GT #20: Rox at Wiz

[FAH1223]

The ideal solution would be to fire Grunfeld and let someone else try and fix the team. But that's not going to happen because Ted is an insufferable egomaniac who has to prove that he is the smartest person in the room. The only way it happens is if we lose... a lot.

There's enough blame for Ted to take a significant heap of it, too, but I'm not so sure this is actually true. Something is up with Ernie. He's just really, really hard to fire. Fans invariably hate him but owners don't. Ted didn't have any issues firing the Capitals GM and the Capitals were a way better run franchise than the Wizards were. There is something about Ernie that makes him sticky as a GM. If I had to guess, he keeps things as a closed door in-crowd of former players type of thing.

With the Knicks he presided over one of their better periods but they already had Ewing and Riley signed on when Ernie started. I'm not so sure much of that success can be attributed to him. When Riley left, things started falling apart and it was only sort of an accident of bungling ownership that they got him out of there. Dave Checketts considered Ernie one of his best friends and wanted no part of firing him but allegedly got an ultimatum from Dolan to fire either the coach or GM and all the players stood behind the coach. The Knicks have been awful since because Dolan is a hot mess of an owner but Grunfeld wasn't helping and only lost his job because of that bungling owner and a media spat between Grunfeld and Jeff Van Gundy that allegedly led Dolan to order one of them fired.

In Milwaukee, Bucks fans had to basically take to the streets in protest to get Grunfeld out. And that was one of the brief but better stretches the Bucks have seen but in that time he left them with a smoldering pile. Had the fans not revolted? Who knows.

In Washington? Ernie has a perfect market. A massive fanbase that will go to games regardless of how good the team actually is but not enough fan excitement to care if the team is actually good or not. He hires coaches that aren't going to fight with him now, which under any normal GM is actually a good thing but in this case eliminates one of the potential means of getting rid of him. And Ted actually isn't a bad owner, just a rather ordinary owner who is clueless about basketball and so defers to the people he pays to allegedly know basketball. We're basically waiting for Ted to decide he needs more and Ernie is to blame rather than the victim of circumstance or for the fans to collectively stop caring to the point where they stop going to games and/or publicly protest a LOT (which may in turn push Ted's line of thinking). I never get my hopes up too much at this point but I do think it could happen here. Who knows? They'll probably win just enough to buy Ernie more time. Waiting for Godot...

We need to do a campaign... ads on buses, ads around Chinatown, ANYTHING

Who's good at building a website? Paul Pressey of the Bucks board mentioned how he started SaveOurBucks... we need something like SaveOurBullets

[dobrojim]

I did my part, wearing a paper bag over my head at a game. That said
(I know I'm in all likelihood giving myself way too much credit, LOL)
since I wore the bag in the 1st half of the LAC game, we're 3-1
with the only loss being in TOR.

[DCZards]

If some team views Oubre as a missing piece/starting wing... I move him to cut the salary.

Whether you want to blow up this team or not, getting under the tax this year helps both paths forward.
I actually like Rivers in the locker room along with his general IQ and excitement for playing. Let him play 10-15 MPG and see if he settles in accordingly.
Trade Oubre & Morris (Smith too) to get out the tax this year... zero question

I sit in section 110...directly across from the Zards bench. It's interesting to watch the interaction between players and body language of players going into timeouts, during timeouts and coming out of timeouts. Two Zards appear to be the most talkative and supportive of their teammates--Jeff Green and Austin Rivers.

Last night, when Wall went after a ref to complain during a time out, Green pulled John away from the ref. Jeff then went over to the ref and calmly complained on Wall's behalf.

[dandridge 10]

Fire EG. Absolutely. The sooner the better.

Blow the team up and start over. Nah.

I don’t get this fantasy that you can blow up a team and 2-3 years from now that "new" team will be in the conference finals and competing for a championship ring. Heck, you’d be lucky to be in the playoffs 2-3 years from now if you blow the Zards up and start over.

I’m all for the possibility of trading a Wall, Beal or Porter if it meant adding some proven young NBA talent and a top five draft pick. But beyond that I’m all in for building on the core of Wall, Beal, Porter, Brown, Sato and Bryant (and Oubre if he proves to be worth re-signing) and, hopefully, a good rookie in 2019.

When this Zards team plays hard, smart and the right way (as they did last night against the Rockets) they are capable of beating all but maybe the top 6-7 NBA teams. The trick is getting them to play hard, smart and the right way every night...or at least most nights.

I'm not suggesting blowing it up completely. I would look to trade one of our core though, with my large preference to be Wall. His contract is going to be an anchor on this team for a long time. At some point, he is who he is. Wall is a fast and is a good playmaker, but he hurts us with his lack of effort on the defensive end, his decision making, lack of movement off the ball, and his shooting. I don't see most of that changing with a different coach. Btw, I realize it will be nearly impossible to move him, let alone get value in return. I would do it in a heartbeat for expirings and picks though.

