Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[Kerrsed]

Differences

1) Doncic at 18 was playing against 30 year olds and getting it done
2) Ayton at 18 was playing against 18-20 years olds and had a questionable motor
3) Would rather have had Doncic with a defense center like Holmes to cover his weaknesses than a non-rim protecting center.

See, my issue with the Holmes over Ayton debate is all you have seen of Holmes is spot minutes. Easy to go out and give 110% when you know you are only playing 13 or 14 minutes per game. Dont have to really worry about stamina, dont have to worry about picking up too many fouls, ect. It allows you to have more leeway and give more. Ayton doesnt have that luxury. That kind of play isnt sustainable for 30-36 minutes a game. I mean Holmes is averaging close to 3 fouls in his 15 minutes per game. He has had 2 games with 5 fouls in under 20 minutes. You dont think his defense or intensity would dip down if he was given Aytons minutes? They would have to if he had any chance to stay in the game. Thats the major drawback when comparing PER36 stats between a starter and a bench player. Not only do the limited minutes play in their favor, but also they are usually playing against lessor competition with the opponents bench in the game at the same time.

I see soooooo many people Gamethread after Gamethread call out Ayton for this and that, and yet i will see Holmes make the same exact mistke minutes later and no one utters a peep. Against Orlando i saw Holmes stand around with Ross blowing past his man and headed to the basket, and all Holmes did was turn his head and watch. I saw that happen twice in almost back to back plays. Nothing. If its Ayton....good lord we will have 6 posts trashing him about it.

It just amazes me, here we have one of the top rookies in the NBA (Should be #1), and all people want to do is pick apart every aspect of the kid, blow up whatever mistakes they can see, and yet be absolutely silent to anything good about him or talk about what he does great. So many people were wanting to go after KAT if we could, and here is Ayton putting up the same numbers KAT did his ROY season, but no one cares but a few posters. People want and expect Ayton to be a finished product at 20 years old in his rookie season.

If this is the bad and unmotivated and full of mistakes Ayton that everybody is trying to say, imagine in a few seasons when he starts picking everything up and putting it all together. That is going to be an unstoppable beast of a player. But as he stands, he is a 20/12 Machine with outstanding percentages in his rookie season with plenty of room to develop and grow in the future.

[bwgood77]

Differences

1) Doncic at 18 was playing against 30 year olds and getting it done
2) Ayton at 18 was playing against 18-20 years olds and had a questionable motor
3) Would rather have had Doncic with a defense center like Holmes to cover his weaknesses than a non-rim protecting center.

See, my issue with the Holmes over Ayton debate is all you have seen of Holmes is spot minutes. Easy to go out and give 110% when you know you are only playing 13 or 14 minutes per game. Dont have to really worry about stamina, dont have to worry about picking up too many fouls, ect. It allows you to have more leeway and give more. Ayton doesnt have that luxury. That kind of play isnt sustainable for 30-36 minutes a game. I mean Holmes is averaging close to 3 fouls in his 15 minutes per game. He has had 2 games with 5 fouls in under 20 minutes. You dont think his defense or intensity would dip down if he was given Aytons minutes? They would have to if he had any chance to stay in the game. Thats the major drawback when comparing PER36 stats between a starter and a bench player. Not only do the limited minutes play in their favor, but also they are usually playing against lessor competition with the opponents bench in the game at the same time.

I see soooooo many people Gamethread after Gamethread call out Ayton for this and that, and yet i will see Holmes make the same exact mistke minutes later and no one utters a peep. Against Orlando i saw Holmes stand around with Ross blowing past his man and headed to the basket, and all Holmes did was turn his head and watch. I saw that happen twice in almost back to back plays. Nothing. If its Ayton....good lord we will have 6 posts trashing him about it.

