Nassir Little

[PLO]

Not a lottery level guy right now and that's in a pretty bad draft. In fact I have a hard time seeing him as a first rounder, no doubt though even if this level of play keeps up he'll go there because of "upside".

yeah cause the draft is all about drafting the guys that perform best in college, seriously... we have had NBA stars that were 7th man in college as freshman, like if you can't see past the circumstances and get the whole picture I am not sure what's the point

"past the circumstances" that apparently he has no talent, apart from physical measureables? No, I guess I'm not seeing past those circumstances.

Have you watched this most recent game? After having done so do you really think he's going to be ready to be drafted in the lottery after this season? Because if he is, on the basis of what we've seen so far, its not because of the standard of his play.

[PLO]

I'm not going to harp on it but he's basically invisible in this game, except when he's turning it over. This guy is a top 5 pick?

I'd advise people to watch these players in HS, college is extremely SSS and you need to get a real idea of their resume and game in other circumstances, basketball isn't that simple

There are also high school stars who never made the NBA, this cuts both ways.

[PLO]

Couple things here, he has gotten massive over the summer, added mass and he has not gotten the right body control, feel for his new weight, he was more of a nimble, herky-jerky type player, secondly, Roy wants him to crash the boards, play off the ball and hit the occasional 3, he has been doing that at a high level, the system has no place for him as a handler

if you combine that the guy has lost some of his traits or is in the process to add them back to a confident level with his new physique, and that the system is everything but conducive to him handling it and showcasing that type of game... well, that's the result

I think patience is necessary with Little, I believe in him as a prospect, needs to adjust to his added strength (has lost some grip, confidence as a handler, and clearly doesn't have the same body control, you can see it with his strides while he dribbles), but has still been productive on a different role and playing in a system that isn't ideal for him

Ultimately he would have been much better in a motion offense like Gonzaga's

This is an absurd argument, mainly because 100% of young men his age are dealing with "added mass", yet the great majority of college freshmen who ended up being drafted high were able to sail through that because they had actual basketball talent. They also showed that talent in college despite having "added mass" or getting "massive".

Fair enough, you believe in Little - I'm really basing my opinion on the games I've seen him in college. I've seen some snatches of his high school tape previously and had really high hopes for him coming into this year. At this stage, to my eyes, he's been desperately disappointing this season.

I prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes rather than the "hope" you seem to be trusting in.

[No-Man]

I haven't seen the Michigan game no, have seen every other game he has played this season and watched him a ton both during the All Star circuit and AAU, all I am saying is that projecting it's a big part of it and players' games don't come together at the same rate, Little has basic tools that guarantee that he should go in the 1st round almost regardless of production (and his production is up there statistically with some of the best frosh anyway), I think you need to know context, how he has changed physically over a year, what his role for this Carolina team is, etc, before you judge him for his on-court play only

And again, this ain't about drafting the best college players, if that was the case it'd be freaking easy

I wasn't talking about Little's level of play in HS or him been a star there = NBA star, I was talking about knowing the player and the game he had in HS to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand what he is doing now, why, where is he failing and how optimistic we can be about him improving in some of those areas

He can obviously fail, every player can, but again, on physical tools+shooting acumen+age+character he is a lock to go top20 even if he was absolutely awful this whole year (which hasn't been the case), it's like when people bashed Mikal Bridges, or De'Andre Hunter now, cause they are old and not producing at an elite level in any category (Mikal was there with stocks though, and people need to consider Hunter's context at UVA much more), it doesn't matter man, you take those guys in the top20 even if they were bad (not the case), anytime

It's the same with pass rushers in football, if the guy shows the skill every now and then and has the measurements, body type, length, etc..., he is going high, 100%

But again you were bothered by Little not starting for UNC even though he was/is top5 in minutes, and you brought up again that he isn't playing cause he isn't good, when he has sticked to what Roy has asked from him for the most part (physicality, presence on the boards, running the floor, stay active off-ball,...), and has produced at a high level doing so, I haven't watched the game last night but I doubt he was the main reason behind Michigan destroying them completely

[PLO]

