GT#14: Nets @ Timberwolves - Monday, 11/12/18, 8:00pm EST

[Prokorov]

You are overrating everyone else. How did they look after he went down? This team has never looked that good without him on the floor in some way, shape or form.

"never looked that good without him" just is not accurate. he has been our best player, we are obviously better with him on the floor. but to say we never look good without him is just flat out wrong. And the stats bear that out. you can use 1/2 of 1 basketball game to conclude that but thats an insanely small sample and you also need to factor in the guys were not going to be very good with their minds on what just happened.

- Joe was off tonight. He’s coming back down to his percentages.

Joe was off before levert got hurt... and yes no one expected him to shoot 60% from three all season. he was coming back to earth with or without levert

- Dinwiddie is going to be less efficient.

Pure speculation. if you look at lineups/on/off spencer has been about the same in lineups with and without levert. Dinwiddie took a big step last year and was considered an MIP candidate, why cant he take another step this year in a big contract year?

- DLo is averaging the same stats as last season.

This is just flat out wrong.

PPG: 16.8 this year vs. 15.5 last year
3PT: 40.4% this year vs 32.4 last year(on even more volume then last year)
TOV: 2.2 this year vs. 3.2 last year

Per is up, TS% is up, oRTG is up, BPM is up and everything else is inline with last year. So no, Russel certainly is NOT averaging the same stats as last year.... and in fact the 2 biggest criticism of him (shooting and turnovers) he has made huge improvements so far

Our improvement stems from the internal growth of Caris, Allen and hot shooting. The reality is Joe is going to come down from his historic efficiency, Crabbe sucks, RHJ isn’t nearly as effective offensively as last season and we just lost LeVert.

This is WAY over the top... of course leverts improvement played a big part. but you are overstating it... also while joe will come down towards his averages, that will offset by Crabbe going up to his. Crabbe is shooting 27% from three. even if he set a new career low he would be at 35%. you cant just say "harris will come back down" but then ignore crabbes slump and assume that will be a year long slump because "he sucks".

This reads as an obiturary... this is a set back, and really heartbreaking but its not a murder scene.

[Prokorov]

And the last point is another depressing aspect. Aside from his fantastic shooting from downtown...Russell's stats have plateaued. His turnovers are down and he's lights out from 3, which is great and you hope that trend will continue but his efficiency is still pretty bad overall and the scoring is inconsistent.

Again, this just isnt true. his points are up while his FGA are down. his efficiency is up across the board. The only thing that has really stayed the same is his assists and FT rate. and if you can keep your assists the same while cutting your turnovers by 1/3 to me that is progress. Leverts PER was 18.8, Russell 18.1. obviously levert having a better year with better scoring efficiency but Russell also has improved across the board there.

Russell needs props, especially lately with his tunovers, 1.3 a game over the last 8 games

[Prokorov]

Prok you're my dude man but you are literally the only person on earth who would deny that LeVert has been the best player on this team this season. I really don't get how you're going to downplay him like that.

MDB, you are my boy too...

I never denied levert was out best player, in fact i said several times he has been. This isnt a knock on levert, its a defense of the rest of our team - alot of other guys have stepped up their game and shown improvement (Allen, Dinwiddie, Harris, Dlo) that are really getting crapped on as if they havent contributed a ton. all 4 of those guys probably deserve credit for a win each this year.

People are taking me saying the levert was playing very good but not like a superstar as some knock. if he was posting like an oladipo-esque 24/7/5 with elite defense then yea thats real tough to replace... but 19/4/3 with solid defense, maybe you dont replace it but you can probably collectively piece together something close if guys step up and the imrpvoement from others is consistent.

Dinwiddie has been very efficient, but lets see how long that lasts with higher usage and teams keying in on him to take away his drives to the rim. And then there is the issue of his hero balling...I don't even remotely view how Spencer has played to be anywhere near what LeVert was doing. He was making a significant leap.

Hard to speculate.. you could speculate the same on levert re: usage and teams keying on him. his last few games he had some rough nights. hard to say with guys 23-26 years old

You're the one calling players useless career losers and dumping on the team, not me. You were the one who consistently called LeVert a career bench player. That's probably why you're nonchalant about the whole thing, because he was proving you wrong.

he was proving me wrong. it doesnt mean he was an irreplaceable superstar though. im wrong all the time... and you should know first hand im always willing to admit when that happens. im wrong on levert, he is more then a super 6th man... but he hasnt hit oladipo type territory yet.

[Prokorov]

I'm really shocked at Proks behavior here. This is completely out of character for him.

