Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[magicman112]

Weltman and Hammond have a lot of experience as GMs and Basketball Ops guys. I'm starting to wonder if they're operating under orders from above them with their lack of action. The evaluation year I understood and accepted but that's over with now.

[pepe1991]

for all the people who say we should play gordon, isaac and bamba together because they're our future, instead of vuc and fournier. I'd agree in premise, but sadly BIG is not the future either. management is throwing **** at the wall to see which one will stick.

It just takes pair of functional semi funcional eyes and basics of basketball to figure 3 stiff offensive players who can't handle pass or make good decisions with ball on consistent bases can't play together.

Matter of fact i'm not sure any combination of two of three of them can co -exist. Terrible fits.

I've been saying this since the summer. There is no way a frontcourt of offensive challenged players is gonna do anything worth a damm. Even before we drafted Bamba I was for trading AG. It's infuriating how this team has been built backwards. Everyone is scoring, shooting more and running, creating spacing and we keep drafting defensive projects with limited skill. BIG was all hype but no real substance, mostly wishful thinking because it's what we got, a desperate hope. This team is like the Neanthardal facing extinction.

Yes, nothing to add to that. We all said it 1534 times by now.
Can't have modern team without shooting, passing and creation. And when you put 3 players without talent to do so, you can't be suprised that results are team that struggles to score 100 points on 95 shots and 20 free throws.

[MagicStarwipe]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

[Optimus_Steel]

Weltman and Hammond have a lot of experience as GMs and Basketball Ops guys. I'm starting to wonder if they're operating under orders from above them with their lack of action. The evaluation year I understood and accepted but that's over with now.

Alex Martin's. He has gotten way too much of a pass for making the deal to keep the team here. It's been over 10 years now, time to let it go and judge him in the last 7 years of incompetence. The results speak for themselves, he should be fired immediately. Unfortunately he wont because the Devo's family have this stupid loyalty mantra crap.

[pepe1991]

Weltman and Hammond have a lot of experience as GMs and Basketball Ops guys. I'm starting to wonder if they're operating under orders from above them with their lack of action. The evaluation year I understood and accepted but that's over with now.

Yea because their clear championship pedigree is written all over Raptors and Bucks....
oh, wait... nevermind.

I honestlly can't belive that somebody can look at Hammond's history as GM and think he is good at his job.

[Optimus_Steel]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

I said it in the game thread and since Ibaka was here it's been the same. These guys look like hostage victims being forced to step out in the court.

[OrlChamps2030]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

I agree with you, BIG is all I care about this season.. but realistically we’re not going to see them much early in the season with a coach still trying to win

[PrimeThyme]

I’d be willing to bet that we don’t see Isaac again until December and possibly even January, so all the big talk is pointless anyways. Hopefully by then we will be bad enough to force some trades.

[woosah]

I wonder if this is the worst we have ever been. Could the inaugural team have beat this team? Would Theus score 30 on them? lol

What free agent have we tried to get since being the Poogic? Milsap turned us down i think, but we have not really tried to get anyone big. I don't see anyone wanting to come here with it being like this. Stripping it down would have the real fans, hardcore ones, super interested but everyone will look so bad we would have no hope of trades and probably look even worse to free agents. I just see no hope here right now.

[CZ Eddie]

The results speak for themselves, he should be fired immediately. Unfortunately he wont because the Devo's family have this stupid loyalty mantra crap.

Loyalty is subjective but we do have a lot of it from our owners.
It's one reason I love the Magic.

[OrlandoDream]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

Light up the league with what? Enough bricks to build a new arena? Gordon Isaac and Bamba right now at this stage in their career would be lucky to score 80ppg on a nightly basis. AG can't create his own shot and needs a backcourt that can set him up, pass through screens/cuts and just find him and get him involved in the offense. Isaac is injured again and I suspect he wont be ready for a healthy NBA season in full until next year. AG was injured his first two years too.

Vuc and Fournier just need to GTFO for good. Fournier is just team cancer. Awful playmaker, only passes to vuc and just doesn't trust the rest of his teammates and makes the offense look like sh*t. If Clifford has the balls, he should bench Fournier and start Ross. Ross is so much better than Fournier and offense actually flow when he is in.

the BIG will play together one day but not yet unless we want to full tank.