I haven't seen the Michigan game no, have seen every other game he has played this season and watched him a ton both during the All Star circuit and AAU, all I am saying is that projecting it's a big part of it and players' games don't come together at the same rate, Little has basic tools that guarantee that he should go in the 1st round almost regardless of production (and his production is up there statistically with some of the best frosh anyway), I think you need to know context, how he has changed physically over a year, what his role for this Carolina team is, etc, before you judge him for his on-court play only

And again, this ain't about drafting the best college players, if that was the case it'd be freaking easy

I wasn't talking about Little's level of play in HS or him been a star there = NBA star, I was talking about knowing the player and the game he had in HS to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand what he is doing now, why, where is he failing and how optimistic we can be about him improving in some of those areas

He can obviously fail, every player can, but again, on physical tools+shooting acumen+age+character he is a lock to go top20 even if he was absolutely awful this whole year (which hasn't been the case), it's like when people bashed Mikal Bridges, or De'Andre Hunter now, cause they are old and not producing at an elite level in any category (Mikal was there with stocks though, and people need to consider Hunter's context at UVA much more), it doesn't matter man, you take those guys in the top20 even if they were bad (not the case), anytime

It's the same with pass rushers in football, if the guy shows the skill every now and then and has the measurements, body type, length, etc..., he is going high, 100%

Oh, no doubt he's going high, I've no doubt about that, for the reasons you outlined. Does he deserve to though, that's the issue.

[No-Man]

Couple things here, he has gotten massive over the summer, added mass and he has not gotten the right body control, feel for his new weight, he was more of a nimble, herky-jerky type player, secondly, Roy wants him to crash the boards, play off the ball and hit the occasional 3, he has been doing that at a high level, the system has no place for him as a handler

if you combine that the guy has lost some of his traits or is in the process to add them back to a confident level with his new physique, and that the system is everything but conducive to him handling it and showcasing that type of game... well, that's the result

I think patience is necessary with Little, I believe in him as a prospect, needs to adjust to his added strength (has lost some grip, confidence as a handler, and clearly doesn't have the same body control, you can see it with his strides while he dribbles), but has still been productive on a different role and playing in a system that isn't ideal for him

Ultimately he would have been much better in a motion offense like Gonzaga's

This is an absurd argument, mainly because 100% of young men his age are dealing with "added mass", yet the great majority of college freshmen who ended up being drafted high were able to sail through that because they had actual basketball talent. They also showed that talent in college despite having "added mass" or getting "massive".

Fair enough, you believe in Little - I'm really basing my opinion on the games I've seen him in college. I've seen some snatches of his high school tape previously and had really high hopes for him coming into this year. At this stage, to my eyes, he's been desperately disappointing this season.

I prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes rather than the "hope" you seem to be trusting in.

I trust on having watched him a ton before the SSS we have from college and I also know because I have done my homework what Roy and UNC is asking out of him so I can judge the guy fairly for his play

Again, which top prospect has changed physically all that much? you said that you watched some of his tape from HS, then you should've noticed it, it's not the same for the rest, RJ, Zion, Cam, they all look very much the same to my eye, some guys mature earlier (Zion), or never get there (maybe Cam, or Ja Morant for example), generalizing with that it's just stupid, every case has its own particularities

Also again, you are treating Little as if he had been god awful, within the role that he has for UNC, he has been insanely productive so far, again he is trying to follow the script that Roy and the coaching staff have outlined for him, SSS and all but 2nd highest net rating in the team, 8.7 BPM, 7.5TO% with a 24 usg%, rebounding like a champ, 61.2TS%, 6 3PA per 100 poss, 2.8 stocks per 100 poss, I mean, we are not talking James Michael McAdoo or PJ Washington stinking up the joint here

[No-Man]

I haven't seen the Michigan game no, have seen every other game he has played this season and watched him a ton both during the All Star circuit and AAU, all I am saying is that projecting it's a big part of it and players' games don't come together at the same rate, Little has basic tools that guarantee that he should go in the 1st round almost regardless of production (and his production is up there statistically with some of the best frosh anyway), I think you need to know context, how he has changed physically over a year, what his role for this Carolina team is, etc, before you judge him for his on-court play only