It just amazes me, here we have one of the top rookies in the NBA (Should be #1), and all people want to do is pick apart every aspect of the kid, blow up whatever mistakes they can see, and yet be absolutely silent to anything good about him or talk about what he does great. So many people were wanting to go after KAT if we could, and here is Ayton putting up the same numbers KAT did his ROY season, but no one cares but a few posters. People want and expect Ayton to be a finished product at 20 years old in his rookie season.

If this is the bad and unmotivated and full of mistakes Ayton that everybody is trying to say, imagine in a few seasons when he starts picking everything up and putting it all together. That is going to be an unstoppable beast of a player. But as he stands, he is a 20/12 Machine with outstanding percentages in his rookie season with plenty of room to develop and grow in the future.

Ayton's obviously better than Holmes, but Holmes plays with a lot more energy. Now perhaps part of that is playing fewer minutes but sometimes Ayton lacks the energy at the beginning.

Ayton still puts up amazing numbers, better than any other rookie, but I can't imagine what he would be like with more energy and effort, though maybe that comes as he works himself more into game shape or just learns positioning better. After all Holmes has experience and watched Embiid.

[Djedefre]

We can see now perfectly well how hard it is to acquire really good playmaker. Yet our FO decided that we needed a center with questionable motor and effort more than a player like Luka. In today's NBA. As if we couldn't draft Mitch Robinson in the very same draft or wait another year and add Gafford. The foundation now would be Doncic('18 #1)-Booker-Bridges('18 #10)-Warren-Gafford('19 1st rounder)/Robinson('18 #31). We'd have playmaking, shooting, rim-protection, rebounding. Defense would still be a problem, but like it's not anyway.

[Archx]

I have watched them too, and while Luka looks good with a high IQ given his age, he also really trails Ayton whether it be advanced stats or raw stats....he has quite a bit worse scoring efficiency, TS% and eFG%, , Ayton has a 6.1 net rating, while Doncic as a -5.5 net rating, and Ayton has a 20.4 PER while Doncic has a 15.6 (league avg is 15). He also has a far better on/off. Those are advance #s. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2019/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/blocks/All/desc/1/Regular_Season?rookies=

For raw stats, despite Ayton playing fewer minutes per game, Ayton is right behind him in points (but his are more valuable due to the much higher efficiency), way ahead in rebounds, double in blocks (despite not being good there yet), and only 1.7 per game behind Luka in assists.. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2019/Averages/Qualified/per/All/desc/1/Regular_Season?rookies=

No, I think most sites had Ayton #1 outside of thestepien. Most all the major sports sites, tankathon, and many others had Ayton 1.
Some had Doncic 1 but some had him lower than 2.

I can see arguments for each of the 3 players, but they are also playing in different circumstances. JJJ benefits from playing with Gasol who can play inside or out, and have a great PG in Conley. I doubt he would look as good with the Suns. And Ayton would look better playing with Conley passing, him and a C who was an ex DPOY candidate and now is a great passer, and can spread the floor and shoot 3s.

Doncic is playing under a seasoned coach and teammates who know the system, have played together, have a number of vets and PGs, and one of the best players of all time...the best euro of all time to help mentor him.

The Suns have a new coach, system, the most roster turnover in the NBA, the youngest team, etc.

People also need to factor in that Doncic is playing professionally for a few seasons now. Honestly he was looking like a 6-7 pick, unathletic euro player just a season or two ago. Yes, he improved, his game translated and is now looking like the best player in the class. So people just need to relax and give a chance to Ayton to do his own improvements before making fun of his deficiencies.

And talking about D he is actually better 1-on-1 defender than Doncic, who I have seen blown by Marcus Morris. He is already proclaimed as a great winner, but how do you see him defending a PF like Giannis, or a SF like Durant/Kawhi, or an elite PG in a playoff game ?

Bottom line, both of them are great offensive players, but will get exposed on defense, so their success is mostly depending on what players they are surrounded with.

Differences

1) Doncic at 18 was playing against 30 year olds and getting it done
2) Ayton at 18 was playing against 18-20 years olds and had a questionable motor
3) Would rather have had Doncic with a defense center like Holmes to cover his weaknesses than a non-rim protecting center.

