Which sophomores will make a major leap this year?

[IamHim]

Zach Collins so far has made the biggest jump.

Fox has.

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I'd say it's about a tie. Fox is better, but most of this board thought Collins was a complete bust last year. Everyone was already on the Fox train and knew he'd be good, might be a bit ahead of schedule but a lot of people we're on board with his potential.

I firmly believe that Collins is already bordering on elite in the defensive side of the ball, and now in his sophomore year, he's beginning to have legitimate offensive outbursts... You could probably argue either way with Collins/Fox on this... They'll probably both normalize in shooting percentages as the year goes on though.

I'll be honest with you. I wanted the Kings to take Collins at 10. I saw the 2 way potential and it is tantalizing. If people were calling him a bust then they have no eye for talent. The kid can shoot.

And I checked this board a lot and a lot of posters hated on Fox. The Hater is probably the number 1 guy in hating on the Kings (Surprise! They are 5-3 and he hasn't said anything). The Hater led the charge but a lot of posters (especially Laker fans) were on the Fox hate wagon too.

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[The_Hater]

Looks like so far the Laker Homer's were wrong and Ball has regressed. So far.

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This is highly inaccurate. His TS% has leaped from 44.4 to 56.5%, which is a massive leap. His counting stats are lower only because he's played less minutes with Rondo on board and coming off an injury. His shooting is much improved considrably from all 3 distances and his pp36 is up along with it despite taking less shots. His assists per 36 is down, but that's because he's handling the ball less with Bron on the team, so it's about his situation not regression. And his TO rate is down considerably as well.

You obviously showed up here with a preconceived agenda, I suggest next time you try this you pick one that is supported by facts.

[cool007]

I am actually disappointed in Tatum. His shooting has gotten worse but somehow Hype is still there.

[TheGreenArrow]

My boy frank nitilikina seems to have taken the leap.

[The_Hater]

I am actually disappointed in Tatum. His shooting has gotten worse but somehow Hype is still there.

His rebounding and passing have improved considrably and he's still well ahead of the curve on defense, I'm not sure that 7 games of mediocre shooting are a big enough of a sample to suddenly jump ship on his bright future.

[IamHim]

Looks like so far the Laker Homer's were wrong and Ball has regressed. So far.

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This is highly inaccurate. His TS% has leaped from 44.4 to 56.5%, which is a massive leap. His counting stats are lower only because he's played less minutes with Rondo on board and coming off an injury. His shooting is much improved considrably from all 3 distances and his pp36 is up along with it despite taking less shots. His assists per 36 is down, but that's because he's handling the ball less with Bron on the team, so it's about his situation not regression. And his TO rate is down considerably as well.

You obviously showed up here with a preconceived agenda, I suggest next time you try this you pick one that is supported by facts.

You are darn right I came here with an agenda (as I'm sure most people on this planet have an agenda lol). I have read enough drivel (from you particularly) about how terrible Fox is and how great Ball is. Its nonsense. Fox has looked like a future all star and with some minor elevation to particular aspects of his game a future all NBA player. Ball has NOT. He might have a bit more efficient numbers this year but all around he looks to have little impact on the game. There is no 'take charge' mentality there. It's not even a question. He isnt a leader. He isnt what you and Laker fans claim him to be. He is unclaimed potential.

Fox otoh has taken a surefire leap. Without a doubt. He is the main cog on a rejuvenated Kings squad. His on/off stats show this.

As much as I have seen you dump on the Kings/Vlade it's time for you to eat some crow.

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[IamHim]

According to ESPN:

"The Lakers have been outscored by 44 points over the seven games with Ball on the court, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking. And in the four games Rondo has played, the Lakers have outscored opponents by 17 points with Rondo on the floor."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25130049/lonzo-ball-los-angeles-lakers-says-needs-get-engaged-recent-struggles

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[The_Hater]

According to ESPN:

"The Lakers have been outscored by 44 points over the seven games with Ball on the court, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking. And in the four games Rondo has played, the Lakers have outscored opponents by 17 points with Rondo on the floor."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25130049/lonzo-ball-los-angeles-lakers-says-needs-get-engaged-recent-struggles

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Dig those heals in.

[Cappy_Smurf]

I'm not sure that 7 games of mediocre shooting are a big enough of a sample to suddenly jump ship on his bright future.

Agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping you from using that same sample to make an argument the other way on a couple players.

[The_Hater]

I'm not sure that 7 games of mediocre shooting are a big enough of a sample to suddenly jump ship on his bright future.

Agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping you from using that same sample to make an argument the other way on a couple players.

That’s fair, Ans obviously you’re talking about my Ball post. But the difference here is Ball was a horrible shooter last year from all 3 distances so that was that biggest criticism about his rookie year and the biggest question mark about his future. He’s obviously been working hard and thus far the results have been positive despite one poster trying to incorrectly claim that he’s regressed. Small sample size or not, I only pointed out to that poster that he was wrong based on the current information.

With Tatum, nobody was questioning his shooting last year and going forward so unless people think he he forgot how to shoot over the summer, it seems obvious to me that it’s aberration.

