Jimmy Butler Traded to Philadelphia (Discussion Continued)

[sky4it]

Joel had a fracture but they took the long road. Patton has potential and Philly has a history of helping this. Simmons had a broken foot too.

I believe they will do better by him.

Embiid’s talent was clear, Patton is just what you said potential. There was never a question if Embiid would be good. But for a developing player like Patton who is mostly just potential missing 2 years of basketball and having multiple surgeries on both feet is not something you can just brush off. They are not equal. Not sure how Philly can do better by him. He literally broke his foot the first week he was in Minnesota.

Philly did fine. They gave you role players for a top 20 player.

Embiid was consider a possible bus but they let him heal. They are a better organization then you guys.

You got some value and hopefully Wiggins steps up. Still, you traded for role players. They do not have star potential.

Covington is a starter. Great defender, Wolves did just fine there.

[Jedzz]

Do the new boys play tomorrow?

Hard to believe it could happen that fast. But it would be cool.

The Trade call with the league and the physicals are tomorrow. The media has been saying Butler's debut will be Wednesday so I expect it to be the same here.

Sounds more reasonable. Even that seems tough to me. I couldn't fathom having to join a new team entirely and then have to go perform with new teammates that fast. Have to assume they will all, including Butler in Philly, look a little out of sorts at first.

[Klomp]

Do the new boys play tomorrow?

Hard to believe it could happen that fast. But it would be cool.

The Trade call with the league and the physicals are tomorrow. The media has been saying Butler's debut will be Wednesday so I expect it to be the same here.

Minor detail, but I believe it'd be easier for us to get them in tomorrow night than PHI playing Butler simply because we're playing at home. Do the teams ever conduct their physicals on the road? Maybe so, but I'd imagine that's why Butler won't play until Wednesday.

[shangrila]

Makes me wonder how the minutes shake out. Covington would start, surely, but Saric gets added to the Gibson/Tolliver/Dieng pile. I'd be amazed if Thibs played him over Taj and Tolliver/Dieng have more familiarity (and in Dieng's case, you need to try and bump up his value), but Saric's still the shiny new toy that the fans will need to see.

[Jedzz]

Makes me wonder how the minutes shake out. Covington would start, surely, but Saric gets added to the Gibson/Tolliver/Dieng pile. I'd be amazed if Thibs played him over Taj and Tolliver/Dieng have more familiarity (and in Dieng's case, you need to try and bump up his value), but Saric's still the shiny new toy that the fans will need to see.

I wonder at PF too. I guess that's what the rest of the season will be for. Figuring this all out.

Covington has a easy fit since Wiggins will probably want to eat up JImmys minutes/role now.

[Jedzz]

Excuse me for doing so, but I wanted to bring over something I read in the Philly board.

Kudos to Brand, saw this excerpt from an ESPN article:

"Through it all, the 76ers lurked. When Philadelphia principal owner Josh Harris talked with Taylor at the NBA's board of governors meeting in September, Taylor made it clear that he hoped the 76ers would become part of the trade process. Harris was eager to engage, but GM Elton Brand -- still new to the job -- intentionally resisted for weeks as the Timberwolves whiffed on unrealistic asks for Butler, including finding a third team for Gorgui Dieng and the three years, $48 million left on his contract."

So he pretty much called there bluff and sat on his hands and swooped in when things seemed to be peaking.

Sounds like the same thing Billy King did when we traded for Joe Smith

The segment about the Twolves trying to move Dieng in any of the trade discussions kind of bothers me. I realize Dieng's contract is an issue and others have spoken about trying to include him. As in this was known to be going on. But I wonder if they pushed for it too hard in most of the trade discussions.

I just wonder if it would have been easier and a more enriching move for this team had the started this process without trying to salary dump Dieng in the same deal from the start. They had already waited too long and Butler was making it public. Could it have been done better? I'm still fine with Saric and Rob and to be done with it.

[KGdaBom]

Hard to believe it could happen that fast. But it would be cool.

The Trade call with the league and the physicals are tomorrow. The media has been saying Butler's debut will be Wednesday so I expect it to be the same here.

Minor detail, but I believe it'd be easier for us to get them in tomorrow night than PHI playing Butler simply because we're playing at home. Do the teams ever conduct their physicals on the road? Maybe so, but I'd imagine that's why Butler won't play until Wednesday.

I have critical fantasy basketball decisions to be made based on whether RoCo plays tomorrow or not. I wish there was an answer. Couldn't the physicals have been done already?

