Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[Skin]

Good article from OPP

also one of fans added this gem
"Among 223 players who have played 100 minutes or more this season, the Magic have two players in the bottom 10 in terms of PER – Jerian Grant (216th) and Jonathon Simmons (218th). The only other team with two players in the bottom 10 is the Oklahoma City Thunder, who is also the only team with a lower offensive rating than Orlando

The silver lining is that Orlando has a player offsetting those two with a top 10 PER – Nikola Vucevic, who is currently ranked 6th among qualified players"

article here ( damn i forgot to post url )
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/10/29/18038288/orlando-magic-stats

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

[pepe1991]

Good article from OPP

also one of fans added this gem
"Among 223 players who have played 100 minutes or more this season, the Magic have two players in the bottom 10 in terms of PER – Jerian Grant (216th) and Jonathon Simmons (218th). The only other team with two players in the bottom 10 is the Oklahoma City Thunder, who is also the only team with a lower offensive rating than Orlando

The silver lining is that Orlando has a player offsetting those two with a top 10 PER – Nikola Vucevic, who is currently ranked 6th among qualified players"

article here ( damn i forgot to post url )
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/10/29/18038288/orlando-magic-stats

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

[Def Swami]

Good article from OPP

also one of fans added this gem
"Among 223 players who have played 100 minutes or more this season, the Magic have two players in the bottom 10 in terms of PER – Jerian Grant (216th) and Jonathon Simmons (218th). The only other team with two players in the bottom 10 is the Oklahoma City Thunder, who is also the only team with a lower offensive rating than Orlando

The silver lining is that Orlando has a player offsetting those two with a top 10 PER – Nikola Vucevic, who is currently ranked 6th among qualified players"

article here ( damn i forgot to post url )
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/10/29/18038288/orlando-magic-stats

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

AND Vucevic is expiring. I'm not expecting much out of any deal for Vucevic.

[MagicStarwipe]

I don't want much. Half eaten bag of Doritos is fine.

[OrlandO]

7 straight years in the NBA toilet will do that to ya.

I try not to look at it that way since this is only Weltman and Hammond's second year and we know a lot of change is coming soon. Gotta hit the reset on expectations and patience, and treat it almost like the Hennigan era never happened.

Seems like we've been saying this since they were hired. The rationale for the "evaluation" year and no moves being made was that in the offseason everything would be blown up and all these moves would be made and that all the complainers just need to be patient, yet here we are with the same group of vets.

Vuc is probably gone this offseason, even though I wouldn't rule out us resigning him on a short-term deal considering how much the coaching staff and management likes him, Bamba not being ready, and how he seemingly still wants to be here, but outside of Vuc (which isn't a guarantee) and Ross, the rest of these vets could easily be brought back. I think a lot of us are just at the point where we have to actually see major moves being made before just assuming that they will be, because if you asked most of us last season at this time if these same vets would be here at this point next year most of us would have said no.

I don't see anything to panic about yet. The evaluation year last season was mandated by higher ups and Weltman has been chipping away at Henny's failed rebuild and abandoning it piece by piece ever since. EP is gone with DJ being used as a placeholder until a replacement is found through trade or free agency (maybe draft?). Mario is gone with his replacement in Isaac already starting. Vuc is expiring with his replacement in Bamba already in place to start next season, and Henny's biggest free agent signing/failure in Biyombo has already been dumped for a vet they can DNP without issues. Looks like rebuilding a failed rebuild to me. Takes time. Not like we've had cap space to upgrade or our youth are offensively developed to do more... and as far as I know Weltman's not turning down good trade offers.

We're in a weird transition period where we are basically just waiting things out... waiting for a trade opportunity... waiting for players to expire... waiting for cap space... waiting for another draft pick... waiting for young players to develop. Next season will be the first roster that I consider "Weltman's," but 2020 will be the year I really start to evaluate what he's done. By then he would have had plenty of opportunity to build a team through draft, trade and free agency.

[PrimeThyme]

I try not to look at it that way since this is only Weltman and Hammond's second year and we know a lot of change is coming soon. Gotta hit the reset on expectations and patience, and treat it almost like the Hennigan era never happened.

Seems like we've been saying this since they were hired. The rationale for the "evaluation" year and no moves being made was that in the offseason everything would be blown up and all these moves would be made and that all the complainers just need to be patient, yet here we are with the same group of vets.

Vuc is probably gone this offseason, even though I wouldn't rule out us resigning him on a short-term deal considering how much the coaching staff and management likes him, Bamba not being ready, and how he seemingly still wants to be here, but outside of Vuc (which isn't a guarantee) and Ross, the rest of these vets could easily be brought back. I think a lot of us are just at the point where we have to actually see major moves being made before just assuming that they will be, because if you asked most of us last season at this time if these same vets would be here at this point next year most of us would have said no.