[magicman112]

Weltman and Hammond have a lot of experience as GMs and Basketball Ops guys. I'm starting to wonder if they're operating under orders from above them with their lack of action. The evaluation year I understood and accepted but that's over with now.

Yea because their clear championship pedigree is written all over Raptors and Bucks....
oh, wait... nevermind.

I honestlly can't belive that somebody can look at Hammond's history as GM and think he is good at his job.

I didn't mean that they built championship teams. They've been around for a long time and I was speaking more about Weltman than I was of Hammond Toronto hasn't won titles but they've been a contender in the east for several years now. I was not very pleased when he was hired as GM I remember going on the Bucks board after we got Tobes from them and they were going on and on about how terrible he was.

[WeAreVenom]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

Light up the league with what? Enough bricks to build a new arena? Gordon Isaac and Bamba right now at this stage in their career would be lucky to score 80ppg on a nightly basis. AG can't create his own shot and needs a backcourt that can set him up, pass through screens/cuts and just find him and get him involved in the offense. Isaac is injured again and I suspect he wont be ready for a healthy NBA season in full until next year. AG was injured his first two years too.

Vuc and Fournier just need to GTFO for good. Fournier is just team cancer. Awful playmaker, only passes to vuc and just doesn't trust the rest of his teammates and makes the offense look like sh*t. If Clifford has the balls, he should bench Fournier and start Ross. Ross is so much better than Fournier and offense actually flow when he is in.

the BIG will play together one day but not yet unless we want to full tank.

I won't be satisfied until these 2 are off the team. I don't care if we lose that next 70 straight, matter of fact, I hope we do. Just not with them.

How the mighty have fallen. I remember when we were on here pissed about "only" making it to the ECF in 2010. Now we've fallen into the worst possible spot you can be in the NBA: No-Man's Land. No possibility of a championship, but still winning enough to be out of the lottery. And we've been here for years. This has got to stop.

[dsg2021]

Would be awesome to get Tobias back in FA this year. Imagine the offensive boost Tobias, another 2 FA signings like JJ Redick and a good PG, with a draft pick like Langford or Reddish could have.

[rcklsscognition]

I know you need someone to pass but AG not being involved is as much on him as anyone else. He is just not present out there on offense. He isn't assertive and has no idea what to do with the ball. The dude was practicing fadeaway elbow turnaround jumpers during halftime of the Kings game. He didn't know you had to box out to get rebounds. He will be 30 and on his 4th contract before he learns the fundamentals.

I don't know how you speed that up but whatever we are doing isn't working. It's just taking too long for everyone we draft to put the pieces together.

I'm starting to wonder if unlike talented draft picks, these athletic guys who don't know how to play need to be developed differently. Maybe high load forced offense is what they need. Force them to put up 15 fgas a game. Give them individual tasks each game. Maybe we are too afraid of gifting minutes and creating entitled players. Can't hurt to try something else.

[Optimus_Steel]

I know you need someone to pass but AG not being involved is as much on him as anyone else. He is just not present out there on offense. He isn't assertive and has no idea what to do with the ball. The dude was practicing fadeaway elbow turnaround jumpers during halftime of the Kings game. He didn't know you had to box out to get rebounds. He will be 30 and on his 4th contract before he learns the fundamentals.

I don't know how you speed that up but whatever we are doing isn't working. It's just taking too long for everyone we draft to put the pieces together.

I'm starting to wonder if unlike talented draft picks, these athletic guys who don't know how to play need to be developed differently. Maybe high load forced offense is what they need. Force them to put up 15 fgas a game. Give them individual tasks each game. Maybe we are too afraid of gifting minutes and creating entitled players. Can't hurt to try something else.

I think they are just not that talented. Yeah they have athletic talent but they lack skills and skills are talent.

[MagicStarwipe]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

Light up the league with what? Enough bricks to build a new arena? Gordon Isaac and Bamba right now at this stage in their career would be lucky to score 80ppg on a nightly basis. AG can't create his own shot and needs a backcourt that can set him up, pass through screens/cuts and just find him and get him involved in the offense. Isaac is injured again and I suspect he wont be ready for a healthy NBA season in full until next year. AG was injured his first two years too.

