Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[Dat2U]

This is now my litmus test for whether a poster understands basketball.

Otto was our best player last year & our best player in 2016-17 as well. He's had a down start to the season. Then again, so has Beal -- although yes he's been a little more productive than Otto this year.

Emphasis on "a little." We are 3-9 -- just how good do you think anyone has been?

Its like you didnt read the rest of my post or something.

16-17 Otto was great but that player is vapor now. He's a ghost. 13 games in and he's done nothing. Not in our losses and not in our few wins. He is probably the second worst defender in the starting lineup, maybe even the worst, when he used to be one of the best. Is he injured? Then he should rest. Is it the coaching system or something else? Then we should move him now because lord knows Brooks isnt going to make any adjustments or change anything, and we're stuck with Brooks.

And Porter's usage is back down to 15%. His minutes are down to 28 per game as well.

Remember last year when he would be the focus of the second unit. Now that is Rivers/Green.

So, it's the coach and the system - IMO. So, yes. Move him and Satoransky as well... Thinking that the Spurs would take them but they don't have the assets. Where is Millie anyway - we won two.

Okay, Sacramento - we would still get 7th or 8th this season (give how bad the east is and Shumpert would actually be a better fit with Rivers, and then reset next year with cap space take of about $73M):
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya7zvfuc

Guess we could add Frank Mason as well... but he wouldn't play, just saying. So probably Jackson instead of Mason...

Sacramento doesnt have its 2019 pick.

They have nothing else I'd be remotely interested in for Otto.

Jackson is trash and basically unplayable. Mason is a dime a dozen 5th gusrd.

[Illmatic12]

This is now my litmus test for whether a poster understands basketball.

Otto was our best player last year & our best player in 2016-17 as well. He's had a down start to the season. Then again, so has Beal -- although yes he's been a little more productive than Otto this year.

Emphasis on "a little." We are 3-9 -- just how good do you think anyone has been?

Its like you didnt read the rest of my post or something.

16-17 Otto was great but that player is vapor now. He's a ghost. 13 games in and he's done nothing. Not in our losses and not in our few wins. He is probably the second worst defender in the starting lineup, maybe even the worst, when he used to be one of the best. Is he injured? Then he should rest. Is it the coaching system or something else? Then we should move him now because lord knows Brooks isnt going to make any adjustments or change anything, and we're stuck with Brooks.

And Porter's usage is back down to 15%. His minutes are down to 28 per game as well.

Remember last year when he would be the focus of the second unit. Now that is Rivers/Green.

So, it's the coach and the system - IMO. So, yes. Move him and Satoransky as well... Thinking that the Spurs would take them but they don't have the assets. Where is Millie anyway - we won two.

Okay, Sacramento - we would still get 7th or 8th this season (give how bad the east is and Shumpert would actually be a better fit with Rivers, and then reset next year with cap space take of about $73M):
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya7zvfuc

Guess we could add Frank Mason as well... but he wouldn't play, just saying. So probably Jackson instead of Mason...

What makes you think the Spurs would take Porter?
Pop is too smart to pay $30 mil a year for Otto's production when he could find a guy off the scrap heap and develop him into 75% of what Otto does..

[dckingsfan]

↑↑↑↑↑

Yes, SA doesn't do the deal... but they might be interested in two high IQ players.

And no, the Kings wouldn't be giving up any picks. This allows us to move Mahimni, Porter and Sato and save lots of $$s. And might actually make us better for this year (as Sato and Porter are clearly out of favor). This is a straight salary dump to open up the possibilities for next year.

[nate33]

I will drive Kieff to the airport or right down 95 if the Sixers want him as a stretch four replacement. Is a Philly guy so bye.

http://bleacherreport.com/post/washington-wizards/996822ce-0afa-48d1-8282-d16b8e42f936

That'd be fantastic, but what do they have left to send back? I like Korkmaz

Morris straight up for Mike Muscala works in the trade checker. The Wizards would save $3.6M in salary (pro-rated, so more like $3.0M) plus $9.9M in luxtax costs.

Muscala's contract expires this summer.

[payitforward]

Nate, As bad as Rivers is McLemore is FAR worse. ...

Not really. He's terrible, to be sure, but so is Rivers.

Last year, Rivers' best year, he was awful -- but, it's true that he was a bit better than McLemore.

This year, Rivers has been much much worse than last year, & McLemore has only played 24 minutes, meaning there's no way to compare.

On their careers, however, they are virtually identically bad. Rivers scores 1 more point per 40 minutes, but it takes him @1.2 more possessions to do it, so that McLemore has a higher TS% & the edge in scoring, though of course they are both way way below average. OTOH, Rivers is slightly less awful than McLemore in the rest of the counting stuff.

In short, performance-wise there's really nothing to choose between these two guys. Neither of them should ever get a minute of NBA floor time.

OTOH, Rivers' family tree has resulted in a salary of $12.5m as against McLemore's $5.45m. So, if you absolutely had to choose between them, you'd be wiser to choose McLemore over Rivers.

