2018 regular season thread

[Sedale Threatt]

saints are good enough on their own, can't just give them points and opportunities

Too bad. Wasting a pretty solid effort against Brees, especially with all the injuries.

[hermes]

saints are good enough on their own, can't just give them points and opportunities

Too bad. Wasting a pretty solid effort against Brees, especially with all the injuries.

saints aren't even going down field to take advantage of our injuries

[hermes]

congrats to thielen on the 100 yards

[hermes]

alright got a score but we were very leisurely about it, probably need to onside right here

[Sedale Threatt]

4-3-1 feels like a pretty accurate gauge of where we are right now.

[Jedzz]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

[Jedzz]

Follow the white rabbit as I digest this mess.

Losing Shurmur might have been too much. No coaches left know offense, game timings, challenges, anything. Shades of the preShurmur years are showing again.

This reminds me of Vikings football from years back:
2-25-MIN 25 (5:56) C.Ham left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard
3-24-MIN 26 (5:16) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to R.Thomas to MIN 41 for 15 yards

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

Has anyone told Defilippo those are depth guys?

The team is leading by a paltry 3 points at that moment (13-10) and the team just sets up a punt instead of attempting to get a first down. You can kick a punt from the 25. Might as well have punted on first down. They didn't want to score this drive anyway. A penalty occurs and they just give up!

Oh nice! You say we are still leading by 3 points still after Smith intercepts Drew Brees on their next drive? Sounds like a great time to get aggressive again and roll with your new momentum. Nope. Boone Boone short short Treadwell Treadwell drop drop, NO Penalty saves us, then a stupid play call for a 4 yard dump to the dangerous flats when we are in inside their 20, fumble/big return. Stand tall defense. Nope. NO easy TD.

Then it's 1st and 10 at the Minnesota 25 with 30 seconds to go in the half. New Orleans now leading by only 4 points.
!!!urgency!!! Let's Toss one deep down the sidelines and get another play. Just need at least field goal distance. Try! Nope. Let's run Boone left center instead and go back to the locker room and lick wounds.

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

After Thielen's fumble the team has decided Thielen will pay a price. He ends up just a blocker for the next 1.5 quarters and doesn't get a pass again until 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.  turnover bad.  punish child

Instead Treadwell, Robinson, Diggs, Thomas, Boone, Murray continue to get passes. The Vikings don't score during this time at all.

4th and 1 yard to go (Min45). Forget about Murray gashing them all day. Forget the perfection catching of Thielen Diggs. Let's throw to Treadwell on this very important down in our territory. Drops it. No one saw that coming.

Get the ball back down THREE scores with only 9 minutes left in the game.
Short left
Short right
Run left
Short Middle
Short right
Short right miss
Sack
Short middle
Short right
deep right miss (finally trying) Penalty pass interference. (Now you understand Packer ball I hope.)
Short middle miss
Short left
sneak middle - Cousins - (not really)
Short middle Thielen TD.

That drive took 5:10 of time when they were down three scores. They are taking what the Saints are freely giving them, short field instead of attacking to catch up faster. Why should we watch this?

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

Defense allows them two more first downs (4.5 minutes more wasted)

Vikings are behind 30-20. 1:09 left.

Short middle to a runningback! What?
Deep middle Kyle R
Short right to runningback! What?
Spike to stop clock at 7 seconds. Need 46 yards and TEN POINTS. Reality sinks in.
Short right to Diggs for 8 yards...because fantasy yards!, stats! Diggs fumbles final play of game. Referees don't even bother wrapping up game. Broadcast cuts away immediately. No one wants to spend one more minute of the day on this team.

Someone tell me why these coaches should still have jobs in the NFL. It's obviously not about trying to win football games. This is the coaches giving up before the second half started. Shades of NFC championship game all over again. One turnover starts the tailspin. Coaches tighten up hard so Players tighten up. Tailspin. Eject! Eject! Where's my blanket?

Sorry folks. I can't paint a better picture. This all really happened. Everyone will blame turnovers. I blame the coaches nearly 90%. They did not try to get back in this game. They went through the motions to finish the game period.

[Worm Guts]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

I think you're being a little reactionary here.

