Political Roundtable Part XXIII

[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

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[pancakes3]

aaaaaaaaand the truth of all this border/caravan bull crap!

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wrong.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/18/opinions/human-trafficking-progress-obama/index.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/396781-trumps-harsh-immigration-policies-are-a-gift-for-human-traffickers

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double wrong. that tweet is citing a CANADIAN figure, and it's doing so incorrectly.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/monthly-refugee-benefits/



you're pathetic.

[Wizardspride]

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?s=19

[daoneandonly]

Not everyone who voted for Trump is deplorable, the majority of ppl who voted for him are not, just as the majority of ppl who voted for Obama are not. Those are the generalizations that need to stop. We're talking small sample sizes of ppl who are ignorant, racist, and full of hate

this is a decent sentiment but it's also a convenient one. I would suggest that while you may not have been deplorable when you voted for Trump, if you're still on the Trump train in 2018, you might have become deplorable.

I do believe that many Trump voters are self-professed nose-holders and only leaned towards Trump in 2016. However, we are 2 years after the election and there are simply too many instances where Trump has done objectively bad things for those same voters to still feel political allegiance to the Republican party.

Trump does not represent fiscal responsibility. he does not represent conservative social values. the tax cuts were a purely political move that had no grounding in economics, and TIME has proven it to be a boondoggle that has increased the deficit by $2 trillion dollars - 10% of the bill. a direct result of the tax cuts is that by 2020, the U.S. will spend more on interest payments than the military. It's awful and a betrayal to the party.

And this is just one example of countless where Trump makes a difficult-to-swallow proposition that Republicans are forced to swallow so as to keep their club membership, and then down the road when the proposition has matured into a fully realized [poor] decision, there is either amnesia re: the issue, or some other sort of defense mechanism. What's worse is that the decisions aren't bad because they're Republican decisions. They're bad decisions because they're Trump decisions. As a party, Republicans are letting him drive the train, and the blue wave is a referendum on Trump. I don't think that message has set in as much as it should, given the results. I think people are still toeing the party line out of habit, or out of belief that the congressmen have cleaner hands than DJT. Maybe the referendum will come in 2020. Who knows, but based on the lack of backlash from conservatives in this thread on what are clearly bad moves by DJT, i'm not holding my breath.

Just a few more instances:
- Kavannaugh was a poor choice for justice and when it came out, his name should have been withdrawn and another judge nominated, could have still kept the bench red.
- Opportunity for tax cuts, come out with a sensible plan that does not favor the rich so as to both increase revenue and lower tax burden for the majority entirety of his base, and make it sustainable.
- Reframe climate change narrative to energy investment. There are 375,000 solar workers in America. There are 50,000 coal workers. There is nothing intrinsically Republican about coal. Trump has no coherent plan on energy job creation whatsoever.
- Infrastructure?

So what's my point? The point is that maybe in a pre-Trump world, the Left and Right can sit down and say "we respect your opinions" to each other but it really is difficult under the current administration. Deplorables didn't vote for Trump, but in continuing to support Trump, Trump is making his constituents deplorable. with tweet after tweet, he has people questioning birthright citizenship. He has people believing that asylum seekers are military combatants. There is nary a news story about Russia waging war on Ukraine because Trump is having a twitter meltdown over GM.

And as an aside about the GM situation? GM is shutting down its plants bc they manufacture the Chevy Cruze, which is no longer economically feasible because of low oil prices that Trump is fighting tooth and nail for (opening domestic drilling, selling our nation's collective soul to KSA) has shifted consumer preference from fuel efficient sedans back to crossovers and small SUVs. He literally wants GM to keep the plants open to make cars that nobody wants. And Trump's shot at GM's Chinese plants? China wants those cars, and those cars made in China are staying in China. Unless Trump wants GM to shut down its Chinese factories so the American ones can keep going, and ship cars back to China - which when you say it aloud is just, so dumb.

I hear pan, I do. Like I said, I did not enjoy voting for Trump, heck I was all set to vote for Evan mcMullan but the guy wasnt even on the MD ballot. But one thing I will never regret now then or ever, is i did not vote for hillary. I to this day believe that Hillary clinton is the worst person that has ever run for President in my lifetime, with Trump being a close #2. Therein lies the problem, our great country, with hundreds of millions of ppl, somehow managed to nominate these 2 as our general election options. it was equal parts saddening and maddening.

I still dont believe Trump is conservative on social issues, agree there, difference is right now he's playing that part, and as a result, SCOTUS judges he nominates will be conservative.

The only real part in your post i disagree with is kavanaugh. If he was removed, this just sets a bad precedence that hey we can just drum up any allegation to get a guy we dont want removed from consideration. When you have a media spotlight whore like Avenneti suddenly appearing with a "3rd victim" i think credibility needs to be called into question. And yes while I did just speak of the dangers of generalizations, said 3rd victim went to Gaithersburg High School, I school i too attended decades after her, and I can tell you with certainty and no hesitation, that is one of the lowest, classless institutions in the DMV. So that in combination with her lawyer, makes me believe she is full of garbage.

[Jamaaliver]

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Why is 2018 the only time the media has freaked out about it?



Just a guess: It has something to do with the fact children were being separated from their parents earlier this year and held in cages.

Now there are images of children breathing in tear gas shot by US Border Patrol agents. Those things, in conjunction, do not paint a picture of strong decision-making when it comes to immigration and border enforcement.


We've known for weeks (months?) that the 'migrant caravan' was coming. Why has our response been so disjointed, ineffective and poorly planned?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Are we comparing our Border Control Agents to wild animals? That's...not okay.