/s

Is it really? He downplays our own talent in the GB and other team’s game thread all the time. Nothing new here. He’s a closet Celtics fan.

closet celtic fan but who pays for league pass to watch the nets, records every game, posts in every thread, has season tickets, etc, etc, etc..

just ecause im nto an over the top homer who doesnt mean im not a fan.... its dunny im "not a fan" when i say a guy is good and not a superstar but when people wanted levert cut/benched after a slow start last year i was defending him. same with RHJ. same with Russell.

People here tend to get real black and white. just cause one of our young guys plays really well doesnt mean he is a superstar. lots of talent in this league. similar to when people said dinwiddie was robbed for MIP or that Allen got robbed on all-rookie votes. those guys are good but just because we havent had good young talent in a while doesnt make them stars

[MrDollarBills]

And the last point is another depressing aspect. Aside from his fantastic shooting from downtown...Russell's stats have plateaued. His turnovers are down and he's lights out from 3, which is great and you hope that trend will continue but his efficiency is still pretty bad overall and the scoring is inconsistent.

Again, this just isnt true. his points are up while his FGA are down. his efficiency is up across the board. The only thing that has really stayed the same is his assists and FT rate. and if you can keep your assists the same while cutting your turnovers by 1/3 to me that is progress. Leverts PER was 18.8, Russell 18.1. obviously levert having a better year with better scoring efficiency but Russell also has improved across the board there.

Russell needs props, especially lately with his tunovers, 1.3 a game over the last 8 games

His overall FG% is 41%, TS% 53%. His 3point shooting is at 40%, FTs relatively around his career % (he needs to improve that). I love the 3 point efficiency and the cutting down on turnovers. Solid improvement.

However, a 1 ppg increase on his 15ppg which he's been averaging for the last 2 seasons seems to fall back on his inconsistency scoring wise. If this guy is going to command north of 12 million dollars we need to see some significant improvement on his night to night consistency.

[MrDollarBills]

Prok you're my dude man but you are literally the only person on earth who would deny that LeVert has been the best player on this team this season. I really don't get how you're going to downplay him like that.

MDB, you are my boy too...

I never denied levert was out best player, in fact i said several times he has been. This isnt a knock on levert, its a defense of the rest of our team - alot of other guys have stepped up their game and shown improvement (Allen, Dinwiddie, Harris, Dlo) that are really getting crapped on as if they havent contributed a ton. all 4 of those guys probably deserve credit for a win each this year.

People are taking me saying the levert was playing very good but not like a superstar as some knock. if he was posting like an oladipo-esque 24/7/5 with elite defense then yea thats real tough to replace... but 19/4/3 with solid defense, maybe you dont replace it but you can probably collectively piece together something close if guys step up and the imrpvoement from others is consistent.

Dinwiddie has been very efficient, but lets see how long that lasts with higher usage and teams keying in on him to take away his drives to the rim. And then there is the issue of his hero balling...I don't even remotely view how Spencer has played to be anywhere near what LeVert was doing. He was making a significant leap.

Hard to speculate.. you could speculate the same on levert re: usage and teams keying on him. his last few games he had some rough nights. hard to say with guys 23-26 years old

You're the one calling players useless career losers and dumping on the team, not me. You were the one who consistently called LeVert a career bench player. That's probably why you're nonchalant about the whole thing, because he was proving you wrong.

he was proving me wrong. it doesnt mean he was an irreplaceable superstar though. im wrong all the time... and you should know first hand im always willing to admit when that happens. im wrong on levert, he is more then a super 6th man... but he hasnt hit oladipo type territory yet.

And unfortunately we'll have to wait til next year to see if he can hit that Oladipo stride. I felt like even when he had a rough night he would bounce back. That's the sign of a consistent player, my one huge knock on LeVert all offseason was that he was wildly inconsistent. This season he was on the ball and unfortunately he's been robbed of seeing just how far he could have taken it this year.

By the way, I wasn't calling LeVert a super star or even an all star. It's November. But he was definitely on the rise before being derailed. Most Improved Player would not be out of the question had he not been injured.

[MrDollarBills]

Well the doom and gloom is over

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

The Alpha Dog is alright

[MGrand15]

I'm really shocked at Proks behavior here. This is completely out of character for him.

/s

Is it really? He downplays our own talent in the GB and other team’s game thread all the time. Nothing new here. He’s a closet Celtics fan.

/s is a sarcasm tag.

This is nothing new at all.

Although it's funny how he downplays our talent all year but now that fans are saying we're gonna miss LeVert, he's over here bigging up our non-LeVert talent. Really impressive stuff.