[Worm Guts]

After Thielen's fumble the team has decided Thielen will pay a price. He ends up just a blocker for the next 1.5 quarters and doesn't get a pass again until 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter

I don't think that was any kind of conscious choice at all.

[Jedzz]

After Thielen's fumble the team has decided Thielen will pay a price. He ends up just a blocker for the next 1.5 quarters and doesn't get a pass again until 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter

I don't think that was any kind of conscious choice at all.

Oh really? Not conscious? I completely disagree on this.

I think it is a conscious choice. It's all conscious choices. It wasn't the only foul choice. Cousins doesn't play like Brett Favre. He's out there following orders.

Continuing to play Treadwell when Robinson has shown a more dangerous threat that easily beats 1 on 1 coverage and makes big catches. They even trust him in the endzone but won't give him Treadwell's plays. Conscious decisions.

Choosing to hand the ball off to four different RBs when Murray is gashing Saints with a 4.3 average and he only gets 13 carries. Go ahead and platoon with two backs if you want. But FOUR? What's the next step, a literal platoon number? Conscious choices.

Cousins listens to the play call and it has been evident most of the season he is throwing to the first target on the list and or the receivers he trusts. The Oline has demanded it often but even with time he does. Rarely will his head turn direction, look off a defender or double pump. I've maybe seen two Look offs all season with all these throws. This is why his passes get batted down so often. Defenders see him locked on and they can anticipate it. Cousins is showing no desire to get through the route tree behind this Oline.

Who Cousins trusts to catch it is evident. Thielen is leading the league in catches. Thielen and Diggs are #1 & #5 respectively in the league per targets. Nothing like this has happened to Vikings receivers in well over ten straight years.

Judging by season usage and how this team needed to play catch up Sunday, do you honestly think they unconsciously just started throwing all those short targets to Murray (6), Kyle (7), Treadwell (5), Robinson (2), Thompson (1) during the 3rd and 4th quarter and just ignored the guy they have starred from the slot so often if their plans were to throw short the whole second half?

Thielen 7 catches on 7 targets
Diggs 10 catches on 11 targets and all short field in the second half. At least they kept him involved.

I don't think you or anyone should forgive them for this. Enough is enough. They did not need to lose to Drew Brees this day. They did not need to tie the Packers or lose to the Bills. The coaches are causing this. It's no longer a mystery.

Based mostly on the first half and final 6 minutes, the Vikings won total game points of contention such as:
Number of first downs (27-17)
3rd down conversions
4th down conversions
time of possession
offensive yards by a huge margin
passing yards by a huge margin and more

Saints barely won on rushing yards. A couple of turnovers doesn't cause a loss in this situation. Brees was only 18 for 120 yards 1 TD and 1 INT. The defense did enough to return one of those turnovers right away in the first half. These coaches pissed Smith's gift away with a conscious choice to set up a punt. They could have completely regained the lead and momentum or at least tried to. They chose not to even try for a first down on the next two straight possessions. Then the third quarter might as well have been a practice squad tryout.

I don't believe I'm over reacting. These coaches are all horrible offensive NFL men and the team of players deserve better. They don't know when to be aggressive or when to play safe, when to call timeouts, or throw red flags. They don't know Clock management or how to call plays that conserve time. They don't understand when urgency is demanded. They don't believe in their players. They most certainly are not putting them in their best positions to succeed.

You need to be alarmed by these coach's actions. This is the very team we saw lay down for the Eagles in the NFCC. If nothing else, bring in an outside consultant at least and listen to him immediately. This should not continue as is. If Zimmer is causing this his seat should be red steaming hot right now.

[hermes]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

jedzz, did defillipo egg your house or something? this feels personal

[Jedzz]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

I think you're being a little reactionary here.

They lost to the Bills in a blowout.

They vanished in the Packer game for 3 quarters and one overtime to end in a tie.

They've now lost to the Saints when they won almost every point of contention with how they played the first half. One single turnover caused them to play like losers in almost a spitting image repeat of what we saw against Eagles in the playoffs. Only this time more clearly by choice.

Why would you think I'm being reactionary in suggesting they can lose to the Lions and Bears when playing like this? Both of those teams are playing hard nose football lately.

[Jedzz]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

jedzz, did defillipo egg your house or something? this feels personal

Did you look at his playcalling while behind by 3 scores Sunday?

