Game 4: Los Angeles Clippers (2-1) @ New Orleans Pelicans (2-0) - 8:00 PM PT

[statsman42]

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Holy shyte, that's awesome. LOL @ Corey for raving about how Luc is creating for himself when Shai is doing 100% of the creating here. But most important are his instincts. Just little things like making himself an easy target when Trez was trapped under the basket and standing his ground against Mirotic right at the beginning.

Kid is special.

[esqtvd]

I’m mocking us going small it made no sense. We don’t have the shooting or athletes to go small we should be using our size advantage. Would of been more content with SGA/Lou/Gallo/Harris/Harrell or Boban. We went completely away from what worked for us to go small for a unit that can’t shoot

That's exactly the lineup that went from down 4 to down 14. I don't think we're watching the same game.

Or the unit with Luc in for Gallo that closed the third it doesn’t matter just not the Beverly and Bradley lineup.

Doc even took Tobias out to bring in Mike Scott for some strange reason to start The 4th.

Rest. Tobias still played 38 minutes. Dude's tongue was hanging out.

Look, I'm not in love with Avery Beverley either, never been from the first. But they done OK tonight, esp since Shai did not have a good game--he was minus-17 at one point. Avery was never worse than minus-6 and Pat almost had a triple-double and finished at +5 [he was in the black all night].

Watching the plus/minus as the game goes on tells you so much more than just seeing the final totals.

So FTR, Shai finished at minus-11 and Gallo finished a team-worst minus-14. Plus-minus isn't everything, but you need to keep an eye on it. Shai WAS having a bad game and Gallo DID start slow. Coach has to decide who to sit and who to stay with. As it turned out, after Gallo and Tobias missed shots that would have closed it to 5, Doc still brought Shai in for Avery with about 2:20 left.

I got no problems with the substitution pattern--in fact Doc's subtly trying different combinations while still trying to win every game WHILE trying to establish a substitution pattern in the first place. [When we had the Big Three or Four, my complaint was he never experimented with combinations.] Even the greatest scientist must find his way though trial and error.


Look, Shai's a rookie, and Lou is Lou, but already not nearly the monster he was last year. If I'm defending Doc's use of Avery--and I am--it's that we need 24 minutes from somewhere, and right now, Avery's it.


Pat may have turned the corner tonight, and 4 games in, it makes sense to invest a little more in Avery, especially since he's really not robbing anyone of minutes. We almost beat a very good team tonight--and held a hot offensive maching to only 43% shooting--and Avery did his part.


Pat Bev has been total crap but just had a near-triple-double tonight against a playoff team. Avery is still mostly crap but maybe he's next o break out. He won't be crap if he starts hitting shots anywhere near his career averages.


And BTW, I agree with you that Pat and Avery can't get their own shot, and that's a huge liability. That's why Lou was out there with them tonight and not Luc. It wasn't "3 guards" so much as choosing Lou over Luc offensively and then choosing Avery over Luc as the other defender flanking Lou beside Pat because Avery can add something to the offensive flow where Luc really can't.


trailing in a game, since you need stops as well as offense:

Lou-Pat-Avery is best vs

Pat-Avery-Luc
Lou-Pat-Luc
Lou-Avery-Luc [LOL, non-starter since Avery is in the ARMDH]

[statsman42]

I'm basically in on giving Avery minutes as long as he's making the likes of Harden and Paul George work for their points, which is really all anyone can ask for. And Pat's energy is infectious in a Sam Cassell way. I'm not in a huge hurry to usher them out the door.

But some of the metrics on Shai's defense suggest that, in what is obviously a tiny sample size, he may be every bit as good a defender as those guys. As such, handing half your backcourt minutes to offensive liabilities like Avery and Pat may be a short-lived need. We could get more out of a lineup that features a total of more like 20-25 minutes from those two guys (combined, not each) and increasing Shai up to a full load of 30-35, with the balance going to Ty Wallace.

[Young Sterling]

Close game, they were close considering the stats. Avery bradley is trash. Please, Jerome or Ty in his place doc...

