The LeBron Thread (merged)

[SlimShady83]

It was a matter of time:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/dan-woike-lebron-james-carries-lakers-to-victory-but-in-the-future-he-will-need-more-help/ar-BBPcCzo

"You don't want to be around me when my patience runs out," LeBron James said."

This is the first thing I saw in that link


Inb4 he starts getting people fired OR demands that players get traded

Fooking hate this bum so much

and I have several reason why - I wish we could trade him. I know we won't, it's just a dream of mine

You should probably read more carefully. If you had you would've seen that he was directly asked what happens when his patience runs out. That quote is nothing.

From some of the reactions you'd think LeBron is stinking up the joint. He's averaging 28/9/8 on 51% shooting this season. Hardly the numbers of a bum, and he's only getting better as the season goes. He's averaging 30/9/7 on 56% shooting over the past four games.

Cuz you can't honestly believe that can you? He ain't gonna say crap to the Media.

Bron: "You don't want to be around me when my patience runs out," LeBron James said."

Media: So what are you going to do when your patience runs out?

Bron: Nothing!

Yeh that sounds scary Bron LMAO makes no sense

Wait you don't want to be around me when my patience runs out, I'll do nothing LOL LOL LOL LOL

I just can't wait until his 4 years is up

[zimpy27]

Yes LeBron isn't as good as his prime during the RS, he saves the energy for the playoffs. Last year he had the greatest playoff VORP ever at 3.7, beating Duncans 2003 campaign and his own 2012 and 2016 campaigns. His entire team had a VORP equating to 0. This was just 5 months ago.

He brings it in the playoffs but if he brought that energy now he'd be gone by All-Star break.
He's not dragging the Lakers to the finals but already statistical estimations say he's added 1.6 wins to the Lakers already as compared to being replaced with an average NBA player.
Only people in the NBA ahead of him right now in TPA are Curry, Lillard, Kemba and Jokic.

So just relax.

The closing games have been rough because it relies upon slowing the ball down and the Lakers system is about speed. They need to find a slow pace group for those situations or commit to pushing the pace win or lose. It also doesn't help that the Lakers have no second guy and the play is obviously going to be for LeBron everytime, I saw them involve Ingram much more last game and expect that to be a trend just to form a secondary distraction at the least.

[SlimShady83]

Yes LeBron isn't as good as his prime during the RS, he saves the energy for the playoffs.

The problem with that is... He doesn't know how hard it is to be in the west - You need at least what 45 wins just to be in the 8th seed and if he can't win out west In the regular season, I just don't think we'll get there - I mean I still have my hopes that we'll be like 6th seed or something, but the way things are going - I'll wait until around 30 games to make another judge-ment call

[zimpy27]

Yes LeBron isn't as good as his prime during the RS, he saves the energy for the playoffs.

The problem with that is... He doesn't know how hard it is to be in the west - You need at least what 45 wins just to be in the 8th seed and if he can't win out west In the regular season, I just don't think we'll get there - I mean I still have my hopes that we'll be like 6th seed or something, but the way things are going - I'll wait until around 30 games to make another judge-ment call

I imagine Lakers get 45.

[milesfides]

All this stuff about individuals defense or lack of defense ignores the reality that team defense is not a collection of individual defenders. Effective defense is a group of 5 guys working together. It rarely has to do with athleticism, length or speed rather it's about buying into a system, length of time in that system and trusting your teammates. The era of the "advanced stat" has everyone focusing on individuals rather on how the group plays together. Everyone is looking at their least favorite Laker to blame the poor defense on it seems. The true culprit is lack of time, new lineups every "shift" and a system that may not match the talents of the team.

Our rocky start isn't surprising to me at all. We overvalue our youth because we all want them to be the next superstar Lakers. I think the future is now for most of them in terms of ceiling on getting the most from their innate talent.... it's time to grow in experience and learn roles. Bron is what he is at this point. He's by far the best player on this team. He's also a guy who needs a team around him that plays a certain way. We all knew that when he came here. My guess is if these guys don't fit we'll change the guys rather than change out Bron.

