Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[WellYouKnow]

Just took a look at the other games this window, and Brazil vs the Dominican is probably the most important to us I would think.

A Brazil win would pretty much clinch it for us assuming we beat Chile in February. DOM has Venezuela and Brazil in the February window and it'd be hard to imagine they win both those games.

[mojo13]

Just took a look at the other games this window, and Brazil vs the Dominican is probably the most important to us I would think.

A Brazil win would pretty much clinch it for us assuming we beat Chile in February. DOM has Venezuela and Brazil in the February window and it'd be hard to imagine they win both those games.

Very real possibility that Brazil and Venezuela, if already qaulified, send substandard teams in Feb. DR has a weakened team this window and Brazil is a bit better - we should see Brazil win that one.

It would be fantastic to pick up a win this window and leave nothing to chance. But even if we go 0-2 here, we fully control our destiny with games at home.

[SharoneWright]

Stauskas rising. Reinstating himself as a key piece for the NT going forward. Saucy!

[SharoneWright]

Pure eye candy:

Watch on YouTube

[WellYouKnow]

Anyone notice that Jermaine Anderson is a coach with the national team now?

Pretty cool of them to give a spot to a guy who's shown up every time he was asked for the past 15ish years.

Gonna assume that he's officially retired now too

[aminiaturebuddha]

Anyone notice that Jermaine Anderson is a coach with the national team now?

Pretty cool of them to give a spot to a guy who's shown up every time he was asked for the past 15ish years.

Gonna assume that he's officially retired now too

Great to see. Maybe they can do something similar with Joel Anthony, who's also gone above and beyond the call of duty for the national team (also, hopefully we won't need him to play in many more games).

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic - if EL players were allowed to play who has the most EL players? Aren’t half to a third of all EL players American?
Don’t tell me they are all trash and the US couldnt pull from half of the top 30 players in the EL.

If you think that is possible, then you need to watch some EuroLeague games. There have been few Americans that were leaders in EuroLeague (even fewer that were leaders in good teams), and very few that were any kind of actual real legit stars.

Let's get some perspective for a Canadian reference, Pangos averages 7.6 points and 3.9 assists in EuroLeague, and is basically mostly just a typical rotation player in a big club like Barca. Well, he's much better than most Americans in EuroLeague.

At any given time, there are very few American players in EuroLeague that are good enough to lead a national team to anything decent. Bo McCalebb was probably the best naturalized American player in a European national team recently, and he had like one good tournament, in a team that was already good without him. Even the so-called "superstars" by Americans are typically just role players in any kind of good team (Keith Langford in Panathinaikos for example).

Best case scenario is probably like how recently Anthony Randolph was a 4th lead player on Slovenia, and helped them to win a watered down tournament, thanks to these new schedules.

USA could bring all the American EuroLeague players it wanted and it would not offset that most of the other teams have better EuroLeague players. There is a huge myth in USA that American players in Europe are the best......they are not. All through EuroLeague basketball history there was only American guys like,

Dominique Wilkins
Nick Galis
Bob McAdoo
Joe Arlauckas
Wally Szczerbiak Sr.
Tal Brody
Miki Berkovich
David Rivers
Wayne Brabender
Cliff Luyk
Bob Morse

Maybe a few others, but that's all that comes to mind right now that were really among the best players EuroLeague has had.

Then some that were probably below that level, but were still decisive players (not necessarily in good teams though), like:

Anthony Parker
Walter Berry
Mike Batiste
Roy Tarpley
Michael Ray Richardson
Alphonso Ford
Mike D'antoni
Pete Mickeal
Tyus Edney
JR Holden
Trajan Langdon

And if you would notice, almost all of them from the 1960s to 1990s......and only Parker, Mickeal, and Batiste from the last 15 years or so.

In recent years, say the last 10 years, when the level of EuroLeague is considerably higher (the skill level, defense, athleticism dwarfs what it was in the 90s even)..........the "star" American players have been guys like,

Alan Anderson
Chuck Eidson
Jeremy Pargo
Devin Smith
James Gist
Chris Singleton
Terrell McIntyre
Sonny Weems
Anthony Randolph
Keith Langford
Kyle Hines
Bryant Dunston
Josh Childress
Matt Lojeski
Brad Wanamaker
Shane Larkin
Tyrese Rice
Taylor Rochestie
Drew Nicholas
Bobby Brown
Bo McCalebb
Ekpe Udoh
Malcolm Delaney
Nick Calathes

etc., and some more similar level type players...