[esqtvd]

Close game, they were close considering the stats. Avery bradley is trash. Please, Jerome or Ty in his place doc...

Old story. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town. Until they actually put him in.

[esqtvd]

I'm basically in on giving Avery minutes as long as he's making the likes of Harden and Paul George work for their points, which is really all anyone can ask for. And Pat's energy is infectious in a Sam Cassell way. I'm not in a huge hurry to usher them out the door.

But some of the metrics on Shai's defense suggest that, in what is obviously a tiny sample size, he may be every bit as good a defender as those guys. As such, handing half your backcourt minutes to offensive liabilities like Avery and Pat may be a short-lived need. We could get more out of a lineup that features a total of more like 20-25 minutes from those two guys (combined, not each) and increasing Shai up to a full load of 30-35, with the balance going to Ty Wallace.

Shai will start this year, it's obvious. But right now the thinking is he builds up his confidence against 2nd teamers and still sees significant 4th Q minutes.

He doesn't need to face Harden or Paul or Lillard or even McCollum let alone Steph and Klay from the opening tip. Plus they all hit the Rookie Wall in the spring. Shai has only played 1248 college minutes across one college season. The year Chris Paul played all 82 games for us, he played 2857.

We gotta give the kid a break here. It's a long season, with another 78 games to go.

As such, handing half your backcourt minutes to offensive liabilities like Avery and Pat may be a short-lived need. We could get more out of a lineup that features a total of more like 20-25 minutes from those two guys (combined, not each) and increasing Shai up to a full load of 30-35, with the balance going to Ty Wallace.

Ty Wallace is better than Avery or Pat, both acknowledged defensive aces? A lifetime 25% 3-pt shooter? Not feeling you on this one, bro, esp about Pat, who was NBA All-Defensive First Team a couple years ago and put up 8 assists tonight. Avery's still sucking but is still holding up his end on D.

I'm not gonna h8 on Ty but comparing him to established NBA pros like Pat and Avery is...um, impetuous.

[Galloisdaman]

Pelicans are a talented team that is undefeated. Anthony Davis may be the best player in the NBA at this point in time. Clips are competing when many people expected them just to fold.

[GeetIt]

My thoughts
-This team will struggle against elite bigs and will get into foul trouble.

-Bradley and Gortat need to be more aggressive off the catch. Ball seems to be held a second too long and when they do shoot it seems a bit hesistant.

-This was a great game to learn from SGA's standpoint. NO dared him to shoot. Passed up a couple open shots. NO attacked him physically on their drives resulting him not being able to contest and to just reach for a foul. Defensive positioning will be a learning process for SGA.

-Galo seems to be on another level when it comes to scoring. Ball should go to him or Lou late in shot clock. If Bev or Bradley are on the floor they should give the ball up when the clock hits 5.

[Galloisdaman]

My thoughts
-This team will struggle against elite bigs and will get into foul trouble.

-Bradley and Gortat need to be more aggressive off the catch. Ball seems to be held a second too long and when they do shoot it seems a bit hesistant.

-This was a great game to learn from SGA's standpoint. NO dared him to shoot. Passed up a couple open shots. NO attacked him physically on their drives resulting him not being able to contest and to just reach for a foul. Defensive positioning will be a learning process for SGA.

-Galo seems to be on another level when it comes to scoring. Ball should go to him or Lou late in shot clock. If Bev or Bradley are on the floor they should give the ball up when the clock hits 5.

You made some very good points. Welcome to the board.

I wont bash any big going against Anthony Davis because he is that good but I think the team expects more from Gortat.

Bradley is starting to do a few good things. I wonder is it a confidence issue? Is he 100%?

SGA has looked good but he is still a rookie. He will have a learning curve.

Gallo is looking more like the guy the Clips thought they signed last season. Toby is playing well also. Clips getting good production from starting forwards.

[GeetIt]

My thoughts
-This team will struggle against elite bigs and will get into foul trouble.

-Bradley and Gortat need to be more aggressive off the catch. Ball seems to be held a second too long and when they do shoot it seems a bit hesistant.

