Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[nate33]

They are both expiring players. If we trade Beal for nothing but cap space I’m fine with that. We’ll be in the lottery this year.

I’d be all in the tank for a Duke player this year (preference Williamson of course).

That's where the disconnect is. Beal's probably our best trade chip. We need to get value for him if we trade him.

I feel as trading Beal is a mistake. There is no synergy between him and Wall on the court. Wall absolutely needs to find a new home. Rumors are just that, rumors but be that as it may a shake up is in need. I personally am tired of hearing there’s time to bounce out of this funk.


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Agreed. Or rather, I don't think trading Beal is a prerequisite in any kind of rebuild/retool/reload plan. Sure, if you can get a real good package in return for Beal, it's worth considering, but I feel no compulsion to actively try and move him. Beal is still young; he seems to be a good guy and a very hard worker; and he has the type of game that can blend in with any type of system and alongside nearly any type of player. His only real limitation is that he's not a legit, first option scorer on an elite team. He is best suited as a 2nd option. His contract is fine. Not cheap, but not an albatross either.

Wall is the guy to move, mostly because he is older and he has a contract that rules out free agency as a meaningful option to acquire any addition players. Wall is a "win now" piece. You can't build for the future around him. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value around the league. It just means that whoever acquires him needs to view him as the final piece because they won't be adding any additional free agents to join him.

[nate33]

I don’t see LeBron James waiting on Ball. Ball/KCP/pick for Wall was supposedly on the table over the summer.

I’d happily take that, the Ball circus has died down.

Yes, that seemed like a good trade to make during the summer when LA was still looking into acquiring a max free agent. But now that LA struck out in free agency, Wall no longer makes much sense for them. Why trade for Wall and his $37M contract next year, giving up assets in the process, when they can just pursue Kawhi, or Butler, or Klay or Durant next summer without giving up anyone?

[owneroz]

It just means that whoever acquires him needs to view him as the final piece because they won't be adding any additional free agents to join him.

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head with that statement




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[nate33]

If Redick would agree to a wink wink deal next year at a reasonable rate, I’d happily ship out Beal for Redick/Chandler.

Worst case scenario we shed Beal’s contract, and shed all of Beal’s salary. Best case Redick and Wall aren’t a horrible experiment, and he resigns at his current 10M range.

I’d happily follow that up with a Porter to NO for Randle deal.

Wall
Redick
Oubre
Randle
Howard

Not a beautiful lineup, but it’s one with far more flexibility. And if we’re honest not a step down from our current roster. I’d love to trade Morris as well, but I’d just leave him on the bench.

Redick is a really good player, possibly even better than Beal, but he's 34. Trading Beal for him is basically giving Beal away for the cap savings. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Admittedly I’m looking to start over. And I don’t do the deal unless Wall and/or Porter are on their way out as well.

If the Lakers supposed offer of Ball+KCP (which can’t be made until Dec 15th) is indeed back on the table? Changes my outlook.

Trading Beal in an effort to start over is fine. But he's worth more than expiring contracts. And it's particularly unwise to trade him for expiring contracts that happen to come in the form of a competent basketball player who will hurt our tank.

If you trade Beal, trade him for crappy players on expiring contracts plus very high value assets like high picks and/or recently drafted prospects.

[trast66]

How can there be trades if the GM is not yet fired? Cart before horse.

[Induveca]

Redick is a really good player, possibly even better than Beal, but he's 34. Trading Beal for him is basically giving Beal away for the cap savings. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Admittedly I’m looking to start over. And I don’t do the deal unless Wall and/or Porter are on their way out as well.

If the Lakers supposed offer of Ball+KCP (which can’t be made until Dec 15th) is indeed back on the table? Changes my outlook.

Trading Beal in an effort to start over is fine. But he's worth more than expiring contracts. And it's particularly unwise to trade him for expiring contracts that happen to come in the form of a competent basketball player who will hurt our tank.

If you trade Beal, trade him for crappy players on expiring contracts plus very high value assets like high picks and/or recently drafted prospects.

So bring in a 3rd team that wants Redick. I don’t particularly care if we keep him or not.

My real preference is dumping Porter ASAP. He’s been just a “guy” for 6 years now. He is what he is, EG pulled off a miracle with Kwame now he needs to do it with Porter.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Before blowing this group up how about trying a different coach first?

This.

Ernie Grunfeld hired a horrible coach. Before trading the Wizards need to get rid of EG and Scotty.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don’t expect them to be, I’m going for the one year tank.

