2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

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Who do you think are the best two rookies?

Ayton
147
18%
Bagley
12
1%
Bamba
6
1%
Carter
15
2%
Doncic
424
51%
Gilgeous-Alexander
18
2%
Jackson
159
19%
Knox
18
2%
Sexton
6
1%
Young
20
2%
 
Total votes: 825

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#41 » by Bob8 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:49 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Jackson Jr. and Doncic have much better teams around them than Ayton. Irrelevant point.


He put Ayton classes above all other rookies. I would expect that good player to have some impact on Suns. Dallas and Memphis have much better start than last year, Suns worse.

Ayton has a -5.8 on court rating. When he's off the court Phoenix has a -18.5 rating. If that's not impact I don't know what is. Meanwhile JJJ has by far the lowest +/- in the Memphis starting lineup and they do better with JaMychael Green out with the other 4 and the Mavs starting 5 is the 2nd worst in the league next to Washington.

Ayton has nothing to do with the fact that he plays with only 2 other good players (Booker and Bridges). Same way Doncic has nothing to do with Dallas having the best bench in the league and JJJ has nothing to do with Gasol/Conley destroying other teams (those two are the 9th best 2 man lineup in the league).


RPM, http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/5

JJJ 105th
Luka 123th
Ayton 165th
Knowing that RPM favorites bigs.

Last year Memphis, 7-12, Dallas 4-15, Suns 7-12
This year Memphis 12-7, Dallas 9-9, Suns 4-15

i won’t say that Memphis and Dallas are better only because of JJJ and Luka, but it’s for sure strange that like you say far the best rookie havs 0 impact on the Suns.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#42 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:53 pm

eminence wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Where'd you find RAPM at?


Shadow updates his on APBR every week or two.

Time to visit the commentary thread then!
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#43 » by eminence » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:53 pm

Has anybody ever actually put together anything substantial on RPM favoring bigs? By my eye it slants DRPM towards them, but ORPM away (and some hits and misses there, but overall a decent idea).
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#44 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:56 pm

Bob8 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
He put Ayton classes above all other rookies. I would expect that good player to have some impact on Suns. Dallas and Memphis have much better start than last year, Suns worse.

Ayton has a -5.8 on court rating. When he's off the court Phoenix has a -18.5 rating. If that's not impact I don't know what is. Meanwhile JJJ has by far the lowest +/- in the Memphis starting lineup and they do better with JaMychael Green out with the other 4 and the Mavs starting 5 is the 2nd worst in the league next to Washington.

Ayton has nothing to do with the fact that he plays with only 2 other good players (Booker and Bridges). Same way Doncic has nothing to do with Dallas having the best bench in the league and JJJ has nothing to do with Gasol/Conley destroying other teams (those two are the 9th best 2 man lineup in the league).


RPM, http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/5

JJJ 105th
Luka 123th
Ayton 165th
Knowing that RPM favorites bigs.

Last year Memphis, 7-12, Dallas 4-15, Suns 7-12
This year Memphis 12-7, Dallas 9-9, Suns 4-15

i won’t say that Memphis and Dallas are better only because of JJJ and Luka, but it’s for sure strange that like you say far the best rookie havs 0 impact on the Suns.

He doesn't have 0 impact on the Suns. He's stuck playing with 2 good players and a bunch of scrubs though. RPM isn't god and the BPM like prior is really bumping up the defensive impact of JJJ with his blocks and steals while covering up his lack of offensive impact because he's efficient.

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#45 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:58 pm

eminence wrote:Has anybody ever actually put together anything substantial on RPM favoring bigs? By my eye it slants DRPM towards them, but ORPM away (and some hits and misses there, but overall a decent idea).

Yeah that's exactly what it does. And not specifically bigs but tall bigs. I think it uses their heights to substitute for defensive impact (along with other things) in the prior.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#46 » by Bob8 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:01 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Ayton has a -5.8 on court rating. When he's off the court Phoenix has a -18.5 rating. If that's not impact I don't know what is. Meanwhile JJJ has by far the lowest +/- in the Memphis starting lineup and they do better with JaMychael Green out with the other 4 and the Mavs starting 5 is the 2nd worst in the league next to Washington.

Ayton has nothing to do with the fact that he plays with only 2 other good players (Booker and Bridges). Same way Doncic has nothing to do with Dallas having the best bench in the league and JJJ has nothing to do with Gasol/Conley destroying other teams (those two are the 9th best 2 man lineup in the league).