[pcbothwel]

If some team views Oubre as a missing piece/starting wing... I move him to cut the salary.

Whether you want to blow up this team or not, getting under the tax this year helps both paths forward.
I actually like Rivers in the locker room along with his general IQ and excitement for playing. Let him play 10-15 MPG and see if he settles in accordingly.
Trade Oubre & Morris (Smith too) to get out the tax this year... zero question

I sit in section 110...directly across from the Zards bench. It's interesting to watch the interaction between players and body language of players going into timeouts, during timeouts and coming out of timeouts. Two Zards appear to be the most talkative and supportive of their teammates--Jeff Green and Austin Rivers.

Last night, when Wall went after a ref to complain during a time out, Green pulled John away from the ref. Jeff then went over to the ref and calmly complained on Wall's behalf.

Thanks Zards. I was hoping people would see what I meant and not devolve immediately to "Rivers is garbage..stats..etc"...
His shortcomings are obvious, but he always hustles and knows how to communicate.

TBH, We've had a history of coming up short and immaturity on this team. I actually believe a lot has to do with communication in both conflict and on-court tactics. Its one area Wall NEEDS to be better. Rivers, Sato, Green, etc. are all vocal and good at it.

Im hoping some GM views Morris as a "tough, stretch 4 on a cheap, expiring contract" and view him as a positive asset. He is playing like garbage most of the time and his antics are played out.

[Kanyewest]

Beat a bottom 3 team in the West at home in overtime. Needed Beal to play 50 minutes. Not really optimistic.

If the Wizards ended up losing the game, then the Rockets would have vaulted all the way to the 8th seed in the West. Crazy that the Jazz also have the 2nd worst team in the West.

That being said, the Wizards did beat the Clippers last week, who currently have the best record in the West during this stretch.

[NatP4]

If some team views Oubre as a missing piece/starting wing... I move him to cut the salary.

Whether you want to blow up this team or not, getting under the tax this year helps both paths forward.
I actually like Rivers in the locker room along with his general IQ and excitement for playing. Let him play 10-15 MPG and see if he settles in accordingly.
Trade Oubre & Morris (Smith too) to get out the tax this year... zero question

I sit in section 110...directly across from the Zards bench. It's interesting to watch the interaction between players and body language of players going into timeouts, during timeouts and coming out of timeouts. Two Zards appear to be the most talkative and supportive of their teammates--Jeff Green and Austin Rivers.

Last night, when Wall went after a ref to complain during a time out, Green pulled John away from the ref. Jeff then went over to the ref and calmly complained on Wall's behalf.

Thanks Zards. I was hoping people would see what I meant and not devolve immediately to "Rivers is garbage..stats..etc"...
His shortcomings are obvious, but he always hustles and knows how to communicate.

TBH, We've had a history of coming up short and immaturity on this team. I actually believe a lot has to do with communication in both conflict and on-court tactics. Its one area Wall NEEDS to be better. Rivers, Sato, Green, etc. are all vocal and good at it.

Im hoping some GM views Morris as a "tough, stretch 4 on a cheap, expiring contract" and view him as a positive asset. He is playing like garbage most of the time and his antics are played out.

I don’t disagree at all. Rivers is a team guy, no ego, plays the right way, he’s not an excuse guy, he just wants to win. We need guys like that. Just don’t play him 20 minutes. Play him like 10-12 and play Sato the real minutes. Rivers is god awful.

[payitforward]

Momentum for what? To continue on the treadmill of mediocrity? ... Our only hope for significant change is to be dreadful.

...the whole body of evidence which shows that this team is what it is... an average team which at its best is always going to be good enough to lock itself into year after year of mediocrity. I want more and the only way that is going to happen is change in the GM and personnel. Losing gives us the best chance of that happening. Call me a bad fan, I don't care.

I Don’t consider you a bad fan, but the truth is the wiz like 28 other teams, have NO CHANCE TO WIN A RING THIS YEAR. So why not enjoy good basketball for the sake of sport? ...I cant watch the wiz tank and enjoy it. ...I hate to admit this, and i will be called a bad fan, but i can live with just having a fun respectable basketball team. ....without a MVP caliber player no one wins a ring. ...So you either get lucky and draft or recruit a MVP to get a ring...OR you get better coaching and enjoy winning (games).... i want better coaching cause it seems more realistic that at least i will be able to root for a ok team and maybe just maybe we could steal one...but if not i had fun.

Neither of you is a bad fan as far as I can tell.

For sure, basketball is competition -- in which there's only one real prize, a title. But, it's also entertainment which is what makes a game like last night's so much fun to watch. We came back from 17 down, the last few minutes of regulation were incredibly tense & exciting, then we won in overtime. Incredible. I was on the edge of my seat!