I don't see anything to panic about yet. The evaluation year last season was mandated by higher ups and Weltman has been chipping away at Henny's failed rebuild and abandoning it piece by piece ever since. EP is gone with DJ being used as a placeholder until a replacement is found through trade or free agency (maybe draft?). Mario is gone with his replacement in Isaac already starting. Vuc is expiring with his replacement in Bamba already in place to start next season, and Henny's biggest free agent signing/failure in Biyombo has already been dumped for a vet they can DNP without issues. Looks like rebuilding a failed rebuild to me. Takes time. Not like we've had cap space to upgrade or our youth are offensively developed to do more... and as far as I know Weltman's not turning down good trade offers.

We're in a weird transition period where we are basically just waiting things out... waiting for a trade opportunity... waiting for players to expire... waiting for cap space... waiting for another draft pick... waiting for young players to develop. Next season will be the first roster that I consider "Weltman's," but 2020 will be the year I really start to evaluate what he's done. By then he would have had plenty of opportunity to build a team through draft, trade and free agency.

Not panicking yet, and though I've been very critical about WeHam thus far and detailed many times on this board some of the gripes I've had with them, I have not given up on them yet. The panic for me will set in next summer if as much turnover we are expecting to happen does not happen. I'm still in the wait and see mode, I don't yet have the confidence to say that next summer will go as we all want it to.

[Xatticus]

7 straight years in the NBA toilet will do that to ya.

I try not to look at it that way since this is only Weltman and Hammond's second year and we know a lot of change is coming soon. Gotta hit the reset on expectations and patience, and treat it almost like the Hennigan era never happened.

If we resign Vuc to a cap friendly deal and don’t make major trades this summer, how are you going to feel going into next season?

[Xatticus]

Good article from OPP

also one of fans added this gem
"Among 223 players who have played 100 minutes or more this season, the Magic have two players in the bottom 10 in terms of PER – Jerian Grant (216th) and Jonathon Simmons (218th). The only other team with two players in the bottom 10 is the Oklahoma City Thunder, who is also the only team with a lower offensive rating than Orlando

The silver lining is that Orlando has a player offsetting those two with a top 10 PER – Nikola Vucevic, who is currently ranked 6th among qualified players"

article here ( damn i forgot to post url )
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/10/29/18038288/orlando-magic-stats

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

That's pretty common though. Teams can simply wait to match the offer sheet and your cap space is tied up while free agents come off the board. It's seldom that a player will receive an offer sheet if everyone believes the team with the right to match will do so.

[OrlandO]

Seems like we've been saying this since they were hired. The rationale for the "evaluation" year and no moves being made was that in the offseason everything would be blown up and all these moves would be made and that all the complainers just need to be patient, yet here we are with the same group of vets.

Vuc is probably gone this offseason, even though I wouldn't rule out us resigning him on a short-term deal considering how much the coaching staff and management likes him, Bamba not being ready, and how he seemingly still wants to be here, but outside of Vuc (which isn't a guarantee) and Ross, the rest of these vets could easily be brought back. I think a lot of us are just at the point where we have to actually see major moves being made before just assuming that they will be, because if you asked most of us last season at this time if these same vets would be here at this point next year most of us would have said no.

I don't see anything to panic about yet. The evaluation year last season was mandated by higher ups and Weltman has been chipping away at Henny's failed rebuild and abandoning it piece by piece ever since. EP is gone with DJ being used as a placeholder until a replacement is found through trade or free agency (maybe draft?). Mario is gone with his replacement in Isaac already starting. Vuc is expiring with his replacement in Bamba already in place to start next season, and Henny's biggest free agent signing/failure in Biyombo has already been dumped for a vet they can DNP without issues. Looks like rebuilding a failed rebuild to me. Takes time. Not like we've had cap space to upgrade or our youth are offensively developed to do more... and as far as I know Weltman's not turning down good trade offers.

We're in a weird transition period where we are basically just waiting things out... waiting for a trade opportunity... waiting for players to expire... waiting for cap space... waiting for another draft pick... waiting for young players to develop. Next season will be the first roster that I consider "Weltman's," but 2020 will be the year I really start to evaluate what he's done. By then he would have had plenty of opportunity to build a team through draft, trade and free agency.

Not panicking yet, and though I've been very critical about WeHam thus far and detailed many times on this board some of the gripes I've had with them, I have not given up on them yet. The panic for me will set in next summer if as much turnover we are expecting to happen does not happen. I'm still in the wait and see mode, I don't yet have the confidence to say that next summer will go as we all want it to.

