Political Roundtable Part XXIII

[Pointgod]

Except when you take exception to the portrayal of the media, and when you play the obama card, you are in a way defending Trump's actions.

Like, if you found out that your coworker was fired for beating his wife, and your knee jerk reaction was to take exception to his firing because I called it "beating his wife" instead of "domestic violence" and that I have no moral high ground because 2 years ago I was cited for a domestic disturbance, doesn't it feel like you're defending your wifebeating coworker? Shouldn't your reaction be "oh damn, coworker should probably stop hitting his wife."

It just seems petty and stupid to object to the posting of the libs when ostensibly, you agree with the libs on the issue.

I disagree, because I fele the difference is I acklowedge and own the faults in the party and many of its members that i support, we rarely ever see that on the liberla side

you mentioned yourself you identified as a republican and you've disagreed with many of the things Trump & team have done. One of those things he deserves to eb called out for is how he is handling Saudi, yet almost none (if any) of the liberals here will own to Hillary's, heck even Barack's close knit relationship to the kingdom, it only works one way for them. If the Dems do anything similar to what trump did, it gets ignored. Im happy to call him out for all his wrong, way he labeled Mexicans, mocking a disabled person, even things that have no bearing in politics, cheating on his spouse, he's wrong for all that. Just tired of the narrative that Obama was a saint when he's far far from it

i think you're devolving into oversimplification and whataboutism in this post.

i think there are many libs on here who are critical of Obama when there is cause to be critical - and the media included. the biggest tarnish of the Obama administration are probably both Middle-East-related in ISIS and Yemen.

However, you're citing Barack's "close knit relationship to the kingdom" out of... nothing really. Obama was no friend to KSA and if you want to play gotcha games, go look up Barack's condemnation of how the Saudis arrested, imprisoned, and flogged political dissident Raif Badawi. For a guy that Trumpers gave grief for not saying "radical islamic terror," Obama had no problem calling that spade a spade when Trump has a problem condemning the ordered assassination of a journalist. I guess it's not radical islam when gas prices are in play.

But really this is sidestepping the real issue I have with your posting - that it stands on a platform built on impotent rage and misemphasized/characterized hypocrisy.

If I may cite to a cliched and overused Eleanor Roosevelt quote - "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people."

I think the quality of the posting of this thread would improve massively (SD notwithstanding*) if references to killary, or babykillers are checked at the door and discussion is held true to the topic at hand.

*I say this not in a mean-spirited way, but in that I think SD has legitimate mental problems and cannot discuss politics in a meaningful way. This is not to take away from whatever real estate prowess or dental skills he has, but I think he lacks the human empathy to discuss issues that involve people other than himself.

One aspect in particular that's been irking me, you can see the sociopathy in his repeated allusions to altruism of providing for his community. He doesn't treat it as an act of love for his fellow man. He uses it as crutch for moral superiority in a cosmic game of keep karmic score, while at the same time questioning the charitable character of everyone else - as if (1) that disqualifies us from commenting on politics, (2) is evidence that we don't do charity work, or (3) if the relative amounts of charity work done (measured in dollars apparently) qualifies us to opine on politics.

At the risk of outing myself, I personally regularly volunteer at Miriam's Kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, Catholic Charities pro bono legal work, and have done other pro bono projects. I have also tutored at after-school programs, and my goal for 2019 is to get into either Big Brother/Big Sis or youth sports - workload permitting. I'm saying this not to score cred but to rebut SD's toxic message and to also remind people whose opinions differ from mine that it's still people on the other side of the aisle. In some cases, it's people on your own aisle. Or even that aisles don't matter.

Absolutely spot on! This is an A+ post from you pancakes.

[Wizardspride]

Wow.

I was told wikileaks was merely an organization dedicated to transparency!

I'm in shock!

[daoneandonly]

Except when you take exception to the portrayal of the media, and when you play the obama card, you are in a way defending Trump's actions.

Like, if you found out that your coworker was fired for beating his wife, and your knee jerk reaction was to take exception to his firing because I called it "beating his wife" instead of "domestic violence" and that I have no moral high ground because 2 years ago I was cited for a domestic disturbance, doesn't it feel like you're defending your wifebeating coworker? Shouldn't your reaction be "oh damn, coworker should probably stop hitting his wife."

It just seems petty and stupid to object to the posting of the libs when ostensibly, you agree with the libs on the issue.