And again, this ain't about drafting the best college players, if that was the case it'd be freaking easy

I wasn't talking about Little's level of play in HS or him been a star there = NBA star, I was talking about knowing the player and the game he had in HS to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand what he is doing now, why, where is he failing and how optimistic we can be about him improving in some of those areas

He can obviously fail, every player can, but again, on physical tools+shooting acumen+age+character he is a lock to go top20 even if he was absolutely awful this whole year (which hasn't been the case), it's like when people bashed Mikal Bridges, or De'Andre Hunter now, cause they are old and not producing at an elite level in any category (Mikal was there with stocks though, and people need to consider Hunter's context at UVA much more), it doesn't matter man, you take those guys in the top20 even if they were bad (not the case), anytime

It's the same with pass rushers in football, if the guy shows the skill every now and then and has the measurements, body type, length, etc..., he is going high, 100%

Oh, no doubt he's going high, I've no doubt about that, for the reasons you outlined. Does he deserve to though, that's the issue.

He might not deserve to go top5 in hindsight, who knows, the draft is complicated, does he deserve to go in the 1st? regardless of how you feel about his play, 100000%, that was a ridiculous thing to say on your part

I can understand that you feel queasy about him as a top3-5 pick, heck even top10 I guess (although I don't see how, everybody else has had similar performance issues, but w/e), but claiming that he shouldn't go in the 1st round is just lunacy or ignorance, sorry

[PLO]

I've said my piece on him, I'm not going to spray my opinion on it here over and over again. I'll try and watch some of the key matchups he has coming up over the next month or so. I'll be interested to see how he goes against Duke, I think in January, at least defensively.

At the moment though, on the basis of what I've seen, I'll stick with my lunacy and ignorance.

[PLO]

Couple things here, he has gotten massive over the summer, added mass and he has not gotten the right body control, feel for his new weight, he was more of a nimble, herky-jerky type player, secondly, Roy wants him to crash the boards, play off the ball and hit the occasional 3, he has been doing that at a high level, the system has no place for him as a handler

if you combine that the guy has lost some of his traits or is in the process to add them back to a confident level with his new physique, and that the system is everything but conducive to him handling it and showcasing that type of game... well, that's the result

I think patience is necessary with Little, I believe in him as a prospect, needs to adjust to his added strength (has lost some grip, confidence as a handler, and clearly doesn't have the same body control, you can see it with his strides while he dribbles), but has still been productive on a different role and playing in a system that isn't ideal for him

Ultimately he would have been much better in a motion offense like Gonzaga's

This is an absurd argument, mainly because 100% of young men his age are dealing with "added mass", yet the great majority of college freshmen who ended up being drafted high were able to sail through that because they had actual basketball talent. They also showed that talent in college despite having "added mass" or getting "massive".

Fair enough, you believe in Little - I'm really basing my opinion on the games I've seen him in college. I've seen some snatches of his high school tape previously and had really high hopes for him coming into this year. At this stage, to my eyes, he's been desperately disappointing this season.

I prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes rather than the "hope" you seem to be trusting in.

I trust on having watched him a ton before the SSS we have from college and I also know because I have done my homework what Roy and UNC is asking out of him so I can judge the guy fairly for his play

Again, which top prospect has changed physically all that much? you said that you watched some of his tape from HS, then you should've noticed it, it's not the same for the rest, RJ, Zion, Cam, they all look very much the same to my eye, some guys mature earlier (Zion), or never get there (maybe Cam, or Ja Morant for example), generalizing with that it's just stupid, every case has its own particularities

Also again, you are treating Little as if he had been god awful, within the role that he has for UNC, he has been insanely productive so far, again he is trying to follow the script that Roy and the coaching staff have outlined for him, SSS and all but 2nd highest net rating in the team, 8.7 BPM, 7.5TO% with a 24 usg%, rebounding like a champ, 61.2TS%, 6 3PA per 100 poss, 2.8 stocks per 100 poss, I mean, we are not talking James Michael McAdoo or PJ Washington stinking up the joint here

I don't think its generalising to state that humans go through adolescence at which time they gain weight. In fact I think that's an immutable fact, barring a few poor souls kept from that inevitability by some medical condition.