I don't disagree completely, but you can't deny that individuals can really enhance or undermine a team's defense. Championship teams all have had elite defensive individual players. My point is that Lebron's defense is no longer a defensive asset, and now he's average or worse. Can we still play better as a team? Yes. Is Lebron going to elevate our defense? No. This matters when you consider how exactly we're going to win a championship, and how going all-in on a 34-year-old Lebron would affect our chances.

I just think it's an obvious conflict of interest. Lebron wants to win now, and he doesn't care if he burns down L.A. in the process. I don't agree with being on Lebron's timeline. The logical move is trading away an aging superstar who will only have declining value, rather than selling low on our young talent who will only appreciate in value.

Doing the opposite is just poor management. That's what happens when the tail wags the dog, when you kowtow to Team Lebron.

"We can't trade Lebron."

Yes we can. Until of course, we can't.

[Landsberger]

All this stuff about individuals defense or lack of defense ignores the reality that team defense is not a collection of individual defenders. Effective defense is a group of 5 guys working together. It rarely has to do with athleticism, length or speed rather it's about buying into a system, length of time in that system and trusting your teammates. The era of the "advanced stat" has everyone focusing on individuals rather on how the group plays together. Everyone is looking at their least favorite Laker to blame the poor defense on it seems. The true culprit is lack of time, new lineups every "shift" and a system that may not match the talents of the team.

Our rocky start isn't surprising to me at all. We overvalue our youth because we all want them to be the next superstar Lakers. I think the future is now for most of them in terms of ceiling on getting the most from their innate talent.... it's time to grow in experience and learn roles. Bron is what he is at this point. He's by far the best player on this team. He's also a guy who needs a team around him that plays a certain way. We all knew that when he came here. My guess is if these guys don't fit we'll change the guys rather than change out Bron.

I don't disagree completely, but you can't deny that individuals can really enhance or undermine a team's defense. Championship teams all have had elite defensive individual players. My point is that Lebron's defense is no longer a defensive asset, and now he's average or worse. Can we still play better as a team? Yes. Is Lebron going to elevate our defense? No. This matters when you consider how exactly we're going to win a championship, and how going all-in on a 34-year-old Lebron would affect our chances.

I just think it's an obvious conflict of interest. Lebron wants to win now, and he doesn't care if he burns down L.A. in the process. I don't agree with being on Lebron's timeline. The logical move is trading away an aging superstar who will only have declining value, rather than selling low on our young talent who will only appreciate in value.

Doing the opposite is just poor management. That's what happens when the tail wags the dog, when you kowtow to Team Lebron.

"We can't trade Lebron."

Yes we can. Until of course, we can't.

I’m understanding your overall sentiment but when Magic came in the “wait for the youth” timeline was over. The win now or else stuff has nothing to do with Bron.... he’s the current manisfestion of it but it began with Magic and Jeannie IMHO.

That said, I can understand it to a certain degree. While we have very good young players we dont’ have a “special talents” in the group IMHO. None of these guys will be the best player on a true contender thus you have to go get a top priced vet. Getting the best one in the game is a good thing if you are in our FO right now.

[milesfides]

I’m not disputing that the front office believes their moves are the right ones. I’m simply arguing that they’re wrong, like believing KCP is “manna from heaven.”

“Win-now” - for what? For a championship? Not that easy. You need the right assets and the right time to facilitate the right moves.

I’m arguing Lebron was the wrong move. Let’s call this year a bye. Next summer, Lebron will presumably lead us on a title run at age 35, a statistically high risk of injury or drastic decline. Second, it’s already evident that he’s not among the very best players in the league. He’s definitely not a two-way player anymore. Would you prefer Lebron over the next four years to Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry? Or even Giannis, Embiid, etc.? Then what business do we have expecting to win a championship over these prime stars?