[hermes]

Follow the white rabbit as I digest this mess.

Losing Shurmur might have been too much. No coaches left know offense, game timings, challenges, anything. Shades of the preShurmur years are showing again.

This reminds me of Vikings football from years back:
2-25-MIN 25 (5:56) C.Ham left guard to MIN 26 for 1 yard
3-24-MIN 26 (5:16) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to R.Thomas to MIN 41 for 15 yards

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

Has anyone told Defilippo those are depth guys?

The team is leading by a paltry 3 points at that moment (13-10) and the team just sets up a punt instead of attempting to get a first down. You can kick a punt from the 25. Might as well have punted on first down. They didn't want to score this drive anyway. A penalty occurs and they just give up!

this does happen quite a bit (with all teams), teams will get backed up due to a loss or penalties and they'll just try and get some yards back to play field position. and what are they supposed to do anyway? going for something down field has some risk even more with a shaky o-line. compound that with a good saints pass rush and knowing they can pin their ears back. as the announcers like to say, there aren't a lot of plays in the playbook for 3rd and 25.

Then it's 1st and 10 at the Minnesota 25 with 30 seconds to go in the half. New Orleans now leading by only 4 points.
!!!urgency!!! Let's Toss one deep down the sidelines and get another play. Just need at least field goal distance. Try! Nope. Let's run Boone left center instead and go back to the locker room and lick wounds.

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

its not that unreasonable, they are only at their 25. i might be used to it since i see that all the time with the iowa hawkeyes (kirk ferentz is conservative by nature). zimmer is also a conservative, lean on his defense/offense score just enough points and don't screw it up. how that sequence played out is dictated by zim's philosophy and has happened prior to this year. remember defilippo came from the eagles who are a very aggressive team - i bet left to his own devices defilippo would be more aggressive.

After Thielen's fumble the team has decided Thielen will pay a price. He ends up just a blocker for the next 1.5 quarters and doesn't get a pass again until 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.  turnover bad.  punish child

Instead Treadwell, Robinson, Diggs, Thomas, Boone, Murray continue to get passes. The Vikings don't score during this time at all.

this is the case with kickers as zimmer has no patience for them, but it makes no sense to punish your best offensive weapon. besides if punishing bad performances was something this team did then treadwell would for sure not be seeing the field

Get the ball back down THREE scores with only 9 minutes left in the game.
Short left
Short right
Run left
Short Middle
Short right
Short right miss
Sack
Short middle
Short right
deep right miss (finally trying) Penalty pass interference. (Now you understand Packer ball I hope.)
Short middle miss
Short left
sneak middle - Cousins - (not really)
Short middle Thielen TD.

That drive took 5:10 of time when they were down three scores. They are taking what the Saints are freely giving them, short field instead of attacking to catch up faster. Why should we watch this?

Code: Select all

This is Vikings football from years back.

Defense allows them two more first downs (4.5 minutes more wasted)

Vikings are behind 30-20. 1:09 left.

Short middle to a runningback! What?
Deep middle Kyle R
Short right to runningback! What?
Spike to stop clock at 7 seconds. Need 46 yards and TEN POINTS. Reality sinks in.
Short right to Diggs for 8 yards...because fantasy yards!, stats! Diggs fumbles final play of game. Referees don't even bother wrapping up game. Broadcast cuts away immediately. No one wants to spend one more minute of the day on this team.

this isn't really a new problem with this oc either, the vikings have exhibited a lack of urgency during comebacks all during the zimmer era. this team is much better playing from ahead where zimmer can really work his magic on defense and the offense can just grind the game out (this also relates to the issue of not putting teams away and them coming back in games they don't have any business to)

Someone tell me why these coaches should still have jobs in the NFL. It's obviously not about trying to win football games. This is the coaches giving up before the second half started. Shades of NFC championship game all over again. One turnover starts the tailspin. Coaches tighten up hard so Players tighten up. Tailspin. Eject! Eject! Where's my blanket?

Sorry folks. I can't paint a better picture. This all really happened. Everyone will blame turnovers. I blame the coaches nearly 90%. They did not try to get back in this game. They went through the motions to finish the game period.

so do you want to fire zimmer now? because one of the coordinators will take over in the interim for the rest of the year

[hermes]

After Thielen's fumble the team has decided Thielen will pay a price. He ends up just a blocker for the next 1.5 quarters and doesn't get a pass again until 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter

I don't think that was any kind of conscious choice at all.

