Fake Trade Thread

[Belf]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

[316Hornets]

If we are trading Kemba, there is no reason to trade Batum since we would be rebuilding and everybody wants to short change us on him. There is a minimum salary to be paid

[amcoolio]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

There are serveral worse capsheets than ours. Washington and Miami are way worse than ours and they are in our division. Orlando's isn't that great either and I'd say on par with ours. A lot of our cap is freed after next season as there is no chance Biyombo, MKG, Marvin Williams or Kaminsky get another big contract. That combined with the expected increases in cap, we are fine.

[LofJ]

I'm going to hate it if we end up trading Bridges for Butler. MKG, Lamb, and a top 4 protected 2019 1st is the most I'd offer.

[Belf]

There are serveral worse capsheets than ours. Washington and Miami are way worse than ours and they are in our division. Orlando's isn't that great either and I'd say on par with ours. A lot of our cap is freed after next season as there is no chance Biyombo, MKG, Marvin Williams or Kaminsky get another big contract. That combined with the expected increases in cap, we are fine.

The Hornets are going to lose Kemba, the only actual proven BBall player they have. Washington at least has a lot of their cap tied up in all stars, but we can agree to disagree here. They've hit their 6 seed ceiling yes, but that's better than having a "maybe 8th seed" ceiling. Orlando has more young talent tied up longer (Aaron Gordon vs Zeller) which I feel makes it more favorable. Miami is the only other team with a cap situation that might be as bad, but at least their overpaid bench mob level players might have some trade value because they play hard.

Basically what I'm arguing is that the there are really only 2 paths going forward for a small market team like the Hornets. The first is a 76ers like "Process" of trading away all of your assets for draft picks and then embarking on an 8 year rebuild using cap space to absorb bad contracts. That's not super realistic as an option because the only trade chip the Hornets have is Kemba and he loses some of the value because he's potentially just a rental for any team. Batum+Zeller also team up to reduce the cap space available to eat bad contracts for future picks making a rebuild like this harder because they come off right as you have to pay Monk.

The 2nd method is to clear up 2 or 3 max slots and try to convince multiple FAs to build a super team. I feel this is a more realistic path forward for the Hornets because they only have to potentially dump 1 extra year of Batum instead of trying to get multiple years of his contract off the books. Let's say the above trade happens. And then the Hornets trade Zeller and a heavily protected 1st (or a couple of 2nds) for someone like Mahinmi, or Tristian Thompson, or Chandler Parsons, or whoever that expires in 2020. That lets the organization go into the 2020 with only Monk, Bridges, 2019 1st round pick on the books (and Graham's non guaranteed money). Monk, Bridges + 2 max FAs in 2020 as the core (with ~$30m to flesh out the roster) while retaining all of their draft picks and Bird rights going forward.

Or I mean I guess option 3 is trade away picks to dump bad contracts. Try to resign Kemba who will be unhappy spinning his wheels with rosters that can never truly compete because turning 5 bad contracts into 3 still wont get you anywhere near the conference finals. And after 4 years an old Kemba's max contract becomes a liability weighing down the prime years of Monk and Bridges (without the young picks coming through because they've been used to try to dump guys. Basically a death by a thousand cuts instead of ripping off the "bad contracts" band-aid once and for all, taking a hiding next year to be completely free and clear in the future.

[amcoolio]

I don't think we are losing Kemba, not sure why you are being so stone cold serious on that one. We can pay him what he wants and he wants to be here. If he requests a trade, sure. But until that time comes he isn't that type of player, he likes it here.

Washington is paying John Wall 47 MILLION DOLLARS when he is 32. That automatically makes their cap sheet really bad. I could be wrong but Kemba's max is nowhere near that.

If Charlotte "clears their cap" like you want them to do, then you posters will be like "no star is signing in Charlotte". So why are we gutting our team again?

[Belf]

If Charlotte "clears their cap" like you want them to do, then you posters will be like "no star is signing in Charlotte". So why are we gutting our team again?

It's a product of the new NBA environment. If you aren't a large market (lots of extra endorsement $$) then your only real options for building a contender are to hit in the draft on multiple young stars or to gut your roster and convince multiple players to team up.