[nate33]

I don't understand why some of you are picking this moment to shop Porter. Porter didn't suddenly become a lousy player. He is probably dealing with an injury. Wait until he recovers, he'll be back to the way he played the past 2 years. And that guy is really good.

[payitforward]

...16-17 Otto was great but that player is vapor now. He's a ghost. 13 games in and he's done nothing. Not in our losses and not in our few wins. He is probably the second worst defender in the starting lineup, maybe even the worst, when he used to be one of the best. Is he injured? Then he should rest. Is it the coaching system or something else? Then we should move him now because lord knows Brooks isnt going to make any adjustments or change anything, and we're stuck with Brooks.

What makes you think the Spurs would take Porter?
Pop is too smart to pay $30 mil a year for Otto's production when he could find a guy off the scrap heap and develop him into 75% of what Otto does..

Like I say, this is my litmus test right now.

I can't wait to see the way people forget the stuff they wrote as soon as Porter returns to his mean. Which, btw, he is already doing (despite basically never seeing the ball).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't understand why some of you are picking this moment to shop Porter. Porter didn't suddenly become a lousy player. He is probably dealing with an injury. Wait until he recovers, he'll be back to the way he played the past 2 years. And that guy is really good.

I wish I could say they are dumb in a nice way.

Brooks is why Porter is down at the moment. Porter is better than Beal when given opportunity.

Instead of trading Porter it would be much better to move Mahinmi and Morris. Trading Oubre for another rookie deal player might not be bad as the Wizards are over the cap.

[Illmatic12]

I don't understand why some of you are picking this moment to shop Porter. Porter didn't suddenly become a lousy player. He is probably dealing with an injury. Wait until he recovers, he'll be back to the way he played the past 2 years. And that guy is really good.

Seems like Porter is always dealing with some sort of injury .. maybe he should take cues from Beal on how to take care of his body so he can live up to his contract.

[nate33]

I don't understand why some of you are picking this moment to shop Porter. Porter didn't suddenly become a lousy player. He is probably dealing with an injury. Wait until he recovers, he'll be back to the way he played the past 2 years. And that guy is really good.

Seems like Porter is always dealing with some sort of injury .. maybe he should take cues from Beal on how to take care of his body so he can live up to his contract.

This may be true. But nevertheless, now is not the time to trade him.

[Dark Faze]

I don't think there's much of a market for him. Tanking teams with salary can afford to pay him, which is why the Nets forced us to max him, but that same team wouldn't be willing to trade young assets or what will be a high lottery pick for him. Middling teams will give you salary filler and a late first. Championship contenders can't afford to lose the depth that matching the salary would take.

Blowing it up completely remains ideal. Even under a scenario where we get super lucky and move Wall for expirings and then land the #1 pick in Barrett, Sato/Beal/Barrett/Porter/Dwight is still a bad team, and it's been proven we can't bring in good free agents even if we get under the cap.

It's best if Otto remains the last man standing in our blowup/tank. Beal will recoup an early first pretty much immediately. First option Otto gets all the time he needs to maybe boost his value enough to maybe be moved for a middling first or maybe better down the road.

[youngWizzy]

I'd give it a 75% shot that Porter won't be a Wizards by the end of the season. Not that I want this but all signs are pointing to this.

This might have been mentioned before but I'll say it again.

Otto Porter has not played a single minute in the 4th quarter for three straight games. Zero

If you haven't seen the games just look at the play-by-play. This isn't a joke.

Brooks has chosen to use Oubre and Rivers in his place. This is going to be a theme throughout the season. I'm sure Ernie does have some sense that if his highest paid player isn't seeing the court at all in the 4th quarter, then he isn't serving much of a purpose when it matters the most.

Brooks for sure likes Oubre and Rivers far more than Porter and that will not ever change.

[nate33]

I'd give it a 75% shot that Porter won't be a Wizards by the end of the season. Not that I want this but all signs are pointing to this.

This might have been mentioned before but I'll say it again.

Otto Porter has not played a single minute in the 4th quarter for three straight games. Zero

If you haven't seen the games just look at the play-by-play. This isn't a joke.

Brooks has chosen to use Oubre and Rivers in his place. This is going to be a theme throughout the season. I'm sure Ernie does have some sense that if his highest paid player isn't seeing the court at all in the 4th quarter, then he isn't serving much of a purpose when it matters the most.

Brooks for sure likes Oubre and Rivers far more than Porter and that will not ever change.

Nope. Otto isn't going to get traded. If nothing else, he won't be traded for the reasons Dark Faze outlined. There isn't a market for him.

[youngWizzy]

I'd give it a 75% shot that Porter won't be a Wizards by the end of the season. Not that I want this but all signs are pointing to this.

This might have been mentioned before but I'll say it again.

Otto Porter has not played a single minute in the 4th quarter for three straight games. Zero

If you haven't seen the games just look at the play-by-play. This isn't a joke.

