Game 17: Los Angeles Clippers (11-5) @ Washington Wizards (5-11) - 4:00 PM PT

[esqtvd]

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Yah, this is where our discussions been going with this with plus/minus. Even Ramna, who is "IGNORING" half of what happens on our board gets it sometimes even though he's not part of the discussion on our board anymore.

Thing is, Avery's signed at a Clipper-favorable contract for 2 years, and Pat Bev is at the org's mercy through January, with a cheap renew. The other thing is, we need minutes from them both.

It's early yet. Both are struggling, coming back from season-ending injuries last year. It's not fair to douchebag them yet as they're both doing their damndest for the Clippers and for their careers.

Jeez, it's only November. Doc is doing them both justice by giving them PT, but with limits. What, are we supposed to start Ty and Sindarius instead? Look at their plus/minus.

Let's get real here.

[paganin-74]

I blame Doc for the loss. He was unbelievably passive for almost the entire game. Perhaps subconsciously he wanted Team Austin to prevail.

Beal barrels into Ty Wallace, hits him hard on the head. Ty's in on the floor in pain -- for all is known it might be a concussion or even a brain bleed -- Doc, instead of ripping into Beal and the refs is on the sidelines, making jokes and smiling.

A few minutes later, Wall dangerously undercuts Mane midair, who comes crashing to the floor with a boom. It could easily be a serious injury. Doc is mum as a mummy. Oh, no it's Brooks who gives the refs a piece of his mind for the clear path ruling.

Unchallenged and emboldened Wall and Beal are running around like a couple of Mike Tysons. I knew then and there they'd lost it for good.

[esqtvd]

I blame Doc for the loss. He was unbelievably passive for almost the entire game. Perhaps subconsciously he wanted Team Austin to prevail.

As a great man once said, I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.

[Max Headrom]

3rd road game in 4 nights. They just didn't have any legs in the second half along with the terrible refs. 18 attempts to 39 for the wizards.

Clippers made 6 more field goals, outscored the wizards in the paint 56 to 46, shot a higher percentage than them and held them to 43 percent shooting on the night. They actually did what they were supposed to do besides get a balanced officiated game. Trezz only had 2 free throw attempts, 2!!!!

The Clippers shot 18 free throws, Bradley Beal shot 14 himself, that's absurd...

[TheNewEra]

Yeah, Doc admitted that--in retrospect. But nobody else was hitting either, and it turns out Lou was also sick, which changes the offensive equation completely.


Thing is, Gallo often sucks in the first half then all of a sudden comes on bigtime in the 2nd half. There was no way to know, so Doc stuck with him. A lot of guys go for 40 with the flu. It's a funny game.

Who else to go to? Gallo still finished at zero in plus/minus because of 5 rebs and 5 assists. Scott was minus-11 in only 14 minutes, and with Luc out, that's the end of our depth at forward.

Maybe small ball because if guys were tired Milos, Robinson and Wallace should of got more burn tonight and even Gortat. Team has to many rotation players to slip up over compensating like that playing big minutes to someone struggling more so with Bradley.

Wallace was off the bench early but was forced to leave the game. Dunno why Milos was inactive. Might have been unfit, might have been the brass [not Doc] who decided to activate Sindarius instead. But Doc used all 12 guys in uniform. This I did not know because I agreed [above] that perhaps Milos should have got a turn. Robinson wasn't active either. I don't know who makes that decision.

Maybe we should know before we bash Doc for not playing people who aren't even suited up!!

Doc has to sign the sheet that list what players are active. There was a incident a few years ago a player couldn’t play because Doc forgot to check his name for the active roster sheet. I doubt Doc accidentally forgot to keep the man who made a run with Boban to win you the game the night before.

That’s an inexcusable failure. Not to mention if Bradley is back why do you even need Wallace and Thornwell? It’s pretty redundant to have two defenders limited scorers that do the same thing and not your playmaker that won a game for you the night before.

[TheNewEra]

How is Thornwell active over Milo when Milo just won you a game??? Lmao

The Thornwell-Wallace combo have has put up good numbers in limited minutes, so I can understand keeping both of them active. I think Doc shouldn't have pushed Gallo into playing while he was still recovering from illness, especially with Lou also under the weather supposedly.

I agree with you that Milos probably should have been active, but already having Shai, Avery and Beverley active lessened the need for a 4th point guard. I would have also preferred to see Jerome Robinson active tonight since we were playing a really dysfunctional Wizards team before we gave them some life.