Omg it's almost impossible to debate anymore. People just bashing each other now. C'mon guys we're all passionate for Suns to succeed but i don't think any of us here is being paid by anyone to trash either players or people commenting.

Anyway.....That is actually a very good point Bigfoot and it's something most of us who are from EU were pointing out before the draft. Suns could have easily either drafted or signed a defensive minded center. And so far, Holmes is proving that he would be a perfect match.

And i still don't understand why people think Luka plays bad defense. He is a much better weak side defender plus he had a lot of success guarding 1 : 1 Kawhi, LBJ and other prominent wings. He didn't guard them for the whole game but still, you get my point. His problem is basically same as Aytons at the moment. They both lack stamina in order to max out their D and offense. They can't do that for extended periods of time. But this is unfortunately a bigger problem for Ayton because he is a center. You can't hide him behind anyone like you can hide a wing for example.

[sunsbg]

We can see now perfectly well how hard it is to acquire really good playmaker. Yet our FO decided that we needed a center with questionable motor and effort more than a player like Luka. In today's NBA. As if we couldn't draft Mitch Robinson in the very same draft or wait another year and add Gafford. The foundation now would be Doncic('18 #1)-Booker-Bridges('18 #10)-Warren-Gafford('19 1st rounder)/Robinson('18 #31). We'd have playmaking, shooting, rim-protection, rebounding. Defense would still be a problem, but like it's not anyway.

Strange take if you are a fan watching the Suns more than 2-3 years.

[bwgood77]

People also need to factor in that Doncic is playing professionally for a few seasons now. Honestly he was looking like a 6-7 pick, unathletic euro player just a season or two ago. Yes, he improved, his game translated and is now looking like the best player in the class. So people just need to relax and give a chance to Ayton to do his own improvements before making fun of his deficiencies.

And talking about D he is actually better 1-on-1 defender than Doncic, who I have seen blown by Marcus Morris. He is already proclaimed as a great winner, but how do you see him defending a PF like Giannis, or a SF like Durant/Kawhi, or an elite PG in a playoff game ?

Bottom line, both of them are great offensive players, but will get exposed on defense, so their success is mostly depending on what players they are surrounded with.

Differences

1) Doncic at 18 was playing against 30 year olds and getting it done
2) Ayton at 18 was playing against 18-20 years olds and had a questionable motor
3) Would rather have had Doncic with a defense center like Holmes to cover his weaknesses than a non-rim protecting center.

Omg it's almost impossible to debate anymore. People just bashing each other now. C'mon guys we're all passionate for Suns to succeed but i don't think any of us here is being paid by anyone to trash either players or people commenting.

Anyway.....That is actually a very good point Bigfoot and it's something most of us who are from EU were pointing out before the draft. Suns could have easily either drafted or signed a defensive minded center. And so far, Holmes is proving that he would be a perfect match.

And i still don't understand why people think Luka plays bad defense. He is a much better weak side defender plus he had a lot of success guarding 1 : 1 Kawhi, LBJ and other prominent wings. He didn't guard them for the whole game but still, you get my point. His problem is basically same as Aytons at the moment. They both lack stamina in order to max out their D and offense. They can't do that for extended periods of time. But this is unfortunately a bigger problem for Ayton because he is a center. You can't hide him behind anyone like you can hide a wing for example.

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

[Archx]

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

I did a separate paragraph so that it would be clear i didn't mean people that i quoted. I guess i could have been more clear. I obviously meant previous posters and people who were trashing Ayton in other forum sections.

I never even knew about these forums before the draft. I stumbled over it accidentally and you asked me the same question then. I am a fan of suns for over 20 years now when they drafted our first Slovenian born player Milic ( if you ever heard about him ). Yes i obviously support Luka and Mavs just come along with the territory.... And F*CK the Lakers... couldn't care less about them.