RPM, http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/5

JJJ 105th
Luka 123th
Ayton 165th
Knowing that RPM favorites bigs.

Last year Memphis, 7-12, Dallas 4-15, Suns 7-12
This year Memphis 12-7, Dallas 9-9, Suns 4-15

i won’t say that Memphis and Dallas are better only because of JJJ and Luka, but it’s for sure strange that like you say far the best rookie havs 0 impact on the Suns.

He doesn't have 0 impact on the Suns. He's stuck playing with 2 good players and a bunch of scrubs though. RPM isn't god and the BPM like prior is really bumping up the defensive impact of JJJ with his blocks and steals while covering up his lack of offensive impact because he's efficient.

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.


:lol:

I heard enough. Have a good day.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#47 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:02 pm

Sheesh I'm looking at RAPM now and JJJ is 435th out of 443 players in ORAPM. He's even worse than I thought in terms of his offensive impact.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#48 » by juanc » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:47 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Ayton has a -5.8 on court rating. When he's off the court Phoenix has a -18.5 rating. If that's not impact I don't know what is. Meanwhile JJJ has by far the lowest +/- in the Memphis starting lineup and they do better with JaMychael Green out with the other 4 and the Mavs starting 5 is the 2nd worst in the league next to Washington.

Ayton has nothing to do with the fact that he plays with only 2 other good players (Booker and Bridges). Same way Doncic has nothing to do with Dallas having the best bench in the league and JJJ has nothing to do with Gasol/Conley destroying other teams (those two are the 9th best 2 man lineup in the league).


RPM, http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/5

JJJ 105th
Luka 123th
Ayton 165th
Knowing that RPM favorites bigs.

Last year Memphis, 7-12, Dallas 4-15, Suns 7-12
This year Memphis 12-7, Dallas 9-9, Suns 4-15

i won’t say that Memphis and Dallas are better only because of JJJ and Luka, but it’s for sure strange that like you say far the best rookie havs 0 impact on the Suns.

He doesn't have 0 impact on the Suns. He's stuck playing with 2 good players and a bunch of scrubs though. RPM isn't god and the BPM like prior is really bumping up the defensive impact of JJJ with his blocks and steals while covering up his lack of offensive impact because he's efficient.

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.


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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#49 » by J_T » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:49 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:1. Deandre Ayton
2. Deandre Ayton
3. Deandre Ayton
4. Deandre Ayton
5. Deandre Ayton

He's been on another level from all other rookies. They're all good for rookies. He's just good.


apparently he’s too good to help Suns winning some games. ;)


Jackson Jr. and Doncic have much better teams around them than Ayton. Irrelevant point.

Pretty sure Mavs are sub 30 team without Doncic.

I understand Doncic might not be your fav player and up to this week you have had him outside of top 3 rookies (if not even 5 in one of your lists), but that still doesn't mean that posts like E-Balla's shouldn't be mocked. His posts are borderline bannable in my opinion. And yet a lot of you guys never respond to the insanity like:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.


The funny part is that we all know how he got to have such an opinion and it sure isn't from watching the games. Oh, no, it comes from +/- stat and him not understanding that bench players play against weaker opposition. A typical box score warrior, never watches games, doesn't understand any of the stats' meaning.

Shocking that only Bob8 is responding to this and calling him out. And then he is being labeled as "Luka fanboy"...

Now ok... now that I think of it... could be that E-Balla is simply on everyone's ignore list. That would make sense. Yeah, that's probably the only reasonable explanation.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#50 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:59 pm

J_T wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
apparently he’s too good to help Suns winning some games. ;)


Jackson Jr. and Doncic have much better teams around them than Ayton. Irrelevant point.

Pretty sure Mavs are sub 30 team without Doncic.

I understand Doncic might not be your fav player and up to this week you have had him outside of top 3 rookies (if not even 5 in one of your lists), but that still doesn't mean that posts like E-Balla's shouldn't be mocked. His posts are borderline bannable in my opinion. And yet a lot of you guys never respond to the insanity like:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.


The funny part is that we all know how he got to have such an opinion and it sure isn't from watching the games. Oh, no, it comes from +/- stat and him not understanding that bench players play against weaker opposition. A typical box score warrior, never watches games, doesn't understand any of the stats' meaning.

Shocking that only Bob8 is responding to this and calling him out. And then he is being labeled as "Luka fanboy"...

Now ok... now that I think of it... could be that E-Balla is simply on everyone's ignore list. That would make sense. Yeah, that's probably the only reasonable explanation.