If you want a list of players who have gained weight/mass between high school and college, I could provide it. It would be a long one, however.

Quite funny, against the cake opponents in UNC's early schedule, players probably barely above the level Little has faced in high school, he's statistically performing. Against actual college level talent, like last night? Not so much.

[No-Man]

Again, compared to some of this year's top prospects, who has gone through a similar transformation? I'd wait, I mean it's just not real, people go through those at different times, most males change physically the most at 16-17, not 18-19, Little has added a good deal of mass and it shows, I am just stating the obvious

Also if you are throwing out his level of performing against cake opponents, what are we doing with Bol? what about Ja Morant lol (and we can just go on and on and on), like it's college, low level opponents are out there, small sample size it's an issue, you are basically agreeing with my argument

So only the game against Michigan counts, which means, that you are judging the guy's performance and deeming him unworthy of getting picked as a 1st round selection from that

Cool man, I'd stick with my previous assessment, ignorance or lunacy, and I don't mean it in a personal manner and please don't get offended, but come on now, first you are judging the guy on the basis of not starting as a true freshman for his college team, even though we all know Roy Williams and even though Nassir has been top5 in minutes (and top3 in production honestly), and now you are coming right back with the level of competition and just not considering any of the circumstances/context for his level of play, or lack there of in your opinion

Dunno, not gonna say you have an agenda, but the fact that you are not even entertaining reasoning when somebody is trying to inform you on certain things that might matter for the whole picture, kinda says so

And Nassir Little might very well suck long term, I have no idea, but ignoring the facts around his current level of play it's just unfair and stupid imho

[PLO]

I don't think I do agree with your argument, because your argument seems to be that he's an average NBA top 5 or 10 level talent, as in an average NBA draft. Clearly, if you actually watch him play right now, that's exactly what he's not. Not only that, and much more worryingly, he hasn't shown a scintilla of actual skill that will project to the next level, outside of physical measureables.

I'm not comparing him to other players in this draft, because this is a very weak draft. I'm more concerned about how he will perform in the NBA, not against other players in his draft class. Ja Morant is irrelevant to this discussion, outside of the fact he shows how weak this class is given he's being talked as a top 5 pick.

The Michigan game was the third one of his I've watched this season.

I mentioned his cake schedule because you threw these stats out there as if they are even relevant when you actually eyeball him. Like its great he can dominate against the St Francis Red Flash, I'm sure that has nothing to do with he's "top 5" in this stat or that stat, but still looks like a bad prospect.

I know you're stating the obvious vis a vis his mass - but 100% of players are going through physical changes as well at that stage given they are at the end of adolescence and undergoing a college-level strength and conditioning program. Hasn't stopped scores of previous top prospects from showing actual NBA level talent, why should it stop him? Unless, he actually is a mediocre talent to begin with.

Those are the facts around his current level of play, and frankly its stupid to say otherwise.

[No-Man]

I don't think I do agree with your argument, because your argument seems to be that he's an average NBA top 5 or 10 level talent, as in an average NBA draft. Clearly, if you actually watch him play right now, that's exactly what he's not. Not only that, and much more worryingly, he hasn't shown a scintilla of actual skill that will project to the next level, outside of physical measureables.

I'm not comparing him to other players in this draft, because this is a very weak draft. I'm more concerned about how he will perform in the NBA, not against other players in his draft class. Ja Morant is irrelevant to this discussion, outside of the fact he shows how weak this class is given he's being talked as a top 5 pick.

The Michigan game was the third one of his I've watched this season.

I mentioned his cake schedule because you threw these stats out there as if they are even relevant when you actually eyeball him. Like its great he can dominate against the St Francis Red Flash, I'm sure that has nothing to do with he's "top 5" in this stat or that stat, but still looks like a bad prospect.

I know you're stating the obvious vis a vis his mass - but 100% of players are going through physical changes as well at that stage given they are at the end of adolescence and undergoing a college-level strength and conditioning program. Hasn't stopped scores of previous top prospects from showing actual NBA level talent, why should it stop him? Unless, he actually is a mediocre talent to begin with.

Those are the facts around his current level of play, and frankly its stupid to say otherwise.

