Why we should trade for John Wall (Poll)

[Audi]

My reference to the free agents we would supposedly attract was from others saying Wall would help attract them. Thing is, you would not know now, just like last year this time we would not have known that Wall or Beal or Butler would have been available this year. Just like no one knew Blake would get traded and then he was. That's why you keep your flexibility if you can. We aren't Boston with assets and picks galore but if Wall isn't going to upgrade you significantly then why do it?

There's no guarantee Beal would leave. Even with the mess up there, he reportedly still wants to stay so apparently cracking the playoffs is okay with him and maybe would be even more fine on his own team. It's fine if you didn't want to go for Beal, but my only point in mentioning that is that i feel we would be in better position to do something around Beal with the assets we have left than to bring in Wall and be stuck on a treadmill. Hell, i would rather keep growing slowly and try to pry away Sato and leave them both there.

We need an above average starting PG, go-to scorer, free throws and a playmaker. Wall provides all of this and would be a significant upgrade for this team.

You always quote me without the edit lol. Sure he would be an upgrade, that isn't in dispute. It's the cost of the upgrade. That's not really saying anything to say he'd be better than anyone else on our team. WE have no star!! Of course he would. That doesn't mean we would be a top team. No evidence he would take us any further than he has taken Washington. We need a point guard. We don't NEED a 40mil a year point guard.

Sure, but what other players could we realistically sign for that 40 mil who would make us a top team?
I think he would definitely elevate us further than Washington - the proof being in that our surrounding cast is better than what he has in Was. Even Curry couldn’t lead that squad to the promised land.

If it sounds like I’m gung ho on Wall, I’m not. I’d rather have a Russell/Beal than Wall...but I fear that Beal is going to cost far too much and we will lose one of Bamba/Isaac to get there and I’m not willing to make that sacrifice. The reason the salary dump for Wall is attractive is because we grab an all star PG without losing our young core. That’s significant (to me, anyway). Having him take up all that cap space is a concern, sure, but I don’t think we are a FA destination at this point anyway. It concerns me much less than his ability to play under Clifford/attitude issues/team chemistry/etc.

[woosah]

Sure, but what other players could we realistically sign for that 40 mil who would make us a top team?
I think he would definitely elevate us further than Washington - the proof being in that our surrounding cast is better than what he has in Was. Even Curry couldn’t lead that squad to the promised land.

If it sounds like I’m gung ho on Wall, I’m not. I’d rather have a Russell/Beal than Wall...but I fear that Beal is going to cost far too much and we will lose one of Bamba/Isaac to get there and I’m not willing to make that sacrifice. The reason the salary dump for Wall is attractive is because we grab an all star PG without losing our young core. That’s significant (to me, anyway). Having him take up all that cap space is a concern, sure, but I don’t think we are a FA destination at this point anyway. It concerns me much less than his ability to play under Clifford/attitude issues/team chemistry/etc.

I don't think that is the right question. We aren't a top team now, and spending the 40 isn't going to make us one either so why do it? For a leader? He's no leader. They constantly have locker room drama. He does the lebron crap of throwing teammates under the bus when they don't win according to the fans and i was reading some stuff going back a couple of seasons where he checked out of a game and said "they don't know how to play basketball" of his teammates. Yeah that's what our young teammates who need to build confidence need. People think he will come here and everyone will be better and he will be a team guy? When has he shown that? He's a diva. It doesn't even matter if he buys in with Clifford because at that money he'd be hard to move, so if he doesn't then Cliff will be gone. How would that affect our young guys?

I am not so sure he'd make us better than they have been? He is an allstar so we won't talk about how he isn't a good shooter and doesn't play defense really either (source of the beef he had with Gortat), but where are the shooters that would space things for him to be great? Now his bail out is Beal mostly right, and Porter? That's going to be great to have him passing to non-shooting a** Iwundu and Simmons because Fournier will be gone (not that i think they'd even take this proposed Fournier trade lol). This is for next season right, so the pieces would change I guess and so it would be hard to say if we'd improve to a high seed playoff contender or not. I just do not think he is a winning player.

[Def Swami]

If it's purely a salary dump, you could talk me into it.

I have the same reservations as others. His contract has potential to become a huge burden over the next 4 years. It could potentially hamper the Magic's flexibility during that timespan.

The other concern is Wall's knees. He has undergone 3 knee procedures in the past 2 years. For a guy who hasn't really improved his 3 point shooting, and still relies on speed, his game is not destined to age well.

And he's not a great leader. There have been multiple subliminal messages about Wall by his fellow teammates. Wall pretty much stands in a corner and rests his hands on his knees when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and it infuriates his teammates.

All that said, he's an extremely talented player. He'd be a huge upgrade at a position of need for the Magic. But there are multiple reasons why a Wall trade could go south for the Magic as well. Given the other point guards on the market in free agency, I wonder how much the Magic would rather have an opportunity at one of them in favor of age, injury history, and better cultural fit. I understand both viewpoints, but probably lean closer to avoiding a Wall trade.

[NotACat]

If it's purely a salary dump, you could talk me into it.

I have the same reservations as others. His contract has potential to become a huge burden over the next 4 years. It could potentially hamper the Magic's flexibility during that timespan.

The other concern is Wall's knees. He has undergone 3 knee procedures in the past 2 years. For a guy who hasn't really improved his 3 point shooting, and still relies on speed, his game is not destined to age well.

And he's not a great leader. There have been multiple subliminal messages about Wall by his fellow teammates. Wall pretty much stands in a corner and rests his hands on his knees when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and it infuriates his teammates.