But either way the path to contention begins with clearing your cap sheet. You either immediately use the space to convince multiple All Stars to team up in FA, or you use the space to absorb bad contracts and draft picks. People think the treadmill of mediocrity in the NBA is making the 8th seed non stop. It's not. The treadmill is having multiple role players making $15/yr because you can never afford to attract multiple difference makers once the playoff rotations shrink to 7-8 players. The fact that you always make the 8 seed is a byproduct of having multiple good but not great vets.

[KembaWalker]

lol if we traded Kemba for that package you might as well just fold the franchise wtf

[MasterIchiro]

We hit the draft jackpot already with Kemba. We won the 1.6 billion Powerball.

I have a smart idea.

Let's use the proceeds from the winning ticket to purchase 1.6 billion more lottery tickets!

[Liver_Pooty]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

The drug epidemic in America has reached an all time high.

[Bassman]

If Charlotte "clears their cap" like you want them to do, then you posters will be like "no star is signing in Charlotte". So why are we gutting our team again?

It's a product of the new NBA environment. If you aren't a large market (lots of extra endorsement $$) then your only real options for building a contender are to hit in the draft on multiple young stars or to gut your roster and convince multiple players to team up.

But either way the path to contention begins with clearing your cap sheet. You either immediately use the space to convince multiple All Stars to team up in FA, or you use the space to absorb bad contracts and draft picks. People think the treadmill of mediocrity in the NBA is making the 8th seed non stop. It's not. The treadmill is having multiple role players making $15/yr because you can never afford to attract multiple difference makers once the playoff rotations shrink to 7-8 players. The fact that you always make the 8 seed is a byproduct of having multiple good but not great vets.

Great points Belf. I think your description of the Hornet’s dilemma/predicament is spot on. The “cure” could be one of the two directions you suggest, but making multiple deals is very hard to pull off. Agree Kemba is likely to be re-signed regardless of the cost, which will lead to being perpetually just ..... OK.

The sad fact is that the NBA is so competitive, so challenging, that only super teams have any hope to win championships. The rules are designed to accentuate great athletes/shooters/defenders on the wings, minimize physical perimeter play while accepting mugging in the post, and removed the classic big man inside game to showcase 3 pointers. You have to get extremely lucky to draft a superstar or two, but if you’re small market, you’ll not keep them. The other route is free agent superstars, but they don’t go to small markets. Kemba is the only star we’ve drafted and kept (so far), and likely can keep for his next contract, but he is not a major star or superstar. We have good players to build on in Monk, Bridges, Graham, but none certan to ever make the all-star team. Unfortunately we have no high quality bigs to lean on for the future. We are also missing a true deadly SG who can close games.

I say keep Kemba, deal any fat contracts we can without giving away a lottery pick, and just try to enjoy what we can. Our failed drafts killed any opportunity we may have had to surround Kemba with a team to climb the mountain.

[MasterIchiro]

GM: hey, Mitch ole buddy ole pal, how about Kemba?

Kupchak: How about Marvin Williams?

[jbk1234]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

I'm not even a Hornets fans but this makes no sense. If, after another 20 games, something has to give, then you trade either Batum or Kemba. You don't trade both. If you're entering a rebuild, you don't surrender value to dump a bad contract. You play through that bad contract while you rebuild.

[jbk1234]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

I'm not even a Hornets fans but this makes no sense. If, after another 20 games, something has to give, then you trade either Batum or Kemba. You don't trade both. If you're entering a rebuild, you don't surrender value to dump a bad contract. You play through that bad contract while you rebuild.

[GoBobs]

What would you guys think of Biz, Frank and a protected first for Dendrae Jordan? Could solve our rebounding and defense problems.

[Belf]

I'm not even a Hornets fans but this makes no sense. If, after another 20 games, something has to give, then you trade either Batum or Kemba. You don't trade both. If you're entering a rebuild, you don't surrender value to dump a bad contract. You play through that bad contract while you rebuild.

Batum is quite possibly the worst contract in BBall. It's this season and then 2 more after that! The Hornets would need to attach assets to move him. Kemba, Monk, Bridges, and future 1st round draft picks are the only assets that the Hornets have currently. I think Kemba's gone. Others on here disagree with that thought. Even if he does resign, the Cap situation assuredly means that he won't be surrounded by enough to be a contender.

Yes it sucks to lose Kemba. I live in SC, I love watching him play on TV. I absolutely think that he can be a lead player on a championship team.

