Jimmy Butler Traded to Philadelphia (Discussion Continued)

[Ayt]

Here's a somewhat non-biased, objective perspective. Saric is a beast. You guys will be happy for years with him. Taj is starting to decline, so you needed a 4. Covington is an elite defender, but overpaid because he was shooting lights out before inking that extension. You had to take the hit there in order to get a young Saric for prime Butler. Philly has a slight edge, especially since you essentially traded Markkanen, LaVine and Dunn for Saric and Covington, but Butler wanted out. All in all, I think Thibs got a decent return. Butler doesn't have many more elite years in the tank and the last couple of the supermax will be overpays

Covington is far from overpaid at 11.5M per year as one of the best defensive players in the league who also shoots 36%+ from three on high volume.

[KGdaBom]

Don't like this deal for the Wolves.
If we had two legit stars already and we were (to some extent) competing the return would be ok.

The PROS:
- the saga has come to an end
- Saric and RoCo are a good fit age wise
- both are useful players on good value contracts
- Wiggins switched back to SG

The CONS:
- not sure how the fit is, especially defensively. RoCo is a good defender while Saric isn't. Is he going to replace Taj short term and mid term?
- Starting 5 would only have one good defender.
- Saric might be expensive in 1,5 years
- no FR picks coming back, extremely short sighted move
- loss of Patton could haunt us big time eventually (we could have resigned Patton for the minimum instead)

The Patton's contract was not picked up by the Wolves. We didn't have his rights for the future. Next year if we want him we can sign him just like anybody else can.

[alabamawolf]

Don't like this deal for the Wolves.
If we had two legit stars already and we were (to some extent) competing the return would be ok.

The PROS:
- the saga has come to an end
- Saric and RoCo are a good fit age wise
- both are useful players on good value contracts
- Wiggins switched back to SG

The CONS:
- not sure how the fit is, especially defensively. RoCo is a good defender while Saric isn't. Is he going to replace Taj short term and mid term?
- Starting 5 would only have one good defender.
- Saric might be expensive in 1,5 years
- no FR picks coming back, extremely short sighted move
- loss of Patton could haunt us big time eventually (we could have resigned Patton for the minimum instead)

It’s likely Patton never sees meaningful minutes with his foot problems

[theGreatRC]

I'm glad Jimmy Butler is gone. Loved the player he was, he had charm to him, but he HAS to be the man. I'm curious to see how he's going to deal with being the second fiddle to Embiid.

KAT was on Butler's level offensively last season, but was more accepting to take a backseat to him. Joel Embiid is gonna say "**** that" and Jimmy's gonna have to deal with it.

I'm more excited about Saric than Covington because I think RoCo is what he is; a defensive player that's a streaky shooter so you can't rely on his to be consistent from 3 every single game.

Saric is having a slow start to the season, but he's a good passing big man that plays hard even if his defense isn't there. I think he and KAT will complement each other well.

I wish we could find a trade for Wiggs and let a defensive duo of Okogie/Covington go to work, but i'm curious to see how a Covington/Wiggins pairing does as well

People keep saying RoCo is a good defender. He is an ALL NBA DEFENDER. That is more than good. Last I checked he was second in the NBA in combined steals and blocks.

I didn't even say good defender. I actually didn't say he was bad, good, great, godly, whatever. I just said he was a defensive player

You gotta calm your RoCO boner down, he's been on the team for like 2 minutes

[AmitabhaBuddha]

Love it. No bad contracts. We traded 50 games of a malcontent butler for two youngish players with talent. I like this better than the Miami or Houston deals. We are much more flexible going forward.

Philly now has to deal with Butler and give him the big contract. Totally worth it for them as the east is open.

Hopefully Butler and Embid/Simmons get along. Seems like exactly the same situation he walked into here... I really am curious... will say something about KAT and Wiggs if it does. Will say a lot about Butler if it doesn’t.

[KGdaBom]

I'm glad Jimmy Butler is gone. Loved the player he was, he had charm to him, but he HAS to be the man. I'm curious to see how he's going to deal with being the second fiddle to Embiid.

KAT was on Butler's level offensively last season, but was more accepting to take a backseat to him. Joel Embiid is gonna say "**** that" and Jimmy's gonna have to deal with it.

I'm more excited about Saric than Covington because I think RoCo is what he is; a defensive player that's a streaky shooter so you can't rely on his to be consistent from 3 every single game.

Saric is having a slow start to the season, but he's a good passing big man that plays hard even if his defense isn't there. I think he and KAT will complement each other well.

I wish we could find a trade for Wiggs and let a defensive duo of Okogie/Covington go to work, but i'm curious to see how a Covington/Wiggins pairing does as well

People keep saying RoCo is a good defender. He is an ALL NBA DEFENDER. That is more than good. Last I checked he was second in the NBA in combined steals and blocks.

