, the Heat really need a consolidation trade. Suddenly, they have a Top 15 player, who wants to be there, regardless of their mediocrity? And Riley is their coach.

Get back to me ten games into the season, when they are 3-7, and let’s see if they aren’t trading for Butler.

[shrink]

What do you all think Miami is offering for Butler?

it was richardson, waiters, and a protected first.

Thibs was smart for turning that down and asking for more.

Richardson is a good player.
Waiters is negative value.
Do they actually have firsts that they can offer? I wonder what kind of protection.

Were they taking any bad contracts back?

Waiters is a pretty bad contract, and the deal fell apart after they saw his medical records. He still hasn’t played because of his ankle, and worse, he’s put on a lot of weight, so he’s far from NBA ready on a 3 year, $36 mil deal. Apparently, Thibs settled for Richardson and a 1st, but after he saw medical records, he wanted another first, probably to get out of Waiters salary.

MIA can offer their 2019 1st, which would likely be in the 20’s with Butler aboard. They owe their 2021 1st elsewhere, so the Stepian Rule severely limits the protections they can put on it, to unprotected, a 2023 1st, future 2nds, or else if the pick isn’t conveyed, they own nothing, Most likely though, that pick should just be valued as a pick on the 20’s.

[walk with me]

Miami isn’t trading for butler. Philly is more likely to me now if they’re struggling after 30 games. Miami will finish the season as is.

I don’t buy that. MIA has like six shooting guards, no real SF’s, too may PF’s and Rodney McGruder deserves time too. They have maybe 11-12 guys that are all “okay” or they’ve committed to, either financially or developmentally. Financially, they spent a fortune in 2017 in a “Use it or lost it” move starting with Zach and are simply mediocre.

More than almost any team in the NBA, the Heat really need a consolidation trade. Suddenly, they have a Top 15 player, who wants to be there, regardless of their mediocrity? And Riley is their coach.

Get back to me ten games into the season, when they are 3-7, and let’s see if they aren’t trading for Butler.

twolves fans can say whatever they want but miami isn’t pressed at all. They’ve made the conference finals in 3 different eras (jordan era, Kobe era, Lebron era). Made the finals in 2 different eras (Kobe era/Lebron era). They’ve landed super free agents in all 3 eras as well (TH & Zo, shaq, bosh & bron). Made the playoffs like 18 of the last 20 years or something like that. 4 finals in the last 8 years. Then made the finals like 3 out of 4 years Lebron has been off the heat. Their future isn’t dependent on jimmy butler or rushing into the 2nd/3rd round of the playoffs. They’re not in any rush to land that caliber of a player for a bunch of reasons.

Regardless of their roster construction and contract situation, they actually like the culture of their team. Majority of their players work hard, but into the system and like each other. There’s no reason to trade players who are apart of that culture to move up like 2 seeds and not guarantee the conference finals or nba finals.

On top of that the only players Minnesota would accept in a trade miami flat out isn’t moving. Jrich WILL NOT be traded. BAM ADEBAYO WILL NOT be traded. So you guys can hypothesize all you want but unless glen/thibs suddenly change their mind and are willling accept a package excluding those two guys it isn’t happening.

The teams you need to focus on are teams with lofty expectations but are struggling (Philly) or teams who have had a similar core for a while but it’s run it’s course (wizards). Miami isn’t either. They can be stuck in 7-10 seed for the next 2 years and miami fans won’t be upset. They understand the current culture and status of the team. Both the fans and the front office will remain patient until the team raises to prominence again. Franchises with less patience are more likely to move assets for jimmy.

[Calinks]

Chris Webber sounded frustrated on NBA TV. Said the wolves were his favorite team last year but he didn't like the pace we played with. Said he doesn't like how Towns is made out like a joke now when 2 years ago everyone thought he was the future of Bigs with Davis. He said if he was a vet on the wolves he doesn't know how he would handle the Butler situation, he might want to fight him because he doesn't like the way he has kind of made the team look like a joke and he worries that it will hurt the development of the younger guys.

[PharmD]

lol at not trading Bam Adebayo to get Jimmy Butler. I'm not really interested in any Miami trade but the idea that Bam is some untouchable star prospect is laughable.

[shrink]

Miami isn’t trading for butler. Philly is more likely to me now if they’re struggling after 30 games. Miami will finish the season as is.

