The case for Igor's new system

[lilfishi22]

There's a lot of doom and gloom lately and I'm generally not the one with the utmost optimism but I can see a ray of light. Watching the games, our offense is significantly better than what we've been running the last few years.

We're taking better shots. It's a small sample but in the games we've played so far without a competent PG we're taking
60.9 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
21 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
67.4 AST% (2nd behind GSW)
87.9 3PT shots assisted (#8 in the league)
9.9% Fast Break points (#23 in the league)
10th in TS%
10th in eFG%
18.5 TOV% (tied last)

Last season (17-18) we took
57.4 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
29.4 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
55.3% AST% (#27 in the league)
82.3 3PT shots assisted (#18 in the league)
13.8% Fast Break points (#5 in the league)
28th in TS%
30th in eFG%
15.5% TOV% (#27 in the league)

The season before (16-17) we took
52.1 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
36.3 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
49.1% AST% (#29 in the league)
79.0 3PT shots assisted (#25 in the league)
18.0% Fast Break points (#2 in the league)
24th in TS%
26th in eFG%
15.2% TOV% (#26 in the league)

So we're taking more of the 'value' shots (high % under the basket, and 3PT attempts) and we're actually moving the ball well to find better opportunities. The problem we have is two fold; we're turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate and our defense absolutely stinks. Unfortunately only a two-way superstar like KD or Kawhi would help us in both aspects. Defense is tough to fix unless you have near DPOY level individual defender or a bunch of defensive minded players, neither of which we have. What's easier to fix is the turnover problem and that's something a good PG can really help with.

I'm not suggesting one guy is going to turn us into a powerhouse offensively but I think we could compete with the top half of the league offensively if we had a consistent PG presence who can competently and confidently run Igor's offense. Even if we're giving up 120 a game, if our offense is better, we could at least be competitive offensively. I'll have a look at our defense next time and after we've had a few more games to evaluate

TL;DR - if there is a bright spot during this poor start, it's actually our offense and the fact that it *could* be an 'easy' fix.

[bondom34]

Your offense has made improvements. You desperately need a real NBA caliber point guard, but great post.

[Revived]

I think the Igor's system is much, much better what we have seen in recent years from our coaches. His lack of quality players is what's really holding it back.

It's his rotations that most people have issue with but it's only been 6 games and I expect that to improve as the season goes on.

[SlovenianDragon]

There is a reason why our assist ratio is so high and ill post it again....

Our offense looks like this:

Watch on YouTube

I have so much to say about our new "awesome" offense that ima bout to blow a gasket. So ima hold off.

But those numbers you posted mean nothing.

[SlovenianDragon]

IMO our defense isn't the problem. Sure we aren't the best on defense but our offense is an absolute joke. Like its crazy bad. Ive watched every game this season and our offense is disgusting.

[Revived]

There is a reason why our assist ratio is so high and ill post it again....

Our offense looks like this:

Watch on YouTube

LMAO I don't agree with you but you know Kokoskov actually calls his offensive system "blender" right?

“In many ways, it was the same way we played in Utah the last three years,” Kokoskov said of Phoenix’s offense. “We use that term ‘blender.’ Put them in a blender. Drive-and-kick and (an) extra pass … attacking from all different angles. Let ’em figure (it) out so it’s not one guy on a spotlight and everybody else standing and watching.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1677116/suns-training-camp-challenge-flagstaff-kokoskov-offense-reactionary/

I wonder if he actually got the name from this movie

[SlovenianDragon]

well im still awake so ima say some things....

We all want a starting caliber PG right? But in Kokos system a PG doesn't matter.

What do our PGs do atm? They bring the ball up the court slowly and run the offense. They don't create they come up the court and pass the ball off and run through a screen.

A prime Steve Nash would get BUCKETS on this team but not as many assists.

In Kokos system you need shooters. That's why we signed the likes of Ariza and Anderson. Why we play Point Booker.

But it doesn't work.

The turnovers are a result of a forced offensive scheme....Where it seems like some kind of elementary coach that has a rule where everyone has to touch the ball before you can shoot.

TLDR: The offense is forced and isn't natural.

[SlovenianDragon]

Oh and another thing because im just ranting at this point...

Aytons back up is TYSON CHANDLER and we act like hes Ayton.

We run the same offense even though Chandler is nothing like Ayton.

We try to force lobs and passes to the corpse of Chandler because that's how our offense is supposed to run. Through the big man.

Chandler cant do that. Doesn't the coach and players know what Chandler is capable of at this point of his career? Know your personnel!

[bigfoot]

Yes the offense is better. I expect it will continue to improve as the team becomes better at executing it. By better I mean fewer turnovers. Fewer turnovers leads to fewer transition opportunities for the opponent which is killing our defense.

In the long run this will be a better system. We will be much less reliant on a ball dominate player which typically result in either strictly ISO or pick-n-roll situations. The problem with that system being injury to the main player (e.g., Harden or Paul) kills the entire system. We are still scoring efficiently without Booker.

