RJ Barrett

[Duke4life831]

I actually don't mind RJ chucking.

Chucking as a young prospect is a major predictor of superstardom. I think he has been missing a lot of shots he usually makes recently, a cold streak if you want to call it.

The first game is the only game where he has shot at least 50% from he field. The last 4 games he has shot under 40%. 3 out of the 6 games he has more shots than points. He has a 48 TS% while Cam has a 60 TS% and Zion has a 67 TS%. RJ has taken 125 shots while Cam and Zion combined have taken144 shots.

I'm fine with him being a gunner and a very aggressive guy. But there is a fine line you have to walk and right now he has crossed that line and then some. Right how his tunnel vision and selfish play is hurting the team and more importantly for him, it's hurting his draft stock.

This is from the latest from the DX guys,

"Some scouts believe the No. 1 pick will come down to Williamson and Cam Reddish, not RJ Barrett."

A think a big reason in this has been Zion and Cam's ability to fit in and not need to dominate the ball to make an impact. While RJ is looking like a massive ball hog at the moment.

[CptCrunch]

I actually don't mind RJ chucking.

Chucking as a young prospect is a major predictor of superstardom. I think he has been missing a lot of shots he usually makes recently, a cold streak if you want to call it.

The first game is the only game where he has shot at least 50% from he field. The last 4 games he has shot under 40%. 3 out of the 6 games he has more shots than points. He has a 48 TS% while Cam has a 60 TS% and Zion has a 67 TS%. RJ has taken 125 shots while Cam and Zion combined have taken144 shots.

I'm fine with him being a gunner and a very aggressive guy. But there is a fine line you have to walk and right now he has crossed that line and then some. Right how his tunnel vision and selfish play is hurting the team and more importantly for him, it's hurting his draft stock.

This is from the latest from the DX guys,

"Some scouts believe the No. 1 pick will come down to Williamson and Cam Reddish, not RJ Barrett."

A think a big reason in this has been Zion and Cam's ability to fit in and not need to dominate the ball to make an impact. While RJ is looking like a massive ball hog at the moment.

It hurts Duke the team. It doesn't hurt RJ the basketball player from a developmental prospective. Might hurt his draft stock if he chucks for a whole season, few games like this doesn't matter imo.

[Spens1]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

[NBA Fan 1234]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

Interestingly enough, neither Wiggins nor RJ are the most skilled in their respective draft classes. Even without hindsight, JoJo was far far away the most skilled player in that class (myself, and many other people had him as the only tier 1 player in the class). In this class, Cam is the most skilled, although I have him in tier 2 behind tier Zion but still comfortably ahead of RJ (who has actually sunk on my board and is barely above my next two).

This idea that RJ is some very skilled, or even skilled, player has always been overblown. He's not particularly skilled - he's strong and is a good passer (when he wants to pass it), but that's really it.

[Funcrusher]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

lol, i keep hearing this being phrase being parroted around, from these boards to the ESPN talking heads. I'm really at a loss to understand it. The dude can hardly dribble, isn't a great finisher in traffic and can't shoot. He really does nothing better than Zion, and probably Cam as well (Barrett's probably been more effective getting in the paint/finishing to this point, but with Cam's struggles there that's not a particularly high bar being set).

I don't know if people do this to prop up this weak draft class or what, but he's not a generational prospect, not even close. And if he continues his ballhog tendencies, he's going to find himself drafted outside the tier 1/2 prospects, or at least that's what should happen.

[Spens1]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

Interestingly enough, neither Wiggins nor RJ are the most skilled in their respective draft classes. Even without hindsight, JoJo was far far away the most skilled player in that class (myself, and many other people had him as the only tier 1 player in the class). In this class, Cam is the most skilled, although I have him in tier 2 behind tier Zion but still comfortably ahead of RJ (who has actually sunk on my board and is barely above my next two).

This idea that RJ is some very skilled, or even skilled, player has always been overblown. He's not particularly skilled - he's strong and is a good passer (when he wants to pass it), but that's really it.