[nolang1]

I'm not sure that 7 games of mediocre shooting are a big enough of a sample to suddenly jump ship on his bright future.

Agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping you from using that same sample to make an argument the other way on a couple players.

That’s fair, Ans obviously you’re talking about my Ball post. But the difference here is Ball was a horrible shooter last year from all 3 distances so that was that biggest criticism about his rookie year and the biggest question mark about his future. He’s obviously been working hard and thus far the results have been positive despite one poster trying to incorrectly claim that he’s regressed. Small sample size or not, I only pointed out to that poster that he was wrong based on the current information.

With Tatum, nobody was questioning his shooting last year and going forward so unless people think he he forgot how to shoot over the summer, it seems obvious to me that it’s aberration.

That's completely made up. Plenty of people were questioning his hot start where he was literally leading the league in three-point percentage after not being known as a particularly great three-point shooter in high school and college. Obviously was due to regress from there.

[IamHim]

According to ESPN:

"The Lakers have been outscored by 44 points over the seven games with Ball on the court, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking. And in the four games Rondo has played, the Lakers have outscored opponents by 17 points with Rondo on the floor."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25130049/lonzo-ball-los-angeles-lakers-says-needs-get-engaged-recent-struggles

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Dig those heals in.

*heels


And you are still avoiding the VERY LARGE elephant here which was your "assessment" of DeAaron Fox.

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[The_Hater]

Agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping you from using that same sample to make an argument the other way on a couple players.

That’s fair, Ans obviously you’re talking about my Ball post. But the difference here is Ball was a horrible shooter last year from all 3 distances so that was that biggest criticism about his rookie year and the biggest question mark about his future. He’s obviously been working hard and thus far the results have been positive despite one poster trying to incorrectly claim that he’s regressed. Small sample size or not, I only pointed out to that poster that he was wrong based on the current information.

With Tatum, nobody was questioning his shooting last year and going forward so unless people think he he forgot how to shoot over the summer, it seems obvious to me that it’s aberration.

That's completely made up. Plenty of people were questioning his hot start where he was literally leading the league in three-point percentage after not being known as a particularly great three-point shooter in high school and college. Obviously was due to regress from there.

Made up? Questioning whether he was able to maintain 50% shooting from the arc as he was early last season and questioning whether he’s a good shooter or not are not the same thing. And Tatum was a very good shooter his entire rookie season.

Tatum’s worst month from the arc last season was 34.1%. His 2nd worst month was 39.1%. Every other month was >42.9%. So he had exactly one month below the league average and it was still pretty close and every other month his 3FG rate was somewhere between very good and excellent. His TS% for the season was 58.6% which is also well above the league average.

If you want to argue that an entire season of quality shooting is the aberration and his current rate of 28.6% over 7 games is closer to his ability and it’s time to question his ability as a shooter then so be it. But that would be closer to ‘made up’ than anything I’ve written in this thread.

[IamHim]

That’s fair, Ans obviously you’re talking about my Ball post. But the difference here is Ball was a horrible shooter last year from all 3 distances so that was that biggest criticism about his rookie year and the biggest question mark about his future. He’s obviously been working hard and thus far the results have been positive despite one poster trying to incorrectly claim that he’s regressed. Small sample size or not, I only pointed out to that poster that he was wrong based on the current information.

With Tatum, nobody was questioning his shooting last year and going forward so unless people think he he forgot how to shoot over the summer, it seems obvious to me that it’s aberration.

That's completely made up. Plenty of people were questioning his hot start where he was literally leading the league in three-point percentage after not being known as a particularly great three-point shooter in high school and college. Obviously was due to regress from there.

Made up? Questioning whether he was able to maintain 50% shooting from the arc as he was early last season and questioning whether he’s a good shooter or not are not the same thing. And Tatum was a very good shooter his entire rookie season.

Tatum’s worst month from the arc last season was 34.1%. His 2nd worst month was 39.1%. Every other month was >42.9%. So he had exactly one month below the league average and it was still pretty close and every other month his 3FG rate was somewhere between very good and excellent. His TS% for the season was 58.6% which is also well above the league average.

If you want to argue that an entire season of quality shooting is the aberration and his current rate of 28.6% over 7 games is closer to his ability and it’s time to question his ability as a shooter then so be it. But that would be closer to ‘made up’ than anything I’ve written in this thread.

You make up a lot of things to fit your 'agenda' boss. Dont get mad at being called out.

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[nolang1]

That’s fair, Ans obviously you’re talking about my Ball post. But the difference here is Ball was a horrible shooter last year from all 3 distances so that was that biggest criticism about his rookie year and the biggest question mark about his future. He’s obviously been working hard and thus far the results have been positive despite one poster trying to incorrectly claim that he’s regressed. Small sample size or not, I only pointed out to that poster that he was wrong based on the current information.

With Tatum, nobody was questioning his shooting last year and going forward so unless people think he he forgot how to shoot over the summer, it seems obvious to me that it’s aberration.