Oh really? Not conscious? I completely disagree on this.

I think it is a conscious choice. It's all conscious choices. It wasn't the only foul choice. Cousins doesn't play like Brett Favre. He's out there following orders.

Continuing to play Treadwell when Robinson has shown a more dangerous threat that easily beats 1 on 1 coverage and makes big catches. They even trust him in the endzone but won't give him Treadwell's plays. Conscious decisions.

Choosing to hand the ball off to four different RBs when Murray is gashing Saints with a 4.3 average and he only gets 13 carries. Go ahead and platoon with two backs if you want. But FOUR? What's the next step, a literal platoon number? Conscious choices.

murray does need to get more carries, there's a guy on the radio broadcast that helps answers the fanline after the game who keeps saying that murray is the type of back who gets better as the game wears on and he gets more carries. he'll get you a 100 yards every game if you get him 20 carries. some of it is change of pace to rest murray probably and maybe just different looks to confuse the defense - they like you probably don't expect the 4th string running back to get a lot of carries so there might be an opening

bad news is our o-line stinks and is banged up. and there has been a lot of situations where the we can't really run the ball (see your complaint about time killing drives while trying to rally)

Who Cousins trusts to catch it is evident. Thielen is leading the league in catches. Thielen and Diggs are #1 & #5 respectively in the league per targets. Nothing like this has happened to Vikings receivers in well over ten straight years.

i can't tell if you think this is a good or bad thing. it hasn't happened because we've had mostly bad qb play forever, and rarely have more than one good receiver. its really amazing that we've basically stumbled into 2 fantastic receivers and now we finally have a good qb to get them the ball

Judging by season usage and how this team needed to play catch up Sunday, do you honestly think they unconsciously just started throwing all those short targets to Murray (6), Kyle (7), Treadwell (5), Robinson (2), Thompson (1) during the 3rd and 4th quarter and just ignored the guy they have starred from the slot so often if their plans were to throw short the whole second half?

other teams also know that thielen and diggs are good and will do their best to take them away. sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you. i mean that is what the saints did all game to great effect. michael thomas their great receiver only had 6 targets, i doubt saints fans are upset he wasn't getting the ball more

Based mostly on the first half and final 6 minutes, the Vikings won total game points of contention such as:
Number of first downs (27-17)
3rd down conversions
4th down conversions
time of possession
offensive yards by a huge margin
passing yards by a huge margin and more

Saints barely won on rushing yards. A couple of turnovers doesn't cause a loss in this situation. Brees was only 18 for 120 yards 1 TD and 1 INT. The defense did enough to return one of those turnovers right away in the first half. These coaches pissed Smith's gift away with a conscious choice to set up a punt. They could have completely regained the lead and momentum or at least tried to. They chose not to even try for a first down on the next two straight possessions. Then the third quarter might as well have been a practice squad tryout.

i don't know why you are just dismissing the turnovers, especially after laying out all the stats that favor the vikes and that the saints didn't have it on offense (although at times i think they took their foot off the gas and tried to grind the game out)

to me, all the stats you just mentioned tell me that the turnovers were huge and played a monumental role in the outcome of the game

I don't believe I'm over reacting. These coaches are all horrible offensive NFL men and the team of players deserve better. They don't know when to be aggressive or when to play safe, when to call timeouts, or throw red flags. They don't know Clock management or how to call plays that conserve time. They don't understand when urgency is demanded. They don't believe in their players. They most certainly are not putting them in their best positions to succeed.

You need to be alarmed by these coach's actions. This is the very team we saw lay down for the Eagles in the NFCC. If nothing else, bring in an outside consultant at least and listen to him immediately. This should not continue as is. If Zimmer is causing this his seat should be red steaming hot right now.

this game wasn't close to the nfc conference game, that game the defense completely no-showed and the team was just shell-shocked by what was happening. the defense played well this game, offense played well for a good chunk of the game too (unlike the title game)

zimmer has had issues i think with clock management, challenges, and stuff since he started. i think he's getting better but its still a work of progress. but i imagine its really tough. you can look across the league and a lot of coaches are criticized for clock management, challenges, play calls, decisions, etc.

no way zimmer's seat is hot, might be getting a little warm but i doubt even that. the wilfs know the issues with the o-line and the injuries. plus its not like we're 1-6, we're still above .500 and everything right in front of us with a bunch of division games coming up. if we turn things around we can take control of the division

[hermes]

4-3-1 and they will be lucky to beat Detroit or Chicago when they finally get around to playing them. If they lose the first game to Detroit they might want to think about getting a new OC during the bye week and then just let Cousins call plays for the rest of the season.