Brooks has chosen to use Oubre and Rivers in his place. This is going to be a theme throughout the season. I'm sure Ernie does have some sense that if his highest paid player isn't seeing the court at all in the 4th quarter, then he isn't serving much of a purpose when it matters the most.

Brooks for sure likes Oubre and Rivers far more than Porter and that will not ever change.

Nope. Otto isn't going to get traded. If nothing else, he won't be traded for the reasons Dark Faze outlined. There isn't a market for him.

I can still see Ernie trading with a middling team as previously mentioned. "Middling teams will give you salary filler and a late first." How highly does Ernie value Porter? That alone might be enough for Ernie to pull the trigger.

[Dark Faze]

I can still see Ernie trading with a middling team as previously mentioned. "Middling teams will give you salary filler and a late first." How highly does Ernie value Porter? That alone might be enough for Ernie to pull the trigger.

Yea, I'd hope to say that it's really not true, but the minute allocation is definitely suggestive of it. I feel like there's something going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of. Like a low key trade request from Otto or something. Because even as timid as Otto is personality wise, what's been done should have gone past even his breaking point by now.

[dangermouse]

If Draymond becomes available (they'd be stupid to go there, but if the rift between Durant and Green becomes a serious issue I think anything is possible - obviously they try and resolve the issue first but who knows with Dray)...

Porter + Morris for Dray + Iggy. That would absolutely right this ship.

[Dat2U]

↑↑↑↑↑

Yes, SA doesn't do the deal... but they might be interested in two high IQ players.

And no, the Kings wouldn't be giving up any picks. This allows us to move Mahimni, Porter and Sato and save lots of $$s. And might actually make us better for this year (as Sato and Porter are clearly out of favor). This is a straight salary dump to open up the possibilities for next year.

I'm no where near the point of a straight salary dump for a 25 yr old above average SF who's struggling at the moment.

If I can't get a quality asset for Porter then why deal him to simply get him off the roster? So we can save money that we'll inevitably spend poorly elsewhere? Easy pass for me.

[TGW]

Read on Twitter

[owneroz]

Well no Butler, Beal stays.

[gambitx777]

Wall to the Jazz for rubio, grayson allen, and tony bradley, maybe a second
Makes sense or them, they are not a big market they get a all star locked in for years in a position of need and they are not losing anything right now. this trade makes them better, <wall is worlds better than rubio, and bradley and allen are not cracking that line up right now or doing anything that the team will miss.
then do
Porter to the kings, for randolph, maclemore, giles, and skal. Randolph and maclemore don't play, Skal is healthy and out of the rotation, and giles is barely playing for the team.
Use that second to move mahinmi if possible and cut that contract that we get in return. Cut randolph, MaClemore, Jason Smith, and Morris.
Eat that money move alone.
Rubio/rivers/Sato
Beal/Allen/Mcrae
Obure/Brown/Robinson
Giles/Skal/Green
Howard/bradley/Bryant
You have mahinmi if you can't get rid of him but You should be able too.
Thats a cheap young team without cap issues, we can resign every one we want too and have some room to go out next off season. Go all in on beal as the leader of the team.

The Jazz have always been a prudent, cost-conscious team. I don't see them swapping Rubio for Wall. I'm also not thrilled with the return on the deal for us. Instead of a solid player like Rubio returned in a Wall trade, I want crappy players and a pick. That way, we would tank this year and earn ourselves a high lotto pick as well. I might still do your deal, but I really like my Phoenix trade (where we get Ryan Anderson and a pick) better.

I wouldn't try to dump Porter right now. With Wall gone, there is no pressure to unload additional salary. We'd have all the luxtax room we need to retain anyone we want. All dumping Porter would do is give us a small amount of cap room in a year when there is way too much money chasing not enough talent. Besides, trading Porter right now would be selling low. The Porter of the last two seasons was a very good player and arguably worth that contract (or at least close to it). I'd at least wait until Porter gets over whatever injury is bothering him before shopping him.

Mahinmi is still unmovable unless we attach a 1st round pick to him. With Wall gone, moving him is no longer necessary. I'd just ride out that contract. I'm not interested in the free agency market in 2019 anyhow. Better to wait until 2020 (which is why I'd advocate trading Wall for Ryan Anderson's contract, which also expires in 2020).

I feel like the jazz are going to hit that moment of, ok we have this super great young big man and they have to make a move or don't. I feel like making a move for a wall like guy would be a good move for them.

Also i don't really want to tank. Wall is not going to get a bunch of picks, look what jimmy butler went for. We would get two young players and a 1 year deal, and all the cap relief in the world. that's about what wall with his contract is worth.

I would rather sell low on porter. and get two young bigs and some cap relief. Because at the end of the day I think Beal is the dude to keep, and if we treat howard right he might stick around, he's still got game and he's way cheaper than his skill set goes for now because of his rep.

I still don't think mahinmi is unmovable. IMO i could be wrong. his deal is worth something next year and a team might be willing to take a second for that.