That's completely made up. Plenty of people were questioning his hot start where he was literally leading the league in three-point percentage after not being known as a particularly great three-point shooter in high school and college. Obviously was due to regress from there.

Made up? Questioning whether he was able to maintain 50% shooting from the arc as he was early last season and questioning whether he’s a good shooter or not are not the same thing. And Tatum was a very good shooter his entire rookie season.

Tatum’s worst month from the arc last season was 34.1%. His 2nd worst month was 39.1%. Every other month was >42.9%. So he had exactly one month below the league average and it was still pretty close and every other month his 3FG rate was somewhere between very good and excellent. His TS% for the season was 58.6% which is also well above the league average.

If you want to argue that an entire season of quality shooting is the aberration and his current rate of 28.6% over 7 games is closer to his ability and it’s time to question his ability as a shooter then so be it. But that would be closer to ‘made up’ than anything I’ve written in this thread.

Don't know what you're rambling about but it was certainly more likely for him to end up shooting an average or slightly below-average mark from three this season than it was for him to be 40+ percent again.

[The_Hater]

That's completely made up. Plenty of people were questioning his hot start where he was literally leading the league in three-point percentage after not being known as a particularly great three-point shooter in high school and college. Obviously was due to regress from there.

Made up? Questioning whether he was able to maintain 50% shooting from the arc as he was early last season and questioning whether he’s a good shooter or not are not the same thing. And Tatum was a very good shooter his entire rookie season.

Tatum’s worst month from the arc last season was 34.1%. His 2nd worst month was 39.1%. Every other month was >42.9%. So he had exactly one month below the league average and it was still pretty close and every other month his 3FG rate was somewhere between very good and excellent. His TS% for the season was 58.6% which is also well above the league average.

If you want to argue that an entire season of quality shooting is the aberration and his current rate of 28.6% over 7 games is closer to his ability and it’s time to question his ability as a shooter then so be it. But that would be closer to ‘made up’ than anything I’ve written in this thread.

Don't know what you're rambling about but it was certainly more likely for him to end up shooting an average or slightly below-average mark from three this season than it was for him to be 40+ percent again.

Of course you don’t, I should have realized that statisitcal evidence is too much for some people to comprehend.

[scrabbarista]

What I've seen in the first two plus weeks of the season leads me to believe Fox has improved as much as any player in the league over the last twelve months. So I had to vote other. Tatum is my pick among the available options, but Ntilikina has shown he's on track to be special, too.

[nolang1]

Made up? Questioning whether he was able to maintain 50% shooting from the arc as he was early last season and questioning whether he’s a good shooter or not are not the same thing. And Tatum was a very good shooter his entire rookie season.

Tatum’s worst month from the arc last season was 34.1%. His 2nd worst month was 39.1%. Every other month was >42.9%. So he had exactly one month below the league average and it was still pretty close and every other month his 3FG rate was somewhere between very good and excellent. His TS% for the season was 58.6% which is also well above the league average.

If you want to argue that an entire season of quality shooting is the aberration and his current rate of 28.6% over 7 games is closer to his ability and it’s time to question his ability as a shooter then so be it. But that would be closer to ‘made up’ than anything I’ve written in this thread.

Don't know what you're rambling about but it was certainly more likely for him to end up shooting an average or slightly below-average mark from three this season than it was for him to be 40+ percent again.

Of course you don’t, I should have realized that statisitcal evidence is too much for some people to comprehend.

Regression to the mean is something you would learn in literally the first week of any statistics class, and you clearly don't understand that. And in response to the predictable retort, Jayson Tatum didn't fall out of an asteroid and start playing basketball last October, so there's more statistical evidence than just one year of 43% shooting (which compared to his three-point shooting in high school and college is looking like more of an aberration than this season). Really the only difference between last year and this year is that he isn't taking only wide-open threes; he's making about the same number of threes per game.

[IamHim]

I like OG and wanted to put him on the poll but it only gives you 10 options.
In fact, there are a ton of players that could surprise and make a huge leap this year, including:

OG
Isaac
Adebayo
John Collins
JAllen
Semi
Jordan Bell
Dorsey
Brook
Anigbogu

Ton of talent here.

You've named 20 players now and still no mention of Fox. The training wheels are going to be taken off this coming season and Ball will still avoid playing him.

This is page 4 on this thread. I dont know how many people mentioned Fox.

1 or None?

I saw Fox last year and thought he was okay but nothing special. However, I dont follow him actively. This summer, he showed nothing against the Lakers again so why dont you enlighten me on why Fox will make that jump.

Scoreboard.

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[IamHim]

You've named 20 players now and still no mention of Fox. The training wheels are going to be taken off this coming season and Ball will still avoid playing him.

This is page 4 on this thread. I dont know how many people mentioned Fox.

1 or None?

I saw Fox last year and thought he was okay but nothing special. However, I dont follow him actively. This summer, he showed nothing against the Lakers again so why dont you enlighten me on why Fox will make that jump.

i like Fox and i think Frank Mason makes a leap as well and Justin Jackson...Kings will be a lot better this year.

You should change your user name to Prophet

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