Totally because it's not easy to watch Mavs games and see whenever Barea hits the floor the offense just looks different. Everyone knows Doncic is a top 10 player in the league. :roll:

You're 100% right it's hard to watch a game and notice the Mavs starting 5 gets killed. But let me guess you watch him play and to you the starting 5 is great right?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#51 » by BoardCrusher » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:39 pm

E-Balla wrote:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.


This statement alone tells me you havent watched many Dallas games this year.

And FYI bball isnt played only 3 ft from the rim like Ayton plays it.

Its hard to take you seriously :lol:
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#52 » by Archx » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:57 pm

E-Balla wrote:
J_T wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Jackson Jr. and Doncic have much better teams around them than Ayton. Irrelevant point.

Pretty sure Mavs are sub 30 team without Doncic.

I understand Doncic might not be your fav player and up to this week you have had him outside of top 3 rookies (if not even 5 in one of your lists), but that still doesn't mean that posts like E-Balla's shouldn't be mocked. His posts are borderline bannable in my opinion. And yet a lot of you guys never respond to the insanity like:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.


The funny part is that we all know how he got to have such an opinion and it sure isn't from watching the games. Oh, no, it comes from +/- stat and him not understanding that bench players play against weaker opposition. A typical box score warrior, never watches games, doesn't understand any of the stats' meaning.

Shocking that only Bob8 is responding to this and calling him out. And then he is being labeled as "Luka fanboy"...

Now ok... now that I think of it... could be that E-Balla is simply on everyone's ignore list. That would make sense. Yeah, that's probably the only reasonable explanation.

Totally because it's not easy to watch Mavs games and see whenever Barea hits the floor the offense just looks different. Everyone knows Doncic is a top 10 player in the league. :roll:

You're 100% right it's hard to watch a game and notice the Mavs starting 5 gets killed. But let me guess you watch him play and to you the starting 5 is great right?



Oh my god i never thought i will have to come to defend Bob8 on these forums. But i guess that day had to come by....

Anyway, Luka i believe is 1st among all rookies in 4Q points. He also ranks in TOP5 in clutch FG% in the entire league, again if my memory servers me right. Dallas had so many close games already when Doncic was in fact the one who brought them back in 4Q but they were unlucky a couple of times. The fact that you are diminishing is role by calling out other people to watch Mavs games, i simply have the feeling you watch zero games yourself.

Mavs offense looks a lot smoother when he is on the floor and often he is their savior when the shoot clock is going down and they have nowhere to go. JJ had many off and on moments, lately he is hitting his shots, but when JJ runs the offense, he passes only when he has to, otherwise he looks for his own shots. So luckily, he is in a good form at the moment, but when those shots stop falling, Mavs bench will be in trouble. I am not convinced that he can sustain 20ppg as a bench player through entire year.

So aside that Luka is one of the best clutch players in the NBA so far and that he had more impact on Mavs winning this season than any other rookie had on their team, what makes you think he is as bad as you say he is?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#53 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:03 pm

BoardCrusher wrote:
E-Balla wrote:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.


This statement alone tells me you havent watched many Dallas games this year.

And FYI bball isnt played only 3 ft from the rim like Ayton plays it.

Its hard to take you seriously :lol:

Obviously you don't watch Ayton play because he shoots. And he shoots well. He's not primarily a shooter though because he's smart enough to realize and the biggest, most athletic, strongest player on the floor he's better off playing in the paint.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#54 » by Bob8 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:12 pm

cccmonteiro wrote:


The baffling Kings took Bagley over Luka. :D

He was white and thicc. :D

Brilliant song. :nod:
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#55 » by BoardCrusher » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm

E-Balla wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:
E-Balla wrote:

As far as Luka goes watch a Dallas game. When he's on the floor they aren't good. That bench is insane.

Still great rookies but Ayton is one of the better offensive players in the league already.


This statement alone tells me you havent watched many Dallas games this year.

And FYI bball isnt played only 3 ft from the rim like Ayton plays it.

Its hard to take you seriously :lol:

Obviously you don't watch Ayton play because he shoots. And he shoots well. He's not primarily a shooter though because he's smart enough to realize and the biggest, most athletic, strongest player on the floor he's better off playing in the paint.


Youre right, I dont watch or pretend that I watch his games, like you do with the Mavs, but I do know he takes almost 60% shots within 5ft, which is the point I made in my previous post.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#56 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:26 pm

Archx wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
J_T wrote:Pretty sure Mavs are sub 30 team without Doncic.