Don't know why you have a problem with me being a fan and trying to figure out what is or would be best for this team. I wanted Luka because he is to Kokoskov what Nash was to D'antoni, something people just ignored along the way as well.

[sunsbg]

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

I did a separate paragraph so that it would be clear i didn't mean people that i quoted. I guess i could have been more clear. I obviously meant previous posters and people who were trashing Ayton in other forum sections.

I never even knew about these forums before the draft. I stumbled over it accidentally and you asked me the same question then. I am a fan of suns for over 20 years now when they drafted our first Slovenian born player Milic ( if you ever heard about him ). Yes i obviously support Luka and Mavs just come along with the territory.... And F*CK the Lakers... couldn't care less about them.

Don't know why you have a problem with me being a fan and trying to figure out what is or would be best for this team. I wanted Luka because he is to Kokoskov what Nash was to D'antoni, something people just ignored along the way as well.

I surely hope you post here more, rather than some crybaby posters calling others panties.

[bwgood77]

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

I did a separate paragraph so that it would be clear i didn't mean people that i quoted. I guess i could have been more clear. I obviously meant previous posters and people who were trashing Ayton in other forum sections.

I never even knew about these forums before the draft. I stumbled over it accidentally and you asked me the same question then. I am a fan of suns for over 20 years now when they drafted our first Slovenian born player Milic ( if you ever heard about him ). Yes i obviously support Luka and Mavs just come along with the territory.... And F*CK the Lakers... couldn't care less about them.

Don't know why you have a problem with me being a fan and trying to figure out what is or would be best for this team. I wanted Luka because he is to Kokoskov what Nash was to D'antoni, something people just ignored along the way as well.

I don't remember that answer and I remember you telling me you were a fan of the Lakers and had them listed under your name as your team before. But regardless, good to hear you hate them. Also, it's against the overall forum rules to evade the language filter. We don't make a big deal of it here, but instead of putting an asterisk in the middle of a curse word, you can just type out the word and it will be filtered out. People will likely no what you mean but kids reading forums won't see it spelled out like that.

I should remember Milic but don't really remember him. I imagine you were a Dragic fan as well, and I know a Kokoskov fan...so wanted us to draft Luka.

I didn't mean anything negative, but was just curious again since you still post. Forgot you were a Suns fan for 20 years if you mentioned it before.

[Archx]

I surely hope you post here more, rather than some crybaby posters calling others panties.

Haha thnx.

I don't remember that answer and I remember you telling me you were a fan of the Lakers and had them listed under your name as your team before. But regardless, good to hear you hate them. Also, it's against the overall forum rules to evade the language filter. We don't make a big deal of it here, but instead of putting an asterisk in the middle of a curse word, you can just type out the word and it will be filtered out. People will likely no what you mean but kids reading forums won't see it spelled out like that.

I should remember Milic but don't really remember him. I imagine you were a Dragic fan as well, and I know a Kokoskov fan...so wanted us to draft Luka.

I didn't mean anything negative, but was just curious again since you still post. Forgot you were a Suns fan for 20 years if you mentioned it before.

Yea its all good. Lakers lost all the charm when Kobe retired, tried but couldn't hang on to them.. Not to mention my shock when they signed Nash at that time

Yea i was disappointed when Dragic left, could have been a gem right now as well. That was the first time that i heard about how messed up the FO is actually.

[Ryu]

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

I did a separate paragraph so that it would be clear i didn't mean people that i quoted. I guess i could have been more clear. I obviously meant previous posters and people who were trashing Ayton in other forum sections.

I never even knew about these forums before the draft. I stumbled over it accidentally and you asked me the same question then. I am a fan of suns for over 20 years now when they drafted our first Slovenian born player Milic ( if you ever heard about him ). Yes i obviously support Luka and Mavs just come along with the territory.... And F*CK the Lakers... couldn't care less about them.