I think you're being a little reactionary here.

They lost to the Bills in a blowout.

They vanished in the Packer game for 3 quarters and one overtime to end in a tie.

They've now lost to the Saints when they won almost every point of contention with how they played the first half. One single turnover caused them to play like losers in almost a spitting image repeat of what we saw against Eagles in the playoffs. Only this time more clearly by choice.

Why would you think I'm being reactionary in suggesting they can lose to the Lions and Bears when playing like this? Both of those teams are playing hard nose football lately.

sure they can lose to the lions and bears but they could also play better and beat those teams

lots of wild and crazy outcomes can happen in the nfl (like the bills game!)

the coaches aren't above criticism, they made some mistakes. so did the players (so its not all on the coaches). but they also made some good plays and decisions. they've done it before and can do it again

some bad things have happened but its not bad enough to run zimmer out on a rail yet, or pack it in and look toward the draft. there is a lot of season left and we're still in the thick of a division race

[Jedzz]

this does happen quite a bit (with all teams), teams will get backed up due to a loss or penalties and they'll just try and get some yards back to play field position. and what are they supposed to do anyway? going for something down field has some risk even more with a shaky o-line. compound that with a good saints pass rush and knowing they can pin their ears back. as the announcers like to say, there aren't a lot of plays in the playbook for 3rd and 25.

its not that unreasonable, they are only at their 25. i might be used to it since i see that all the time with the iowa hawkeyes (kirk ferentz is conservative by nature). zimmer is also a conservative, lean on his defense/offense score just enough points and don't screw it up. how that sequence played out is dictated by zim's philosophy and has happened prior to this year. remember defilippo came from the eagles who are a very aggressive team - i bet left to his own devices defilippo would be more aggressive.

this is the case with kickers as zimmer has no patience for them, but it makes no sense to punish your best offensive weapon. besides if punishing bad performances was something this team did then treadwell would for sure not be seeing the field

this isn't really a new problem with this oc either, the vikings have exhibited a lack of urgency during comebacks all during the zimmer era. this team is much better playing from ahead where zimmer can really work his magic on defense and the offense can just grind the game out (this also relates to the issue of not putting teams away and them coming back in games they don't have any business to)

so do you want to fire zimmer now? because one of the coordinators will take over in the interim for the rest of the year

I'm really sorry to read most of these responses from you by point. Almost all of them I will disagree with strongly and can't really figure out why you could think this way about NFL football. I feel bad having to even say that. I felt worse about reading them. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

If no one here thinks there is a massive problem with basic clock management that NFL coaches should be ready for. Or if no one here can see that they doghoused their Qb's favorite target for one fumble on an otherwise perfect catch day. Or are not willing to see what can happen to a QB when you take his favorite target away, and otherwise call 30 short pass plays in the middle of field when down by multiple scores. Or when playing from behind, will plan to punt already after first down for any reason. Most especially after your defense earns an interception to give you another chance. If none of these are issues for many of you, then I'm in the wrong place. It must not have bothered you much seeing them lay down in the NFCC game last playoffs. Maybe it explains why there is only one thread of discussions about Vikings here now. It might be a specific type of fan to fit here.

I don't think I'll find much in the way of healthy conversation for me on this team here and don't want to waste your time further. I'm not happy with the direction of these coaches any longer and I'm bound to say it often at this point. Please excuse me.