Man I haven't said such a thing, regarding avg top5-10 or what have you, all I have said is that he would go 1st round and with merit in any draft, and that saying otherwise is just a knee jerk reaction/dumb if you can't see what makes him a NBA prospect or you don't see actual skill (can count the number of players with his size/athleticism package that can shoot off movement like he does and that care and lock up guys 1on1 on D with one hand over the last 20 drafts literally), I don't know what to tell you

Again, every player go through cake schedules, why do you think Bol has been dominating and how do you think he has looked when he has playing against actual bigs or tall dudes? like Iowa for example

Every player is attached to its draft, Little been a top3-5-10 or whatever talent is always in relation with his class, SSS is an issue with the NCAA for every prospect and that's why going through determinants/context/previous performance is damn important

Not even physical changes affect the same way to every player man, you are just generalizing out of your ass here, guys like Zion haven't changed since they were 16 all that much, whereas Nas has added strength this summer and it shows on his body control, his strides while he moves, his handle, it affects different players in different ways because every guy has a different set of skills and a body type to go along with them, and again, you are saying that it happens for everybody, IT DOESNT, and it doesnt at the same age either, I asked you to tell me which top ranked guys have changed all that much physically since last season and I am still waiting

What it's stupid is to keep banging your head against a wall instead of listening and considering context and factors that matter in the equation, I am not even saying that Little is good right now, or not, just stating things that matter to his level of play, or lack there of, and that saying that he doesnt belong in the 1st round is just idiotic when you consider his tools, but again you were more worried about him not starting (even after we told you how Roy operates repeteadly with 5 stars frosh over the years and that he was playing top5 minutes) than about his game, or what he was as a prospect in HS, or what makes a guy like Little a premium prospect, or how he is been used, what Roy asks him to do and how that actually makes sense or not with his playing style

But apparently those don't matter or aren't "facts"? like you are judging the dude in a vacuum without considering what UNC is trying to do on the court, what is he asked to do, what the system that they run puts him through or expect of his role, how Michigan in this game actually countered that? (again I haven't watched it yet) etc, all of those matter

From the couples clips I have seen of him having issues attacking Teske for example, you can see how he loses ball control and he isn't timing his strides correctly with his dribble while trying to penetrate, that ends up with him having to gather himself to not lose his handle and therefore losing any advantage to get by Teske, and having to get back out, or force a shot

Those are some of the issues related to his physical transformation that I have talked about before, he might adapt eventually and look more like the player he was in HS there, or he might not, it might be that he is a rhythm guy that needs more chances to get comfy out there and dribble opportunities (has been used mainly as an off-ball garbage man bucket getter by UNC's system this season), who knows? it's early, all I am saying is that all that stuff it's a big piece of info to judge the guy

And he might very well suck, and he will still be a no-brainer 1st round pick, everytime, you take that bet 100%, it's not even an argument

[PLO]

^^ lol as if Zion isn't an outlier in every way. Look at the number one picks the previous 10 years and their physical changes they underwent leading up to college and how they performed there. Its a risible argument to state that a player has added strength and size and that will disadvantage him in a physical sport that requires those very characteristics. Basically you're saying its a disadvantage to Anthony Davis that he grew to 6'10" yet was still able to go number one overall, like he would have been much better if he stayed 6'4". Its on its face a ridiculous argument, and should be so for Nas Little.

[No-Man]

^^ lol as if Zion isn't an outlier in every way. Look at the number one picks the previous 10 years and their physical changes they underwent leading up to college and how they performed there. Its a risible argument to state that a player has added strength and size and that will disadvantage him in a physical sport that requires those very characteristics. Basically you're saying its a disadvantage to Anthony Davis that he grew to 6'10" yet was still able to go number one overall, like he would have been much better if he stayed 6'4". Its on its face a ridiculous argument, and should be so for Nas Little.