Vuc and Fournier just need to GTFO for good. Fournier is just team cancer. Awful playmaker, only passes to vuc and just doesn't trust the rest of his teammates and makes the offense look like sh*t. If Clifford has the balls, he should bench Fournier and start Ross. Ross is so much better than Fournier and offense actually flow when he is in.

the BIG will play together one day but not yet unless we want to full tank.

I do. Desperately!

[WeAreVenom]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying play BIG together and they will light up the league. Nah... play them so we can properly see what we have. See how they handle responsibility. See how much potential for growth there is in their games. See if they show any signs of being able to play together. See which ones are really expendable. See how they look when you run plays for them all night. See how quickly they learn, or if they learn at all. And tank for a better pick while doing it. We suck either way!!

It's looking like we know what AG is going to be now. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure he's going to play a lot better on another team. Why? Because of something that has been clear here for years. THIS TEAM DOES NOT LIKE PLAYING TOGETHER AND HAS HORRIBLE CHEMISTRY.

Light up the league with what? Enough bricks to build a new arena? Gordon Isaac and Bamba right now at this stage in their career would be lucky to score 80ppg on a nightly basis. AG can't create his own shot and needs a backcourt that can set him up, pass through screens/cuts and just find him and get him involved in the offense. Isaac is injured again and I suspect he wont be ready for a healthy NBA season in full until next year. AG was injured his first two years too.

Vuc and Fournier just need to GTFO for good. Fournier is just team cancer. Awful playmaker, only passes to vuc and just doesn't trust the rest of his teammates and makes the offense look like sh*t. If Clifford has the balls, he should bench Fournier and start Ross. Ross is so much better than Fournier and offense actually flow when he is in.

the BIG will play together one day but not yet unless we want to full tank.

I do. Desperately!

Me too, this season is already a wash for me.

I just hope they don't something stupid like trade for a vet in a half-***ed attempt to make the playoffs, and we make the 8th seed and end up as fodder for Toronto or somebody. No thanks.

Do the right thing, send off Vuc/Evan, play BIG, and tank tank tank it up.

[pepe1991]

When i was kid i had gym coach who probably said best thing in my life - in life and in sports you have to find thing you are good at.
He said he tried to play football and sucked and than he figured his physical strenght was best thing he had and started to practice wrestling, at age 12. Later he become national champion, he gave up pro career to become coach but never left wrestling overall. In 2015 he become vets world champion under 76 kilos.

New bodybuilding and powerlifting marvel Larry Wheels shares similar story, he said he was never good at anything but lifting weights. But it was enough.

How does that have anything to do with Magic?
Well IMO that has been main issue for almost all Magic prospects.
They really have no clue what they are good at , or ,if they do, they don't know how to ulitize that on the floor.
Every year Hezonja and Gordon say that they work on all around game, every year they come back being almost idential players they were in previous season.
Isaac now has 18 months with NBA coaches and he still looks the same.

Iwundu is same story.

I look at Dončić and in reality he really doesn't do anything special. But he knows what he can't do. He won't attemp turnaround fadeaway 3s because he knows he sucks at it, he won't try to go for a glory and dunk on Gobert because he knows he can't.

At some point if you are young kid you have to find one go ahaed move that you can't miss. And work from there, I remember that Jabbar episode on Full house sitcome when he told Jessie he has to find his sweet spot and it's kind a true. Find ONE move you are great at and put your a*** there, work to oblivion from there and expend your game from there.
Today i belive most coaches ,nba coaches included just waste their time and energy with this young prospects trying to turn them all into Durants and it's not effective or efficient way to practice if you try to "focus" on everything.

[rcklsscognition]

To be fair JI has spent his entire career focusing on his ankle conditioning so we shouldn't expect him to attempt to learn how to play basketball for another few years once he is up for a 20 million contract.

AG meanwhile out hoisting up his fadeaways in warmpups makes you realize he is trying to shoot these things on purpose and someone in his circle is telling him it's "his move".