Then trading for Redick makes no sense.

Ship him out at the trade deadline, but if we are stuck with Wall/Porter then at least this gives us flexibility at the end of the year and can completely shed one max contract. Ask for their Sacramento pick too, they’d include it....

I’m just looking for flexibility. I’d rethink this trade if we found a similar true dump of Porter. I just don’t see one?

If the choice is 2-3 years of lesser talent, or going for the tank/clearing a max space while still pursuing a Porter trade? I’m quite happy with shedding one max contract, and the prize being a higher lottery pick and financial flexibility.

Yes I’m advocating for starting over around Wall/Brown/Oubre etc. Get some picks and/or lesser contracts around the trade deadline for Morris, Green, Rivers.

It’s a dream irregardless, EG isn’t starting over.

Wall is a poor leader. His knees will not hold up. His defense is slipping. He's nowhere near worth a supermax deal.

Wall is a player to send to a contender now. He's not a player to build around.

No one on the Wizards is so good they cannot be traded.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They are both expiring players. If we trade Beal for nothing but cap space I’m fine with that. We’ll be in the lottery this year.

I’d be all in the tank for a Duke player this year (preference Williamson of course).

That's where the disconnect is. Beal's probably our best trade chip. We need to get value for him if we trade him.

I feel as trading Beal is a mistake. There is no synergy between him and Wall on the court. Wall absolutely needs to find a new home. Rumors are just that, rumors but be that as it may a shake up is in need. I personally am tired of hearing there’s time to bounce out of this funk.


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I would keep Beal. I would also keep Porter if this sorry coach is not retained.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don’t see LeBron James waiting on Ball. Ball/KCP/pick for Wall was supposedly on the table over the summer.

I’d happily take that, the Ball circus has died down.

I damn sure suggested it all over EARLY last summer.

If I had to predict what will happen, I would guess a three-way deal with LAL, Washington, and maybe Sacramento.

Porter is going to be traded. I think John ends up in LA.

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[Induveca]

I don’t see LeBron James waiting on Ball. Ball/KCP/pick for Wall was supposedly on the table over the summer.

I’d happily take that, the Ball circus has died down.

I damn sure suggested it all over EARLY last summer.

If I had to predict what will happen, I would guess a three-way deal with LAL, Washington, and maybe Sacramento.

Porter is going to be traded. I think John ends up in LA.

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I hope so, Ball would at least spare us the painful Beal ISOs!

Porter I just want him out the door at that salary. His value will never be higher than now, and it’s already taken a serious hit.

[sogood]

Lakers aren't trading for Wall, that would ruin their cap space to acquire another max. With the drama going on in GS and rumors of Durant wanting to play with LeBron, no chance in hell they take on Wall's contract.

[payitforward]

Fultz+Chandler+Zhaire Smith +PHIL 19' Pick + MIA 2020 Pick for Beal?

keep dreaming

You think that's not enough for Bradley Beal? Two R1 picks in the next 2 years? 1 of them likely to be a lottery pick? Plus Zhaire Smith, whom they gave a ton to get? Plus roll the dice on Fultz...?

Just how good do you think Brad Beal is, I wonder? He had quite a good year 2 years ago. Last year he was an above average SG but nothing special. This year he's more or less like last year.

[payitforward]

Since so many of you seem to want to trade Otto Porter, we might as well look at some trade ideas that have a chance to benefit us.

Otto Porter & Jason Smith (expiring) to GS for Draymond Green, Kevon Looney, & Damian Jones.

Why for them is obvious: turns a problem (Draymond) into an asset (Porter). Looney & Jones are the cost they pay. Man would Otto ever thrive on that team! & they're smart enough to know that.

Why for us: Green's ability to shake things up might be a plus for us. He also puts Morris on the bench. Jones is showing this year why they liked him. Puts Mahinmi on the bench. Looney is the guy CCJ & I wanted in the 2015 draft. Only concern about him is do we have any rights at end of season?

If they were unwilling to part with Jones in this deal, Jordan Bell would work for me as well. Might even be willing to take Alfonzo McKinnie (I'd need to look at his college numbers first; haven't done that yet).

This trade is only worth talking about if the time comes when trading Green is the best way out of a team conflict.

You are expecting them to trade literally every center they have....

Good point. But, it's only 2 out of 3 -- plus I'm sending them back Jason Smith. Still... good point.