[shakendfries]

Well the doom and gloom is over

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

The Alpha Dog is alright

...I pray Marks takes more caution with this than San Antonio did with Kawhi

this is amazing news

[gigantes]

...I pray Marks takes more caution with this than San Antonio did with Kawhi

this is amazing news

Not sure what you mean by that.

AFAIK Kawhi insisted on multiple doctors' opinions and following their advice in preference to the Spurs' doctors' advice. That whole situation was frustrating / confusing, but San Antonio has nothing to blame themselves for. Kawhi, OTOH.....

[Papi_swav]

I'm really shocked at Proks behavior here. This is completely out of character for him.

/s

Is it really? He downplays our own talent in the GB and other team’s game thread all the time. Nothing new here. He’s a closet Celtics fan.

Yea I really dont get why he does this, he's always hard on Levert. I can't believe he's saying Dinwiddie can do what he did lol. But then again Prok just stat watches and looks at analytics, I'm 100% sure he doesn't watch the games like that, I've been calling him out for Years about this on this board. He's my guy and makes some good points but I just don't get his hate for Levert, it really doesn't make any sense. And to say, "oh he's not no Clyde Drexler or LeBron so where not loosing much of a player anyway" is a complete slap in the face.

[TheNetsFan]

I'm really shocked at Proks behavior here. This is completely out of character for him.

/s

Is it really? He downplays our own talent in the GB and other team’s game thread all the time. Nothing new here. He’s a closet Celtics fan.

Yea I really dont get why he does this, he's always hard on Levert. I can't believe he's saying Dinwiddie can do what he did lol. But then again Prok just stat watches and looks at analytics, I'm 100% sure he doesn't watch the games like that, I've been calling him out for Years about this on this board. He's my guy and makes some good points but I just don't get his hate for Levert, it really doesn't make any sense. And to say, "oh he's not no Clyde Drexler or LeBron so where not loosing much of a player anyway" is a complete slap in the face.

I like Dinwiddie, but he's very overrated. The stats love him, but they don't match the eye test.

[MrDollarBills]

Spencer's shooting has been money but his assists are down because he's looking for his own shot more.

I understand its a contract year but making others around you better is how you're going to get paid. For as much flack that Russell gets from us, Russell actively looks to make plays for other players.

[kamaze]

I hope that just because of this story of him not needing surgery and being able to come back this year he does what's best for his health long term. If he needs to sit out the year sit, if he needs to go under the knife so be it.. all that matters is that he gets healthy for the long term. Rushing back to soon can cause another injury and nobody wants that.

[Prokorov]

Sucks so bad Caris went down... really feel for that dude. was having a break out third season. Obviously a hard worker and someone the whole organization was rooting for. hope this is just a setback and he can come back. looking at paul george and hayward it shouldnt have to be something that limits him moving forward if its just a gruesome break.

That aside, there is zero reason to change what we are doing. This talk about tanking is beyond idiotic. you keep going with the plan... if we are organically bad fine, but you dont tank. develop guys and play with max effort. let the wins fall where they may.

And as excellent as levert has been its not like we lost a prime clyde drexler. Caris was giving us 19/4/3 on 47/32/73. Thats not completely irreplacable...

Dinwiddie has quietly given us just as much... 14/4/2 on 47/40/80 in just 27 minutes... bump him into leverts role and you might see that same production. i think the real question is can napier give us 10 ppg off the bench to replace spencer once he starts.

but this "trade for carmello" or "we should tank" stuff is classic 14 year old girl overeaction.

This isn’t going to end well. That’s ridiculous.

Nobody on this team is averaging the level of production on both ends that LeVert provided and I can’t believe during this time that you would even allude to that. Everyone knows we’re going to suck now. There is a psychological aspect at play here and nobody seems to comprehend that.

Dinwiddie couldn’t even get hot tonight. Kept chucking terrible shots. He’s worked his way into his role which is a sixth man off the bench and now it’s back to starting and bad shot selection. Expecting Dinwiddie to replace LeVert’s IMPROVED impact is unrealistic. We will be as competitive as DLo and Dinwiddie take us and both are insanely inconsistent and consistently inconsistent defensively.

We’re going to revert back to being blown out when our threes don’t fall and we also now will distribute touches to guys who cannot blow by a defender the way Caris can to set up a Allen, DLo or Harris.

This takes a significant hit to our drive and kick effectiveness, our improved turnover ratio, defense, etc. Nobody compares him to a damn HOF but we all know he’s simply the heart, soul and best two way player on the team. Centerpiece to our rebuild. He’s our best long term talent. He won us our last game for crying out loud and handed Denver it’s first home loss. Not Dinwiddie. Not Russell.