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

[NBA Fan 1234]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

Interestingly enough, neither Wiggins nor RJ are the most skilled in their respective draft classes. Even without hindsight, JoJo was far far away the most skilled player in that class (myself, and many other people had him as the only tier 1 player in the class). In this class, Cam is the most skilled, although I have him in tier 2 behind tier Zion but still comfortably ahead of RJ (who has actually sunk on my board and is barely above my next two).

This idea that RJ is some very skilled, or even skilled, player has always been overblown. He's not particularly skilled - he's strong and is a good passer (when he wants to pass it), but that's really it.

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

34th percentile on jumpers (31%), 19th percentile around basket (43%), 23rd percentile on catch and shoot (26.7%), 43rd percentile overall on offense. He gets to the hoop, yes, but he’s almost entirely dependent on strength - he’s stiff and has little wiggle in his games. On top of that, he has atrocious shot IQ. He can pass when he wants to, but doesn’t seem to want to pass often (and has been shot heavy his entire pre-college career). Not sure who you’ve been watching, but it sure as hell isnt RJ.

He’s far from the most complete. Like, I don’t get how ANYONE can say that. Cam is the most skilled on both ends. RJ is a name that carries _____? because he’s viewed as a winner. He has that Kobe mentality without the skill. I seriously doubt you’ve seen RJ this year, but if you say you have, I’ll obviously take your word for it and just disagree vehemently.

Back to the main point, though - RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype, but he is absolutely NOT the most skilled player.

Also not sure what top 5-6 you see defending really well, but that’s another question.

[NBA Fan 1234]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

lol, i keep hearing this being phrase being parroted around, from these boards to the ESPN talking heads. I'm really at a loss to understand it. The dude can hardly dribble, isn't a great finisher in traffic and can't shoot. He really does nothing better than Zion, and probably Cam as well (Barrett's probably been more effective getting in the paint/finishing to this point, but with Cam's struggles there that's not a particularly high bar being set).

I don't know if people do this to prop up this weak draft class or what, but he's not a generational prospect, not even close. And if he continues his ballhog tendencies, he's going to find himself drafted outside the tier 1/2 prospects, or at least that's what should happen.

Interesting you say the bold because I’d bet if Coach k put the ball in Zion’s hands as often as he puts it in RJ’s, the results would be far better. He’s quicker off the attack, is a much better finisher, and is way more willing to pass.

[CptCrunch]

Interestingly enough, neither Wiggins nor RJ are the most skilled in their respective draft classes. Even without hindsight, JoJo was far far away the most skilled player in that class (myself, and many other people had him as the only tier 1 player in the class). In this class, Cam is the most skilled, although I have him in tier 2 behind tier Zion but still comfortably ahead of RJ (who has actually sunk on my board and is barely above my next two).

This idea that RJ is some very skilled, or even skilled, player has always been overblown. He's not particularly skilled - he's strong and is a good passer (when he wants to pass it), but that's really it.

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

34th percentile on jumpers (31%), 19th percentile around basket (43%), 23rd percentile on catch and shoot (26.7%), 43rd percentile overall on offense. He gets to the hoop, yes, but he’s almost entirely dependent on strength - he’s stiff and has little wiggle in his games. On top of that, he has atrocious shot IQ. He can pass when he wants to, but doesn’t seem to want to pass often (and has been shot heavy his entire pre-college career). Not sure who you’ve been watching, but it sure as hell isnt RJ.

He’s far from the most complete. Like, I don’t get how ANYONE can say that. Cam is the most skilled on both ends. RJ is a name that carries _____? because he’s viewed as a winner. He has that Kobe mentality without the skill. I seriously doubt you’ve seen RJ this year, but if you say you have, I’ll obviously take your word for it and just disagree vehemently.

Back to the main point, though - RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype, but he is absolutely NOT the most skilled player.

Also not sure what top 5-6 you see defending really well, but that’s another question.