[Shanghai Kid]

Wall is really cementing himself with a team cancer label. His value is going down with every tidbit that comes out.

[payitforward]

1. If I could get Porter for Randle, Hill & NO's '19 R1 pick, I'd do it in a minute.

Really?

Randle has a player option this summer that he is likely to exercise given the amount of money chasing free agents. If we kept him, it would probably be at a cost that would make him a negative asset.

So basically, it would be Porter for the number 25-ish pick in the draft and Solomon Hill's dead weight contract that costs $13M next year.

We don't disagree; I just wrote in a sloppy way. I meant that if I, New Orleans, could acquire Otto Porter in return for only Randle, Hill & my (i.e. New Orleans's) 2019 R1 pick, I'd do it in a minute.

IOW, I wouldn't trade Porter for that package.

[nate33]

1. If I could get Porter for Randle, Hill & NO's '19 R1 pick, I'd do it in a minute.

Really?

Randle has a player option this summer that he is likely to exercise given the amount of money chasing free agents. If we kept him, it would probably be at a cost that would make him a negative asset.

So basically, it would be Porter for the number 25-ish pick in the draft and Solomon Hill's dead weight contract that costs $13M next year.

We don't disagree; I just wrote in a sloppy way. I meant that if I, New Orleans, could acquire Otto Porter in return for only Randle, Hill & my (i.e. New Orleans's) 2019 R1 pick, I'd do it in a minute.

IOW, I wouldn't trade Porter for that package.

I thought somebody might have hijacked your account.

[Illmatic12]

Wall is really cementing himself with a team cancer label. His value is going down with every tidbit that comes out.

I don’t see how you can be labeled a team cancer when you’ve only played for one team. If you do this across multiple teams like Jimmy Butler, Melo etc that’s when that label starts to come out.

Pretty much every outside observer would agree that the Wizards are a hapless franchise that had a dysfunctional FO long before Wall even got here. And the stuff John supposedly said to Scott Brooks is nothing compared to what people here say about him in game threads, so it’s not like he doesn’t have a legitimate gripe seriously would anyone side with Scott Brooks in this?


It probably lowers his value if they wanted to trade him now, but I don’t think they do. If Brooks is fired this week and the team has a respectable finish to the season, things can be revisited in the offseason. John has generally been a good soldier and has a history of strong playoff performance, that’s what teams will look at on balance.

Demarcus Cousins behavior was way worse than this and he got traded. Same with Jimmy Butler. Heck Blake Griffin assaulted up a team trainer and broke his hand in the process of beating the guy to a pulp, and he still got traded lol..

I would keep Wall if the right offers aren’t there, but imo there will always be options to trade Wall, Beal or Porter

[Mizerooskie]

The latest Pelton piece (http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25320773/ranking-washington-wizards-roster-nba-trade-value) ranks the Wizards' players by trade value, offering a sobering look at Wall. A small excerpt:

8. John Wall

Wall is both Washington's best player and perhaps the most difficult to trade ...So, barring a truly desperate trade partner that doesn't seem to exist right now, Washington would more likely have to include draft picks in a Wall trade than get them back.

It also offers some interesting trade scenarios:

Oubre to Philadelphia for a 1st.
Sato to Houston for Marquese Chriss and a 2nd

Now combine that with Kevin O'connor's Porter/NO trade idea (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/11/19/18102234/nba-bold-trade-pelicans-anthony-davis)

Porter to NO for Solomon Hill, Julius Randle, and a 1st

Now the potential Wall/LAL trade:

Wall to LAL for Ball, KCP, and a 1st

That leaves us with:

PG: Ball, Rivers
SG: Beal, Caldwell-Pope
SF: Green, Brown, Hill
PF: Randle, Chriss, Morris
C: Howard, Mahinmi, Bryant

Some young talent to build on with Ball (who I'm not a great fan of, but he's something), Randle, and Brown plus three additional 1sts and much-improved cap flexibility. Obviously trade Rivers, Morris, Green, and.or Howard if you can get positive futures for them, but I'm skeptical you can. I'm also skeptical the Porter and Wall deals would actually happen, but who knows.

Something I've been toying around with is Beal to Boston for some combo of Jaylen Brown and the Sacramento 1st, but the salaries are really tough to work out. The only thing I can come up with is adding a third team (not sure who would fit the bill yet) to facilitate, and the deal would almost certainly have to include either: both Smart and Morris additionally leaving Boston, or Horford going out and a lesser-paid big coming in. Any ideas here?

[TGW]

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