But we aren't talking about the summer right before they started college man, like I said, Zion changed a whole lot 2 years back, Davis who you used as an example grew to 6'11 way before his Senior season of HS let alone the summer before college, Little has added like 20-25lbs in 5-6 months to his frame, last year we had Ayton and Bagley who largely looked the same as they did in HS, the year before? Fultz, Tatum and Jackson, no real physical change there, neither with Ball (all of them added mass in the NBA, maybe not Josh though, but not in between HS and college), before that you got Simmons, Ingram and Brown, similar bodies between HS Senior and college, I think the only guy I remember on the last few drafts that really added to his body over the summer previous to NCAA bball was Towns, but again he knew that Cal was going to play him in and had pro trainers working for him since he was 15, so he probably did that on purpose and it actually helped the style of play of UK

Also nobody is talking about Nassir as a nº1 pick

And anyway I haven't said that it's a disadvantage, I have said that it's an adjustment, seriously man, you are just picking whatever you want out of what I write, and throwing it back in a way that makes no sense, my english has been rusty the last few days so it might be my fault, but I don't the coherence/connection within your reasoning here

[The-Power]

my english has been rusty the last few days so it might be my fault

Nah, you've made your reasonable and relevant points perfectly clear by now.

[Hoopz Afrik]

He has been kinda underwhelming to start this campaign relative to expectation and buzz. I feel like he'll be a different player once we get into the heart of conference play and moving forward as he gets more comfortable and as Roy gets a better sense of how to utilize/deploy his skillset.

The narrative of him being a potential "top 3 to 5" guy is going to turn into (a more appropriate) "top 10 - lottery" guy.

[shakes0]

I've now seen UNC play a handful of games and if you took the names off the back of the jersey and asked me to rank the UNC players as far as draft prospects I doubt Little would even crack the top 8. I don't follow players until they get to college so it's mind boggling to me that this guy is considered a possible top 3 pick. Honestly, it boggles the mind that this guy is even a possible 1st round pick.

He's not even one of the top 10 freshman in the ACC this year....so far.


So far just an absolute nothing player. Looks like a 4 year college player who might be good by the time he's a junior.


Lets see if he improves as the year goes on, but so far he's been far and away the least impressive hyped freshman in the country.

[skiz2]

Lots of knee jerk reactions to one game. Those of you who have said that you have watched Little all season to justify such an opinion are either not watching the same games or looking for slights at UNC or Little.

Not even a top 8 nba prospect on UNC? Come on now, he is far and away the best NBA prospect on the team and it is not close. That is absurd. Production does not correlate to NBA potential. Least impressive hyped freshman? Yall heard of Javon Quinerly, Ashton hagans, EJ Montgomery, etc?

He played like hot garbage last night, yes. Every 18 year old will have at least one bad game this season.

Here are the facts:
-Nas has scored at all three levels for UNC this season albeit not consistently, he is a late bloomer and putting it together
-Roy has no idea how to use him right now
-Nas has put on muscle really fast and clearly getting used to it
-He has had 1 game where he has played like complete garbage, last night. The other games he always contributed positively, didn't play perfectly, but still played his role and did what he had to do

Quit jumping on the kid after one game. Y'all making these egregious statements then backing it up saying "I have watched several UNC games this season" aren't being honest.

I notice there was not a bunch of people claiming him to be number 1 after his awesome game against UCLA, but are ready to call him a bust after playing against Michigan:

Watch on YouTube

[The-Power]

He produces 24/10 per40 at 59% TS (25 PER) while being young and an impressive athlete, and some people in this thread talk about him as if he doesn't produce at all and question whether he's a first round pick. It's truly ridiculous.

[reanimator]

To say it is one game simply isn't true. Yes, he may very well be adjusting to his physical maturation which is effecting his ability to create space or separation but his decision making with the ball despite those current limitations is a very real concern.

Outside of Texas/UM which are coincidentally his 2 worst games (UCLA is trash), UNC has played a cupcake schedule so referencing stats to this point isn't very persuasive.

That said, it is still incredibly early and he has plenty of time to get it together especially being a freshmen whom often look like different plays come March. I've done work with the kid going back to his junior year of HS so I know the work ethic and have seen the growth but simply dismissing current play or criticism as noise makes no sense. Yes he has an impressive body of work prior to college but there have been plenty of players who did and never got it together. I think he will round into form ( a top 5 pick) eventually but you can only talk about what is in front of you.