Fiz wants to have a set lineup by the 25 game mark

[Deeeez Knicks]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

[Kampuchea]

If we base this on the players ratings, the following is the best lineup.

PG: Burke/Mudiay
SG: Dots/Baker/Trier
SF: Lance/Mario
PF: Vonleh
C: Mitch

If we go 10/11 deep: Hardway/Kanter get burn
Blowout: Ntilikina, Knox & Kornet

[Kampuchea]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

I wouldn't mind if he just kept changing the lineup every 5 games until someone plays so well that they take away coach's opportunity to change it again.

None of the players have played well enough to cement themselves in the starting lineup.

Fiz is an improvement in that he does play the young players more compared to prior coaches. Unfortunately, I can't wait to move on from Fiz since I hate the sleazy salesman BS he keeps feeding us. He is a snake, at least one that plays the young guys

[prophet_of_rage]

It's a rebuilding season. Naturally the lineup will shuffle. Even the "best" lineup really isn't good right now despite what the stats tend to indicate. 3 of the 5 regular starters don't even average double figures. For the team only 4 averages double figures in scoring. And that's just on offense. Cant score, you wont win, no matter how great the defense is, and speaking on defense...it isn't anywhere close to good either.

Whatever happens, just secure a top 5 pick, preferably top 3. Make this season worth something.

That lineup still had a 98.5 DEF rating which will keep you competitive in most games. Hey I have no problem wit him tinkering (I personally don't believe in that if I was coaching since I think chemistry is more valuable). But hey its a rebuilding year and if he wants to see different line ups he has plenty of time throughout the year to experiment.

Just don't pedal it off like you made a change because the lineup wasn't productive when the analytics say otherwise. Outside of the Orlando game the lineup never left the 1st qtr in a large deficit, which actually grew with the bench on the floor. But they were still playing defense. Which should be the ultimate goal of any lineup this year.

Analytics are reactive not proactive. That lineup had the benefit of weaker teams, too. We're scouted now. Teams know who we are now. It gets tougher as the season goes. That lineup wasn't going to stay effective against good teams and woukd beat bad teams. Is that what you want? Meaningless wins?

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[Deeeez Knicks]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

I wouldn't mind if he just kept changing the lineup every 5 games until someone plays so well that they take away coach's opportunity to change it again.

None of the players have played well enough to cement themselves in the starting lineup.

Fiz is an improvement in that he does play the young players more compared to prior coaches. Unfortunately, I can't wait to move on from Fiz since I hate the sleazy salesman BS he keeps feeding us. He is a snake, at least one that plays the young guys

Yeah, as long as the young guys keep playing and the losses keep piling up i dont really mind. The minutes are distributed somewhat evenly so even off the bench players can get a lot of minutes.

[whocares1]

Read on Twitter

so that unit is basically playing teams even in the 1st quarter. pretty good for the youngest starting lineup in the league i would say. and with only 1 semi-decent offensive option in tommy boy.

does fiz not realize in ny that people will fact check what u say ? this aint memphis fizzy mowack

Tim Hardaway is the difference and that’s what you’re not understanding. When Timmy starts the game off well offensively, the lineup looks great. Over the last couple of games Timmy has struggled and as a result, the starting lineup has faltered. It showed the coaching staff that the starting lineup is far too reliant on Tim’s production.

You would know that if you watched the game.

[mpharris36]

It's a rebuilding season. Naturally the lineup will shuffle. Even the "best" lineup really isn't good right now despite what the stats tend to indicate. 3 of the 5 regular starters don't even average double figures. For the team only 4 averages double figures in scoring. And that's just on offense. Cant score, you wont win, no matter how great the defense is, and speaking on defense...it isn't anywhere close to good either.

Whatever happens, just secure a top 5 pick, preferably top 3. Make this season worth something.

That lineup still had a 98.5 DEF rating which will keep you competitive in most games. Hey I have no problem wit him tinkering (I personally don't believe in that if I was coaching since I think chemistry is more valuable). But hey its a rebuilding year and if he wants to see different line ups he has plenty of time throughout the year to experiment.

Just don't pedal it off like you made a change because the lineup wasn't productive when the analytics say otherwise. Outside of the Orlando game the lineup never left the 1st qtr in a large deficit, which actually grew with the bench on the floor. But they were still playing defense. Which should be the ultimate goal of any lineup this year.

Analytics are reactive not proactive. That lineup had the benefit of weaker teams, too. We're scouted now. Teams know who we are now. It gets tougher as the season goes. That lineup wasn't going to stay effective against good teams and woukd beat bad teams. Is that what you want? Meaningless wins?

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so just to be clear you are saying fiz changed the lineup to lose more?

[dakomish23]

I figure Mitch, Knox, Dot, THjr, Frank is how it washes out.


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I don't see Vonleh losing that spot. I wonder if they aren't quietly shopping THJ...

