Kings Off-Season

[SacKingZZZ]

Why is Skal out of the rotation? Is he injuried?

There are too many bigs and with the Kings being more competitive than expected Joergers gone with the experience of Kosta Koufos off the bench. Harry Giles and Skal are out of the rotation right now. Depending on how things transpire I expect either a trade at some point or for them to get more minutes if the Kings start slipping.

Koufos has been terrific.

Next year it is going to be Bagley/Bjelica/Giles? And maybe our FO can pull another miracle and grab another FC FA?

Still don't think we should do a big spend on WCS - I don't think it is prudent although he plays really well on a running team.

For some reason I can't see Vlade letting Willie go. He's always liked him. I'm not sure how much it will cost but athletic bigs of his size combined with how he's playing as a top notch finisher at the rim is going to cost you. Dare I say with how he's fitting with the roster he's a must re-sign.

[sacking123]

There are too many bigs and with the Kings being more competitive than expected Joergers gone with the experience of Kosta Koufos off the bench. Harry Giles and Skal are out of the rotation right now. Depending on how things transpire I expect either a trade at some point or for them to get more minutes if the Kings start slipping.

Koufos has been terrific.

Next year it is going to be Bagley/Bjelica/Giles? And maybe our FO can pull another miracle and grab another FC FA?

Still don't think we should do a big spend on WCS - I don't think it is prudent although he plays really well on a running team.

For some reason I can't see Vlade letting Willie go. He's always liked him. I'm not sure how much it will cost but athletic bigs of his size combined with how he's playing as a top notch finisher at the rim is going to cost you. Dare I say with how he's fitting with the roster he's a must re-sign.

I have changed my mind on this. I think he is a must sign as well with the way he is playing. It leaves the Kings in a decent position with his play and his value on the trade market has increased.
It is still bothering me though what he said prior to the season regarding getting paid.
Even still if we don’t completely overpay he will be worth the contract with this style of play. The question is who would be a team that signs him to an offer sheet of say $15 mill that has a need at C and the space?


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[dckingsfan]

And, IMO, that would be a bad thing...

[sacking123]

And, IMO, that would be a bad thing...

I can certainly see why people would take this view and I for one think it’s perfectly reasonable. We can’t just let him walk though.

Having said that I’m not sure if this is thorough enough, and if anyone has more information please correct me, for teams with cap space, but this was a quick search of teams currently that project to have enough space to sign WCS.
Brooklyn - Jarrett Allen
Dallas - Deandre Jordan
Atlanta - possible
NY Knicks - possible but highly unlikely/would have bigger targets
Indiana - Myles Turner
Clippers - have bigger targets
Lakers - have bigger targets
76ers - Embiid
Bulls - Wendell Carter Jnr
Magic - Vucevic/Bamba
Suns - Ayton
Jazz - Gobert
Pelicans - Davis

We look to be in a pretty good position to negotiate with WCS so who knows. Vlade wasn’t scared of throwing out large numbers so that has me a little worried.


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[dckingsfan]

And, IMO, that would be a bad thing...

Vlade wasn’t scared of throwing out large numbers so that has me a little worried.

Exactly. He isn't part of the "core" and shouldn't get a max deal, IMO. You have to leave cap space for Fox, Bjelica, Hield, Bagley (and Bogs?). There will be a bunch of WCS replacements out there at the end of this season... (IMO). I would rather trade WCS at the trade deadline for assets instead of signing him to a very large deal. If it is reasonable - then fine.

[sacking123]

And, IMO, that would be a bad thing...

Vlade wasn’t scared of throwing out large numbers so that has me a little worried.

Exactly. He isn't part of the "core" and shouldn't get a max deal, IMO. You have to leave cap space for Fox, Bjelica, Hield, Bagley (and Bogs?). There will be a bunch of WCS replacements out there at the end of this season... (IMO). I would rather trade WCS at the trade deadline for assets instead of signing him to a very large deal. If it is reasonable - then fine.

I wouldn't be going max for WCS at all. I also haven't seen anyone say they would or anyone suggest so. Personally I don't like maxing players at all unless they are game changers on both sides of the ball, particularly 5s.