Your weird nonsensical approach to downplaying our best players is getting old...

So nearly 20 games since levert went down....

Everyone knows we are going to suck now

-Nets were 6-8 prior to Leverts injury.
-Nets are 9-10 since Leverts injury.

Expecting dinwiddie to replace Leverts IMPROVED impact is unrealistic

-Levert: 18/4/4 on 47/31/72
-Dinwiddie since Levert went down: 21/5/3 on 50/36/79

we also now will distribute touches to guys who cannot blow by a defender the way Caris can

-Dinwiddie #2 in the NBA in FG% in the restricted area
-Levert 3.7 assits per game ... Dinwiddie 4.9 assists, russell 6.2 assists per game

cannot blow by a defender the way Caris can to set up a Allen, DLo or Harris.

-Allen 12.6 ppg before levert went down, 11.9 ppg after
-Harris 13.5 ppg before levert went down, 13.3 ppg after
-Dlo 16.8 ppg before levert went down 18.7 ppg after
-Allen, russell, Carroll, Crabbe, Davis, dinwiddie FG%/3PT% all up since Leverts injurt. Harris, Napier, Kurucs all down.

Have we all come back to earth now? Can we admit this talk about having to immediately change directions and tank or do something drastic like trade for Carmello was crazy talk? I know everyone wants to kill me for being some Levert hater but the truth is that was never the case... I was one of the biggest Levert supporters, I never got down on him when people wanted him cut when he had a horrific start last year and on the flipside i never bought into him as having some superstar impact with the great start he had this year... like i said at the time he was playing great but 19/4/3 is not irreplaceable production and dinwiddie was REALLY getting dissed and overlooked.

Levert is going to be a big part moving forward, and I think this will be a minor set back and getting him back will be a shot in the arm but we didnt lose prime lebron when he went down and people REALLY were not giving the rest of the team credit for our early 6-8 start (Kennym, Spencer, Allen, etc...)

[MrDollarBills]

I'm here for my plate of crow, sir.

[MGrand15]

Sorry dude you get no props for downplaying someone's impact 30 minutes after they suffered a gruesome and possibly career ending injury. Especially not coming from the same guy who thinks we have bottom 3 talent.

And please stop acting like you were the lone defender of LeVert while everyone else wanted to cut him. No one wanted to cut him. I'm pretty sure your beef with LeVert comes from the fact that the board DOESNT kill him when he plays badly. He's basically universally liked. You've dropped that same line at least 100 times since the off season.

[Prokorov]

Sorry dude you get no props for downplaying someone's impact 30 minutes after they suffered a gruesome and possibly career ending injury. Especially not coming from the same guy who thinks we have bottom 3 talent.

I didn't downplay anything, i simply responded that people were going WAY beyond overboard doom and gloom with the injury... i mean its one thing to say that the injury will hurt us or that its a big hit to team and fan morale... but people were acting like this was a franchise changing event, that we needed to immediately tank or sign a win now vet like Carmelo to try and stay wins relevant.

I simply pointed out that while levert was playing improved, excellent basketball he wanst putting up star production and that dinwiddie had quietly been producing at about the same rate and with the increased minutes could likely provide what levert was providing (which people killed me for, and it turned out that dinwiddie could and did match that production)

And please stop acting like you were the lone defender of LeVert while everyone else wanted to cut him. No one wanted to cut him. I'm pretty sure your beef with LeVert comes from the fact that the board DOESNT kill him when he plays badly. He's basically universally liked. You've dropped that same line at least 100 times since the off season.

I never said i was the lone defender. MDB defended him among others... you missed the point. when levert was playing awful i defended him and people came at me for overhyping him. then he played good this year and people called him a star and i said thats overboard and people said im a hater. point being, people here are way to reactionary on both ends.

i dont mind at all that the board doesnt kill him when he plays poorly, i just think its super hypocritical when people bash certain guys like russell or diniwddie, dont do the same for levert, then praise levert for playing well but dont give that same level of props for other when they do well.

Same thing with crabbe. i said crabbe was overpaid and it was a bad signing/trade for marks. i said crabbe is no better then joe harris. i got killed for it and called a crabbe hater even though i said crabbe the player is a good fit its marks/his contract that is the issue...

fast forward and now everyone is killing crabbe, his contract, and marks for that move and im here defending crabbe saying the same things i said before... he is still a good fit, he will come back to his shooting averages, its just his contract thats bad.