[Maefteda]

My "tribute" video on Jimmy Butler picked up some steam on r/NBA and on YouTube, so I figured I could post it here:

Enjoy

Watch on YouTube

[KGdaBom]

This isn't a winning team though. If it were I wouldn't have the same argument.

And clearly you're fine with that. And some are fine with 13 years out of the playoffs because hey.....young players, draft picks, cap space, POTENTIAL!

I'm sick of that. I've come to realize that only one team wins the NBA title each season, but there is more than one successful franchise in the league every year. As much as I want an NBA title, that doesn't define success to me. I do know that giving up because "we won't compete for 3 years" is a defeatist attitude and is pretty close to defining failure for me.

Awesome post Klomp. You ever think about being a moderator? I think you could do a great job.

[KGdaBom]

I'm still disappointed with the trade. These guys look like decent pieces but they wont move the needle. They are probably good enough to keep us decently competitive, so this will probably be a treadmill season, we will hover a handful of games below .500 and finish like 10-12 pick wise. I hate tanking with a passion but we probably need to get a top 5 pick. I dont know what we can do beyond drafting to get into top 4 contendership in the next season or two.

The reality is Butler, and maybe Thibs depending on how he handled thing behind the scenes, have really screwed us badly. We are in no mans land. The same place we have been in much of the Love era. No obvious upside but not awful enough to get great draft picks.

Like Love, I'm not going to hate on Butler for letting it be known what he was going to do, and apparently he did immediately after last season.

Compare that to someone like Aldridge-Por, Hayward-Utah, Durant-OKC

This scenario happened because Thibs believed "winning cures all" and Butler would change his mind

I'm not hating on Butler for requesting a trade. I am hating on him for making an unbelievable A$$ of himself when we didn't meet his request within a few weeks. I used to love him, but he proved himself to be a POS.

[KGdaBom]

I like the trade. sick of listening to Butler talk about how its all about the winning but he didnt give 2 **** about tearing the team chemistry apart when the season started.

When he says winning he's talking about competing, like giving effort like you care about winning or losing. Embiid and Simmons care way more about that then Towns and Wiggins do.

I do wonder how long it'll be before you're tired of Minnesota losing. 1 playoff appearance in the last 15 years, wouldn't doubt it ends up being 1 playoff appearance in 2 decades.

You may be right AirP and I was with you defending Jimmy and Thibodeau. However, after the BS that jimmy pulled he has proven to me that he is a POS. I'm glad the Wolves got my dream deal for him.

[KGdaBom]

Nobody should be worried about middling.... most of the nbas top players, top up and coming players, or solid rotational players are a result of middling


Giannis, Jokic, Kuzma, josh hart, okogi, Mitchell, booker, Capella, Gary Harris, nurkic, paskal Siakam, OG anunoby, Dejounte Murray, bobby portis, Montrez herrel josh Richardson prove that flat out tanking isn’t fully necessary.

It also proves the Houston picks could have been pretty valuable. While also adding high lottery talent around KAT and company.

Middling is not smart and frankly the worst thing you can do.

Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk

The Houston picks would have been protected and we may have never got them. If we had got them they would have been lower picks not nearly as good as Saric and RoCo.

[younggunsmn]

Kinda disappointed that we couldnt snag a single decent draft pick. I didnt expect a 1st with both Cov and Saric, but
Philly owns 4 2nds from bottom dwelling teams in the 2019 and 2020 drafts. We threw in Patton and couldnt snag a single one?

I'm surprised it was both Covington and Saric. Thought it would be one or the other plus better picks. Not surprised Thibs/Layden went for win now pieces over future assets.

I'm very disappointed we declined Patton's option and then traded him. You dont do that when a kid has that kind of potential unless the injury is bad enough that it looks like he's finished. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still would have had RFA matching rights on him even after declining his option. Patton was added solely to avoid the luxury tax because otherwise it would have pushed us slightly over. There would be better options down the road to mitigate that like buying out/strectching taj/bayless later in the year.

I don't know what world Thibs is living in that he thinks we can compete this year. West is loaded, teams like Memphis/Clippers are healthy and much better, we are most likely competing with Dallas for 2nd worst in the west.

Saric and Covington are good role players, but we are going to need an elite PG/2nd ballhandler to make it all work. Best place to find that is going to be in the draft.

We waited way too long to deal Butler and paid the price. I wonder what we could have got in July.

Interesting for Philly that it leaves them with a hole at the 4. Does SImmons defend 4's now and run the point on the other end?

[Neeva]

Thibs is just trying to save his coaching career he’s not thinking about whats best longterm for the franchise.

