Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[truwizfan4evr]

The latest Pelton piece (http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25320773/ranking-washington-wizards-roster-nba-trade-value) ranks the Wizards' players by trade value, offering a sobering look at Wall. A small excerpt:

8. John Wall

Wall is both Washington's best player and perhaps the most difficult to trade ...So, barring a truly desperate trade partner that doesn't seem to exist right now, Washington would more likely have to include draft picks in a Wall trade than get them back.

It also offers some interesting trade scenarios:

Oubre to Philadelphia for a 1st.
Sato to Houston for Marquese Chriss and a 2nd

Now combine that with Kevin O'connor's Porter/NO trade idea (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/11/19/18102234/nba-bold-trade-pelicans-anthony-davis)

Porter to NO for Solomon Hill, Julius Randle, and a 1st

Now the potential Wall/LAL trade:

Wall to LAL for Ball, KCP, and a 1st

That leaves us with:

PG: Ball, Rivers
SG: Beal, Caldwell-Pope
SF: Green, Brown, Hill
PF: Randle, Chriss, Morris
C: Howard, Mahinmi, Bryant

Some young talent to build on with Ball (who I'm not a great fan of, but he's something), Randle, and Brown plus three additional 1sts and much-improved cap flexibility. Obviously trade Rivers, Morris, Green, and.or Howard if you can get positive futures for them, but I'm skeptical you can. I'm also skeptical the Porter and Wall deals would actually happen, but who knows.

Something I've been toying around with is Beal to Boston for some combo of Jaylen Brown and the Sacramento 1st, but the salaries are really tough to work out. The only thing I can come up with is adding a third team (not sure who would fit the bill yet) to facilitate, and the deal would almost certainly have to include either: both Smart and Morris additionally leaving Boston, or Horford going out and a lesser-paid big coming in. Any ideas here?

chriss? yikes

[Mizerooskie]

chriss? yikes

I mean, it's for Sato. I'd take just the 2nd.

Chriss has some talent. The Houston trade just killed any chance he had for PT. Still only 21 and had a better first two seasons than Otto.

[Shanghai Kid]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

You have to wonder how all of this will effect future free agents considering coming to the Wizards.

[Dat2U]

Lakers aren't trading for Wall, that would ruin their cap space to acquire another max. With the drama going on in GS and rumors of Durant wanting to play with LeBron, no chance in hell they take on Wall's contract.

LeBron gets what he wants. If he wants Wall, the Lakers will trade for him. They will screw their cap and assets just like the Cavs screwed theirs trying to improve with LeBron. He is the defacto GM.

[queridiculo]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

You have to wonder how all of this will effect future free agents considering coming to the Wizards.

Beal as a player has his own set of issues, but I think his professionalism and conduct of the court is beyond reproach.

More than any player on the roster this guy busts his ass in the gym and it's alarming when you find out that this is where his head is at.

It's an indictment of the organization and it's not hard to understand why his frustrations are bubbling over and whom he's directing his criticism at.

For far too long this organization has had a culture of coddling and elevating players, and not holding each player accountable to the same standard.

We know this is true because we've seen it with Arenas, we've seen it with the new big three and we're now seeing it with Wall.

[FAH1223]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

You have to wonder how all of this will effect future free agents considering coming to the Wizards.

Beal as a player has his own set of issues, but I think his professionalism and conduct of the court is beyond reproach.

More than any player on the roster this guy busts his ass in the gym and it's alarming when you find out that this is where his head is at.

It's an indictment of the organization and it's not hard to understand why his frustrations are bubbling over and whom he's directing his criticism at.

For far too long this organization has had a culture of coddling and elevating players, and not holding each player accountable to the same standard.

We know this is true because we've seen it with Arenas, we've seen it with the new big three and we're now seeing it with Wall.

Brad has always been way wiser beyond his years. I'm glad he's the one lashing out at this useless front office. Its also good he hasn't demanded a trade yet.

If he's the reason Grunfeld and company are fired, Brad will need to get his number retired!

[Kobe System]

Lakers aren't trading for Wall, that would ruin their cap space to acquire another max. With the drama going on in GS and rumors of Durant wanting to play with LeBron, no chance in hell they take on Wall's contract.

LeBron gets what he wants. If he wants Wall, the Lakers will trade for him. They will screw their cap and assets just like the Cavs screwed theirs trying to improve with LeBron. He is the defacto GM.

