Knicks featured on latest "The Ringer" Podcast

[DaGawd]

I'm done getting all hype up on "potential". I thought Shump was gonna turn out to be at least a nba all defender, but he wasn't. If the right deal comes along for Frank then I would consider shipping him out tbh.

hi isaiah...

I mean he has a point. Frank hasnt shown anything to me other than he can maybe be a solid role player down the line. Guys like that are tradable for the right deal

[mpharris36]

I'm done getting all hype up on "potential". I thought Shump was gonna turn out to be at least a nba all defender, but he wasn't. If the right deal comes along for Frank then I would consider shipping him out tbh.

hi isaiah...

I mean he has a point. Frank hasnt shown anything to me other than he can maybe be a solid role player down the line. Guys like that are tradable for the right deal

if he hasn't shown anything to you...why do you think you will get any value for him?

[DaGawd]

hi isaiah...

I mean he has a point. Frank hasnt shown anything to me other than he can maybe be a solid role player down the line. Guys like that are tradable for the right deal

if he hasn't shown anything to you...why do you think you will get any value for him?

Me personally I don't think he a would bring back a ton. But I know he's still young and a lot of GMs and fans fall for the ole "Potential" ideology so theres always that chance a GM bites and gives away more than he's probably worth

[awy]

poor opinions probably not core management.

[mpharris36]

I mean he has a point. Frank hasnt shown anything to me other than he can maybe be a solid role player down the line. Guys like that are tradable for the right deal

if he hasn't shown anything to you...why do you think you will get any value for him?

Me personally I don't think he a would bring back a ton. But I know he's still young and a lot of GMs and fans fall for the ole "Potential" ideology so theres always that chance a GM bites and gives away more than he's probably worth

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

[stuporman]

I guess elite defensive play from a 20 year old player that other GMs ask about all the time is something to let develop for more than 100 games into a career is too much to ask from impatient highlight video chasers.

[JXL]

Here I am laughing at the non-patient fans here:

[ForzaMetro]

Speaking of TheRinger podcasts, Bill Simmons tossed out an interesting proposal on his pod:

Tim Hardaway Jr for Wes Matthews’ contract

Case for NYK
- obvious

Case for Dallas
- The west is a muddled mess and they have no incentive to tank since they traded pick to get Doncic
- Doncic is more suited to play for a veteran laden team so it makes some sense to acquire good vets sooner than later
- THJR is pretty good

I don't see what unloading Timmy does for us. unless we sign a superstar and draft a superstar, we aren't going to do anything. All getting rid of Timmy does is give our front office an opportunity to overpay another player instead.

Can’t sign a superstar without having the cap space for one...this trade gets us that space

[King of Canada]

Is The Ringer the new ESPN??? Does Chad Fraud work there?

[GONYK]

Is The Ringer the new ESPN??? Does Chad Fraud work there?

Simmons formed it after ESPN fired him

[TBri1974]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/11/27/18115116/the-mismatch-can-rockets-and-jazz-turn-it-around

Starting at the 36 minute talk - Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Conner talk a good 10 minutes on the Knicks. Vernon claims to have spoke to a lot of people closely involved in the franchise.

Key Point -

1 - The organization LOVES trier and is also really high on Mitchell Robinson future.
2- Mario experiment feeling like disappointment
3 - disappointment in Knox thus far
4 - everyone Vernon talked to within the organization is OUT on Frank and his future.


I'm sure I missed some points, and some of these conclusions we could've come to ourselves, but it is interesting to hear from someone who claims to have inside knowledge.

'Out' meaning the jury is still out?

[cuyankees]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/11/27/18115116/the-mismatch-can-rockets-and-jazz-turn-it-around

Starting at the 36 minute talk - Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Conner talk a good 10 minutes on the Knicks. Vernon claims to have spoke to a lot of people closely involved in the franchise.

Key Point -

1 - The organization LOVES trier and is also really high on Mitchell Robinson future.
2- Mario experiment feeling like disappointment
3 - disappointment in Knox thus far
4 - everyone Vernon talked to within the organization is OUT on Frank and his future.


I'm sure I missed some points, and some of these conclusions we could've come to ourselves, but it is interesting to hear from someone who claims to have inside knowledge.

You can tell this is true by the way fizdale is coaching the kid. Its like hes already given up on him.

**** this franchise man.

Very apparent and as I’ve said earlier, Frank is gone, it’s comical that 2 different talking heads have literally said the same things that myself and a few others have observed and discussed, but got clowned for.

[DOT]

if he hasn't shown anything to you...why do you think you will get any value for him?