Why would we need Thornwell in that same instance when Bradley is coming back? Wallace and Thornwell are defenders slashers so instead of doubling on one when you are bringing back a defender slasher in Bradley we need a playmaker. On top of that even if it was for Wallace I would hope Milo after winning a game for the team could get higher rank over Thornwell and Wallace

[paganin-74]

I blame Doc for the loss. He was unbelievably passive for almost the entire game. Perhaps subconsciously he wanted Team Austin to prevail.

As a great man once said, I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.

Not sure William Buckley Jr. exactly measures but it's certainly a great quote. And no I don't actually think Doc was involved in an act of sabotage, but it looks like he was lulled into complacency by the big early lead; one can usually hear him in Alaska.

But I'm angry at him for not standing up for his players, hope Ty and Montrezl are going to be alright and disgusted with Wall and Beal. Never particularly liked them before, and from now on are going to delight in their miseries.

[Ranma]

Why would we need Thornwell in that same instance when Bradley is coming back? Wallace and Thornwell are defenders slashers so instead of doubling on one when you are bringing back a defender slasher in Bradley we need a playmaker. On top of that even if it was for Wallace I would hope Milo after winning a game for the team could get higher rank over Thornwell and Wallace

Wallace and Thornwell can serve as wings whereas Bradley is strictly a guard. Also Thornwell and Wallace put up good numbers together more so than apart, so I get why Doc chose to activate them, especially since we already have 3 active point guards.

Like I said, my issue is not with Doc activating Thornwell over Milos, necessarily, since there was justification for that. I just think we should have let Gallinari fully recuperate as well as rest Lou since he was under the weather. Also, assuming he was healthy, this would have been a perfect game to start Robinson for his 3-point shooting, especially if Gallo needed the rest.

[Galloisdaman]

Hindsight is 20-20 but I wish Doc sat both Gallo and Lou. This is just 1 game out of 82. Playing them while sick could lead to injury or getting the rest of the locker room sick.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Never had a triple-double. Just not a dominant player. Just can't take over a game, even if he goes for 30.

Thing is, might be a perfect #3 option, since most SFs who aren't LeBron or KD are pretty lame. But tonight was a prime Tobias night--29/9/1, but you still didn't feel he was DA Man. He did not impose his will on the game.

18 point first quarter and only 9 the rest of the way. That’s all types of passive

Tobias's career high is only 34. No beast mode.

And that's why I think Tobias Harris is a role starter at best, if not a role player altogether. He doesn't want to be a takeover kind of guy. He's only been in the 30-point range 11 times, and in ten of those games, they were wins. It's the fear of being labelled selfish and being compared to a Carmelo Anthony or another ball-hogging stat-stuffing player. He's seems self-conscious of his image.

A primary factor of being DA Man is making Sudden Death Shots. Down 1 or 2 PTS with less than 5 sec. left in final quarter where the scoring basket must be a win, not to draw overtime. Harris only has one, but it's more of an assisted Sudden Death Shot:

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Clippers are probably not going to get that Sudden Death shooter unless it's in a trade for a superstar or they draft a player with this unique skill. They need a Robert Horry player who can make those buzzer beaters. Or they need three All-Stars.

[TheNewEra]

Why would we need Thornwell in that same instance when Bradley is coming back? Wallace and Thornwell are defenders slashers so instead of doubling on one when you are bringing back a defender slasher in Bradley we need a playmaker. On top of that even if it was for Wallace I would hope Milo after winning a game for the team could get higher rank over Thornwell and Wallace

Wallace and Thornwell can serve as wings whereas Bradley is strictly a guard. Also Thornwell and Wallace put up good numbers together more so than apart, so I get why Doc chose to activate them, especially since we already have 3 active point guards.

Like I said, my issue is not with Doc activating Thornwell over Milos, necessarily, since there was justification for that. I just think we should have let Gallinari fully recuperate as well as rest Lou since he was under the weather. Also, assuming he was healthy, this would have been a perfect game to start Robinson for his 3-point shooting, especially if Gallo needed the rest.

Doc has shown no issue playing three guard lineups in the past. What 3 active point guards ? Lou isn’t a point guard he’s a scorer first with some playmaking skills , Bradley and Beverly do the exact same thing Wallace and Thornwell are suppose to be able to do. 4 guys that are suppose to be defense first and hit open shots seems redundant when none of them are true wing players.