I understand Doncic might not be your fav player and up to this week you have had him outside of top 3 rookies (if not even 5 in one of your lists), but that still doesn't mean that posts like E-Balla's shouldn't be mocked. His posts are borderline bannable in my opinion. And yet a lot of you guys never respond to the insanity like:



The funny part is that we all know how he got to have such an opinion and it sure isn't from watching the games. Oh, no, it comes from +/- stat and him not understanding that bench players play against weaker opposition. A typical box score warrior, never watches games, doesn't understand any of the stats' meaning.

Shocking that only Bob8 is responding to this and calling him out. And then he is being labeled as "Luka fanboy"...

Now ok... now that I think of it... could be that E-Balla is simply on everyone's ignore list. That would make sense. Yeah, that's probably the only reasonable explanation.

Totally because it's not easy to watch Mavs games and see whenever Barea hits the floor the offense just looks different. Everyone knows Doncic is a top 10 player in the league. :roll:

You're 100% right it's hard to watch a game and notice the Mavs starting 5 gets killed. But let me guess you watch him play and to you the starting 5 is great right?



Oh my god i never thought i will have to come to defend Bob8 on these forums. But i guess that day had to come by....

Anyway, Luka i believe is 1st among all rookies in 4Q points. He also ranks in TOP5 in clutch FG% in the entire league, again if my memory servers me right. Dallas had so many close games already when Doncic was in fact the one who brought them back in 4Q but they were unlucky a couple of times. The fact that you are diminishing is role by calling out other people to watch Mavs games, i simply have the feeling you watch zero games yourself.

There's a whole other 43 minutes in the game though. Doncic can score extremely well and is a great rookie but he's not the reason they're winning so much. That bench is. They wouldn't be in it for Luka to close out the games if the bench didn't keep them in it.

Mavs offense looks a lot smoother when he is on the floor and often he is their savior when the shoot clock is going down and they have nowhere to go. JJ had many off and on moments, lately he is hitting his shots, but when JJ runs the offense, he passes only when he has to, otherwise he looks for his own shots. So luckily, he is in a good form at the moment, but when those shots stop falling, Mavs bench will be in trouble. I am not convinced that he can sustain 20ppg as a bench player through entire year.

Umm.... JJ has scored 20 (just barely) twice and under 10 8 times. Meanwhile he's had 10+ assists 3 times and under 5 assists 6 times. I think you might have him confused with DSJ who is a starter.

So aside that Luka is one of the best clutch players in the NBA so far and that he had more impact on Mavs winning this season than any other rookie had on their team, what makes you think he is as bad as you say he is?

No one said he's bad. I said he's a good rookie. Not a good player. That doesn't mean he's bad it means he's decent. This happens every year. People conflate rookies doing legitimately impressive things for a 19 year old with playing winning basketball. Last year it was Mitchell people were gushing about. As it is now Luka is a good scorer, bad defender, and he turns the ball over tons. No stat you can point to would paint him as an above average starter because he isn't. He's an average player, which at 19 is rare (I mean look at Young - he's impressive and literally one of the worst players in the league).

Ayton is beyond that level already. He's basically Amare already.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#57 » by E-Balla » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:27 pm

BoardCrusher wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:
This statement alone tells me you havent watched many Dallas games this year.

And FYI bball isnt played only 3 ft from the rim like Ayton plays it.

Its hard to take you seriously :lol:

Obviously you don't watch Ayton play because he shoots. And he shoots well. He's not primarily a shooter though because he's smart enough to realize and the biggest, most athletic, strongest player on the floor he's better off playing in the paint.


Youre right, I dont watch or pretend that I watch his games, like you do with the Mavs, but I do know he takes almost 60% shots within 5ft, which is the point I made in my previous post.

I mean he's 7-1 where the hell do you want him taking his shots? Y'all falling in love with these **** 7-1 shooting guards. Nah he's an actual big man on offense. Now if only he played that way on D...
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#58 » by Archx » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:54 pm

E-Balla wrote:No one said he's bad. I said he's a good rookie. Not a good player. That doesn't mean he's bad it means he's decent. This happens every year. People conflate rookies doing legitimately impressive things for a 19 year old with playing winning basketball. Last year it was Mitchell people were gushing about. As it is now Luka is a good scorer, bad defender, and he turns the ball over tons. No stat you can point to would paint him as an above average starter because he isn't. He's an average player, which at 19 is rare (I mean look at Young - he's impressive and literally one of the worst players in the league).