Interesting you put Bjelica as having to leave cap space for?
Bjelica isn't going to be part of our core after this contract as he will be 33 so I don't agree with you on that. We shouldn't get caught up in his great play and believe he is going to be more than a 3 year player for us which is his current contract. Anything after that will come at a greatly reduced role and/or salary and that isn't even taking into account style of play and adding somewhere in the vicinity of 210-240 games onto his body. Of course we can flip that and say he doesn't have a lot of miles on his legs in regards to NBA time, however it simply won't get easier for him after next season IMO if the pace of the NBA stays this way.
At the end of Bjelica's contract we will/could have Fox (23), Hield (27), Bogs (29), Bagley (22), Giles (23) as the core and either having a new contract or looking to sign a new contract.
That isn't putting 2 first round picks and god knows how many 2nd rounders, plus Ferrell, Mason, Jackson, Skal could essentially be worth giving new contracts to if they are bargains and that is what we are going to have to do moving forward for depth. We are going to have some real issues (good ones though) moving forward with the roster given how many young pieces we have.
I could absolutely see Bjelica getting another contract with us and being an important bench piece of a possible championship run (yes if we hit on Bagley and Giles it will be that good of a core), but for those pieces you don't need to save money for them, he will want to play with these guys (Fox, Buddy, Bogs they are the ones that changed the chemistry last season with the help of the vets), there will be a lot of players wanting to play with them too as they are having fun on the court and off it, but working hard on their game.
I haven't done the research on it, but I would love to know all of the 33 year old players that have signed contracts over lets say the last 3 seasons and see where they sit in the grand scheme of things. I'm tipping almost all of them are quite low barring either superstar of declining star players.

[SactoKingsFan]

It's strange how Kings fans are hung up on some of Willie's comments and putting none of his consistency issues on coaching/ playing style. He wasn't exactly put in a great situation to succeed until this season. Would be foolish to just move on from Willie now that it's all coming together. And I'm not sure it would be that easy to replace what he brings to the table. Giles is just a wild card and there's not a ton of super athletic centers that can match Willie's skill-set. Wouldnt be surprised if he stays for a bit less than the Myles Turner contract.

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[SacKingZZZ]

It's strange how Kings fans are hung up on some of Willie's comments and putting none of his consistency issues on coaching/ playing style. He wasn't exactly put in a great situation to succeed until this season. Would be foolish to just move on from Willie now that it's all coming together. And I'm not sure it would be that easy to replace what he brings to the table. Giles is just a wild card and there's not a ton of super athletic centers that can match Willie's skill-set. Wouldnt be surprised if he stays for a bit less than the Myles Turner contract.

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No question, but the history of contract year types can't be ignored. Let alone types that are largely system players so that might factor into questions about his value. I think many good points are also brought up above in terms of the core that would be left. In theory you still have an abundance of bigs to choose from and one in Bagley in particular that could be almost everything Willie is and possibly more. I don't think it's that easy though because Willie is quite a skilled player in his own right and bigger than Bagley. The luxury there is that Bagley's max if he proves worth it won't really hit until the back end of Willies next contract anyway. I could totally see at least 1 team looking at Willie as being more valuable than Turner and that's all it takes. Joerger is finally letting Willie show his switch defense potential and I doubt that it's going unnoticed by scouts.

[dckingsfan]

Vlade wasn’t scared of throwing out large numbers so that has me a little worried.

Exactly. He isn't part of the "core" and shouldn't get a max deal, IMO. You have to leave cap space for Fox, Bjelica, Hield, Bagley (and Bogs?). There will be a bunch of WCS replacements out there at the end of this season... (IMO). I would rather trade WCS at the trade deadline for assets instead of signing him to a very large deal. If it is reasonable - then fine.

I wouldn't be going max for WCS at all. I also haven't seen anyone say they would or anyone suggest so. Personally I don't like maxing players at all unless they are game changers on both sides of the ball, particularly 5s.