It's also not a compelling argument.

[Pointgod]

aaaaaaaaand the truth of all this border/caravan bull crap!

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wrong.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/18/opinions/human-trafficking-progress-obama/index.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/396781-trumps-harsh-immigration-policies-are-a-gift-for-human-traffickers

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double wrong. that tweet is citing a CANADIAN figure, and it's doing so incorrectly.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/monthly-refugee-benefits/



you're pathetic.

Bolded for emphasis. Don’t know why all his lying nonsensical posts aren’t deleted.

[Pointgod]

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Why is 2018 the only time the media has freaked out about it?



Just a guess: It has something to do with the fact children were being separated from their parents earlier this year and held in cages.

Now there are images of children breathing in tear gas shot by US Border Patrol agents. Those things, in conjunction, do not paint a picture of strong decision-making when it comes to immigration and border enforcement.


We've known for weeks (months?) that the 'migrant caravan' was coming. Why has our response been so disjointed, ineffective and poorly planned?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Read on Twitter

Are we comparing our Border Control Agents to wild animals? That's...not okay.

It's also not a compelling argument.

Don’t bother trying to reason with a mad man.

[gtn130]

Yeah SD20 has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't care about reality

[dckingsfan]

you're pathetic.

He literally can't differentiate fake news from real news...

[dobrojim]

reading this thread is a whole lot easier or at least quicker with just
a single (or maybe 2) ignores. If a tree falls in the woods...

[dckingsfan]

Yeah SD20 has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't care about reality

I call it the cognitive dissonance to fake reality bolstered by propaganda world... it has to be tough to be a Trump supporter at this time. He came in with the MAGA - I got this covered, I am not a politician - I will make it right mantra and screwed it up. Ouch.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I call it the cognitive dissonance to fake reality bolstered by propaganda world... it has to be tough to be a Trump supporter at this time. He came in with the MAGA - I got this covered, I am not a politician - I will make it right mantra and screwed it up. Ouch.

Honestly? It's fear. Very few people will every truly admit it unless you really push the logic to a point that it really isn't worth doing, and figuring out which fear(s) can be tricky for any particular individual, but it's fear nonetheless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/

[dckingsfan]

I call it the cognitive dissonance to fake reality bolstered by propaganda world... it has to be tough to be a Trump supporter at this time. He came in with the MAGA - I got this covered, I am not a politician - I will make it right mantra and screwed it up. Ouch.

Honestly? It's fear. Very few people will every truly admit it unless you really push the logic to a point that it really isn't worth doing, and figuring out which fear(s) can be tricky for any particular individual, but it's fear nonetheless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/

Thanks Dirt! Good read - haven't read anything by John Bargh before... and don't forget the fear to say you were wrong - super powerful as well.

[daoneandonly]

This is what I dont get, many have posted tweets and links where credibility can easily be brought into question (especially with respect to tweets as they are opinionated stances more often than not). So why is it when SD does it its fluff, BS, lies, but some of the other thigns posted on here are the gospel. Simpy not right.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Thanks Dirt! Good read - haven't read anything by John Bargh before... and don't forget the fear to say you were wrong - super powerful as well.

Oh absolutely. Fear is a powerful and totally misunderstood motivator. It's a reason why there is this concept of adults learning languages slower than children, for example. Adults learn languages faster than children. The only reason they don't in certain cases is that they're afraid to make mistakes.

But it's important to understand that it isn't that one party is immune to fear and the other isn't. It's just how they respond to the fear or what their motivation is. Fear or a less egalitarian future and what that might mean is fear as well. And in my languages case, while children may not ever vocalize it as such, there is a powerful fear of not being understood/able to communicate which drives them to do what it takes to learn. I'm oversimplifying the issue there a bit, too, but it's clearly there.

[dckingsfan]

This is what I dont get, many have posted tweets and links where credibility can easily be brought into question (especially with respect to tweets as they are opinionated stances more often than not). So why is it when SD does it its fluff, BS, lies, but some of the other thigns posted on here are the gospel. Simpy not right.

It is absolutely right.

1) he rarely if ever fact checks what he posts
2) he doesn't respond when the facts show he is wrong or has flat out lied
3) his defenses are almost always laced with intentional logic errors
4) he has often be caught in his own lies and just responds with additional lies

If you behave badly and are called out - oh well. It isn't a one time thing...

[daoneandonly]

This is what I dont get, many have posted tweets and links where credibility can easily be brought into question (especially with respect to tweets as they are opinionated stances more often than not). So why is it when SD does it its fluff, BS, lies, but some of the other thigns posted on here are the gospel. Simpy not right.

It is absolutely right.

1) he rarely if ever fact checks what he posts
2) he doesn't respond when the facts show he is wrong or has flat out lied
3) his defenses are almost always laced with intentional logic errors
4) he has often be caught in his own lies and just responds with additional lies

If you behave badly and are called out - oh well. It isn't a one time thing...

I can understand that, I think part of the issue here is how unbalanced the ratio of liberals to conservatives are. There have been many of posts that are clearly biased and/or inaccurate from the liberal side, but we have what, only 2 maybe 3 ppl here to even attempt to give it a try.

His postings about the Obama administration using gas tactics at the border during their regime is not false or lies, that can actually be proven. But the issue being, Obama is like teflon and rarely ever gets criticized or called out. I get it the guy seems to be a good natured individual who has a bit of a cool factor, things we cant say about Trump, I can admit that, but he is far from mistakes, poor decisions.