[Sedale Threatt]

this does happen quite a bit (with all teams), teams will get backed up due to a loss or penalties and they'll just try and get some yards back to play field position. and what are they supposed to do anyway? going for something down field has some risk even more with a shaky o-line. compound that with a good saints pass rush and knowing they can pin their ears back. as the announcers like to say, there aren't a lot of plays in the playbook for 3rd and 25.

its not that unreasonable, they are only at their 25. i might be used to it since i see that all the time with the iowa hawkeyes (kirk ferentz is conservative by nature). zimmer is also a conservative, lean on his defense/offense score just enough points and don't screw it up. how that sequence played out is dictated by zim's philosophy and has happened prior to this year. remember defilippo came from the eagles who are a very aggressive team - i bet left to his own devices defilippo would be more aggressive.

this is the case with kickers as zimmer has no patience for them, but it makes no sense to punish your best offensive weapon. besides if punishing bad performances was something this team did then treadwell would for sure not be seeing the field

this isn't really a new problem with this oc either, the vikings have exhibited a lack of urgency during comebacks all during the zimmer era. this team is much better playing from ahead where zimmer can really work his magic on defense and the offense can just grind the game out (this also relates to the issue of not putting teams away and them coming back in games they don't have any business to)

so do you want to fire zimmer now? because one of the coordinators will take over in the interim for the rest of the year

I'm really sorry to read most of these responses from you by point. Almost all of them I will disagree with strongly and can't really figure out why you could think this way about NFL football. I feel bad having to even say that. I felt worse about reading them. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

If no one here thinks there is a massive problem with basic clock management that NFL coaches should be ready for. Or if no one here can see that they doghoused their Qb's favorite target for one fumble on an otherwise perfect catch day. Or are not willing to see what can happen to a QB when you take his favorite target away, and otherwise call 30 short pass plays in the middle of field when down by multiple scores. Or when playing from behind, will plan to punt already after first down for any reason. Most especially after your defense earns an interception to give you another chance. If none of these are issues for many of you, then I'm in the wrong place. It must not have bothered you much seeing them lay down in the NFCC game last playoffs. Maybe it explains why there is only one thread of discussions about Vikings here now. It might be a specific type of fan to fit here.

I don't think I'll find much in the way of healthy conversation for me on this team here and don't want to waste your time further. I'm not happy with the direction of these coaches any longer and I'm bound to say it often at this point. Please excuse me.

Railing like a deranged talk-radio show caller = "healthy conversation."

Getting pissy and throwing a fit anytime somebody disagrees with you = "healthy conversation."

Lol ... screw off with this nonsense.

[hermes]

this does happen quite a bit (with all teams), teams will get backed up due to a loss or penalties and they'll just try and get some yards back to play field position. and what are they supposed to do anyway? going for something down field has some risk even more with a shaky o-line. compound that with a good saints pass rush and knowing they can pin their ears back. as the announcers like to say, there aren't a lot of plays in the playbook for 3rd and 25.

its not that unreasonable, they are only at their 25. i might be used to it since i see that all the time with the iowa hawkeyes (kirk ferentz is conservative by nature). zimmer is also a conservative, lean on his defense/offense score just enough points and don't screw it up. how that sequence played out is dictated by zim's philosophy and has happened prior to this year. remember defilippo came from the eagles who are a very aggressive team - i bet left to his own devices defilippo would be more aggressive.

this is the case with kickers as zimmer has no patience for them, but it makes no sense to punish your best offensive weapon. besides if punishing bad performances was something this team did then treadwell would for sure not be seeing the field

this isn't really a new problem with this oc either, the vikings have exhibited a lack of urgency during comebacks all during the zimmer era. this team is much better playing from ahead where zimmer can really work his magic on defense and the offense can just grind the game out (this also relates to the issue of not putting teams away and them coming back in games they don't have any business to)

so do you want to fire zimmer now? because one of the coordinators will take over in the interim for the rest of the year

I'm really sorry to read most of these responses from you by point. Almost all of them I will disagree with strongly and can't really figure out why you could think this way about NFL football. I feel bad having to even say that. I felt worse about reading them. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

If no one here thinks there is a massive problem with basic clock management that NFL coaches should be ready for. Or if no one here can see that they doghoused their Qb's favorite target for one fumble on an otherwise perfect catch day. Or are not willing to see what can happen to a QB when you take his favorite target away, and otherwise call 30 short pass plays in the middle of field when down by multiple scores. Or when playing from behind, will plan to punt already after first down for any reason. Most especially after your defense earns an interception to give you another chance. If none of these are issues for many of you, then I'm in the wrong place. It must not have bothered you much seeing them lay down in the NFCC game last playoffs. Maybe it explains why there is only one thread of discussions about Vikings here now. It might be a specific type of fan to fit here.