I don’t buy that. MIA has like six shooting guards, no real SF’s, too may PF’s and Rodney McGruder deserves time too. They have maybe 11-12 guys that are all “okay” or they’ve committed to, either financially or developmentally. Financially, they spent a fortune in 2017 in a “Use it or lost it” move starting with Zach and are simply mediocre.

More than almost any team in the NBA, the Heat really need a consolidation trade. Suddenly, they have a Top 15 player, who wants to be there, regardless of their mediocrity? And Riley is their coach.

Get back to me ten games into the season, when they are 3-7, and let’s see if they aren’t trading for Butler.

twolves fans can say whatever they want but miami isn’t pressed at all. They’ve made the conference finals in 3 different eras (jordan era, Kobe era, Lebron era). Made the finals in 2 different eras (Kobe era/Lebron era). They’ve landed super free agents in all 3 eras as well (TH & Zo, shaq, bosh & bron). Made the playoffs like 18 of the last 20 years or something like that. 4 finals in the last 8 years. Then made the finals like 3 out of 4 years Lebron has been off the heat. Their future isn’t dependent on jimmy butler or rushing into the 2nd/3rd round of the playoffs. They’re not in any rush to land that caliber of a player for a bunch of reasons.

Regardless of their roster construction and contract situation, they actually like the culture of their team. Majority of their players work hard, but into the system and like each other. There’s no reason to trade players who are apart of that culture to move up like 2 seeds and not guarantee the conference finals or nba finals.

On top of that the only players Minnesota would accept in a trade miami flat out isn’t moving. Jrich WILL NOT be traded. BAM ADEBAYO WILL NOT be traded. So you guys can hypothesize all you want but unless glen/thibs suddenly change their mind and are willling accept a package excluding those two guys it isn’t happening.

The teams you need to focus on are teams with lofty expectations but are struggling (Philly) or teams who have had a similar core for a while but it’s run it’s course (wizards). Miami isn’t either. They can be stuck in 7-10 seed for the next 2 years and miami fans won’t be upset. They understand the current culture and status of the team. Both the fans and the front office will remain patient until the team raises to prominence again. Franchises with less patience are more likely to move assets for jimmy.

You are letting your emotionalism and Heat fandom get the better of you. MIA already offered JRich. Roster and financial construction always matters. The fact that they have previous success makes them, and Riley, impatient — they expect better than at least two years where they don’t matter whatsoever. Many national writers have said MIA will come back to the table, if they haven’t already. As I have said, I emotionally wish that is not true, but the economics just makes too much sense for the Heat.

I’m not saying to never disagree, and that makes boards interesting, I’m saying that at RealGM, you need to take a step back, especially when you post on someone else’s boards. This is a place to talk rationally, not spit rah rah fandom koolade all over us. You can post a lot better than this.

[Araxen]

I wish we could just trade Wiggins and then give Butler his money. I don't think there is a GM dumb enough to trade for Wiggins due to that terrible, terrible, contract of his.

[El Hespiritu]

Mmmh...

I don't think Riley is particularly prone to engage in trade conversations with Thibs again, whatever MIA record is now or in the future.

Just call it an educated guess.

[shrink]

Mmmh...

I don't think Riley is particularly prone to engage in trade conversations with Thibs again, whatever MIA record is now or in the future.

Just call it an educated guess.

Well this is what Riley said ..

"As to what has been reported in the past 24 hours, I have too much respect for Tom Thibodeau and all that he's accomplished in this league. Our conversations have been nothing but cordial and I have never used that kind of language in negotiations,"

You guys are getting spun around, by intentional leaks. Remember this quote from Jorge Sedano of ESPN.

The medicals were exchanged, which generally in the NBA means this is a done deal.

This is completely untrue. A deal is never done until

1. after medical records are seen and accepted,

2. then the deal has to be accepted by the league,

3. and even then it can get called off if a player fails the physical on his new team.

After those three steps are finished, then it’s a “done deal.” That’s the CBA.

Oh, and who leaked this misinformation, to make Thibs look bad? Jorge Sedano of ESPN - who just happens to have worked for years at .. the Miami Herald.

[walk with me]

I don’t buy that. MIA has like six shooting guards, no real SF’s, too may PF’s and Rodney McGruder deserves time too. They have maybe 11-12 guys that are all “okay” or they’ve committed to, either financially or developmentally. Financially, they spent a fortune in 2017 in a “Use it or lost it” move starting with Zach and are simply mediocre.