I disagree, because I fele the difference is I acklowedge and own the faults in the party and many of its members that i support, we rarely ever see that on the liberla side

you mentioned yourself you identified as a republican and you've disagreed with many of the things Trump & team have done. One of those things he deserves to eb called out for is how he is handling Saudi, yet almost none (if any) of the liberals here will own to Hillary's, heck even Barack's close knit relationship to the kingdom, it only works one way for them. If the Dems do anything similar to what trump did, it gets ignored. Im happy to call him out for all his wrong, way he labeled Mexicans, mocking a disabled person, even things that have no bearing in politics, cheating on his spouse, he's wrong for all that. Just tired of the narrative that Obama was a saint when he's far far from it

i think you're devolving into oversimplification and whataboutism in this post.

i think there are many libs on here who are critical of Obama when there is cause to be critical - and the media included. the biggest tarnish of the Obama administration are probably both Middle-East-related in ISIS and Yemen.

However, you're citing Barack's "close knit relationship to the kingdom" out of... nothing really. Obama was no friend to KSA and if you want to play gotcha games, go look up Barack's condemnation of how the Saudis arrested, imprisoned, and flogged political dissident Raif Badawi. For a guy that Trumpers gave grief for not saying "radical islamic terror," Obama had no problem calling that spade a spade when Trump has a problem condemning the ordered assassination of a journalist. I guess it's not radical islam when gas prices are in play.

But really this is sidestepping the real issue I have with your posting - that it stands on a platform built on impotent rage and misemphasized/characterized hypocrisy.

If I may cite to a cliched and overused Eleanor Roosevelt quote - "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people."

I think the quality of the posting of this thread would improve massively (SD notwithstanding*) if references to killary, or babykillers are checked at the door and discussion is held true to the topic at hand.

*I say this not in a mean-spirited way, but in that I think SD has legitimate mental problems and cannot discuss politics in a meaningful way. This is not to take away from whatever real estate prowess or dental skills he has, but I think he lacks the human empathy to discuss issues that involve people other than himself.

One aspect in particular that's been irking me, you can see the sociopathy in his repeated allusions to altruism of providing for his community. He doesn't treat it as an act of love for his fellow man. He uses it as crutch for moral superiority in a cosmic game of keep karmic score, while at the same time questioning the charitable character of everyone else - as if (1) that disqualifies us from commenting on politics, (2) is evidence that we don't do charity work, or (3) if the relative amounts of charity work done (measured in dollars apparently) qualifies us to opine on politics.

At the risk of outing myself, I personally regularly volunteer at Miriam's Kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, Catholic Charities pro bono legal work, and have done other pro bono projects. I have also tutored at after-school programs, and my goal for 2019 is to get into either Big Brother/Big Sis or youth sports - workload permitting. I'm saying this not to score cred but to rebut SD's toxic message and to also remind people whose opinions differ from mine that it's still people on the other side of the aisle. In some cases, it's people on your own aisle. Or even that aisles don't matter.

I can respect your thoughts here and appreciate your transparency. Both sides here are guilty of the name calling, three specifically on the left side in querdi, j wiz, and gtn. But I can admit my part in the labels I've thrown. Im passionate about that subject, and when someone jokes thats its creepy insinuating my stance is something dirty or outright criminal, thats crossing a line. As is using my health situation to crack jokes or use as some political justification.

I dont think you meant any harm in how you described SD, but i think saying he has a mental issue is a bit much. You disagree, thats fine.

Not everyone who voted for Trump is deplorable, the majority of ppl who voted for him are not, just as the majority of ppl who voted for Obama are not. Those are the generalizations that need to stop. We're talking small sample sizes of ppl who are ignorant, racist, and full of hate

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

imagine voting for this clown lmfao

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

imagine voting for this clown lmfao

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

imagine voting for this clown lmfao

Close your eyes and have someone read out those words to you and I swear it sounds like something STD would say.

[pancakes3]

Read on Twitter

imagine voting for this clown lmfao

Close your eyes and have someone read out those words to you and I swear it sounds like something STD would say.

it's a poorly-used meme, 3 "muphuka's" and 21 exclamation points short of a standard STD.

[pancakes3]

Not everyone who voted for Trump is deplorable, the majority of ppl who voted for him are not, just as the majority of ppl who voted for Obama are not. Those are the generalizations that need to stop. We're talking small sample sizes of ppl who are ignorant, racist, and full of hate

this is a decent sentiment but it's also a convenient one. I would suggest that while you may not have been deplorable when you voted for Trump, if you're still on the Trump train in 2018, you might have become deplorable.