Wiggins is a motorless loser who doesn't care about basketball. RJ is one of those die trying shooting players like Westbrook. Nothing alike aside from both being Canadian.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

34th percentile on jumpers (31%), 19th percentile around basket (43%), 23rd percentile on catch and shoot (26.7%), 43rd percentile overall on offense. He gets to the hoop, yes, but he’s almost entirely dependent on strength - he’s stiff and has little wiggle in his games. On top of that, he has atrocious shot IQ. He can pass when he wants to, but doesn’t seem to want to pass often (and has been shot heavy his entire pre-college career). Not sure who you’ve been watching, but it sure as hell isnt RJ.

He’s far from the most complete. Like, I don’t get how ANYONE can say that. Cam is the most skilled on both ends. RJ is a name that carries _____? because he’s viewed as a winner. He has that Kobe mentality without the skill. I seriously doubt you’ve seen RJ this year, but if you say you have, I’ll obviously take your word for it and just disagree vehemently.

Back to the main point, though - RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype, but he is absolutely NOT the most skilled player.

Also not sure what top 5-6 you see defending really well, but that’s another question.

Wiggins is a motorless loser who doesn't care about basketball. RJ is one of those die trying shooting players like Westbrook. Nothing alike aside from both being Canadian.

“RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype.” I mean, they also both have major finishing issues, passing issues, inefficiencies issues, defensive issues, etc...but that wasn’t my point. Point was they’re overhyped.

Just for **** and giggles, he has more in common with Wiggins so far this year than Westbrook.

[Funcrusher]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

lol, i keep hearing this being phrase being parroted around, from these boards to the ESPN talking heads. I'm really at a loss to understand it. The dude can hardly dribble, isn't a great finisher in traffic and can't shoot. He really does nothing better than Zion, and probably Cam as well (Barrett's probably been more effective getting in the paint/finishing to this point, but with Cam's struggles there that's not a particularly high bar being set).

I don't know if people do this to prop up this weak draft class or what, but he's not a generational prospect, not even close. And if he continues his ballhog tendencies, he's going to find himself drafted outside the tier 1/2 prospects, or at least that's what should happen.

Interesting you say the bold because I’d wager if Coach k put the ball in Zion’s hands as often as he puts it in RJ’s, I’d bet the results would be far better. He’s quicker off the attack, is a much better finisher, and is way more willing to pass.

yeah, i honestly think K really believes RJ is their most capable on-ball playmaker, and i have no idea why. And he probably gives Zion the least amount of opportunities out of the 4 freshmen to create in the half court, which is even more baffling to me, and i believe that is the main thing that perpetuates the narrative that RJ is skilled and Zion is not.

RJ, quite simply, has the ball in his hands way more than Zion, giving some the impression that he's doing more with his touches, when he's really doing less on far greater volume. I think people knock Zion for producing and being highly effective in the limited role that's he's been given thus far, and conflate that with him not being capable as a primary ball handler. I've not seen anything to suggest he can't handle a more ball dominant role, on the contrary i think his drive and kick ability already translates well to the NBA. RJ, on the other hand, is going to have a much harder time creating separation for himself against NBA level defenders unless he cleans up his handle/learns to shoot. Not that I think he can't improve, but he definitely has a ways to go.

[Spens1]

Interestingly enough, neither Wiggins nor RJ are the most skilled in their respective draft classes. Even without hindsight, JoJo was far far away the most skilled player in that class (myself, and many other people had him as the only tier 1 player in the class). In this class, Cam is the most skilled, although I have him in tier 2 behind tier Zion but still comfortably ahead of RJ (who has actually sunk on my board and is barely above my next two).

This idea that RJ is some very skilled, or even skilled, player has always been overblown. He's not particularly skilled - he's strong and is a good passer (when he wants to pass it), but that's really it.

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

34th percentile on jumpers (31%), 19th percentile around basket (43%), 23rd percentile on catch and shoot (26.7%), 43rd percentile overall on offense. He gets to the hoop, yes, but he’s almost entirely dependent on strength - he’s stiff and has little wiggle in his games. On top of that, he has atrocious shot IQ. He can pass when he wants to, but doesn’t seem to want to pass often (and has been shot heavy his entire pre-college career). Not sure who you’ve been watching, but it sure as hell isnt RJ.