I expect as we reduce our turnover numbers we will see our defensive numbers improve as well as our fast break points go up. It is hard to run the fast break when you are constantly taking the ball out of the basket.

[sunskerr]

Yeah I don’t have a problem with the system. It’s just that most of the guys on our team kinda suck...

And he also needs to give minutes to players that are earning them like warren And bridges

[sunstrooper]

So far I am unable to see any system in Suns' offense. In a few words it is "the best 3-point shooter plays pg and has to drive to the rim or take mid-range 2 (both heavily contested) while at least 3 guys stand absolutely still on the 3p line... no screens for catch-and-shoot, no backdoor cuts, no movement at all. Just like in the past 10 years or so. No idea what blender is Igor talking about, more likely pinball, where Booker is bouncing between 3-4 defenders and gets stripped or misses. I know he is making much more points than supposed to, but as a team you can't get a win this way.

[Book1Nation]

The offense is better, they just need capable passers and creators on this team. Someone to break the defense down and Booker is that guy but he can't do it 100% of the time.

Need to start taking care of the ball too though. I'd rather get off a terrible shot than no shot at all.

The difference between Okobo's and Jackson's turnovers for example, I don't mind Okobo's because most of the time he's trying to make the right play, he's making the right read, but he's still getting used to the speed of the game. Jackson tries dumbass passes and between the leg dribbles where he always gets stripped, those drive me insane.

[No Koko]

Are you guys serious?

This offense is a joke. This is literally a elementary/middle school weave offense. But some of the unathetic people here that have never played basketball apparently see that and think it is some kind of genius basketball wizardry. No it is **** not.

You know why we turn the ball over so much? Because each and every one of our passes in this stupid offense are extremely predictable. This offense is made for role players to all play equal and chuck up outside shots all the time. It is actually a terrible fit for Booker unless he is just looking to catch and shoot. A lot of his buckets this year were him saying **** this stupid middle school offense I'm setting up a pick and roll.

And of course, this offense puts ZERO emphasis on getting Ayton the ball. The reason is because this head coach is EUROPEAN. Europeans hate athletic young big men, they much prefer unathletic white role players. They hate young players in general and will play a 30 year old over a 23 year old for no reason other than age. They hate players like Booker and Warren being able to use their amazing offensive talent to control an offense. They prefer to see a super controlled system that minimizes peoples talents and makes even the best players look like role players. You guys can get mad about me saying all this stuff but it is 100% true so I don't give a ****.

Stop the nonstop trolling.

[darealjuice]

So far I am unable to see any system in Suns' offense. In a few words it is "the best 3-point shooter plays pg and has to drive to the rim or take mid-range 2 (both heavily contested) while at least 3 guys stand absolutely still on the 3p line... no screens for catch-and-shoot, no backdoor cuts, no movement at all. Just like in the past 10 years or so. No idea what blender is Igor talking about, more likely pinball, where Booker is bouncing between 3-4 defenders and gets stripped or misses. I know he is making much more points than supposed to, but as a team you can't get a win this way.

If you can’t even see that we’re running an offensive system then you’re just staring at the ball every possession.

[Book1Nation]

Are you guys serious?

This offense is a joke. This is literally a elementary/middle school weave offense. But some of the unathetic people here that have never played basketball apparently see that and think it is some kind of genius basketball wizardry. No it is **** not.

You know why we turn the ball over so much? Because each and every one of our passes in this stupid offense are extremely predictable. This offense is made for role players to all play equal and chuck out outside shots all the time. It is actually a terrible fit for Booker unless he is just looking to catch and shoot. A lot of his buckets this year were him saying **** this stupid middle school offense I'm setting up a pick and roll.

And of course, this offense puts ZERO emphasis on getting Ayton the ball. The reason is because this head coach is EUROPEAN. Europeans hate athletic young big men, they much prefer unathletic white role players. They hate young players in general and will play a 30 year old over a 23 year old for no reason other than age. They hate players like Booker and Warren being able to use their amazing offensive talent to control an offense. They prefer to see a super controlled system that minimizes peoples talents and makes even the best players look like role players. You guys can get mad about me saying all this stuff but it is 100% true so I don't give a ****.

lol

[bwgood77]

There's a lot of doom and gloom lately and I'm generally not the one with the utmost optimism but I can see a ray of light. Watching the games, our offense is significantly better than what we've been running the last few years.