Sounds like PHSD... Post Hennigan Stress Disorder.

[thelead]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

[Ducklett]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Every time I look at Doncic's stats my heart breaks a little.

[drsd]

Reflective: Orlando's start was brutal and a 2-4 start is quite OK.

Things soften up and a 3-3 record over the next six is a reasonable goal.

[pepe1991]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Dončić per game
20 ppg ,6,5 rpg, 4 apg, 4 of 7 games over 20 points

Bamba and Isaac combined 13,ppg ,11,7 rpg ,1,7 apg, 0 games over 20 points

That's why you tank hard.
Few Ws less during tank season of 16-17 and 17-18 and team could look like this
Dončić
Evan
Tatum
Gordon
Vučević

probably 45 wins team today

[VFX]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Every time I look at Doncic's stats my heart breaks a little.

That’s the funniest part about people downplaying the players Orlando has drafted . The prospects supposedly aren’t ready yet, but rookies and younger players from other teams are already heavily contributing and proving their worth. For some reason, Orlando is one of the only organizations where lottery picks are never ready to play big minutes and are babied by the coaching staff and fan expectations.

People had waited with AG for 4 years and two contracts and are still waiting for him to hit the “next level”.

[pepe1991]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Every time I look at Doncic's stats my heart breaks a little.

That’s the funniest part about people downplaying the players Orlando has drafted . The prospects supposedly aren’t ready yet, but rookies and younger players from other teams are already heavily contributing and proving their worth. For some reason, Orlando is one of the only organizations where lottery picks are never ready to play big minutes and are babied by the coaching staff and fan expectations.

People had to waited with AG for 4 years and two contracts and are still waiting for him to hit the “next level”.

Part of it is who Magic draft.
They draft athletes who are yet to become basketball players, where others draft basketball players who happend to be athletes.

Gordon,Isaac, Bamba, Hezonja were all prospects.

Only Oladipo was ready to contribute.

IMO whole "prospect" thing become relevant when Prestie botched Thabeet and called him prospect to hide fact he sucks.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

I'm just as content with keeping Vucevic until the end of the season and letting him walk than trading him for another expiring or a worse contract.

There's just no difference to me.

He won't be here this time next year.

inb4 we max him!

This. I'll only believe Vucevic is gone when I see him in another team's jersey

[IllMagic04]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Dončić per game
20 ppg ,6,5 rpg, 4 apg, 4 of 7 games over 20 points

Bamba and Isaac combined 13,ppg ,11,7 rpg ,1,7 apg, 0 games over 20 points

That's why you tank hard.
Few Ws less during tank season of 16-17 and 17-18 and team could look like this
Dončić
Evan
Tatum
Gordon
Vučević

probably 45 wins team today

I dunno about Tatum. The Nets were all kinds of terrible. Out tanking them woulda been tough. We could have lost a couple more and got Fox though. But yea overall I agree with you. Those pointless win wrecked us. And remember idiots talking about "winning culture" when we won?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

[Furinkazan]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Every time I look at Doncic's stats my heart breaks a little.

Where are those guys from our board who called him a biggest bust in history?Im pretty sure we had some of those type as I recall fighting them here last spring.

[Furinkazan]

I'm just as content with keeping Vucevic until the end of the season and letting him walk than trading him for another expiring or a worse contract.

There's just no difference to me.

He won't be here this time next year.

inb4 we max him!

This. I'll only believe Vucevic is gone when I see him in another team's jersey

yeah not even a Woj report will make it for me.
Gotta drive him to the airport check medical examinations and see him in other team uniform to finally ....sigh...

[drsd]

Well aware that the Orlando Magic are still a work in progress, head coach Steve Clifford figured that his approach this season would need to be fluid as he analyzed and adjusted on an almost daily basis.

He’s proven to be right on that theory as the 2-4 Magic have alternately struggled on offense and defense while playing one of the NBA’s toughest schedules thus far. Already, Orlando has taken on playoff teams from Miami, Philadelphia, Boston, Portland and Milwaukee and their two victories came against the Heat and Celtics. However, the Magic were unable to build any momentum off those impressive performances because of alternating offensive and defensive issues in ugly losses to the Charlotte Hornets, Trail Blazers and Bucks.

NBA.com LINK

One formula that Clifford has given to his team as a goal that should produce success is this: If Orlando can be a top-10 defense and have an opportunistic offense that consistently knocks down shots, it can give itself a shot of being in games on a nightly basis. Clearly, the Magic still have plenty of improvements to make to be solid in both of those phases.