---> next post --->

[Mirotic12]

Guys like that. Guys that could never lead any national team to any real success against any decent competition level. Just look at how USA did at 2015 Pan American Games. Playing against B selections, and with so-called "American EuroLeague stars", they finished in 3rd place. Brazil won the tournament, with a definite B selection.

The best American player right now in EuroLeague is probably someone like Nick Calathes, Mike James, Scottie Wilkbekin......none of those players is even good enough to lead a stacked EuroLeague team to even a half way success like a EuroLeague Final Four loss.

NBA fans still view the EuroLeague as what it was 30 years ago........it's not that now. That's what the Chinese Basketball Association is now. NBA fans are still caught up on this "NBA has beens, undrafted college players, and G-League washouts go dominate in EuroLeague" nonsense.

USA roster at the 2015 Pan American Games, with a a bunch of these supposed "American stars in EuroLeague", and what you would probably argue are among those half of the top 30 players in EuroLeague........

American EuroLeague "stars" in bold:

Ron Baker
Malcolm Brogdon
Bobby Brown
Ryan Hollins
Keith Langford
Shawn Long
Taurean Prince
Anthony Randolph
Kaleb Tarczewski
Melo Trimble
Denzel Valentine
Damien Wilkins

That team was 3-2 and finished in 3rd place out of 8 teams, playing against a bunch of B and C selections for Americas region teams.......a team with NBA rookies, NCAA stars, former NBA players, and 4 of these as advertised in US sports media, "American EuroLeague stars", was nothing more than mediocre at a sub-par level tournament.

Because the reality is, there are actually only about 2-3 truly good American players in EuroLeague at any given time, and sometimes there are not even one. It's just an enormous myth that comes from US sports media and fans that "every scrub from NBA and G-League, and every NCAA star, is dominating in EuroLeague". It's really one of the most bizarre myths in sports.

[Hair Canada]

Guys like that. Guys that could never lead any national team to any real success against any decent competition level. Just look at how USA did at 2015 Pan American Games. Playing against B selections, and with so-called "American EuroLeague stars", they finished in 3rd place. Brazil won the tournament, with a definite B selection.

The best American player right now in EuroLeague is probably someone like Nick Calathes, Mike James, Scottie Wilkbekin......none of those players is even good enough to lead a stacked EuroLeague team to even a half way success like a EuroLeague Final Four loss.

NBA fans still view the EuroLeague as what it was 30 years ago........it's not that now. That's what the Chinese Basketball Association is now. NBA fans are still caught up on this "NBA has beens, undrafted college players, and G-League washouts go dominate in EuroLeague" nonsense.

USA roster at the 2015 Pan American Games, with a a bunch of these supposed "American stars in EuroLeague", and what you would probably argue are among those half of the top 30 players in EuroLeague........

American EuroLeague "stars" in bold:

Ron Baker
Malcolm Brogdon
Bobby Brown
Ryan Hollins
Keith Langford
Shawn Long
Taurean Prince
Anthony Randolph
Kaleb Tarczewski
Melo Trimble
Denzel Valentine
Damien Wilkins

That team was 3-2 and finished in 3rd place out of 8 teams, playing against a bunch of B and C selections for Americas region teams.......a team with NBA rookies, NCAA stars, former NBA players, and 4 of these as advertised in US sports media, "American EuroLeague stars", was nothing more than mediocre at a sub-par level tournament.

Because the reality is, there are actually only about 2-3 truly good American players in EuroLeague at any given time, and sometimes there are not even one. It's just an enormous myth that comes from US sports media and fans that "every scrub from NBA and G-League, and every NCAA star, is dominating in EuroLeague". It's really one of the most bizarre myths in sports.

Mirotic, you make some good points. Specifically, I sympathize with the critique on the terrible FIBA qualifying system and with the point about US players not necessarily being the best in the Euroleague. But then, as you often do, you go on and over-sell your point.

The fact that the best players in the Euroleague are not all American (I think some are), does not mean that there are no very good Americans there. This is not a case of either "a superstar" or "complete trash. Off the top of my head, I can think of a list of very good American Euroleague players, who could certainly help an American team: Mike James, Shane Larkin, Nate Wolters, Jordan Mickey, Nigel Williams-Goss, Cory Higgins, Brandon Davies, will Klyburn, and there are others.

These, together with some good players from the G-league, would make a pretty decent team. Would this team be good enough to beat the likes of Panama, Uruguay, and Argentina, the three teams that the US still has to face in these qualifying games? You can't say for sure, but I would think it would at the very least be a heavy favorite against the first two (I'm not aware of any Euroleague stars from these countries). I would also put my money on them against Argentina. In short, there's no way a US team would not qualify whether Euroleague players are allowed to play or not.