Me personally I don't think he a would bring back a ton. But I know he's still young and a lot of GMs and fans fall for the ole "Potential" ideology so theres always that chance a GM bites and gives away more than he's probably worth

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

If all Frank does on offense is get his 3pt% up to even 38% consistently, he'd be an immensely valuable asset to a good team

Like the guard version of Draymond. Maybe he never becomes a full time PG, and if all he does is become a 3+D guy with good passing, sure that's a little disappointing, but that's a guy any good team would love to have

[King of Canada]

Is The Ringer the new ESPN??? Does Chad Fraud work there?

Simmons formed it after ESPN fired him

Figures Sounds like more of the same to me.

[King of Canada]

Me personally I don't think he a would bring back a ton. But I know he's still young and a lot of GMs and fans fall for the ole "Potential" ideology so theres always that chance a GM bites and gives away more than he's probably worth

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

If all Frank does on offense is get his 3pt% up to even 38% consistently, he'd be an immensely valuable asset to a good team

Like the guard version of Draymond. Maybe he never becomes a full time PG, and if all he does is become a 3+D guy with good passing, sure that's a little disappointing, but that's a guy any good team would love to have

The mentality that any and all draft picks are only wanted if they are all stars blows my mind. If you look at every good team they all have key contributors that they drafted.

[GONYK]

Me personally I don't think he a would bring back a ton. But I know he's still young and a lot of GMs and fans fall for the ole "Potential" ideology so theres always that chance a GM bites and gives away more than he's probably worth

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

If all Frank does on offense is get his 3pt% up to even 38% consistently, he'd be an immensely valuable asset to a good team

Like the guard version of Draymond. Maybe he never becomes a full time PG, and if all he does is become a 3+D guy with good passing, sure that's a little disappointing, but that's a guy any good team would love to have

OKC fell off a cliff without Roberson, and he doesn't even provide that.

[ctorres]

I'm done getting all hype up on "potential". I thought Shump was gonna turn out to be at least a nba all defender, but he wasn't. If the right deal comes along for Frank then I would consider shipping him out tbh.

Ironically, Shump is playing the best ball of his career right now with the Kings. Of course it took him 8 years to get there, but good for him!

[DOT]

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

If all Frank does on offense is get his 3pt% up to even 38% consistently, he'd be an immensely valuable asset to a good team

Like the guard version of Draymond. Maybe he never becomes a full time PG, and if all he does is become a 3+D guy with good passing, sure that's a little disappointing, but that's a guy any good team would love to have

The mentality that any and all draft picks are only wanted if they are all stars blows my mind. If you look at every good team they all have key contributors that they drafted.

Especially when an all star hasn't been picked 8th since 1993

Looked it up for a discussion over the summer, seems like 8th pick generally gets you a good role player, with very few busts but also very few stars, while 9th pick will get you either an all star or a bench warmer, with little in between. So, really I don't expect Frank to be a star, never really did. Best I got was Jrue Holiday, but not what he is now, more of what Jrue averages out over his career being Frank's peak, 15/6 with great defense

[fatalogic]

on the athletic pod cast the guys called him a top 3 defender at the point of attack in the entire NBA which at 20 years old is NUTS...why in the word do you give that up??? Instead focus on getting him to just to an average offensive player and you have a very impactful player.

If all Frank does on offense is get his 3pt% up to even 38% consistently, he'd be an immensely valuable asset to a good team

Like the guard version of Draymond. Maybe he never becomes a full time PG, and if all he does is become a 3+D guy with good passing, sure that's a little disappointing, but that's a guy any good team would love to have

OKC fell off a cliff without Roberson, and he doesn't even provide that.

Maybe last year, seems like they figured it out this year #1 in defensive rating but I get what your saying. If Frank became a Dray type player I'd be more than happy. This year he needs to hit his open shots.

[TBri1974]

Speaking of TheRinger podcasts, Bill Simmons tossed out an interesting proposal on his pod:

Tim Hardaway Jr for Wes Matthews’ contract

Case for NYK
- obvious

Case for Dallas
- The west is a muddled mess and they have no incentive to tank since they traded pick to get Doncic
- Doncic is more suited to play for a veteran laden team so it makes some sense to acquire good vets sooner than later
- THJR is pretty good

I don't see what unloading Timmy does for us. unless we sign a superstar and draft a superstar, we aren't going to do anything. All getting rid of Timmy does is give our front office an opportunity to overpay another player instead.

Can’t sign a superstar without having the cap space for one...this trade gets us that space

I understand both sides of this argument, but I think THJ's age, lack of defense and poor shot selection make him a poor fit for this team. I'd rather take a longer look at Dotson and Trier and be out of his contract, but yes, that is with the understanding we don't replace him with some other poor signing. Actually, if we got rid of THJ I could see keeping Lee around another year for the leadership and to mentor others. I would unload THJ if I could, but I don't think the Knicks see it that way.