[Domejandro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still would have had RFA matching rights on him even after declining his option.

Nope, worse yet, we would have been capped at 2.6 million as the maximum we could offer in Free-Agency (not that he would have gotten that). I jumped on the Patton bandwagon pretty early on, but it is time to move-on after all of his injuries.

[KGdaBom]

Kinda disappointed that we couldnt snag a single decent draft pick. I didnt expect a 1st with both Cov and Saric, but
Philly owns 4 2nds from bottom dwelling teams in the 2019 and 2020 drafts. We threw in Patton and couldnt snag a single one?

I'm surprised it was both Covington and Saric. Thought it would be one or the other plus better picks. Not surprised Thibs/Layden went for win now pieces over future assets.

I'm very disappointed we declined Patton's option and then traded him. You dont do that when a kid has that kind of potential unless the injury is bad enough that it looks like he's finished. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still would have had RFA matching rights on him even after declining his option. Patton was added solely to avoid the luxury tax because otherwise it would have pushed us slightly over. There would be better options down the road to mitigate that like buying out/strectching taj/bayless later in the year.

I don't know what world Thibs is living in that he thinks we can compete this year. West is loaded, teams like Memphis/Clippers are healthy and much better, we are most likely competing with Dallas for 2nd worst in the west.

Saric and Covington are good role players, but we are going to need an elite PG/2nd ballhandler to make it all work. Best place to find that is going to be in the draft.

We waited way too long to deal Butler and paid the price. I wonder what we could have got in July.

Interesting for Philly that it leaves them with a hole at the 4. Does SImmons defend 4's now and run the point on the other end?

We got two very good players ranked as the 48 and 54th best players in the league. They are 24 and 27 years old. That makes this trade both for now and the future. This is the trade I was promoting from almost day one. I'm thrilled to get those two. I thought it was just a dream.

[Domejandro]

My "tribute" video on Jimmy Butler picked up some steam on r/NBA and on YouTube, so I figured I could post it here:

Enjoy

Watch on YouTube

Exquisite work.

[Murphs56]

The Trade call with the league and the physicals are tomorrow. The media has been saying Butler's debut will be Wednesday so I expect it to be the same here.

Minor detail, but I believe it'd be easier for us to get them in tomorrow night than PHI playing Butler simply because we're playing at home. Do the teams ever conduct their physicals on the road? Maybe so, but I'd imagine that's why Butler won't play until Wednesday.

I have critical fantasy basketball decisions to be made based on whether RoCo plays tomorrow or not. I wish there was an answer. Couldn't the physicals have been done already?

Even if they were, I find it hard to believe they'll play tomorrow without one practice under their belts. Tomorrow's game is going to be rough. Already down Teague, possibly down Wiggins. I expect some CJ Williams greatness for sure.

[AirP.]

You may be right AirP and I was with you defending Jimmy and Thibodeau. However, after the BS that jimmy pulled he has proven to me that he is a POS. I'm glad the Wolves got my dream deal for him.

It was BS but I also have 2 questions that may never be answered.
1. Why did Butler want out so bad?
2. Why did it get as far as it did.

#2 I believe it got as far as it did because Thibs thought whatever #1 was, it would work itself out and the extra money Minnesota could give Butler would be a big enough incentive, he was wrong which brings us right back to why was it so #)($#)(#$ important for Butler to get out of Minnesota. It's got to be more then just money because it sounds like Taylor was open to paying Butler. If it's as simple as Butler didn't see a bright future with Towns and Wiggins because of their lack of caring if they won or lost, that's a huge problem for Minnesota in the long run. I look at someone like D.Mitchell and see him injured in the playoffs last year as a rookie, upset he's out of the game and willing to go back in while in pain to help his team. I don't see anything like that in Towns or Wiggins. Wiggins is just laid back, which can be fine as a 3rd wheel, but not as a max player and Towns, he's skilled enough but he's not mentally ready to be a winner in the NBA.

It sucks for the Minnesota fanbase, I don't know how you acquire another great talent to the team other then getting really lucky in the draft.

[Murphs56]

Makes me wonder how the minutes shake out. Covington would start, surely, but Saric gets added to the Gibson/Tolliver/Dieng pile. I'd be amazed if Thibs played him over Taj and Tolliver/Dieng have more familiarity (and in Dieng's case, you need to try and bump up his value), but Saric's still the shiny new toy that the fans will need to see.

Saric should be the starter. Taj is good but Saric is just a better player at this stage. Tolliver should be out of the rotation unless they move Dieng.