Don't know why you have a problem with me being a fan and trying to figure out what is or would be best for this team. I wanted Luka because he is to Kokoskov what Nash was to D'antoni, something people just ignored along the way as well.

LA Kings fan because of Anze Kopitar, I suppose?

Pozdrav, Slovenac, i cesce pise ovde.

[Archx]

LA Kings fan because of Anze Kopitar, I suppose?

Pozdrav, Slovenac, i cesce pise ovde.

Hehe poz Yep cos' of Kopitar

[Frank Lee]

Spoiler:

Who is bashing each other in these three posts you quoted? Exactly why are you passionate for the Suns to succeed as a Lakers fan? And also I guess a Mavs fan. I know you are a huge Doncic fan and started posting here after we got the #1 pick and might take him, but exactly why are you passionate for the Suns especially as a main fan as our biggest rival and another team who has been a rival in the past. Not something I've seen before.

I do agree that Doncic isn't a bad defender, and also that it's much more important at the C position especially as a last line of defense, and for rim protection.

I did a separate paragraph so that it would be clear i didn't mean people that i quoted. I guess i could have been more clear. I obviously meant previous posters and people who were trashing Ayton in other forum sections.

I never even knew about these forums before the draft. I stumbled over it accidentally and you asked me the same question then. I am a fan of suns for over 20 years now when they drafted our first Slovenian born player Milic ( if you ever heard about him ). Yes i obviously support Luka and Mavs just come along with the territory.... And F*CK the Lakers... couldn't care less about them.

Don't know why you have a problem with me being a fan and trying to figure out what is or would be best for this team. I wanted Luka because he is to Kokoskov what Nash was to D'antoni, something people just ignored along the way as well.

I surely hope you post here more, rather than some crybaby posters calling others panties.

You seem to have difficulty with understanding the English language. Saying someone has 'ruffled panties' is an expression indicating they may take offense to a joke or comment. Surely you know that. I am in no way implying you or anyone else is a woman's undergarment. However, I do not retract my comments about the girlish demeanor of our #1 pick. If you choose to refute that and claim my opinion of this former 'Mildcat' C is in error, then please do so....

lace and ruffles optional.

[bwgood77]

The biggest problem with comparing Ayton to a girl, is that it's demeaning to girls. I don't mean that in a way to knock Ayton, but it is implying all girls are a certain way.

[Frank Lee]

Careful Bgood... you are close to stepping in it... what ever it is

[bigfoot]

The biggest problem with comparing Ayton to a girl, is that it's demeaning to girls. I don't mean that in a way to knock Ayton, but it is implying all girls are a certain way.

Like I said ... spoilers demeaning to girls as well. My daughter is a Suns fan and I would expect she would be ticked at some of the non-PC things on this board. You either go PC all the way or not. Halfway is a bad place to be sitting.

[handsome salary]

Chandler outrebounding Ayton in 5 less minutes.

This organization is so **** pathetic.

[bigfoot]

Chandler outrebounding Ayton in 5 less minutes.

This organization is so **** pathetic.

Their bench is out rebounding our bench by 18. This is not on Ayton or the starting lineup.

[bwgood77]

The biggest problem with comparing Ayton to a girl, is that it's demeaning to girls. I don't mean that in a way to knock Ayton, but it is implying all girls are a certain way.

Like I said ... spoilers demeaning to girls as well. My daughter is a Suns fan and I would expect she would be ticked at some of the non-PC things on this board. You either go PC all the way or not. Halfway is a bad place to be sitting.

Well as far as spoilers go, I only post those who are models and post that stuff out there and want to be known for posing for photos.

[bwgood77]

Chandler outrebounding Ayton in 5 less minutes.

This organization is so **** pathetic.

Chandler led the NBA in rebounding a couple years ago. Or if not, close to it. And he knows Ayton's weaknesses. Still, Ayton with 10 in 23 minutes. Not too shabby for a rookie.

And what seriously can we expect as far as this game with our top two scorers out. We were in this game before Booker went out.