Interesting you put Bjelica as having to leave cap space for?
Bjelica isn't going to be part of our core after this contract as he will be 33 so I don't agree with you on that. We shouldn't get caught up in his great play and believe he is going to be more than a 3 year player for us which is his current contract. Anything after that will come at a greatly reduced role and/or salary and that isn't even taking into account style of play and adding somewhere in the vicinity of 210-240 games onto his body. Of course we can flip that and say he doesn't have a lot of miles on his legs in regards to NBA time, however it simply won't get easier for him after next season IMO if the pace of the NBA stays this way.
At the end of Bjelica's contract we will/could have Fox (23), Hield (27), Bogs (29), Bagley (22), Giles (23) as the core and either having a new contract or looking to sign a new contract.
That isn't putting 2 first round picks and god knows how many 2nd rounders, plus Ferrell, Mason, Jackson, Skal could essentially be worth giving new contracts to if they are bargains and that is what we are going to have to do moving forward for depth. We are going to have some real issues (good ones though) moving forward with the roster given how many young pieces we have.
I could absolutely see Bjelica getting another contract with us and being an important bench piece of a possible championship run (yes if we hit on Bagley and Giles it will be that good of a core), but for those pieces you don't need to save money for them, he will want to play with these guys (Fox, Buddy, Bogs they are the ones that changed the chemistry last season with the help of the vets), there will be a lot of players wanting to play with them too as they are having fun on the court and off it, but working hard on their game.
I haven't done the research on it, but I would love to know all of the 33 year old players that have signed contracts over lets say the last 3 seasons and see where they sit in the grand scheme of things. I'm tipping almost all of them are quite low barring either superstar of declining star players.

Good points all. I would just say that WCS (in my mind) has made it clear he wants a max contract. I wouldn't give him one. Nor Bjelica for that matter. And I think there are a bunch of WCS equivalents out there in this next FA period. My take, an overpay now would not be a good thing. Be patient and wait.

[bleeds_purple]

It's strange how Kings fans are hung up on some of Willie's comments and putting none of his consistency issues on coaching/ playing style. He wasn't exactly put in a great situation to succeed until this season. Would be foolish to just move on from Willie now that it's all coming together. And I'm not sure it would be that easy to replace what he brings to the table. Giles is just a wild card and there's not a ton of super athletic centers that can match Willie's skill-set. Wouldnt be surprised if he stays for a bit less than the Myles Turner contract.

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No question, but the history of contract year types can't be ignored. Let alone types that are largely system players so that might factor into questions about his value. I think many good points are also brought up above in terms of the core that would be left. In theory you still have an abundance of bigs to choose from and one in Bagley in particular that could be almost everything Willie is and possibly more. I don't think it's that easy though because Willie is quite a skilled player in his own right and bigger than Bagley. The luxury there is that Bagley's max if he proves worth it won't really hit until the back end of Willies next contract anyway. I could totally see at least 1 team looking at Willie as being more valuable than Turner and that's all it takes. Joerger is finally letting Willie show his switch defense potential and I doubt that it's going unnoticed by scouts.

It comes down to two things:

1. Do you see Bagley as the starting center long-term?
2. Do you want to pay him to be the back up?

My preference is to trade him before the deadline for picks or a SF. Let's assume Bagley isn't a bust (not certain at this point but very unlikely) then you're going to by paying WCS a bunch of money to play 20 minutes a game. I really don't see WCS and Bagley coexisting on the floor for long stretches. Not enough handling.

[BoogieTime]

If there was a good package to be had for WCS, I’d move him. I’d pay for an economical restricted FA deal, not more. There will be a lot of competition at center in FA, I don’t see him getting more

He needs to become serviceable at interior defense/rebounding. Center is the most important defensive position arguably. We will have scoring at the other positions.

[dckingsfan]

First, WCS, Bagley and Bjelica have been a terrific FC rotation thus far... kudos to them. Second, I think with the cap expanding there may be some stupid deals out there - hence my worry. And I also think there will be some bargains as well.

WCS, Koufos and Shumpert this year. It will be interesting to see how prudent we are this go around. In the past, we have always had that "small" market panic.

