Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters

[AirInTheLoop]

And they're paying Melo on the cap this year, so can't use that space you said they wanted.

.... again, it was for the removal of a long term contract and at the end of this season, before free agency, they will have that cap...... are you actually confused on this?

[bondom34]

Schroder on court with Westbrook and George has been a -3.8 net rating.

Westbrook/George without Schroder has been a +11.4

Schroder/George without Westbrook has been a -9.5.

He's currently at a .475 TS, with a TO% 2nd worst on the team for players who've played non-garbage minutes ahead of only Ferguson. He's likely the worst defender, and has been below average shooting everywhere except long midrange 2s.

[slick_watts]

Sure, part of that 15M was speculation on ATLs part... and then he became the starter and did what he did.

yes, he performed so poorly and became such a problem on and off the court that the hawks could not give him away for nothing. meaning: he is no longer worth his contract. i don't see what you're getting at here. he was just traded for $25 million of dead salary-- he's a bad contract, a bad value. you can't just talk your way out of a thing that actually happened.

[bondom34]

And they're paying Melo on the cap this year, so can't use that space you said they wanted.

.... again, it was for the removal of a long term contract and at the end of this season, before free agency, they will have that cap...... are you actually confused on this?

No, but I don't think you get that a $25M cap hit isn't exactly nothing when they paid the guy to go away. And literally couldn't pawn him onto another team. And his numbers are awful this year.

[AirInTheLoop]

Schroder on court with Westbrook and George has been a -3.8 net rating.

Westbrook/George without Schroder has been a +11.4

Schroder/George without Westbrook has been a -9.5.

He's currently at a .475 TS, with a TO% 2nd worst on the team for players who've played non-garbage minutes ahead of only Ferguson. He's likely the worst defender, and has been below average shooting everywhere except long midrange 2s.

What does any of this have to do with the fact that we now have a second unit that is coming in and acting like they know how to play in the NBA?
You can nit pick reasons all you like on why you dislike him, but the fact is he has given OKC something that they had not had for years now. Bench cohesion.

[bondom34]

Schroder on court with Westbrook and George has been a -3.8 net rating.

Westbrook/George without Schroder has been a +11.4

Schroder/George without Westbrook has been a -9.5.

He's currently at a .475 TS, with a TO% 2nd worst on the team for players who've played non-garbage minutes ahead of only Ferguson. He's likely the worst defender, and has been below average shooting everywhere except long midrange 2s.

What does any of this have to do with the fact that we now have a second unit that is coming in and acting like they know how to play in the NBA?
You can nit pick reasons all you like on why you dislike him, but the fact is he has given OKC something that they had not had for years now. Bench cohesion.

Because the second unit is still a convincing net negative? That's not nitpicking. It's literally he's bad.

[AirInTheLoop]

And they're paying Melo on the cap this year, so can't use that space you said they wanted.

.... again, it was for the removal of a long term contract and at the end of this season, before free agency, they will have that cap...... are you actually confused on this?

No, but I don't think you get that a $25M cap hit isn't exactly nothing when they paid the guy to go away. And literally couldn't pawn him onto another team. And his numbers are awful this year.

No i fully get it.
They are doing a complete rebuild, the first step of doing this is to get rid of the longer contracts on the team.

[bondom34]

.... again, it was for the removal of a long term contract and at the end of this season, before free agency, they will have that cap...... are you actually confused on this?

No, but I don't think you get that a $25M cap hit isn't exactly nothing when they paid the guy to go away. And literally couldn't pawn him onto another team. And his numbers are awful this year.

No i fully get it.
They are doing a complete rebuild, the first step of doing this is to get rid of the longer contracts on the team.

They still kept the other, more valuable ones. And couldn't get an asset for this one.

[AirInTheLoop]

No, but I don't think you get that a $25M cap hit isn't exactly nothing when they paid the guy to go away. And literally couldn't pawn him onto another team. And his numbers are awful this year.

No i fully get it.
They are doing a complete rebuild, the first step of doing this is to get rid of the longer contracts on the team.

They still kept the other, more valuable ones. And couldn't get an asset for this one.

They really didnt.
They have two players making above 6M a year who are signed for 2 seasons.
The rest are under 2 seasons (so 1) or under 6M a year.
And Bazemore is an option year..... i'd bet that they are trying to raise his value for a trade.

[bondom34]

No i fully get it.
They are doing a complete rebuild, the first step of doing this is to get rid of the longer contracts on the team.

They still kept the other, more valuable ones. And couldn't get an asset for this one.

They really didnt.
They have two players making above 6M a year who are signed for 2 seasons.
The rest are under 2 seasons (so 1) or under 6M a year.
And Bazemore is an option year..... i'd bet that they are trying to raise his value for a trade.

Because they couldn't get value for Schroder...

[AirInTheLoop]

They still kept the other, more valuable ones. And couldn't get an asset for this one.

They really didnt.
They have two players making above 6M a year who are signed for 2 seasons.
The rest are under 2 seasons (so 1) or under 6M a year.
And Bazemore is an option year..... i'd bet that they are trying to raise his value for a trade.

Because they couldn't get value for Schroder...

25M in cap is pretty valuable in the NBA.
But teams rarely get "value" for players, especially undersized PGs. look at all the PGs you said were better than him, and look at the values they got in trades.

[slick_watts]

No i fully get it.
They are doing a complete rebuild, the first step of doing this is to get rid of the longer contracts on the team.

They still kept the other, more valuable ones. And couldn't get an asset for this one.