Incredible but, from the other point of view, the competition point of view, kind of meaningless. They have literally no bench at all right now. Gary Clark, an undrafted rookie in June, was their best sub last night. I mean... Danuel House is NOT an NBA player; he's been cut from at least 3 teams. Michael Carter-Williams is a washout. Chriss is a bust, & Hartenstein is a rookie & totally useless right now.

Who cares? A win's a win, & we need wins. Plus, wins are fun. I'm with Cobra in that when the game starts I want us to win not lose.

But, I'm definitely not with Cobra in being satisfied with a "respectable" team. Not given the opportunities we've had to build something much better. & I don't know why I (or he) would criticize the coach & not the GM. Ernie specifically picked Scott Brooks. Ernie hired him. If you think he's no good, then who is responsible?

In short, why does Ernie get a pass?

[payitforward]

If some team views Oubre as a missing piece/starting wing... I move him to cut the salary.

Whether you want to blow up this team or not, getting under the tax this year helps both paths forward.
I actually like Rivers in the locker room along with his general IQ and excitement for playing. Let him play 10-15 MPG and see if he settles in accordingly.
Trade Oubre & Morris (Smith too) to get out the tax this year... zero question

I sit in section 110...directly across from the Zards bench. It's interesting to watch the interaction between players and body language of players going into timeouts, during timeouts and coming out of timeouts. Two Zards appear to be the most talkative and supportive of their teammates--Jeff Green and Austin Rivers.

Last night, when Wall went after a ref to complain during a time out, Green pulled John away from the ref. Jeff then went over to the ref and calmly complained on Wall's behalf.

Good God! You don't have to be a bad person to be a bad player!

I don't have anything against Austin Rivers. And, for that matter, when I say that Rivers is one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA, it's worth keeping in mind that even the worst player in the NBA is among the 500 or so best basketball players in the world!

Above all, any NBA player can have a terrific night. If I remember right, Randy Foye once scored 29 points in a single quarter.

Rivers had a terrific game the other night vs. the Pels.

As to Jeff Green, so far he is having the best season of his long career. He's getting 25% more defensive boards than career average & almost twice as many offensive boards. Plus he's shooting his best TS% ever -- 60.8%, vs. a career average of 53.2%. !!

[CobraCommander]

Momentum for what? To continue on the treadmill of mediocrity? ... Our only hope for significant change is to be dreadful.

...the whole body of evidence which shows that this team is what it is... an average team which at its best is always going to be good enough to lock itself into year after year of mediocrity. I want more and the only way that is going to happen is change in the GM and personnel. Losing gives us the best chance of that happening. Call me a bad fan, I don't care.

I Don’t consider you a bad fan, but the truth is the wiz like 28 other teams, have NO CHANCE TO WIN A RING THIS YEAR. So why not enjoy good basketball for the sake of sport? ...I cant watch the wiz tank and enjoy it. ...I hate to admit this, and i will be called a bad fan, but i can live with just having a fun respectable basketball team. ....without a MVP caliber player no one wins a ring. ...So you either get lucky and draft or recruit a MVP to get a ring...OR you get better coaching and enjoy winning (games).... i want better coaching cause it seems more realistic that at least i will be able to root for a ok team and maybe just maybe we could steal one...but if not i had fun.

Neither of you is a bad fan as far as I can tell.

For sure, basketball is competition -- in which there's only one real prize, a title. But, it's also entertainment which is what makes a game like last night's so much fun to watch. We came back from 17 down, the last few minutes of regulation were incredibly tense & exciting, then we won in overtime. Incredible. I was on the edge of my seat!

Incredible but, from the other point of view, the competition point of view, kind of meaningless. They have literally no bench at all right now. Gary Clark, an undrafted rookie in June, was their best sub last night. I mean... Danuel House is NOT an NBA player; he's been cut from at least 3 teams. Michael Carter-Williams is a washout. Chriss is a bust, & Hartenstein is a rookie & totally useless right now.

Who cares? A win's a win, & we need wins. Plus, wins are fun. I'm with Cobra in that when the game starts I want us to win not lose.

But, I'm definitely not with Cobra in being satisfied with a "respectable" team. Not given the opportunities we've had to build something much better. & I don't know why I (or he) would criticize the coach & not the GM. Ernie specifically picked Scott Brooks. Ernie hired him. If you think he's no good, then who is responsible?

In short, why does Ernie get a pass?

Erine does NOT get a pass. In fact Erine is complicit - when it comes to the wizards. If the parts are good but dont fit...Erine. If the coach cant coach and develop players...Erine. If the players are over paid...Erine. If the team isn’t respectable on and off the court...guess who? Erine. But once you have your team...it becomes the coaches job to do the best he can with the players he has...and thats not what we getting from Brooks.