Opinion
Fox is the most important player on the team and that is going to become even more apparent over time. We won't have trouble paying him (21-22).

We have Bagley/Bjelica locked up through 20-21 (Bagley an extra year).

Hield and Bogs (as well as Mason and Ferrell) both come up in 20-21. We don't want to eat too much cap space on long-term deals before then (again, my opinion).

[SacKingZZZ]

It's strange how Kings fans are hung up on some of Willie's comments and putting none of his consistency issues on coaching/ playing style. He wasn't exactly put in a great situation to succeed until this season. Would be foolish to just move on from Willie now that it's all coming together. And I'm not sure it would be that easy to replace what he brings to the table. Giles is just a wild card and there's not a ton of super athletic centers that can match Willie's skill-set. Wouldnt be surprised if he stays for a bit less than the Myles Turner contract.

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No question, but the history of contract year types can't be ignored. Let alone types that are largely system players so that might factor into questions about his value. I think many good points are also brought up above in terms of the core that would be left. In theory you still have an abundance of bigs to choose from and one in Bagley in particular that could be almost everything Willie is and possibly more. I don't think it's that easy though because Willie is quite a skilled player in his own right and bigger than Bagley. The luxury there is that Bagley's max if he proves worth it won't really hit until the back end of Willies next contract anyway. I could totally see at least 1 team looking at Willie as being more valuable than Turner and that's all it takes. Joerger is finally letting Willie show his switch defense potential and I doubt that it's going unnoticed by scouts.

It comes down to two things:

1. Do you see Bagley as the starting center long-term?
2. Do you want to pay him to be the back up?

My preference is to trade him before the deadline for picks or a SF. Let's assume Bagley isn't a bust (not certain at this point but very unlikely) then you're going to by paying WCS a bunch of money to play 20 minutes a game. I really don't see WCS and Bagley coexisting on the floor for long stretches. Not enough handling.

I think Bagley has to be viewed as that, but he can play with Willie for a decent chunk of minutes per game so it will ease the burden. The positive thing is you can conceivably sign Willie and towards the end of his deal transition Bagley into that role.

[dckingsfan]

And that means it really comes down to what kind of deal WCS wants and the duration of the deal... if he wants the max for the max number of years - you gotta walk away from that.

[City of Trees]

Based on his current play WCS is gonna get paid

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[TacoBell]

WCS is not perfect but with finishing at an elite level. switching, catching lobs, running and rebounding very well i'm not sure if the kings would be the same without him.

[SactoKingsFan]

Yeah, Willie is definitely getting paid but Vlade can let the market determine his value then decide if matching makes sense. No need to assume he won't stay for quite a bit less than his max.

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[blind prophet]

Just match what he gets offered.

[City of Trees]

Willie is a huge part of whats going on. His fit is perfect.

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[LightTheBeam]

Based on his current play WCS is gonna get paid

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Someone earlier mentioned Myles Turner. I think he, Nurkic and Capela are a good measuring stick for what we can anticipate WCS will get.

Capela - 2017-2018 - 14/11/2 blocks
Turner - 2017/2018 - 13/6.5/2 blocks
Nurkic - 2017/2018 - 14/9/1.5 blocks
WCS - 2018-2019 - 16/8.5/.5 blocks

Capela got 5/90
Turner got 4/72
Nurkic got 4/48

All of these guys lock the paint down better than WCS, but I would say WCS is the best offensive player of the bunch. I would be okay giving him a 3/54 deal or 4/68. Hes part of the core and I think long term he and Bagley can co-exist.

Also WCS deserves credit. He has went through 3 systems. He looked good in Karls system, then Joerger ran that BS the last 2 years which was exactly the opposite of what WCS should be doing, and now that we are running again he looks great.

WCS/Giles
Bagley/Bjelica
Bogdan
Hield
Fox/Mason or Yogi

I'm not ready to say Giles is good enough that we don't need to resign WCS. I think this summer the goal should be a solid backup wing. Then run into next year and evaluate where we are at summer of 2020.