I do believe that many Trump voters are self-professed nose-holders and only leaned towards Trump in 2016. However, we are 2 years after the election and there are simply too many instances where Trump has done objectively bad things for those same voters to still feel political allegiance to the Republican party.

Trump does not represent fiscal responsibility. he does not represent conservative social values. the tax cuts were a purely political move that had no grounding in economics, and TIME has proven it to be a boondoggle that has increased the deficit by $2 trillion dollars - 10% of the bill. a direct result of the tax cuts is that by 2020, the U.S. will spend more on interest payments than the military. It's awful and a betrayal to the party.

And this is just one example of countless where Trump makes a difficult-to-swallow proposition that Republicans are forced to swallow so as to keep their club membership, and then down the road when the proposition has matured into a fully realized [poor] decision, there is either amnesia re: the issue, or some other sort of defense mechanism. What's worse is that the decisions aren't bad because they're Republican decisions. They're bad decisions because they're Trump decisions. As a party, Republicans are letting him drive the train, and the blue wave is a referendum on Trump. I don't think that message has set in as much as it should, given the results. I think people are still toeing the party line out of habit, or out of belief that the congressmen have cleaner hands than DJT. Maybe the referendum will come in 2020. Who knows, but based on the lack of backlash from conservatives in this thread on what are clearly bad moves by DJT, i'm not holding my breath.

Just a few more instances:
- Kavannaugh was a poor choice for justice and when it came out, his name should have been withdrawn and another judge nominated, could have still kept the bench red.
- Opportunity for tax cuts, come out with a sensible plan that does not favor the rich so as to both increase revenue and lower tax burden for the majority entirety of his base, and make it sustainable.
- Reframe climate change narrative to energy investment. There are 375,000 solar workers in America. There are 50,000 coal workers. There is nothing intrinsically Republican about coal. Trump has no coherent plan on energy job creation whatsoever.
- Infrastructure?

So what's my point? The point is that maybe in a pre-Trump world, the Left and Right can sit down and say "we respect your opinions" to each other but it really is difficult under the current administration. Deplorables didn't vote for Trump, but in continuing to support Trump, Trump is making his constituents deplorable. with tweet after tweet, he has people questioning birthright citizenship. He has people believing that asylum seekers are military combatants. There is nary a news story about Russia waging war on Ukraine because Trump is having a twitter meltdown over GM.

And as an aside about the GM situation? GM is shutting down its plants bc they manufacture the Chevy Cruze, which is no longer economically feasible because of low oil prices that Trump is fighting tooth and nail for (opening domestic drilling, selling our nation's collective soul to KSA) has shifted consumer preference from fuel efficient sedans back to crossovers and small SUVs. He literally wants GM to keep the plants open to make cars that nobody wants. And Trump's shot at GM's Chinese plants? China wants those cars, and those cars made in China are staying in China. Unless Trump wants GM to shut down its Chinese factories so the American ones can keep going, and ship cars back to China - which when you say it aloud is just, so dumb.

[Pointgod]

Not everyone who voted for Trump is deplorable, the majority of ppl who voted for him are not, just as the majority of ppl who voted for Obama are not. Those are the generalizations that need to stop. We're talking small sample sizes of ppl who are ignorant, racist, and full of hate

this is a decent sentiment but it's also a convenient one. I would suggest that while you may not have been deplorable when you voted for Trump, if you're still on the Trump train in 2018, you might have become deplorable.

I do believe that many Trump voters are self-professed nose-holders and only leaned towards Trump in 2016. However, we are 2 years after the election and there are simply too many instances where Trump has done objectively bad things for those same voters to still feel political allegiance to the Republican party.

Trump does not represent fiscal responsibility. he does not represent conservative social values. the tax cuts were a purely political move that had no grounding in economics, and TIME has proven it to be a boondoggle that has increased the deficit by $2 trillion dollars - 10% of the bill. a direct result of the tax cuts is that by 2020, the U.S. will spend more on interest payments than the military. It's awful and a betrayal to the party.

And this is just one example of countless where Trump makes a difficult-to-swallow proposition that Republicans are forced to swallow so as to keep their club membership, and then down the road when the proposition has matured into a fully realized [poor] decision, there is either amnesia re: the issue, or some other sort of defense mechanism. What's worse is that the decisions aren't bad because they're Republican decisions. They're bad decisions because they're Trump decisions. As a party, Republicans are letting him drive the train, and the blue wave is a referendum on Trump. I don't think that message has set in as much as it should, given the results. I think people are still toeing the party line out of habit, or out of belief that the congressmen have cleaner hands than DJT. Maybe the referendum will come in 2020. Who knows, but based on the lack of backlash from conservatives in this thread on what are clearly bad moves by DJT, i'm not holding my breath.