He’s far from the most complete. Like, I don’t get how ANYONE can say that. Cam is the most skilled on both ends. RJ is a name that carries _____? because he’s viewed as a winner. He has that Kobe mentality without the skill. I seriously doubt you’ve seen RJ this year, but if you say you have, I’ll obviously take your word for it and just disagree vehemently.

Back to the main point, though - RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype, but he is absolutely NOT the most skilled player.

Also not sure what top 5-6 you see defending really well, but that’s another question.

Again, a lot of those issues i'd say are more down to mental things than actual ability itself. Its the same with Wiggins, if you put someone with a fantastic b-ball mind and put them inside Wiggins body they'd be a MVP caliber S.G.

Barrett's issue so far i'd say comes down to mentality and B ball IQ it would seem. Hence why i'd still probably take him #1 even though its a risk trying to teach a player to play the right way rather than chucking (he'd need to go to a culture of accountability and a winning franchise with a coach that would set him straight, if he got those things right, he fulfils his potential).

[Spens1]

Also do Duke have an actual P.G that they can use for playmaking, not convinced any of the three should be the primary ball handler

[NBA Fan 1234]

Can shoot, can pass, gets to the hoop nicely, his skillset in theory for a S.G is basically all you could ask for, minus defense, which he is getting exposed for now (and will see him slip in this draft, given basically in the top 5-6 can defend really well).

Cam is getting overlooked big time though i will say that, Zion's athleticism has helped but he has come in a fair bit more skilled than i expected, i still have RJ #1 though due to being somewhat the more complete player out of the 3 so far.

34th percentile on jumpers (31%), 19th percentile around basket (43%), 23rd percentile on catch and shoot (26.7%), 43rd percentile overall on offense. He gets to the hoop, yes, but he’s almost entirely dependent on strength - he’s stiff and has little wiggle in his games. On top of that, he has atrocious shot IQ. He can pass when he wants to, but doesn’t seem to want to pass often (and has been shot heavy his entire pre-college career). Not sure who you’ve been watching, but it sure as hell isnt RJ.

He’s far from the most complete. Like, I don’t get how ANYONE can say that. Cam is the most skilled on both ends. RJ is a name that carries _____? because he’s viewed as a winner. He has that Kobe mentality without the skill. I seriously doubt you’ve seen RJ this year, but if you say you have, I’ll obviously take your word for it and just disagree vehemently.

Back to the main point, though - RJ is like Wiggins in that he is all hype, but he is absolutely NOT the most skilled player.

Also not sure what top 5-6 you see defending really well, but that’s another question.

Again, a lot of those issues i'd say are more down to mental things than actual ability itself. Its the same with Wiggins, if you put someone with a fantastic b-ball mind and put them inside Wiggins body they'd be a MVP caliber S.G.

Barrett's issue so far i'd say comes down to mentality and B ball IQ it would seem. Hence why i'd still probably take him #1 even though its a risk trying to teach a player to play the right way rather than chucking (he'd need to go to a culture of accountability and a winning franchise with a coach that would set him straight, if he got those things right, he fulfils his potential).

Sorry, but his inability to create space, finish, hit jumpers, take smart shots, defend, or unwillingness to pass is not mental. That’s a garbage cop out.

Also do Duke have an actual P.G that they can use for playmaking, not convinced any of the three should be the primary ball handler

Tre Jones. Congratulations, you outed yourself as not having watched Duke this year.

[skiz2]

In high school it was hard to notice it because he was far and away the best player on the court each time he stepped foot on it. However, those of you all making the Harrison Barnes comparisons, I wanna give you all a hat tip. He moves the same way, he has more ball skills than Barnes, but they are similar athletes and make similar movements.

I have soured on him a bit. I would hate to play with him.

[peZt]

In high school it was hard to notice it because he was far and away the best player on the court each time he stepped foot on it. However, those of you all making the Harrison Barnes comparisons, I wanna give you all a hat tip. He moves the same way, he has more ball skills than Barnes, but they are similar athletes and make similar movements.