Ok, so let’s go with the theory that Lebron would help us land the stars that would help Lebron (or rather, Lebron would help them). A major problem with that assumption: stars don’t want to play with him. Former teammates like Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, and even Derrick Rose recently talked about how hard it was to play next to Lebron. It doesn’t matter what the media thinks - these are players stating facts. What makes matters worse, players know when players are slipping, or becoming “old farts,” as Kevin Durant called Kobe. So now we’re looking at Lebron actually hurting us in terms of attracting tantalizingly attainable true superstars like Kawhi Leonard, who is looking for a situation like LA. - minus Lebron being there.

So I think the assumptions are just wrong. He’s not the right guy to build around for a championship run. Nothing personal, I wouldn’t want to build a championship around a 34-year-old Kobe either. If we do, there’s a high risk of setting the franchise back for a half-decade if not more. Why not do it the logical way?

Right time, right place, right player. Or, sure, you enjoy watching the catastrophe of a mismatched roster, a frustrated aging star cramping the development of young talent, a coach unable to hold him accountable for his own mistakes, management trapped by their own promises that they can't keep, and all of that will lead to a toxic environment and more short-sighted decisions that will increasingly set the franchise back.

[RamonSessions7]

Least the guy plays in back to backs. Guess that's becoming extinct among stars

[milesfides]

This has gotten worse. We had a great 4th quarter last night, held the Raptors to 20 points - all with Lebron on the bench. Our defense was actually good without Lebron. And of course, Lebron had a major role in our horrendous 1st quarter. He gave zero resistance. Did not defend, rebound at all. Against Pascal, Anunoby, Ibaka?

And speaking of Ibaka, Lebron couldn't contain Serge Ibaka dribble driving from the beyond the 3-point line straight to the basket. It's over, folks.

Over the past 10 games, what I've noticed is more than just a lack of effort. Lebron's lateral movement is shot. He cannot cut-off opponents. His ability to quick step, slide, shuffle, cut, etc. has been severely compromised. He seems to have lost the explosive fast twitch muscles, and has poor recovery - one movement and he's done. I don't think it's just that he's lazy, it's because he's lost the ability. He ends up reaching or letting opponents blow by. It looks like laziness, but he's simply playing within himself. Which is even worse.

[Landsberger]

This has gotten worse. We had a great 4th quarter last night, held the Raptors to 20 points - all with Lebron on the bench. Our defense was actually good without Lebron. And of course, Lebron had a major role in our horrendous 1st quarter. He gave zero resistance. Did not defend, rebound at all. Against Pascal, Anunoby, Ibaka?

And speaking of Ibaka, Lebron couldn't contain Serge Ibaka dribble driving from the beyond the 3-point line straight to the basket. It's over, folks.

Over the past 10 games, what I've noticed is more than just a lack of effort. Lebron's lateral movement is shot. He cannot cut-off opponents. His ability to quick step, slide, shuffle, cut, etc. has been severely compromised. He seems to have lost the explosive fast twitch muscles, and has poor recovery - one movement and he's done. I don't think it's just that he's lazy, it's because he's lost the ability. He ends up reaching or letting opponents blow by. It looks like laziness, but he's simply playing within himself. Which is even worse.

I'm thinking he's hurt. My guess is a back injury.

[Landsberger]

Least the guy plays in back to backs. Guess that's becoming extinct among stars

Yeah.... in the age of the best physical conditioning the stars don't play back to backs. The NBA used to have 3 in a rows and play the same amount of games in 5-6 week shorter seasons. Somehow those great players back then could perform on road trips of 5 games in 8 days.

[Vae Victus]

This has gotten worse. We had a great 4th quarter last night, held the Raptors to 20 points - all with Lebron on the bench. Our defense was actually good without Lebron. And of course, Lebron had a major role in our horrendous 1st quarter. He gave zero resistance. Did not defend, rebound at all. Against Pascal, Anunoby, Ibaka?

And speaking of Ibaka, Lebron couldn't contain Serge Ibaka dribble driving from the beyond the 3-point line straight to the basket. It's over, folks.

Over the past 10 games, what I've noticed is more than just a lack of effort. Lebron's lateral movement is shot. He cannot cut-off opponents. His ability to quick step, slide, shuffle, cut, etc. has been severely compromised. He seems to have lost the explosive fast twitch muscles, and has poor recovery - one movement and he's done. I don't think it's just that he's lazy, it's because he's lost the ability. He ends up reaching or letting opponents blow by. It looks like laziness, but he's simply playing within himself. Which is even worse.