We're taking better shots. It's a small sample but in the games we've played so far without a competent PG we're taking
60.9 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
21 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
67.4 AST% (2nd behind GSW)
87.9 3PT shots assisted (#8 in the league)
9.9% Fast Break points (#23 in the league)
10th in TS%
10th in eFG%
18.5 TOV% (tied last)

Last season (17-18) we took
57.4 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
29.4 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
55.3% AST% (#27 in the league)
82.3 3PT shots assisted (#18 in the league)
13.8% Fast Break points (#5 in the league)
28th in TS%
30th in eFG%
15.5% TOV% (#27 in the league)

The season before (16-17) we took
52.1 FGA from the 3 and the restricted area
36.3 FGA from the paint (outside the RA) and midrange.
49.1% AST% (#29 in the league)
79.0 3PT shots assisted (#25 in the league)
18.0% Fast Break points (#2 in the league)
24th in TS%
26th in eFG%
15.2% TOV% (#26 in the league)

So we're taking more of the 'value' shots (high % under the basket, and 3PT attempts) and we're actually moving the ball well to find better opportunities. The problem we have is two fold; we're turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate and our defense absolutely stinks. Unfortunately only a two-way superstar like KD or Kawhi would help us in both aspects. Defense is tough to fix unless you have near DPOY level individual defender or a bunch of defensive minded players, neither of which we have. What's easier to fix is the turnover problem and that's something a good PG can really help with.

I'm not suggesting one guy is going to turn us into a powerhouse offensively but I think we could compete with the top half of the league offensively if we had a consistent PG presence who can competently and confidently run Igor's offense. Even if we're giving up 120 a game, if our offense is better, we could at least be competitive offensively. I'll have a look at our defense next time and after we've had a few more games to evaluate

TL;DR - if there is a bright spot during this poor start, it's actually our offense and the fact that it *could* be an 'easy' fix.

Great post. It's pretty amazing we are 10th in TS% with as bad of starts as Ariza and Anderson have gotten shooting, and with Booker out for two games. That assist % right behind GS is impressive. And taking smarter shots (mostly) is great to see too.

It's just those turnovers that are killing us. I imagine as they get more used to the offense and the young guys get more experienced with the pace and all the new players playing together get more used to each other, this will improve.

[m1chal]

The reason is because this head coach is EUROPEAN. Europeans hate athletic young big men, they much prefer unathletic white role players. They hate young players in general and will play a 30 year old over a 23 year old for no reason other than age. They hate players like Booker and Warren being able to use their amazing offensive talent to control an offense. They prefer to see a super controlled system that minimizes peoples talents and makes even the best players look like role players. You guys can get mad about me saying all this stuff but it is 100% true so I don't give a ****.

As a white European should I feel offended? Help me guys for I'm not sure

[No Koko]

The reason is because this head coach is EUROPEAN. Europeans hate athletic young big men, they much prefer unathletic white role players. They hate young players in general and will play a 30 year old over a 23 year old for no reason other than age. They hate players like Booker and Warren being able to use their amazing offensive talent to control an offense. They prefer to see a super controlled system that minimizes peoples talents and makes even the best players look like role players. You guys can get mad about me saying all this stuff but it is 100% true so I don't give a ****.

As a white European should I feel offended? Help me guys for I'm not sure

Actually no because it isn't really a race thing but more of a culture thing. The same exact thing exists at the college level in the United States from coaches of all races. Many coaches in NCAA dominate the game and they don't adapt their systems to their players. Even Michael Jordan was held back significantly when he played at UNC. The NBA is usually a lot better at allowing talent to flourish.

I do think Igor's system can be good for getting 3's for Booker as well as Bridges and Warren if they play. My issue is that it doesn't give Booker enough of an opportunity to do his thing without going 1 on 5 and of course not enough touches for Ayton.

[Scutt]

I'm not suggesting one guy is going to turn us into a powerhouse offensively but I think we could compete with the top half of the league offensively if we had a consistent PG presence who can competently and confidently run Igor's offense. Even if we're giving up 120 a game, if our offense is better, we could at least be competitive offensively. I'll have a look at our defense next time and after we've had a few more games to evaluate

TL;DR - if there is a bright spot during this poor start, it's actually our offense and the fact that it *could* be an 'easy' fix.

This seems contradictory to me. The Suns are not turning the ball over at the point guard spot, its the wings turning it over with all the weaves and stuff, which appears to be a staple of Igors offense. All the pg does in this system is bring the ball up. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a better pg on this team, but that wouldn't cut down on the turn overs that much.

The turn overs are being caused by Koko's system that demands so much ball movement, but I am not too worried about it. It takes time for players to gel and build chemistry, not to mention all the young guys learning a new offense that requires team play. My only gripe with Koko's system is I want Ayton to get more touches, well I really want them to run the offense through him. But again, we are only 6 games in, so I cant complain too much.
Koko's main issue is his rotations and relying on vets with nothing left in the tank, causing the team to tank, and I have a sneaking suspicion that is because of Sarver.

[Saberestar]

FILM ROOM: INSIDE THE MIND OF IGOR KOKOSKOV

So far through Summer League, pre-season, and the start of the season, Kokoskov has stuck to many of the same sets and actions that worked for him with Slovenia.

In this piece I’ll analyze some of those sets and actions.

http://bball-index.com/mind-of-igor/