They really didnt.
They have two players making above 6M a year who are signed for 2 seasons.
The rest are under 2 seasons (so 1) or under 6M a year.
And Bazemore is an option year..... i'd bet that they are trying to raise his value for a trade.

what's even the point of this? i dunno why bondom is continuing to engage you but doesn't engage me when i actually make sense (but he simply disagrees). you make no sense. the value of schroder's contract was established when he was traded for melo. irrespective of atlanta's intentions or motives, he was traded for dead salary and nobody would even take that contract on 'for free'. there's nothing more to discuss on that front. his contract is poor value and his standing league-wide is low relative to that contract.

his actual performance on the thunder is another matter which, in any case, requires more than eight games played to evaluate.

so remind me, what's the argument here again?

[bondom34]

They really didnt.
They have two players making above 6M a year who are signed for 2 seasons.
The rest are under 2 seasons (so 1) or under 6M a year.
And Bazemore is an option year..... i'd bet that they are trying to raise his value for a trade.

Because they couldn't get value for Schroder...

25M in cap is pretty valuable in the NBA.

25M in dead money is not.

And they didn't clear that, it's 15 next season.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/20/nba-draft-trade-rumors-2018-luka-doncic-hawks-grizzlies-mavericks

Atlanta has explored moving Schröder, but league sources say his off-court behavior and general attitude have made him harder to trade, despite the fact he’s entering his prime years at age 24.

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-deadline-atlanta-hawks-news-kent-bazemore-dennis-schroder-contract/n9jurx51gy0v1o5pbu2r58pgd

Beyond that? It’s hard to see the Hawks having much that can be moved. There has been surprisingly little interest in Dennis Schroder, who is only 24, works well in the pick-and-roll and is averaging 19.3 points and 6.4 assists. But Schroder has been a poor 3-point shooter (28.0 percent this year), and there is doubt among league executives that he can be a leader on a playoff team. He is owed $46.5 million over the next three seasons.

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Literally nobody wanted him. Or does now. He's a significantly negative asset who's been bad.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Where'd you find his usage percentage as a starter?
Not that it matters, this is a ridiculous conversation about something that does not matter. But i did look for it and could not find it.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/satorto01/splits/2018

[Kizz Fastfists]

No, his value was them clearing cap for a complete rebuild.
either way, call up Presti and tell him what a great idea you have and then tell me how it goes.

You don't cap space at the start of a rebuild. You want assets. You want cap space in year four or five of your rebuild, right when Schroder would have expired to use that money to enhance your young core before they get off their rookie contracts. In the specific case of Atlanta they want cap space in the 2021 off-season because that is when they need to extend Collins. They don't want cap space THIS off-season because they aren't ready to add a significant piece and they aren't good enough to attract that piece.

They just didn't want Schroder to poison Young and continue to be a locker room issue. They were so desperate to get rid of Schroder they paid Melo just to get rid of Schroder. If anyone would have actually offered them a 2nd round pick for Schroder without them having to shell out money they would have jumped on it. Instead they basically bought a highly protected pick, which will end up being 2nd round picks since OKC will be a lottery team before it would be a potential 1st.

Presti's goal is not to win a championship. It is to make the owners money and get stomped in the first round of the playoffs so you can try to convince stupid fans the team is still a contender. Fans who want OKC to win a championship want something completely different than what Presti wants at this point so he won't listen to them.

[thekaoswithin]

what's even the point of this? i dunno why bondom is continuing to engage you but doesn't engage me when i actually make sense

Zero self awareness.

[AirInTheLoop]

what's even the point of this? i dunno why bondom is continuing to engage you but doesn't engage me when i actually make sense (but he simply disagrees). you make no sense. the value of schroder's contract was established when he was traded for melo. irrespective of atlanta's intentions or motives, he was traded for dead salary and nobody would even take that contract on 'for free'. there's nothing more to discuss on that front. his contract is poor value and his standing league-wide is low relative to that contract.

Exactly, his value was established between OKC and ATL, how they viewed his value and it was 25M expiring. Which, i don't know how Bondom values cap space, but IMO that is a good value for both sides and for the player.

his actual performance on the thunder is another matter which, in any case, requires more than eight games played to evaluate.

Exactly.
And thus far, IMO, he has done a fairly good job of demonstrating that he can run our secondary and gives us something we've been missing for years.

so remind me, what's the argument here again?

I don't know.
People apparently decided to flip **** when i said the suggested trade involving Satoransky and Fournier was not worth what it looks like we'd be giving up.
I'd love to have Fournier, he's a solid shooting guard that would make a great fourth option.... but its not worth the cost.

[AirInTheLoop]

No, his value was them clearing cap for a complete rebuild.
either way, call up Presti and tell him what a great idea you have and then tell me how it goes.

You don't cap space at the start of a rebuild. You want assets. You want cap space in year four or five of your rebuild, right when Schroder would have expired to use that money to enhance your young core before they get off their rookie contracts. In the specific case of Atlanta they want cap space in the 2021 off-season because that is when they need to extend Collins. They don't want cap space THIS off-season because they aren't ready to add a significant piece and they aren't good enough to attract that piece.

I get the impression you guys just like arguing for the sake of it.
Yes, the removal of long term contracts is one of the first things a team starts doing when they rebuild. I don't know why you are so focused on the "needing cap space THIS season", its an irrelevant and inaccurate point to make or use as an attempted counter to the points made about this being something you do when you rebuild. At what point a team decides its going to start spending money on players, varies.

[slick_watts]

what's even the point of this? i dunno why bondom is continuing to engage you but doesn't engage me when i actually make sense

Zero self awareness.

wrong. i'm the most self aware of anyone. you can trust me, i'm an expert in self awareness.

[bondom34]

George Hill went 10-11 for 22 points tonight.