I didn't even say good defender. I actually didn't say he was bad, good, great, godly, whatever. I just said he was a defensive player

You gotta calm your RoCO boner down, he's been on the team for like 2 minutes

I know you didn't. Did I say you did? You said he was a defender without qualifying the level of defender he is. Why didn't you say great defender or all NBA Defender? Many others used the term good defender. I was replying to all of them as well as replying to you.
Also he hasn't been on our team for one minute yet. I think the earliest he will be on our team is Monday the way I hear it.

[AirP.]

Oh... you want to use hindsight. Gotcha!

Do I believe Teague/Rose, Wiggins, Covington, Saric/Gibson, Towns is better then Teague/Dunn, LaVine, Wiggins, Gibson, Towns, yes I do. People complete forget there's only 1 basketball on the court and defense comes into play also.

LaVine is a scorer on a bad team... I'd be ok with him as a scoring 6th man, not so much as a starter.

You also need to calculate in not being on year 15 of no playoffs.

The ceiling of this team has just dropped with this Butler trade, a good .500 or a little above .500 team is in the future for this franchise now.

No, I want to use reality and facts.

Could you answer my question with a yes or no, please?

The deal would be Lavine, Dunn, Markennen for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and a year of Jimmy Butler. Those are the facts

Actually the facts would be LaVine, #7, Dunn for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and #16, with a year of Butler tossed in(which hadn't happened this franchise would be on 15 years of no playoffs).

Taking the timing of when this stuff happened isn't reality, you could say that with any unknowns at the time, for instance, taking Shabazz right before Gianis was drafted or even drafting 2 PGs right before S.Curry.

[akeefe03]

What is wrong with having a ROCO BONER?!?!? We all should have boners.

[twix2500]

That's the biggest question for me now. Last season PHI was perfect pace and space team with shooters and Simmons as PG. Minnesota is nothing like this. I wish we play Rose 30 min every game but I am not sure if his body will hold up.

Rose is a good story, but expecting this to last is

Twix I love Richardson, but RoCo and Saric vs Richardson and Waiters is an incredible win for the Wolves.

I disagree whole heartily. Your are predicting Saric and RoCo play off of Simmons would translate the same to any team. I think their play will considerably drop off because now they will have to do more on their own without an elite distributor (Especially Roco). And dont get me wrong I understand the reputation of Waiters. I get it, I am not a big fan of Waiters myself. He is such and irratic player, similar to Vernon Maxwell was back in the day. But when healthy, what Waiters brings to the table compliments the Wolves roster just as he did the Heat when he was healthy. A big part of Hassan Whiteside success a few years ago was due to Waiters ball handling and play making ability. Richardson is better than RoCo and Saric. He has a bigger role and responsibility on the Heat than RoCo and Saric did for the 76ers. Teams game plan for JRich because he is the lead offensive guy on the Heat. Which is probably more than what he can handle. He is getting doubled and is struggling with the defense focusing on him. If Richardson played with Simmons and Embiid, he would average efficient 20 pts and elite D. Then you guys would of thought the world of him.

Im not against the Wolves getting Saric, but not getting a FRP in this deal oppose to the Heat FRP is a big miss. Regardless the Wolves are not making the playoffs with the Heat or this deal.

What has to happen to make this deal a success is that Saric becomes more of a player than what he has been in Philly. Can he show that he can create his own plays.

[KGdaBom]

What is wrong with having a ROCO BONER?!?!? We all should have boners.

Have some compassion. Some people aren't capable of boners.

[thenbaman]

you guys will love both those players hope butler works out for us,he won't get
with the stuff he pulled in minny with embiid.

[theGreatRC]

People keep saying RoCo is a good defender. He is an ALL NBA DEFENDER. That is more than good. Last I checked he was second in the NBA in combined steals and blocks.

I didn't even say good defender. I actually didn't say he was bad, good, great, godly, whatever. I just said he was a defensive player

You gotta calm your RoCO boner down, he's been on the team for like 2 minutes

I know you didn't. Did I say you did? You said he was a defender without qualifying the level of defender he is. Why didn't you say great defender or all NBA Defender? Many others used the term good defender. I was replying to all of them as well as replying to you.
Also he hasn't been on our team for one minute yet. I think the earliest he will be on our team is Monday the way I hear it.

I apologize, let me correct myself

I'm more excited about Saric than Covington because I think RoCo is what he is; an amazing, ALL-NBA, top tier, suffocating, the best 1 on 1 coverage in the galaxy defensive player that's a streaky shooter so you can't rely on his to be consistent from 3 every single game.