Ayton is beyond that level already. He's basically Amare already.


Look, i see you're not watching Mavs games, so there is basically zero logic debating with you. But i'll just answer this.

Us who actually do watch every game, we pretty much know what his weaknesses are and strengths. They rely heavily on him, there is a reason why he plays so many minutes and has one of the highest USG% among rookies.

You're saying he is a bad defender, which is again, ignorant to say the least. Average player? He is the best player on a 9-9 team with playoffs hopes at 19yo, well then... call him average.

His TO's mostly come from adjusting to the NBA rules. Which are travels and sometimes he even carries the ball. Or when he tries to lob pass it to DJ. I mean those are not really bad TO's, just simply adjusting to the NBA. He is also cutting those TO down a lot lately. But i guess you didn't notice that either. I mean Harden and other top guys look like they are going for record numbers in TO's but no one complains about that, right? And i see that they don't have much more wins than the Mavs either.

Young is far from being impressive. He is a great passes, no doubt, but other than that, he was terrible so far. TO machine who actually plays ZERO defense. Almost cost them a 100% win game against Hornets with his poor shot selection and a blew up layup. Sexton is much more impressive than Young so far.

And don't get me started about Ayton. I watch every PHX game because they are my 2nd favorite team for like 20 years now and there is a huge gap between him and Luka, but not in Ayton's favor. His stats look good yea, but actually watching him play will paint you another picture. For a center who is suppose to be a rim protector, he does piss poor job. His effort and energy kick in every 3rd game when someone wakes him up. When he gets the ball in his hands down low, he often runs away from the challenge and passes it out to some guy and completely ruins their shot clock management in the process. There is also a reason why Booker is getting more and more angry at him during the games.

Not everything is black and white and just box score. You actually need to watch games in order to give fair judgement. No rookie so far has been perfect, far from that, but your takes on those 3 are seriously flawed.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#59 » by juanc » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Archx wrote:
Look, i see you're not watching Mavs games, so there is basically zero logic debating with you. But i'll just answer this.

Us who actually do watch every game, we pretty much know what his weaknesses are and strengths. They rely heavily on him, there is a reason why he plays so many minutes and has one of the highest USG% among rookies.

You're saying he is a bad defender, which is again, ignorant to say the least. Average player? He is the best player on a 9-9 team with playoffs hopes at 19yo, well then... call him average.

His TO's mostly come from adjusting to the NBA rules. Which are travels and sometimes he even carries the ball. Or when he tries to lob pass it to DJ. I mean those are not really bad TO's, just simply adjusting to the NBA. He is also cutting those TO down a lot lately. But i guess you didn't notice that either. I mean Harden and other top guys look like they are going for record numbers in TO's but no one complains about that, right? And i see that they don't have much more wins than the Mavs either.

Young is far from being impressive. He is a great passes, no doubt, but other than that, he was terrible so far. TO machine who actually plays ZERO defense. Almost cost them a 100% win game against Hornets with his poor shot selection and a blew up layup. Sexton is much more impressive than Young so far.

And don't get me started about Ayton. I watch every PHX game because they are my 2nd favorite team for like 20 years now and there is a huge gap between him and Luka, but not in Ayton's favor. His stats look good yea, but actually watching him play will paint you another picture. For a center who is suppose to be a rim protector, he does piss poor job. His effort and energy kick in every 3rd game when someone wakes him up. When he gets the ball in his hands down low, he often runs away from the challenge and passes it out to some guy and completely ruins their shot clock management in the process. There is also a reason why Booker is getting more and more angry at him during the games.

Not everything is black and white and just box score. You actually need to watch games in order to give fair judgement. No rookie so far has been perfect, far from that, but your takes on those 3 are seriously flawed.

Be the smart one and please just finish debating. You won't accomplish anything
VCfor3
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#60 » by VCfor3 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:21 pm

I don't think I'd use Memphis's improved record as proof of anything JJJ. He is good and is a huge help some games, but that improvement is 98% Conley being back and healthy. JJJ also gets some love in the first quarter offensively and then nothing is run for him really the rest of the game as the grizzlies offense shifts more and more to Conley/Gasol PnR and features that almost exclusively late in the game. He has to create himself or try for a rebound. That isn't always the case, but that seems to be the usual game flow. That is on him to get more involved and JB/Conley/team to get him more opportunities.

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