Just a few more instances:
- Kavannaugh was a poor choice for justice and when it came out, his name should have been withdrawn and another judge nominated, could have still kept the bench red.
- Opportunity for tax cuts, come out with a sensible plan that does not favor the rich so as to both increase revenue and lower tax burden for the majority entirety of his base, and make it sustainable.
- Reframe climate change narrative to energy investment. There are 375,000 solar workers in America. There are 50,000 coal workers. There is nothing intrinsically Republican about coal. Trump has no coherent plan on energy job creation whatsoever.
- Infrastructure?

So what's my point? The point is that maybe in a pre-Trump world, the Left and Right can sit down and say "we respect your opinions" to each other but it really is difficult under the current administration. Deplorables didn't vote for Trump, but in continuing to support Trump, Trump is making his constituents deplorable. with tweet after tweet, he has people questioning birthright citizenship. He has people believing that asylum seekers are military combatants. There is nary a news story about Russia waging war on Ukraine because Trump is having a twitter meltdown over GM.

And as an aside about the GM situation? GM is shutting down its plants bc they manufacture the Chevy Cruze, which is no longer economically feasible because of low oil prices that Trump is fighting tooth and nail for (opening domestic drilling, selling our nation's collective soul to KSA) has shifted consumer preference from fuel efficient sedans back to crossovers and small SUVs. He literally wants GM to keep the plants open to make cars that nobody wants. And Trump's shot at GM's Chinese plants? China wants those cars, and those cars made in China are staying in China. Unless Trump wants GM to shut down its Chinese factories so the American ones can keep going, and ship cars back to China - which when you say it aloud is just, so dumb.

Another spot on post. Here’s my assessment. I have people that voted for Trump in my family, I have coworkers that voted for Trump. I’ll give you that maybe everyone didn’t know how horrible of a President he’d be (although you had to ignore a **** ton of racism to vote for him), if you still support Trump now and don’t think **** it Hillary would have been a better choice then you are a deplorable. No question about it.

Trump represents all the worst aspects of Obama and Clinton. And you can throw in x100 on corruption, immorality and lack of human decency. That’s why any talk of supporting Trump rings empty.

[TGW]

The Democrats suck, reason #244,340

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

trump is forced to twitter and forced to spin his own version of his policies because the media wont stop picking him apart.

Obama locked kids in cages.
Obama used tear gas at the border regularly.
Clinton let 77 american kids burn in waco and the media barely mentioned it then and still doesn't now.

Read on Twitter

meanwhile 1000 foreigners storm our border (8000 more now in Tijuana), waving flags from other countries, and throwing rocks at americans charged with protecting all of us on our border, and our trained american border agents respond with non deadly force (because they are allowed and licensed to protect themselves)...and who knows how the canister of tear gas ended up near them...maybe a migrant threw it near them?...a photo catches it and somehow Donald Trump is the most evil guy to ever walk the planet.

So the liberal arguments are just tired. old. hypocritical. hysterical. full of fake outrage. And all designed to make trump look bad no metter...death of a thousand cuts...so as to weaken his bas and independent voters opinion of trump...all so you can win in 2020. That's it! That the whole reason GTN, Pointgod, jwiz, Pancakes, and other post here. To make trump look bad. its nothing but bad faith subterfuge. I know it. You know it. They all know it.

And all of the lib posters are frustrated because you haven't made a single dent in trumps base. In fact his base is getting more and more aligned with him. Independents that were leaning left swung back full left. and those leaning right swung full right.


If the liberal posters and liberal media held your own liberal politicians to the exact same standards, you will find posters like me shut up and argue back in better faith. Ive tried to have conversation with DCkings in the past only to get drowned out with mudslinging by GTN and Pointgod.

So it is what it is. I am 100% certain that none of you libs will ever argue in good faith. I mean not even close. So it is what it is.

[stilldropin20]

oh those horrible americans!!

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

aaaaaaaaand the truth of all this border/caravan bull crap!

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

here's a good summary of what liberal care and dont care about.

Read on Twitter

and the best response.

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

looks like the media spin is working...on the dip shxt millenials, at least.

"obama better than Goerge frickin washington" you cant make this stuff up.

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

oh yeah...i guess now is as good of a time to remind everyone...that trump was right. again. Instincts of a fricking Cheetah!!

Read on Twitter