All that said, he's an extremely talented player. He'd be a huge upgrade at a position of need for the Magic. But there are multiple reasons why a Wall trade could go south for the Magic as well. Given the other point guards on the market in free agency, I wonder how much the Magic would rather have an opportunity at one of them in favor of age, injury history, and better cultural fit. I understand both viewpoints, but probably lean closer to avoiding a Wall trade.

This points stick out even more when you consider the PG FA market this summer. There's too much talent available at the PG spot when we could get 80% of his production (and maybe more than 100?) in a different PG this summer at less than 50% of the cost.

[OrlandO]

If it's purely a salary dump, you could talk me into it.

I have the same reservations as others. His contract has potential to become a huge burden over the next 4 years. It could potentially hamper the Magic's flexibility during that timespan.

The other concern is Wall's knees. He has undergone 3 knee procedures in the past 2 years. For a guy who hasn't really improved his 3 point shooting, and still relies on speed, his game is not destined to age well.

And he's not a great leader. There have been multiple subliminal messages about Wall by his fellow teammates. Wall pretty much stands in a corner and rests his hands on his knees when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and it infuriates his teammates.

All that said, he's an extremely talented player. He'd be a huge upgrade at a position of need for the Magic. But there are multiple reasons why a Wall trade could go south for the Magic as well. Given the other point guards on the market in free agency, I wonder how much the Magic would rather have an opportunity at one of them in favor of age, injury history, and better cultural fit. I understand both viewpoints, but probably lean closer to avoiding a Wall trade.

This points stick out even more when you consider the PG FA market this summer. There's too much talent available at the PG spot when we could get 80% of his production (and maybe more than 100?) in a different PG this summer at less than 50% of the cost.

Wall is a 21/9 perennial all star, top 5 driver, top 5 assist man, top 10 steals man, and league leader in blocks among guards. We aren't signing anyone that can provide 80-100% of Wall's production. I'm not even sure we're going to have much money this summer as originally thought. Vuc and Ross are playing so well it's going to be difficult for Weltman to let them go if that continues. They've got pretty big cap holds that will eat into space.

[woosah]

We're giving up a guy that avg 13 and getting a guy who avg 21 and isn't a good teammate. An extra 20 mil for 8 pts? I think we can find a pg that can get 10 pts and that would cover his production. Wall isn't bringing leadership and winning ways with his 21 pts a game.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Watch on YouTube

Yes, please.

what about his game just before this one, where he went 4-15 for 11 pts?

no one says he isnt a good player. He isnt good enough to command 1/3 the salary cap of a team.

What’s with that gang sign he throws up after pull up 3?

[dsg2021]

I ultimately lean towards no because I find it difficult for ORL to make advantageous cap deals and stay flexible for trade opportunities in those 4 summers. I believe WeHam would be happier to find more fair deals in FA like they did with Simmons and Aaron.

I also find it very smart that WeHam may not cap out ORL unnecessarily for a team that's not a (big question mark to be a) top 4 seed.
We could stay out of the tax for sure, still, but being close or dipping in in one year is also not nice to ownership for said questionable-to-be-elite team (altho this is a smaller factor).

Probably the biggest factor on the court, the most important reason of all, is WAS's record in the last 4 seasons when John Wall was off the floor. In WAS's games without Wall, they went .500 at 22 wins to 22 losses (doing my best to factor in throw-away playoff-locked, final season games). Then you look at WAS's records with John Wall, they never once reached a 50 win season, coming close only once (at 49 wins one year).

I would be very happy to have John Wall for pennies on the dollar still (which is what his contract dictates), but I'm less for it than other paths.

[drsd]

How come?

Wall is currently the 13th best PG by PER.

Waiting for a shot at Walker still makes more sense. And it's not like the same deal for Wall wouldn't be there in the offseason that would be there right now.
EDIT: Kemba Walker has a 36% 3-ball on 9 attempts a game. This is a Harden-Type stat and is almost ignored.





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[drsd]

Holy moly, Derrick Rose is shooting 49% with his three ball, and is doing so in good usage.

[pepe1991]

We could just sign Rose

[MagicMadness]

I don't like the knee surgeries or leadership issues, but I also don't know if we can draft an all-star PG in the next 4 years that will have the kind of impact Wall will have NOW.

If we were still a cellar-dweller, then I'd say no. But now that we're likely to pick around 11-15 in the draft, we're looking at Elfrid Payton types unless we get lucky. I also question whether or not having cap space is even going to matter, since the last impact player we signed was Rashard Lewis, a decade ago...

I'm not sold on this hypothetical deal, but it's worth debating. In hindsight, I wish we had just signed Derrick Rose.

[IllMagic04]

No no no no. That contract is poison. It be one thing if it were just for a few years but that contract goes all the way to 2023.That means we will be capped out until then when you take into account we will have to sign back our youngsters. No cap flexibility at all. We want to do that for what, a very good PG? Wall is good but the money that he is getting is what you give a superstar. Wall is not A SUPERSTAR. He is a good player but not a superstar player. I'm not even sure he fits. We need a knock down shooter more then a slasher at the pg. Id rather be patient and try to upgrade the pg position without killing our flexibility and still keep our eyes on the draft. Its not impossible to get a guy with a mid pick.

[I Rasharted]

It's not about being a top team. What I'm looking for with a move like this is to be a good team while developing our youth. With the types of players we've drafted into our core we need more than a PG... we need a star PG who can create for himself and others at a high level.