Now, would such a team also be in the running for a medal in the WC? I would think not (although it's not unthinkable), but this has become a hypothetical question ever since the US has decided to send NBA players to these competitions.

[Hair Canada]

Excellent games in the last two days for a couple of Canadian NBA players:

TT with 16 points, 20 rebounds and 4 steals today (18, 13, and 2 yesterday), completing three consecutive double-double games. In these two games, Cleveland defeated two good playoff teams in Philadelphia and Houston.

Jamal with 22 points, 8 assists and 8 rebounds today (16, 6, and 5 yesterday). He’s still not shooting very efficiently, but lately, he’s been passing much better. Over the last 5 games, he has almost 7 assists a game.

Lyles also with two excellent games in the Denver wins (today at OKC): 22 yesterday and 16 with perfect shooting from the field today.

And Co-Jo with a very good game yesterday against San Antonio: 18 points and 7 assists.

And who didn’t join the party?

Wiggins with 9 points yesterday (4/14) and a what I believe is a career-worst today: 0 points on 0/12 shooting. In 29 minutes on the floor, he also had one assist, one rebound, and one turnover. Over the last four games, without the “debilitating” presence of Butler by his side, He has 9 points a game, shooting 16 of 59 (!) from the field, going to the line twice (in four games!), and contributing little in other categories. I don’t know what happened to him, but anyone still willing to argue that this is one of our top-3 players?

A year ago, the Timberwolves traded LaVine (and Dunn, and the pick that yielded Markkanen) to Chicago for Butler, gambling on Wiggins and Butler to lead them to the promised land. Clearly, the gamble on Butler failed. But how about the one on Wiggins? LaVine today with 28 points, 8 rebounds and 4 assists (25.5, 5, and 4.5 for the season). And he’s 4-year contract is about half that of Wiggins…

[Too Late Crew]

Pure eye candy:

Watch on YouTube

SMOOTH

[slothrop8]

Mirotic - if EL players were allowed to play who has the most EL players? Aren’t half to a third of all EL players American?
Don’t tell me they are all trash and the US couldnt pull from half of the top 30 players in the EL.

I assume you are just trolling for your own amusement at this point? The response you got was ludicrous nonsense even by the extremely high standards of ludicrous nonsense posts that have been set in the past.

Anyway, this article is for last year - so one year behind - but gives you an actual answer to your question.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/trademarks/541685/euroleague-34-home-countries-235-players/7/

The US had far and away the most players of any nation in Euroleague last year and comprised about 26% of the overall player pool. One need only to look at the leaderboard for minutes played this year and see about 50% of the guys in the Top 50 of mins played are American to make an assessment of the quality of those players. One could choose to interpret that data to suggest that Euroleague coaches desperately trying to win Euroleague games are playing inferior American players heavy minutes for reasons that remain inscrutable - and Americans appear all over the leaderboards of all statistical categories because their European teams are letting inferior American players run around and stat pad for reasons unknown - however I would suggest that this would not be the correct or most likely interpretation of that data.

[mojo13]

Mirotic - if EL players were allowed to play who has the most EL players? Aren’t half to a third of all EL players American?
Don’t tell me they are all trash and the US couldnt pull from half of the top 30 players in the EL.

I assume you are just trolling for your own amusement at this point? The response you got was ludicrous nonsense even by the extremely high standards of ludicrous nonsense posts that have been set in the past.

Anyway, this article is for last year - so one year behind - but gives you an actual answer to your question.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/trademarks/541685/euroleague-34-home-countries-235-players/7/

The US had far and away the most players of any nation in Euroleague last year and comprised about 26% of the overall player pool. One need only to look at the leaderboard for minutes played this year and see about 50% of the guys in the Top 50 of mins played are American to make an assessment of the quality of those players. One could choose to interpret that data to suggest that Euroleague coaches desperately trying to win Euroleague games are playing inferior American players heavy minutes for reasons that remain inscrutable - and Americans appear all over the leaderboards of all statistical categories because their European teams are letting inferior American players run around and stat pad for reasons unknown - however I would suggest that this would not be the correct or most likely interpretation of that data.

Yes. I think I am partially trolling for my own amusement. However at the same time I am quite fascinated by different perspectives and actually learn a good deal from him. You can't deny he is one of the few regular posters here that watches European leagues and is actually seeing some of our better Canadian kids live. Some of his opinions can get very hyperbolic, but you just need to be able to take it for what it is, and find the nuggets of truth in what he is saying.