I don't think I'll find much in the way of healthy conversation for me on this team here and don't want to waste your time further. I'm not happy with the direction of these coaches any longer and I'm bound to say it often at this point. Please excuse me.

sorry you feel that way jedzz, its been nice having you around and generating some conversation

reading your posts almost sounds to me like you expect perfection from the team (and coaches), and its almost like you feel that the team is out there on the field by themselves and they should always succeed - that the opponent and the things they do don't matter at all.

remember that they are just people out there, supremely talented and smart for sure but still just people, and everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. we're all just trying to do our best out there. you know how sometimes you have a bad day and just aren't feeling it? well that happens to nfl players too

this season wasn't ever going to be easy, they never are. i'm not sure if it would even be enjoyable to watch if it was. its good you're angry though, it means you care

i apologize if i am coming across as condescending, i don't mean to. if we don't see you again, good luck to you and i hope you can enjoy the rest of the season

[Sedale Threatt]

this does happen quite a bit (with all teams), teams will get backed up due to a loss or penalties and they'll just try and get some yards back to play field position. and what are they supposed to do anyway? going for something down field has some risk even more with a shaky o-line. compound that with a good saints pass rush and knowing they can pin their ears back. as the announcers like to say, there aren't a lot of plays in the playbook for 3rd and 25.

its not that unreasonable, they are only at their 25. i might be used to it since i see that all the time with the iowa hawkeyes (kirk ferentz is conservative by nature). zimmer is also a conservative, lean on his defense/offense score just enough points and don't screw it up. how that sequence played out is dictated by zim's philosophy and has happened prior to this year. remember defilippo came from the eagles who are a very aggressive team - i bet left to his own devices defilippo would be more aggressive.

this is the case with kickers as zimmer has no patience for them, but it makes no sense to punish your best offensive weapon. besides if punishing bad performances was something this team did then treadwell would for sure not be seeing the field

this isn't really a new problem with this oc either, the vikings have exhibited a lack of urgency during comebacks all during the zimmer era. this team is much better playing from ahead where zimmer can really work his magic on defense and the offense can just grind the game out (this also relates to the issue of not putting teams away and them coming back in games they don't have any business to)

so do you want to fire zimmer now? because one of the coordinators will take over in the interim for the rest of the year

I'm really sorry to read most of these responses from you by point. Almost all of them I will disagree with strongly and can't really figure out why you could think this way about NFL football. I feel bad having to even say that. I felt worse about reading them. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

If no one here thinks there is a massive problem with basic clock management that NFL coaches should be ready for. Or if no one here can see that they doghoused their Qb's favorite target for one fumble on an otherwise perfect catch day. Or are not willing to see what can happen to a QB when you take his favorite target away, and otherwise call 30 short pass plays in the middle of field when down by multiple scores. Or when playing from behind, will plan to punt already after first down for any reason. Most especially after your defense earns an interception to give you another chance. If none of these are issues for many of you, then I'm in the wrong place. It must not have bothered you much seeing them lay down in the NFCC game last playoffs. Maybe it explains why there is only one thread of discussions about Vikings here now. It might be a specific type of fan to fit here.

I don't think I'll find much in the way of healthy conversation for me on this team here and don't want to waste your time further. I'm not happy with the direction of these coaches any longer and I'm bound to say it often at this point. Please excuse me.

sorry you feel that way jedzz, its been nice having you around and generating some conversation

reading your posts almost sounds to me like you expect perfection from the team (and coaches), and its almost like you feel that the team is out there on the field by themselves and they should always succeed - that the opponent and the things they do don't matter at all.

remember that they are just people out there, supremely talented and smart for sure but still just people, and everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. we're all just trying to do our best out there. you know how sometimes you have a bad day and just aren't feeling it? well that happens to nfl players too

this season wasn't ever going to be easy, they never are. i'm not sure if it would even be enjoyable to watch if it was. its good you're angry though, it means you care

i apologize if i am coming across as condescending, i don't mean to. if we don't see you again, good luck to you and i hope you can enjoy the rest of the season

Trust me, as someone who has almost cornered the market on message board condescension, you're not.