LeBron said that he knows what he signed up for. So he knows that it will take time. No one is stupid enough to take Wall's contract unless they're sending another bad contract on a shorter term. Lakers does't have a bad contract.

[nate33]

Lakers aren't trading for Wall, that would ruin their cap space to acquire another max. With the drama going on in GS and rumors of Durant wanting to play with LeBron, no chance in hell they take on Wall's contract.

LeBron gets what he wants. If he wants Wall, the Lakers will trade for him. They will screw their cap and assets just like the Cavs screwed theirs trying to improve with LeBron. He is the defacto GM.

One notable difference is that Lebron has committed to a 3+1 deal. He maintained power over Cleveland by constantly signing 1+1 deals giving him the flexibility to leave. He can't leave LA.

I'm not saying that Lebron doesn't have massive influence, but I do think it's currently possible for LA's management to override Lebron's wishes.

[nate33]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

You have to wonder how all of this will effect future free agents considering coming to the Wizards.

The bottom line is that the Wizards, under Ernie Grunfeld, are a lousy organization and everyone knows it. NO decent free agent will play here unless the money being offered is substantially higher than on other teams. Basically, EVERY player who reaches unrestricted free agency will leave unless we offer significantly more money than anyone else.

What makes Beal's situation significant is that he will be a free agent that is limited by the max salary restriction, which means the Wizards will be unable to offer him significantly more than other teams. Ergo, he will leave.

The Wizards will never win a bid for a good unrestricted free agent as long as Ernie is around. In order to retain players, they must either be restricted (like Otto or Beal), or we must offer more money than others can (like Wall with the supermax, Gortat with the 5th year, Mahinmi's crazy salary, Jamison was paid a fortune when he was resigned, Meeks cost $3.5M when he was probably worth just the vet minimum). If we are unwilling or unable to offer a significant better salary than other teams, the player will leave (like Ariza).

Think about it. The last good free agent we acquired, on a reasonable salary, was Gilbert freaking Arenas in 2003.

[sixers4real]

Is it a fair offer for Beal? If not, has there been better? Wall has to be traded also, but can it be the case?

Fultz + Smith + Chandler + 2021 Miami 1st unprotected + 2020 Sixers 1st unprotected = Bradley Beal

[popper]

We can't even give away an all star and number one pick in the draft. Amazing. Thanks Ernie. Can the wiz agree to eat part of Wall's salary in order to facilitate a trade?

[Jamaaliver]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

What makes Beal's situation significant is that he will be a free agent that is limited by the max salary restriction, which means the Wizards will be unable to offer him significantly more than other teams. Ergo, he will leave.

The aforementioned tweet:

Read on Twitter

I tried telling you this weeks ago, Nate.

Spoiler:

2) Beal* is likely to leave the dysfunction on this team as soon as he can. I expect a trade request either next summer or the summer after. Once that happens, as the time under contract continues to shorten...his value will gradually decrease.

This is utter nonsense - pure conjecture based on wishful thinking on your part.

I've seen no indication whatsoever that Beal wishes to force himself out of Washington.

It wasn't a secret in league circles.

[nate33]

I guess its worth noting, J Michael has a tweet saying its widely known that Beal doesn't have interest in staying with the team beyond this contract.

What makes Beal's situation significant is that he will be a free agent that is limited by the max salary restriction, which means the Wizards will be unable to offer him significantly more than other teams. Ergo, he will leave.

The aforementioned tweet:

Read on Twitter

I tried telling you this weeks ago, Nate.

Spoiler:

2) Beal* is likely to leave the dysfunction on this team as soon as he can. I expect a trade request either next summer or the summer after. Once that happens, as the time under contract continues to shorten...his value will gradually decrease.

This is utter nonsense - pure conjecture based on wishful thinking on your part.

I've seen no indication whatsoever that Beal wishes to force himself out of Washington.

It wasn't a secret in league circles.

Did you even read my full post that you quoted?

Yes, Beal will leave when he is an unrestricted free agent because EVERY player who can't get paid significantly more money leaves this awful franchise. Ariza left. Nene left. Pierce left (though that worked out). Temple left. Booker left.

We also lose in every bidding war for free agents. We lost the Durant sweepstakes. We lost on Horford.

That's the curse of Ernie Grunfeld. The solution is to remove the curse.