[KGdaBom]

Rose is a good story, but expecting this to last is

Twix I love Richardson, but RoCo and Saric vs Richardson and Waiters is an incredible win for the Wolves.

I disagree whole heartily. Your are predicting Saric and RoCo play off of Simmons would translate the same to any team. I think their play will considerably drop off because now they will have to do more on their own without an elite distributor (Especially Roco). And dont get me wrong I understand the reputation of Waiters. I get it, I am not a big fan of Waiters myself. He is such and irratic player, similar to Vernon Maxwell was back in the day. But when healthy, what Waiters brings to the table compliments the Wolves roster just as he did the Heat when he was healthy. A big part of Hassan Whiteside success a few years ago was due to Waiters ball handling and play making ability. Richardson is better than RoCo and Saric. He has a bigger role and responsibility on the Heat than RoCo and Saric did for the 76ers. Teams game plan for JRich because he is the lead offensive guy on the Heat. Which is probably more than what he can handle. He is getting doubled and is struggling with the defense focusing on him. If Richardson played with Simmons and Embiid, he would average efficient 20 pts and elite D. Then you guys would of thought the world of him.

Im not against the Wolves getting Saric, but not getting a FRP in this deal oppose to the Heat FRP is a big miss. Regardless the Wolves are not making the playoffs with the Heat or this deal.

What has to happen to make this deal a success is that Saric becomes more of a player than what he has been in Philly. Can he show that he can create his own plays.

Miami never offered a FRP. They offered a protected FRP that could have easily been nothing. Even if Richardson is better than RoCo and Saric combined which I don't think is true, adding Waiters to him makes the deal far worse.

[theGreatRC]

you guys will love both those players hope butler works out for us,he won't get
with the stuff he pulled in minny with embiid.

I think that's why Jimmy will work for you guys because Embiid will shut that **** down if Jimmy tries to take control of everything.

KAT was more than willing to let Jimmy be the man on offense even if KAT was on the same level as him offensively.

You'll love Jimmy the basketball player and I guess you'll love Jimmy the person if Philly gives him the max without hesitation. He says he's about winning, but you saw first hand how he acted in the media when he didn't get what he wanted

[KGdaBom]

I didn't even say good defender. I actually didn't say he was bad, good, great, godly, whatever. I just said he was a defensive player

You gotta calm your RoCO boner down, he's been on the team for like 2 minutes

I know you didn't. Did I say you did? You said he was a defender without qualifying the level of defender he is. Why didn't you say great defender or all NBA Defender? Many others used the term good defender. I was replying to all of them as well as replying to you.
Also he hasn't been on our team for one minute yet. I think the earliest he will be on our team is Monday the way I hear it.

I apologize, let me correct myself

I'm more excited about Saric than Covington because I think RoCo is what he is; an amazing, ALL-NBA, top tier, suffocating, the best 1 on 1 coverage in the galaxy defensive player that's a streaky shooter so you can't rely on his to be consistent from 3 every single game.

We're good.

[PharmD]

Think this was a good deal for both teams. Really saddened to lose guys like Covington and Saric. They’re both a little streaky, but when they’re on they’re awesome. Also great locker room guys who are easy to root for. Wish them well. You guys are lucky to have them.

Jimmy is the opposite. He's one of the very best players in the league but he's a terrible locker room guy and very hard to root for. His fans are also terrible. Still, you will wins lots of games.

[Neeva]

A top two of towns and zion with the third/fourth options wiggins and saric and Covington and Okogie as 5th/6th options sounds good to me!

[shrink]

loss of Patton could haunt us big time eventually (we could have resigned Patton for the minimum instead)

Nothing we did today prevents that, if that makes you feel any better.

[theGreatRC]

Think this was a good deal for both teams. Really saddened to lose guys like Covington and Saric. They’re both a little streaky, but when they’re on they’re awesome. Also great locker room guys who are easy to root for. Wish them well. You guys are lucky to have them.

Jimmy is the opposite. He's one of the very best players in the league but he's a terrible locker room guy and very hard to root for. His fans are also terrible. Still, you will wins lots of games.

I forgot about the few Jimmy Butler posters on this board. I'll miss AirP. though.

Wonder where Walk With Me went?

[Neeva]

They are thibs stans though not jimmy

They will stick around until thibs gets sacked

Think this was a good deal for both teams. Really saddened to lose guys like Covington and Saric. They’re both a little streaky, but when they’re on they’re awesome. Also great locker room guys who are easy to root for. Wish them well. You guys are lucky to have them.

Jimmy is the opposite. He's one of the very best players in the league but he's a terrible locker room guy and very hard to root for. His fans are also terrible. Still, you will wins lots of games.

I forgot about the few Jimmy Butler posters on this board. I'll miss AirP. though.

Wonder where Walk With Me went?