On being ok with a respectable team- respectable would be the top 3-8 teams in NBA. You wouldnt take that? No off the court drama? No scandal? No guns in the locker room? No clowns on the court? You know...respectable?

[trast66]

I Don’t consider you a bad fan, but the truth is the wiz like 28 other teams, have NO CHANCE TO WIN A RING THIS YEAR. So why not enjoy good basketball for the sake of sport? ...I cant watch the wiz tank and enjoy it. ...I hate to admit this, and i will be called a bad fan, but i can live with just having a fun respectable basketball team. ....without a MVP caliber player no one wins a ring. ...So you either get lucky and draft or recruit a MVP to get a ring...OR you get better coaching and enjoy winning (games).... i want better coaching cause it seems more realistic that at least i will be able to root for a ok team and maybe just maybe we could steal one...but if not i had fun.

Neither of you is a bad fan as far as I can tell.

For sure, basketball is competition -- in which there's only one real prize, a title. But, it's also entertainment which is what makes a game like last night's so much fun to watch. We came back from 17 down, the last few minutes of regulation were incredibly tense & exciting, then we won in overtime. Incredible. I was on the edge of my seat!

Incredible but, from the other point of view, the competition point of view, kind of meaningless. They have literally no bench at all right now. Gary Clark, an undrafted rookie in June, was their best sub last night. I mean... Danuel House is NOT an NBA player; he's been cut from at least 3 teams. Michael Carter-Williams is a washout. Chriss is a bust, & Hartenstein is a rookie & totally useless right now.

Who cares? A win's a win, & we need wins. Plus, wins are fun. I'm with Cobra in that when the game starts I want us to win not lose.

But, I'm definitely not with Cobra in being satisfied with a "respectable" team. Not given the opportunities we've had to build something much better. & I don't know why I (or he) would criticize the coach & not the GM. Ernie specifically picked Scott Brooks. Ernie hired him. If you think he's no good, then who is responsible?

In short, why does Ernie get a pass?

Erine does NOT get a pass. In fact Erine is complicit - when it comes to the wizards. If the parts are good but dont fit...Erine. If the coach cant coach and develop players...Erine. If the players are over paid...Erine. If the team isn’t respectable on and off the court...guess who? Erine. But once you have your team...it becomes the coaches job to do the best he can with the players he has...and thats not what we getting from Brooks.

On being ok with a respectable team- respectable would be the top 3-8 teams in NBA. You wouldnt take that? No off the court drama? No scandal? No guns in the locker room? No clowns on the court? You know...respectable?

I think the point is Ernie does get a pass from Ted. No one knows why, it’s not like Ted can be thrilled to pay that much for this product. Ted knows results are not good, that’s why Ernie contract extensions done in secret. Perhaps Ernie is a loyal soldier and “yes” man that Ted is comfortable with and values that above excellence. Maybe Abe/Ted ordered certain moves (Foye/Miller), not to trade Beal for Harden, hire Brooks so we have a shot at KD, who knows what else, and Ernie gets undue blame. I would leave a job where my boss ordered me to do stupid stuff, but Ernie has no such qualms as he’s not getting hired by another team. Ultimately it’s the fans who have to hold Ted accountable. We are down to 20th in average game attendance. Ted probably makes money even if attendance is zero, but will make less. Only when attendance and tv ratings fall to some level will then Ernie not get a pass.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Very nice win, gentlemen!

The Wizards showed some real poise down the stretch, weathering all of those Harden daggers.

Seconded.

Character and team win.

I hope to heck they get a healthy, MOTIVATED (even miffed) Dwight Howard soon.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

atleast we have last shot

Nope .

Wall iso. Surprisingly it didn't work out...this time, either.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

No one else was even MOVING...this crap is so predictable...they think JW is Harden? Just run a play and get a open shooter a shot...

Scott Brooks really has faith (???) to the point of Ray Charles blindness in iso Wall.

I'm not seeing it.

Mind boggling the number of failures without any adjustment.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

[TGW]

Austin Rivers is the guard version of Michael Ruffin. He's better off as a cheerleader/seatwarmer than an actual player.

[nate33]

Wiz99, do you want to get a new game thread up?

[payitforward]

... I'm definitely not with Cobra in being satisfied with a "respectable" team. Not given the opportunities we've had to build something much better. ...

...respectable would be the top 3-8 teams in NBA. You wouldnt take that? No off the court drama? No scandal? No guns in the locker room? No clowns on the court? You know...respectable?

Hey for top 3, I could even live with clowns on the court!

I misinterpreted you. To me, "respectable" means middle of the road -- a little bit above average & a little better than that in "good" years. I.e. more or less what we've had since 2013-14 -- we've averaged 44+ wins a year since then.