[Jamaaliver]

Did you even read my full post that you quoted?

<sigh>

I'll simply repeat something i posted two weeks ago:

I see a bad situation -- and the clear-cut, most direct way out of it is also the most painful and least popular.

Moving Wall is the most ideal scenario...but is unlikely to bring a great return.
Moving Otto is the most likely scenario...but is unlikely to bring a great return.

Moving Beal is the most pragmatic approach...and could revamp your entire roster. I'd look to Orlando, Phoenix, Dallas, Minnesota as young teams desperate for relevance and willing to overpay for a star in trade.

[payitforward]

If Redick would agree to a wink wink deal next year at a reasonable rate, I’d happily ship out Beal for Redick/Chandler.

Worst case scenario we shed Beal’s contract, and shed all of Beal’s salary. Best case Redick and Wall aren’t a horrible experiment, and he resigns at his current 10M range.

I’d happily follow that up with a Porter to NO for Randle deal.

Wall
Redick
Oubre
Randle
Howard

Not a beautiful lineup, but it’s one with far more flexibility. And if we’re honest not a step down from our current roster. I’d love to trade Morris as well, but I’d just leave him on the bench.

Redick is in his 13th year in the league. He's declined a bit, as you'd expect, & he's not worth targeting, certainly not worth trading for.

Basically, the only plus thing about Redick over the years has been shooting more than average at a higher than average TS%, & that's more or less gone. Short term, we'd be a bit worse, & there is no long term. Philly would be better.

Porter for Randle makes more sense. Of course, Randle is going to decline his player option this off season for the chance at a much bigger paycheck in free agency. Which he'll get. & salaries aren't going down, they're going up. I kind of wonder how much we'd save with him instead of Porter. Would it be $10m? I doubt it.

Still, Randle is younger, & he's turned into quite a good player, & if we locked him up for 3-4 years he'd be a good asset to have. That said, I would hope we could get more out of NO for Otto than just Randle. The problem is that other than picks, there's no one they'd trade that we would want -- with the possible exception of Cheick Diallo (meh...).

Much as I would dislike losing Porter & watching him blossom into the star he's going to be, I'd certainly take Randle & a R1 pick for him.

Why? Because there is now nothing to do but rebuild. There is no current "lineup" to go after; it's a waste of time. & to rebuild, it's younger players & extra picks you want.

But, as usual, no trade of this or any kind until Ernie is gone. There is no hope until that egotistical time-server is history.

[payitforward]

I don’t see LeBron James waiting on Ball. Ball/KCP/pick for Wall was supposedly on the table over the summer.

I’d happily take that....

Absolutely! Even better if we could somehow pry Hart away from them. Then keep Porter (or trade to NO for Randle & picks) & trade Beal for picks. Start the rebuild.

But... not until -- none of it until! -- Ernie is gone.

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

!!!!!!!!!!

I know. Still, I take it as a good sign that a reasonable offer was made. It would be a better sign if EG is fired soon, and Ted tells the new guy to clean house.

Actually, Ted should hire a good new guy, then tell him... nothing! ASK him what to do. Or, better yet, go on a long vacation.

[payitforward]

...My real preference is dumping Porter ASAP. He’s been just a “guy” for 6 years now....

Ok, you added yourself to my list of people who've shown they don't understand basketball.

Last year & the year before, Otto was somewhere around the 15th best forward in the league. He'll be back there & even better with this team or some other team.

[payitforward]

Really?

Randle has a player option this summer that he is likely to exercise given the amount of money chasing free agents. If we kept him, it would probably be at a cost that would make him a negative asset.

So basically, it would be Porter for the number 25-ish pick in the draft and Solomon Hill's dead weight contract that costs $13M next year.

We don't disagree; I just wrote in a sloppy way. I meant that if I, New Orleans, could acquire Otto Porter in return for only Randle, Hill & my (i.e. New Orleans's) 2019 R1 pick, I'd do it in a minute.

IOW, I wouldn't trade Porter for that package.

I thought somebody might have hijacked your account.

LOL -- but today I've decided I don't feel willing to take Hill! Makes next year too complicated. Randle & a R1 pick would be a great deal for NO & acceptable for us as part of a total rebuild -- if & only Ernie is gone!

[payitforward]

...LeBron gets what he wants. ...He is the defacto GM.

Could we hire him as our GM?