Robinson/Vonleh
Vonleh/Hezonja
Knox/Hezonja/Dotson
Doston/Trier
Frank/Trier/Mudiay

This makes sense to me.

They should be loudly shopping THJ

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

so that unit is basically playing teams even in the 1st quarter. pretty good for the youngest starting lineup in the league i would say. and with only 1 semi-decent offensive option in tommy boy.

does fiz not realize in ny that people will fact check what u say ? this aint memphis fizzy mowack

Tim Hardaway is the difference and that’s what you’re not understanding. When Timmy starts the game off well offensively, the lineup looks great. Over the last couple of games Timmy has struggled and as a result, the starting lineup has faltered. It showed the coaching staff that the starting lineup is far too reliant on Tim’s production.

You would know that if you watched the game.

don't give your typical wooohhhh don't insult me response when they come after you when you insulted the person first... just giving youa headsup

[j4remi]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

Wow, I didn't expect that. Makes me think that the appearance of starting unit struggles might legit be explained by Mitch foul trouble moreso than anything. Are there sites we can check different line-ups net ratings? 82 games used to be the one but last time I checked they weren't updated.

[dakomish23]

Mills and Perry better realize they’ll keep getting these types of players if they win 30 games every season.

FACT. Banking on finding that rare gem that drops out the top 5 is foolish.

Drop all the one year players and put the kids through the fire.

Play the kids. Live with the results.




Either you’re about the rebuild or you’re not.

[mpharris36]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

Wow, I didn't expect that. Makes me think that the appearance of starting unit struggles might legit be explained by Mitch foul trouble moreso than anything. Are there sites we can check different line-ups net ratings? 82 games used to be the one but last time I checked they weren't updated.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

this will be your best bet

[prophet_of_rage]

Read on Twitter

so that unit is basically playing teams even in the 1st quarter. pretty good for the youngest starting lineup in the league i would say. and with only 1 semi-decent offensive option in tommy boy.

does fiz not realize in ny that people will fact check what u say ? this aint memphis fizzy mowack

Tim Hardaway is the difference and that’s what you’re not understanding. When Timmy starts the game off well offensively, the lineup looks great. Over the last couple of games Timmy has struggled and as a result, the starting lineup has faltered. It showed the coaching staff that the starting lineup is far too reliant on Tim’s production.

You would know that if you watched the game.

It's difficult not to notice that only Tim can score. Other teams see it, too.

[Deeeez Knicks]

In the last 3 games played the old starting lineup had a Net Rating of +18.8 (103.6 Ortg, 84.7 Drtg).

The offense struggled a little but the defense was still good with that lineup. Surprised our Net Rating was still that high.

I don’t really mind Fiz tinkering with the lineup though.

Wow, I didn't expect that. Makes me think that the appearance of starting unit struggles might legit be explained by Mitch foul trouble moreso than anything. Are there sites we can check different line-ups net ratings? 82 games used to be the one but last time I checked they weren't updated.

NBA.com has some great tools where you can look at 2 man, 3 man, 4, 5 combinations. You can add filters for teams, players or minimum minutes to cut out lineups that haven’t played much.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

[prophet_of_rage]

That lineup still had a 98.5 DEF rating which will keep you competitive in most games. Hey I have no problem wit him tinkering (I personally don't believe in that if I was coaching since I think chemistry is more valuable). But hey its a rebuilding year and if he wants to see different line ups he has plenty of time throughout the year to experiment.

Just don't pedal it off like you made a change because the lineup wasn't productive when the analytics say otherwise. Outside of the Orlando game the lineup never left the 1st qtr in a large deficit, which actually grew with the bench on the floor. But they were still playing defense. Which should be the ultimate goal of any lineup this year.

Analytics are reactive not proactive. That lineup had the benefit of weaker teams, too. We're scouted now. Teams know who we are now. It gets tougher as the season goes. That lineup wasn't going to stay effective against good teams and woukd beat bad teams. Is that what you want? Meaningless wins?

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so just to be clear you are saying fiz changed the lineup to lose more?

Fiz is being low key brilliant with what he's doing. Forget what he says in the media. That's just coach speak. It doesn't mean anything.

What is he creating? Competition. Everybody has to compete for their spot. Who earns it gets it. So now your young players are engaged. They don't start to feel bad about losing because they are scrapping for their chance to get it, see that coach gives them an opportunity to get it so they don't and they don't lose faith in themselves while never coming close to actually winning. So nobody feels like they are losers. Middle of the pack free agents don't feel like the Knicks are a bad place to work and the young kids don't get entitled or feel like losers because they keep being on the short end of 118-115 games which can really crush you to think hey we're not good enough or win enough of those 118-115 games that you pick up meaningless wins.

You all keep saying this is a lost season, but you all keep watching every little thing. fiz is doing one thing this year, creating an uncomfortable, competitive environment. Once the teardown is complete (all the unwanted contracts are gone (hasn't happened yet)) then he can rebuild with players who don't view him as the coach not good enough to win them close games, but the guy who supported them and gave them chances to earn it.