I have soured on him a bit. I would hate to play with him.

Yep, only with worse shooting, worse defense and way more selfishness. I'm not even sure he has better ball skills. And remeber, Harrison Barnes was supposed to be the next great thing at SF as well. I remember everyone marvelling at his skill level when he was in High School. Beeing hyped af in High School isn't indicative of anything. More so it makes people ignore certain red flags because they think "Well he must've been the #1 player in HS for a reason". I certainly don't think he'd be considered top 3 if he didn't have all that hype coming in.

[nolang1]

He hadn’t lost a basketball game in well over a year by doing it himself, so I trust that he’s enough of a competitor that he’ll adjust following the much-needed dose of adversity. Still, the refs very well could have called a foul on that last play against Gonzaga and it’s not like throwing it to Zion (jogging up the court behind the play) was a better option there.

RJ certainly needs to trust his teammates more, but from watching Zion his conditioning is such that I don’t think he could handle that much of a bigger role.

[Duke4life831]

Also do Duke have an actual P.G that they can use for playmaking, not convinced any of the three should be the primary ball handler

What? Tre Jones is their PG. I'm not sure how you can ask for more of an actual PG than Tre Jones. He has played that role close to perfection so far this year. He has played really good defense, has hit the open 3s, has a 5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.

[VanWest82]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

lol, i keep hearing this being phrase being parroted around, from these boards to the ESPN talking heads. I'm really at a loss to understand it. The dude can hardly dribble, isn't a great finisher in traffic and can't shoot. He really does nothing better than Zion, and probably Cam as well (Barrett's probably been more effective getting in the paint/finishing to this point, but with Cam's struggles there that's not a particularly high bar being set).

I don't know if people do this to prop up this weak draft class or what, but he's not a generational prospect, not even close. And if he continues his ballhog tendencies, he's going to find himself drafted outside the tier 1/2 prospects, or at least that's what should happen.

I'm not personally a fan of RJ's game, but it's way too early to say this stuff. RJ can't dribble, but he's better at dribbling than both Zion and Cam. Zion is a more explosive driver in the half court, and it's clear he's the obvious number one guy in this class. RJ could easily develop into an all star. Why does he have to be a generational guy or bust? Who was saying that? He looks like more talented Tim Hardaway Jr with no fear or conscience. Cam looks great too but he disappears sometimes. If anything, he's the better Wiggins comp, but I think they're all going to be really good.

[Funcrusher]

from watching a few highlights and some of the games, i'm starting to get an Andrew Wiggins vibe, in the sense, he's still the best prospect in the draft by a distance in terms of skillset, but may be a selfish player which will not be good in the NBA (i mean look at how wasted Wiggins potential has been thus far).

lol, i keep hearing this being phrase being parroted around, from these boards to the ESPN talking heads. I'm really at a loss to understand it. The dude can hardly dribble, isn't a great finisher in traffic and can't shoot. He really does nothing better than Zion, and probably Cam as well (Barrett's probably been more effective getting in the paint/finishing to this point, but with Cam's struggles there that's not a particularly high bar being set).

I don't know if people do this to prop up this weak draft class or what, but he's not a generational prospect, not even close. And if he continues his ballhog tendencies, he's going to find himself drafted outside the tier 1/2 prospects, or at least that's what should happen.

I'm not personally a fan of RJ's game, but it's way too early to say this stuff. RJ can't dribble, but he's better at dribbling than both Zion and Cam. Zion is a more explosive driver in the half court, and it's clear he's the obvious number one guy in this class. RJ could easily develop into an all star. Why does he have to be a generational guy or bust? Who was saying that? He looks like more talented Tim Hardaway Jr with no fear or conscience. Cam looks great too but he disappears sometimes. If anything, he's the better Wiggins comp, but I think they're all going to be really good.

And where in my post did I call RJ a bust? He's a good prospect, just not generational like i've seen people claim on RealGM. That was the whole point of my post.

And no, RJ does not have a better handle than Zion and definitely not Cam. If he did he'd be a totally different prospect than he is now.