That’s the point there was no justification for not playing a player that gives you different skill set when just the night before you needed that skill set to win the game. This is not that difficult to argue it was ridiculous to not have Milo active when the exact situation happened the next night that you neede Milo the night before.

Docs lack of creativity and blatant disregard for what happen in the Hawks game bit him. Nothing about Thornwell or Wallace play as of late made it necessary to have both of them active.

Even with Gallo and Williams playing he had the choice to limit them if he wanted to but the required adjustments. I’m not buying Doc to consistently be on his toes to adjust when he played the worse player on the floor 32 mins.

[og15]

Maybe they just chose to activate the young guns over the old man

[TheNewEra]

Maybe they just chose to activate the young guns over the old man

Old man won the last game and it’s not like Thornwell and Wallace both can’t play just pick one

[Ranma]

Doc has shown no issue playing three guard lineups in the past. What 3 active point guards ? Lou isn’t a point guard he’s a scorer first with some playmaking skills , Bradley and Beverly do the exact same thing Wallace and Thornwell are suppose to be able to do. 4 guys that are suppose to be defense first and hit open shots seems redundant when none of them are true wing players.

That’s the point there was no justification for not playing a player that gives you different skill set when just the night before you needed that skill set to win the game. This is not that difficult to argue it was ridiculous to not have Milo active when the exact situation happened the next night that you neede Milo the night before.

Docs lack of creativity and blatant disregard for what happen in the Hawks game bit him. Nothing about Thornwell or Wallace play as of late made it necessary to have both of them active.

Even with Gallo and Williams playing he had the choice to limit them if he wanted to but the required adjustments. I’m not buying Doc to consistently be on his toes to adjust when he played the worse player on the floor 32 mins.

Come on, man. You're harping on things again without seeing the big picture and I'm even in agreement with you that I would have liked to see Milos play last night. I just see the justification not to play him and why Doc chose others. My issue is that he unnecessarily played guys who were not 100% healthy, which showed on the court against a troubled and dysfunctional Wizards team.

Avery and Beverly are 6'1" and 6'2", respectively. Do you really think they should be guarding small forwards? It's bad enough that they have to guard shooting guards. Thornwell and Wallace are both listed at 6'5", so they at least have the length to get away with guarding small forwards. Shai may be 6'7", but risking his development at this point by having him guard small forwards extensively is not something that appeals to me at all. Beverley, Bradley and Gilgeous-Alexander are effectively 3 point guards on the roster who all just happen to be able to guard shooting guards due to various reasons.

You keep harping on this Milos winning the game bit when everyone else has contributed more in that department. Yes, he was a stabilizing presence against the Hawks but he only played 10 minutes and didn't score any points while having 2 rebounds and an assist. I agree with you that we could have used his stabilizing and playmaking presence against the Wizards last night, but let's not act like he was the only person who has helped us win games when this has been a team effort throughout the season.

Despite your argument to the contrary, Thornwell and Wallace have been more effective as a duo than Milos by himself and, as I pointed out, they have length even over Milos despite him being the same height as those two. Teodosic is our best playmaker but he's proven to not be a great defender and has questionable conditioning for the NBA, which has limited him. It's the reason why he's an afterthought in trade discussions by other teams. Even Wallace has generated more interest than him.

I'd actually like to see Milos play more but I'm not at all advocating that he be a regular in the rotation. I just happen to think that Doc should have activated him last night because of the illness to two players. Teodosic doesn't have a long-term future here, so other players have priority to be developed at the very least to increase their trade value.

[og15]

Maybe they just chose to activate the young guns over the old man

Old man won the last game and it’s not like Thornwell and Wallace both can’t play just pick one

Yea, they could have activated him, but it is what it is, Milos can be hit and miss, and they probably felt that the guards on Washington would be a bad matchup for him. I wouldn’t linger too much on it tbh, on to the next one.

[Max Headrom]

I really would like to enjoy this Clippers forum but instead of talking about the game, it starts going into this back and forth between posters that have an agenda when it comes to certain players or Doc. The team is doing much better than I think any of us would've imagined. They lost a tough game where fatigue was definitely a factor playing 3 road games in 4 nights. These games happen, Clippers are still in a good spot and it's a long season. Players and coaches are not gonna always be on their game, that's just sports in general.