But the cronic mismanagement of the team and the bloated contracts mean that it's just not going to happen while he's in his prime. Why not thank him for his service to the city by moving him somewhere where he can maybe compete. The fact that you could get off a bad contact in the process is gravy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The path to contention begins with clearing your cap sheet. The Hornets have multiple bad 2 year contracts AND multiple bad 3 year contracts. The goal should be to turn all of those 3 years ones into 2 year ones so that you only have next season to be in purgatory. Then after next season the organization can decide going forward what plan they're going to implement.

[jbk1234]

I'm not even a Hornets fans but this makes no sense. If, after another 20 games, something has to give, then you trade either Batum or Kemba. You don't trade both. If you're entering a rebuild, you don't surrender value to dump a bad contract. You play through that bad contract while you rebuild.

Batum is quite possibly the worst contract in BBall. It's this season and then 2 more after that! The Hornets would need to attach assets to move him. Kemba, Monk, Bridges, and future 1st round draft picks are the only assets that the Hornets have currently. I think Kemba's gone. Others on here disagree with that thought. Even if he does resign, the Cap situation assuredly means that he won't be surrounded by enough to be a contender.

Yes it sucks to lose Kemba. I live in SC, I love watching him play on TV. I absolutely think that he can be a lead player on a championship team.

But the cronic mismanagement of the team and the bloated contracts mean that it's just not going to happen while he's in his prime. Why not thank him for his service to the city by moving him somewhere where he can maybe compete. The fact that you could get off a bad contact in the process is gravy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The path to contention begins with clearing your cap sheet. The Hornets have multiple bad 2 year contracts AND multiple bad 3 year contracts. The goal should be to turn all of those 3 years ones into 2 year ones so that you only have next season to be in purgatory. Then after next season the organization can decide going forward what plan they're going to implement.

You're not addressing the fundamental flaw in your reasoning, if they trade Kemba or if he walks after this season, they don't need to worry about dumping Batum. Rebuilding teams don't attach assets to bad contracts. They just play out those bad contracts.

[Belf]

You're not addressing the fundamental flaw in your reasoning, if they trade Kemba or if he walks after this season, they don't need to worry about dumping Batum. Rebuilding teams don't attach assets to bad contracts. They just play out those bad contracts.

You can have 2 seasons of bad contracts to sit through, or 1 season, which would you prefer? As I've said before. My plan for the Hornets would be to use Kemba to turn those 3 year deals into 2 year deals and then go into 2020 free agency with ~$90m in cap space to try to convince multiple All-Stars to team up into a big 3 instead of spinning the tires trying to drag along all these overpaid players.

If the Hornets are going to lose Kemba anyway (as I believe they are), then why not try to get the best possible return? IMO the best possible return is to dump the $24m owed to Batum in 2020. If you can speed your rebuild up by a whole season, why would you not want to do that? The player/players you get back from Kemba/Batum don't really matter as long as their deals expire after next season. That's why I suggested Gasol, the Spurs would most likely be willing to turn him and some fillers into Kemba/Batum because it makes their team better in the short term to compete this season. I don't care that it makes the Hornets worse in the short term because a) in my scenario they are playing for the 2020 season, and b) a worse record in the short term means a slightly better draft pick this offseason.

[Benjamin Linus]

Nah, if we’re going to rebuild we should trust the process. Picks & prospects >> cap space. Besides we’re not signing “multiple All-Stars” in 2020 unless we relocate and become the Los Angeles Hornets

[MasterIchiro]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7125971

The Hornets can't compete. Tear it down and go full rebuild. They also have maybe the worst cap sheet in the NBA (vs Miami). The best course of action would be to consolidate as many of the contracts into expiring on the same year as possible. Hopefully without sacrificing draft capital to do so. The above trade leaves the Hornets with only Zeller's $15.5m on the books going into the 2020 season. You could probably package Zeller with a 1st round pick for a player like Washington's Ian Mahinmi too if you wanted to just dump him and have complete cap freedom for 2020. Next season the basketball would be unwatchable, but short term pain for long term freedom is realistically the only option right now.

San Antonio for their part gets to run out a starting 5 of:
Kemba, DeRozan, Batum, Gay, Aldridge

Maybe they bite.

Maybe they bite? They can bite my nuts.

Kemba is worth more than any Spur, including Derozan.