[slothrop8]

Yes. I think I am partially trolling for my own amusement. However at the same time I am quite fascinated by different perspectives and actually learn a good deal from him. You can't deny he is one of the few regular posters here that watches European leagues and is actually seeing some of our better Canadian kids live. Some of his opinions can get very hyperbolic, but you just need to be able to take it for what it is, and find the nuggets of truth in what he is saying.

Sure, but if we had someone here who watched every Canadian Senior Men's team game for decades - watched more games than any of the rest of us - and they were constantly arguing that only the guys who played CIS were any good - all the ones who played NCAA ball instead were over-hyped and just put up empty stats - at what point does the bias undermine the value of the experience of watching more of the games?

[Mattd97]

Yes. I think I am partially trolling for my own amusement. However at the same time I am quite fascinated by different perspectives and actually learn a good deal from him. You can't deny he is one of the few regular posters here that watches European leagues and is actually seeing some of our better Canadian kids live. Some of his opinions can get very hyperbolic, but you just need to be able to take it for what it is, and find the nuggets of truth in what he is saying.

Sure, but if we had someone here who watched every Canadian Senior Men's team game for decades - watched more games than any of the rest of us - and they were constantly arguing that only the guys who played CIS were any good - all the ones who played NCAA ball instead were over-hyped and just put up empty stats - at what point does the bias undermine the value of the experience of watching more of the games?

Isnt that just team Canada's management?

[slothrop8]

Yes. I think I am partially trolling for my own amusement. However at the same time I am quite fascinated by different perspectives and actually learn a good deal from him. You can't deny he is one of the few regular posters here that watches European leagues and is actually seeing some of our better Canadian kids live. Some of his opinions can get very hyperbolic, but you just need to be able to take it for what it is, and find the nuggets of truth in what he is saying.

Sure, but if we had someone here who watched every Canadian Senior Men's team game for decades - watched more games than any of the rest of us - and they were constantly arguing that only the guys who played CIS were any good - all the ones who played NCAA ball instead were over-hyped and just put up empty stats - at what point does the bias undermine the value of the experience of watching more of the games?

Isnt that just team Canada's management?

Nicely done.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Man, Wiggins puzzles me. We all know the warts to his game and it was understandable when Butler came to the Wolves it would knock his usage down and maybe he wouldn't figure out a way to be effective. That being said, his drop in free throw rate and complete lack of aggressiveness attacking the rim has been puzzling. I remember the battles he would have every time he faced Gobert a couple seasons back. For better or worse he would at least have regular poster dunks. Now, he is just completely listless.

[SharoneWright]

Brandon Clarke off to a 7/7, 6 REB, 4 BLK 1st half tonight. Inferior competition, to be sure, but the kid is doing it.

[mojo13]

Brandon Clarke off to a 7/7, 6 REB, 4 BLK 1st half tonight. Inferior competition, to be sure, but the kid is doing it.

Ends with 18 (9/9) 8 REB, 5 BLK in 21 minutes in a 40 point blow out. Crazy, but he is likely going to lead the NCAA in blocked shots.

Clarke is clearly in my first round now with Barrett, Dort and Simi. And also in my top 5 for Canadian NCAA prospects. Like Simi and now Dort (and maybe NAW), I think Clarke has lottery potential. Of course, we are only 7-8 games in.

[Hair Canada]

Brandon Clarke off to a 7/7, 6 REB, 4 BLK 1st half tonight. Inferior competition, to be sure, but the kid is doing it.

Ends with 18 (9/9) 8 REB, 5 BLK in 21 minutes in a 40 point blow out. Crazy, but he is likely going to lead the NCAA in blocked shots.

Clarke is clearly in my first round now with Barrett, Dort and Simi. And also in my top 5 for Canadian NCAA prospects. Like Simi and now Dort (and maybe NAW), I think Clarke has lottery potential. Of course, we are only 7-8 games in.

Right on cue, ESPN with an updated mock draft. Barrett at 2, NAW 17, Dort 19, and Clarke in the first round for the first time ever, at 30. No Canadian in the second round of this mock draft.

Missing: Simi (I think if he continues like this, he will get into the first round), Brazdeikis (was 30 in the SI mock), Alexander and Shayok (both seniors and I think are playing well enough to be second rounders), Wigginton (injured), and Brissett (weak start to the season). Amazing depth.

By the way, Dort and Barrett currently lead all NCAA major conference freshmen in points per game.