-This was a great game to learn from SGA's standpoint. NO dared him to shoot. Passed up a couple open shots. NO attacked him physically on their drives resulting him not being able to contest and to just reach for a foul. Defensive positioning will be a learning process for SGA.

-Galo seems to be on another level when it comes to scoring. Ball should go to him or Lou late in shot clock. If Bev or Bradley are on the floor they should give the ball up when the clock hits 5.

You made some very good points. Welcome to the board.

I wont bash any big going against Anthony Davis because he is that good but I think the team expects more from Gortat.

Bradley is starting to do a few good things. I wonder is it a confidence issue? Is he 100%?

SGA has looked good but he is still a rookie. He will have a learning curve.

Gallo is looking more like the guy the Clips thought they signed last season. Toby is playing well also. Clips getting good production from starting forwards.

Thanks brother. Season will be about competing, and Clippers did just that.

[Ranma]

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[statsman42]

Ty Wallace is better than Avery or Pat, both acknowledged defensive aces? A lifetime 25% 3-pt shooter? Not feeling you on this one, bro, esp about Pat, who was NBA All-Defensive First Team a couple years ago and put up 8 assists tonight. Avery's still sucking but is still holding up his end on D.

I'm not gonna h8 on Ty but comparing him to established NBA pros like Pat and Avery is...um, impetuous.

Ty isn't better than they are, but "better" isn't the only factor I'm taking into consideration. Pat and Avery are who they are, and they're really similar. Not sure we need both in the rotation, and I'm quite sure we don't need them out there at the same time that often. It's redundant. It's fine when we need defense down the stretch or we're playing Portland. Heck, start them, that's fine, but rotate other guys in sooner. It's too easy a weakness for opponents to expose.

As far as playing Ty in particular (as opposed to even more SGA or Milos or Lou), he still has a lot of upside he needs to develop, and he's not going to do that by playing one minute every four games. I'm not into tanking, but in terms of player development, I'm fine with having a guy on the court who isn't objectively "better" than some of our other options so he can learn.

[esqtvd]

Ty Wallace is better than Avery or Pat, both acknowledged defensive aces? A lifetime 25% 3-pt shooter? Not feeling you on this one, bro, esp about Pat, who was NBA All-Defensive First Team a couple years ago and put up 8 assists tonight. Avery's still sucking but is still holding up his end on D.

I'm not gonna h8 on Ty but comparing him to established NBA pros like Pat and Avery is...um, impetuous.

Ty isn't better than they are, but "better" isn't the only factor I'm taking into consideration. Pat and Avery are who they are, and they're really similar. Not sure we need both in the rotation, and I'm quite sure we don't need them out there at the same time that often. It's redundant. It's fine when we need defense down the stretch or we're playing Portland. Heck, start them, that's fine, but rotate other guys in sooner. It's too easy a weakness for opponents to expose.

As far as playing Ty in particular (as opposed to even more SGA or Milos or Lou), he still has a lot of upside he needs to develop, and he's not going to do that by playing one minute every four games. I'm not into tanking, but in terms of player development, I'm fine with having a guy on the court who isn't objectively "better" than some of our other options so he can learn.

At the moment, getting Avery squared away [or finding out he's not going to get square] is the priority. He's a proven NBA rotation player if not a starter, is only 28 in November, and is signed for next year. It was only 2 years ago Bradley averaged 16 ppg, shot 46% and 39% from 3-pt, and he made the All-Defensive First Team the year before. That's a niiiiiiiiiiice player, classic 3 and D.

Ty is an afterthought right now, and I think his upside is seriously questionable unless he's developed a three-ball, which he shot at only 25% last year in both the NBA and G-League. Becoming an NBA starter let alone making the All-Defensive team is a huge ask.

The priority right now is to find out if we can be whipped into a playoff team, and there's going to be no PT thrown at anybody who hasn't flat-out earned it. There'll be plenty of PT for Ty and the rest if we become sellers, and I think you'll agree that if we are handing out PT based solely on developing potential, Jerome has the better upside.

[Ranma]

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