Yea, he's basically giving post achilles injury Kobe level of defense right now. It's pretty goddamn frustrating seeing Lebron literally only play one side of the court.

Other superstars are gonna notice this ****, so unles Lebron puts up more than token defense, i dont see why another top flight star wants to come to LAL and carry Lebron's water (do all the dirty work), while Lebron gets all the glory. Just like the situation with Kobe.

While i was jokingly in the past, saying we should trade Lebron for whatever we can get, that idea is now legit gaining more steam in my mind. Lebron aint gonna just suddenly turn it on and become a 2 way player again.

[BEazy]

Sooo umm....If we keep losing winnable games when will LeBron release that "saved energy" that he has stored up? People think the Lakers play in the East and we're guaranteed a playoff spot. Man some of yall will have a rude awakening when we miss the playoffs because LeBron doesn't want to release his "saved up energy"....

[Spanish_Laker]

Again, LeBron is not the problem. The problem is we all thought our young core was better and the reality is different, they aren't that good.

[AreBe]

This is what I need you to know: If you are going to have LBJ on your team, you need to get at least two real - deal, catch and shoot, camp out in the corner or camp out in the elbow 3-point shooters. Their defense can be ok to middling to maybe even below average. Their job is to get passes from LBJ when the help comes and to drain the 3. Mandatory. That is how it works.

Now, when the help comes, it just turns into a hot mess for the Lakers.

The Raptors are not that good by the way - they are talented to be sure and they have some better than serviceable players in that Pascal Siakim fellow who can run like a sprinter and that OG Anunoby guy who hurt is knee and fell to the Raptors on draft day, but last night was a very good Raptors team demolishing a demonstrably not very good Lakers team.

The Lakers must find some 3 points shots. Any reclamation project in Europe or the minors would be an improvement. All they have to do is camp out in the corner and make 3's (of course with a hand in your face, it's the NBA,)

The Raptors are not as good as the Lakers made them look.

[Landsberger]

The Raptors are not as good as the Lakers made them look.

Granted but the Lakers are not as bad as the Raptors made them look either. We are a team that lacks balance and has completely new rotations. Players who were growing into the lead spots on a team are now in support roles. Other than Kuzma no one played a game like they had this year last night. Everyone was a little off. My guess is that if we play that game 4 more times we take 2 of them. We did win every quarter except the first.

Our team will need the first 20 games to figure it out. Youth, gaps in the balance of the team and learning to play around Bron will take it's time to figure out.

[AreBe]

Our team will need the first 20 games to figure it out. Youth, gaps in the balance of the team and learning to play around Bron will take it's time to figure out.

100%

Three point shooters. Real - deal reliable, camping out in the corner 3 point shooters and things will get much better for the Lakers and quickly.

[Kilroy]

So LeBron almost cracked... [url]https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251634/LeBron-James-I-Almost-Cracked-Last-Week
[/url]

Not trying to flame him, but, I would love if that quote was a little more about his play than about the young team... Because he's at least a big part of the problem right now... I think the young guys were counting on him to lead on D as well... Instead, we've had to find ways to cover for him... It's been a huge problem for us.
That and he's been anything but a rock for us in the 4th... No matter what else we do... And no flame job intended... But LeBron clearly needs to get better if we consider ourselves a playoff team...

Yes, the rest of the team does too... But a leader doesn't deflect.

[stan francisco]

I thought he meant his back almost cracking. Deflecting responsibility will crack the team, for sure.

I would love to trade him for AD etc but it won’t happen. My guess is still that he’ll turn it up as the season gets older.

[Kilroy]

Only reason I'd trade LeBron is if we go through this off season and don't acquire an all-star level impact player... Won't be AD unless a miracle happens... But if Cousins shows he can play this season, maybe him if we lose out on Kawhi...

The team was built to acquire another superstar... Not surround LeBron with role players... If we can't do that, there's no real point keeping LeBron.