#3 Greatest Defensive SF All-Time: Top 10 Defense at Each Position Project

[trex_8063]

1. Jason Kidd
2.Walt Frazier
3. Gary Payton
4. Dennis Johnson
5. Jerry West
6. John Stockton
7. Chris Paul
8. Mookie Blaylock
9. Nate McMillan
10. Mo Cheeks

Shooting Guards:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Sidney Moncrief
3. Tony Allen
4. Michael Cooper
5. Alvin Robertson
6. Eddie Jones
7. Jerry Sloan
8. Joe Dumars
9. Danny Green
10. Don Chaney

Small Forwards:


1. Scottie Pippen
2. Ron Artest

And this is where it started
Idea


THE CANDIDATES

Tom Sanders (1961-73) Celtics
John Havlicek (1963-1978) Celtics
Joe Caldwell (1965-1975) Pistons, St.Louis Hawks, Atlanta Hawks, Carolina Cougars, Spirits of St.Louis
Willie Wise (1970-78) Los Angeles Stars, Utah Stars, Virginia Squires, Denver Nuggets, Seattle
Bob Dandridge (1970-82) Bucks, Bullets
Julius Erving (1972-87) Virginia Squires, New York Nets, 76ers
Jamaal Wilkes (1975-86) Warriors, Lakers, Clippers
Bill Hanzlik (1981-90) Seattle, Nuggets
Paul Pressey (1983-93) Bucks, Spurs, Warriors
Rodney McCray (1984-93) Houston, Sacramento, Dallas, Bulls
Derrick McKey (1988-2002) Seattle, Indiana, 76ers
Rick Fox (1992-04) Celtics, Lakers
George Lynch (1994-05) Lakers, Vancouver Grizzlies, 76ers, Hornets
Grant Hill (1995-13) Detroit, Magic, Suns, Clippers
Bruce Bowen (1997-2009) Heat, Celtics, 76ers, Spurs
Posey (2000-11) Nuggets, Rockets, Grizzlies, Heat, Boston, Hornets, Pacers
Marion (2000-15) Suns, Heat, Toronto, Dallas, Cleveland
Stephen Jackson (2001-14) Nets, Spurs, Hawks, Pacers, Warriors, Charlotte, Bucks, Spurs, Clippers
Shane Battier (2002-14) Grizzlies, Rockets, Heat
Andrei Kirilenko (2002-15) Jazz, Minnesota, Nets
Gerald Wallace (2002-15) Sacramento, Charlotte, Blazers, Nets, Celtics
Tayshaun Prince (2003-16) Detroit, Grizzlies, Celtics, Minnesota
Lebron James (2004-19+) Cavs, Heat, Lakers
Andre Iguodala (2005-19+) 76ers, Nuggets, Warriors
Luol Deng (2005-19+) Bulls, Cavaliers, Heat, Lakers, Minnesota
Paul George (2011-19+) Pacers, OKC
Kawhi Leonard (2012-19+) Spurs, Raptors
Robert Covington (2014-19+) 76ers




Hi guys

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[/quote]

[Statlanta]

Kawhi.

LeBron's greatest defensive effort does not coincide with his great regular season effort.

His defensive peak is not that far above Kawhi.

None of the old guys provide enough lockdown D in their era to overcome the rules eliminating most of the need for team defense.

[cecilthesheep]

I'll also vote for Kawhi Leonard. I consider his three/four-year defensive peak the highest ever achieved by a perimeter defender, and nobody remaining has enough longevity to overcome it in my mind - I place a high value on peak performance.

I think Kirilenko and Bowen are the only ones who come close as far as peak value, and Kirilenko's peak as an elite defender really wasn't that much longer than Kawhi's. I thought really hard about Bowen as well - in his era, he was almost comparable to Kawhi, but even as a Spurs fan I think a lot of what he did involved dirty tricks which wouldn't have been allowed in any other decade. So Kawhi it is.

[Samurai]

My vote is for Bruce Bowen.

[mdonnelly1989]

So far I predicted the top 2 right. If my understanding is correct.

Kawhi will get 3. And
Bruce Bowen will get 4.

[mdonnelly1989]

My vote goes to Kawhi slightly over Bowen.

[Luigi]

I vote Bowen, then I'm headed toward Leonard and Kirilenko.

[penbeast0]

I'll agree on Bruce Bowen. Yes, he was dirty, but if you get away with it, it counts. Sort of like flopping or getting superstar calls. And, his prime where he really played good defense is longer than Leonard's or Kirilenko's.

[pandrade83]

Lebron. Don’t let the past couple regular seasons make you forget what a two way monster he was in his physical prime.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Kawhi right now has three maybe four seasons of elite defensive play. (Not sure 17 should count as he was out in the playoffs with injury.) That seems really light on the longevity. He's not that far ahead on peak power to justify ignoring guys defending near his level for twice as long.

LeBron at his best is better than Kawhi, and he has far more series with elite defense than Kawhi does at this point.

LeBron

[cecilthesheep]

LeBron at his best is better than Kawhi

I think that that is one very bold assertion. Longer prime, yes. But I think LeBron at his best is still a clear tier below Kawhi and Bowen.

[70sFan]

No love for Gus Johnson? Is he considered a PF?

[penbeast0]

Used to watch Gus in Baltimore and Washington; I'll take Bobby Dandridge over him. Gus is the more dynamic overall player with his backboard breaking monster dunks and rebounding, but to guard a wing I'd trust Bobby Dandridge first (Gus on a PF obviously).

[Sublime187]

Again, I feel nobody reached as a high a peak defensively as Lebron among the candidates left so, my vote goes to him.

[cecilthesheep]

No love for Gus Johnson? Is he considered a PF?

Gus was grouped as a PF; he'll be in the next positional thread.

[cecilthesheep]

I'm amazed at the love LeBron is getting over Bowen. I can maybe see a longevity argument against Kawhi, but what is LeBron's advantage over Bowen by any standard? I mentioned his dirty tricks, but that to me was like a last-resort tiebreaker.

[WestGOAT]

Lebron. Just because he has fallen off the previous seasons it doesn't mean was still ELITE the majority of his career, which is like probably a solid 10 years.

[kendogg]

No denying LeBron is a great team defender. But he's honestly just too much of a beast to be that active at both ends of the floor without killing his stamina. And LeBron has always favored saving his energy for offense and guarding secondary threats. So his influence in locking down primary threats except in isolated possessions is limited. Where as for example with Jordan, early in his career he was so light and quick that he was capable of guarding the primary threats most of the time and still carrying the offense. Kawhi is the closest thing to a SF version of Jordan that we got in the league today. I'm not sure if his longevity is there though which is why it is tough for me to give him my vote either this early.

I'm going in a different direction. The best defensive teams of all time are littered with 60's Celtics entries. Bill Russell is a big part of that, but so is John Havlicek who played major minutes even in his rookie season as it was Cousy's last season ('63). Dude was a defensive beast. Best 2-way wing of his era IMO. 8x All Defense. 8x Champion. Maybe the most infamous steal of all time or at least in the running. He's a top 10 lock for sure.

[penbeast0]

So far I see:
LeBron 4
Bowen 3
Kawhi 3
Havlicek 1

[PistolPeteJR]

Soooo...what do you see now?