[whocares1]

Read on Twitter

so that unit is basically playing teams even in the 1st quarter. pretty good for the youngest starting lineup in the league i would say. and with only 1 semi-decent offensive option in tommy boy.

does fiz not realize in ny that people will fact check what u say ? this aint memphis fizzy mowack

Tim Hardaway is the difference and that’s what you’re not understanding. When Timmy starts the game off well offensively, the lineup looks great. Over the last couple of games Timmy has struggled and as a result, the starting lineup has faltered. It showed the coaching staff that the starting lineup is far too reliant on Tim’s production.

You would know that if you watched the game.

don't give your typical wooohhhh don't insult me response when they come after you when you insulted the person first... just giving youa headsup

Because he and others are insulting the coach. Stop blaming the coach. Stop using “Well the Net rating says” and watch the freaking game. That lineup played well because Timmy carried that lineup offensively. Does that sound like a consistent lineup? Fiz multiple times said he was happy with the starting lineup, he changed it because they weren’t performing well. Stop throwing statistics without analyzing why statistics don’t tell you the whole story.

[mpharris36]

Tim Hardaway is the difference and that’s what you’re not understanding. When Timmy starts the game off well offensively, the lineup looks great. Over the last couple of games Timmy has struggled and as a result, the starting lineup has faltered. It showed the coaching staff that the starting lineup is far too reliant on Tim’s production.

You would know that if you watched the game.

don't give your typical wooohhhh don't insult me response when they come after you when you insulted the person first... just giving youa headsup

Because he and others are insulting the coach. Stop blaming the coach. Stop using “Well the Net rating says” and watch the freaking game. That lineup played well because Timmy carried that lineup offensively. Does that sound like a consistent lineup? Fiz multiple times said he was happy with the starting lineup, he changed it because they weren’t performing well. Stop throwing statistics without analyzing why statistics don’t tell you the whole story.

are you related to the coach? What its to you if they insult the coach. They damn well are open to criticism and someone can call them out on it. That doesn't give you the right to insult someone else when you damn sure know he is in game threads watching the games.

Fiz is a big boy and can live with his decisions and he isn't above criticism...it comes with the job.

As far as you, you can disagree with someones post. But there is nothing more insulting then questing if you watch games. So don't get salty when people come at you for the blatant disrespect.

[mpharris36]

Analytics are reactive not proactive. That lineup had the benefit of weaker teams, too. We're scouted now. Teams know who we are now. It gets tougher as the season goes. That lineup wasn't going to stay effective against good teams and woukd beat bad teams. Is that what you want? Meaningless wins?

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so just to be clear you are saying fiz changed the lineup to lose more?

Fiz is being low key brilliant with what he's doing. Forget what he says in the media. That's just coach speak. It doesn't mean anything.

What is he creating? Competition. Everybody has to compete for their spot. Who earns it gets it. So now your young players are engaged. They don't start to feel bad about losing because they are scrapping for their chance to get it, see that coach gives them an opportunity to get it so they don't and they don't lose faith in themselves while never coming close to actually winning. So nobody feels like they are losers. Middle of the pack free agents don't feel like the Knicks are a bad place to work and the young kids don't get entitled or feel like losers because they keep being on the short end of 118-115 games which can really crush you to think hey we're not good enough or win enough of those 118-115 games that you pick up meaningless wins.

You all keep saying this is a lost season, but you all keep watching every little thing. fiz is doing one thing this year, creating an uncomfortable, competitive environment. Once the teardown is complete (all the unwanted contracts are gone (hasn't happened yet)) then he can rebuild with players who don't view him as the coach not good enough to win them close games, but the guy who supported them and gave them chances to earn it.

I think you are incorrect with this assessment. Most people in the disappointed in Fizdale camp are people who recognize there are only like 5 or 6 players that matter. So we aren't watching every little thing we are only watching the things that matter. Fiz is actually the one giving his focus to "every" player.

When have your roster won't be on the team next year you tend to focus on the players that actually will be...and those players need to build chemistry and develop a defensive mindset. Nothing more. As long as that happens it wouldn't be considered a lost season.

A lost season is starting Jarrett Jack all year and guess what like everyone expected he wasn't on the team this year. The same will be the case for a lot of these other guys...its like clockwork.

[SmoothLefty21]

It's fine to tinker. Frank needs to step it up and I'm fine with Fiz sending a message. But we're well on our way to a Top 3 pick if we're starting Mudiay/Hardaway/Knox on the perimeter throughout the season. We'll be down 40-25 after every single first quarter with that defensive unit.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I figure Mitch, Knox, Dot, THjr, Frank is how it washes out.


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yep. and before game 25 he said all along that he was going to give all of the PGs a shot and give other key players opportunities to start or experience certain roles in the rotation. so, i figure this is testing time in a tank, er-- developmental season.