More than almost any team in the NBA, the Heat really need a consolidation trade. Suddenly, they have a Top 15 player, who wants to be there, regardless of their mediocrity? And Riley is their coach.

Get back to me ten games into the season, when they are 3-7, and let’s see if they aren’t trading for Butler.

twolves fans can say whatever they want but miami isn’t pressed at all. They’ve made the conference finals in 3 different eras (jordan era, Kobe era, Lebron era). Made the finals in 2 different eras (Kobe era/Lebron era). They’ve landed super free agents in all 3 eras as well (TH & Zo, shaq, bosh & bron). Made the playoffs like 18 of the last 20 years or something like that. 4 finals in the last 8 years. Then made the finals like 3 out of 4 years Lebron has been off the heat. Their future isn’t dependent on jimmy butler or rushing into the 2nd/3rd round of the playoffs. They’re not in any rush to land that caliber of a player for a bunch of reasons.

Regardless of their roster construction and contract situation, they actually like the culture of their team. Majority of their players work hard, but into the system and like each other. There’s no reason to trade players who are apart of that culture to move up like 2 seeds and not guarantee the conference finals or nba finals.

On top of that the only players Minnesota would accept in a trade miami flat out isn’t moving. Jrich WILL NOT be traded. BAM ADEBAYO WILL NOT be traded. So you guys can hypothesize all you want but unless glen/thibs suddenly change their mind and are willling accept a package excluding those two guys it isn’t happening.

The teams you need to focus on are teams with lofty expectations but are struggling (Philly) or teams who have had a similar core for a while but it’s run it’s course (wizards). Miami isn’t either. They can be stuck in 7-10 seed for the next 2 years and miami fans won’t be upset. They understand the current culture and status of the team. Both the fans and the front office will remain patient until the team raises to prominence again. Franchises with less patience are more likely to move assets for jimmy.

You are letting your emotionalism and Heat fandom get the better of you. MIA already offered JRich. Roster and financial construction always matters. The fact that they have previous success makes them, and Riley, impatient — they expect better than at least two years where they don’t matter whatsoever. Many national writers have said MIA will come back to the table, if they haven’t already. As I have said, I emotionally wish that is not true, but the economics just makes too much sense for the Heat.

I’m not saying to never disagree, and that makes boards interesting, I’m saying that at RealGM, you need to take a step back, especially when you post on someone else’s boards. This is a place to talk rationally, not spit rah rah fandom koolade all over us. You can post a lot better than this.

It’s not rah rah at all... I feel like you ignore the status of the team on the opposite end. If the heat were desperate to get JB the trade would have already happened. The heat made the playoffs last year with the same exact roster, they’re not in a status of “needing” change. Jimmy is also older while the rest of the east is younger.

trades in this era more often than not happen when teams NEED CHANGE. The heat don’t need change at all. The fans still like the team and so does he front office based on their reluctance to trade for JB initially.

[shrink]

That is so wrong. BOS has been very active. Did they “need change?”

And even if you’re right, you want us to believe MIA doesn’t need to change from first round playoff exits? They are not a contender in the East. Does that need to change?

Finally, I roll my eyes at anyone who tries to justify anything by saying, “if it were true, it would have happened.” That’s a famously logical fallacy. So if you are mortal, wouldn’t you have died by now? You must be immortal.

Things change over time.

[shrink]

Finally, why would anyone with half a brain believe Riley and the Heat links at this point, when they say they’re done?

1. The Heat gave their “final offer.” MIN said no.

2. MIA approached MIN again.

3. The Heat gave a new “final offer.” MIN said no.

4. MIA approached MIN again.

5. MIA said Jason Richardson is untouchable.

6. The Heat make a third “final offer,” and this one has Richardson in it. MIN says no.


So why this time do you believe, “no they really mean it this time! Ignore the other backtracks - Pat Riley suddenly means it! He said so!”

I don’t blame them for trying to get the best deal, but who could possibly believe they have credibility after all the backtracking they’ve done over the last month?

[walk with me]

When was Boston active? Are you talking about the Kyrie trade? Kyrie forced the Cavs hand and the Cavs accepted a bunch of assets Boston didn’t care about. Miami likes every piece that Minnesota wants lol.