Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[drsd]

I personally still don't see any team giving him 20m per year.

There are 46 players making 20M+ this year.

Some names: Mike Conley, Paul Millsap, Al Horford, Otto Porter, Jrue Holiday, Steven Adams, Chandler Parsons, Harrison Barnes, Nicolas Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Danilo Gallinari, and Ryan Anderson.

That list does not even contain the players over 20M that were once good, but aged terribly. These are players on marginal starter roles. And that is a 20M a year player. Sad, but true.

On the open market there cannot be any doubt that Vučević will command a yearly salary far-north of 20M a year.


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[pepe1991]

If you were to look at the trade as “the #2 pick from a few years ago for Vuc” people would be ecstatic.

Lonzo was the #2 pick because of how he played in one year of college. But now we have 1.25 NBA years to base our analysis on. That's 75 games against NBA competition as compared to 36 games against amateurs. Why on earth should we ignore the larger sample of more reliable evidence and only consider the smaller sample of dramatically less reliable evidence?

Anthony Bennett was a #1 pick, Jahlil Okafor a #3, Mario Hezonja a #5, Jabari Parker a #3 -- would you have us trade for any of them? I wouldn't because we know more about them now than was known when they were drafted, just as we know more about Lonzo now.

Yeah I’m saying on paper it sounds good, but isn’t because Lonzo doesn’t really bring anything positive outside of being a relatively young point guard.

That goes for Lonzo, Frank and probably Fultz who still has some "mistery" around him but i highly doubt he'll ever be anything special after all this drama and his strange injury/condition

[EAS Law]

People here still obsessed with trading Vuc/blaming Vuc for years of incompetent coaching/blaming Vuc for defensive woes as a team are STILL obsessed with getting rid of him while he quietly makes the case to be an All-Star this season.

Amazing.

I'm in the 'wait until February and see if he's still performing at this level' camp. I was over Vuc about 2 years ago but if he can keep this up, I would even consider flipping Bamba at some point. But again, I need to see how this all plays out first... I also hesitate because this could be a 'I'm going all out because this is a contract-year' situation.

I absolutely understand the idea that this is a contract year. I have had the same thought. I will also say though, that Vuc looks to have benefited from Cliff’s schemes of passing, spacing, balanced shooting. I think Vuc will continue to flourish in this system, but of course I agree that it’s wise to wait and see. I think we have to be cautious not to be greedy and try to “sell high”. I think tons of people here get caught up in the idea of selling high without ever realizing that at some point you have to put a roster on the floor and win games even if you aren’t paper champions.

[Knightro]

However, the real mistake will always be not beating that complete bargain of an offer that Dallas made to Atlanta for the #3 pick for an absolute savant like Doncic. It was a miracle that he even got to 3, and we missed on a golden opportunity to get the cornerstone of the next great era of this franchise. That is the latest failure in a long line that will haunt our franchise for a long time. Instead we settled on mediocrity while Dallas became a perfect example of fortune favoring the bold.

For what it's worth, there was no way to beat Dallas' offer because they were drafting ahead of Orlando.

Even if the Magic were willing to offer more than the Mavericks did, it wasn't going to happen because Atlanta wouldn't have gotten Trae at 6 (Dallas would have taken him at 5 or traded out with someone who wanted Trae at 5) which was the whole crux of the deal in the first place for the Hawks.

Now if you want to make the case that the Magic could have offered so much that it would have made Atlanta willing to accept not getting Young... I could buy that, but what would that have been? Three firsts? Four firsts?

[magicman112]

However, the real mistake will always be not beating that complete bargain of an offer that Dallas made to Atlanta for the #3 pick for an absolute savant like Doncic. It was a miracle that he even got to 3, and we missed on a golden opportunity to get the cornerstone of the next great era of this franchise. That is the latest failure in a long line that will haunt our franchise for a long time. Instead we settled on mediocrity while Dallas became a perfect example of fortune favoring the bold.

For what it's worth, there was no way to beat Dallas' offer because they were drafting ahead of Orlando.

Even if the Magic were willing to offer more than the Mavericks did, it wasn't going to happen because Atlanta wouldn't have gotten Trae at 6 (Dallas would have taken him at 5 or traded out with someone who wanted Trae at 5) which was the whole crux of the deal in the first place for the Hawks.

Now if you want to make the case that the Magic could have offered so much that it would have made Atlanta willing to accept not getting Young... I could buy that, but what would that have been? Three firsts? Four firsts?

Exactly. This is not NBA Live or NBA 2K you can't just make a trade because you want to and you can't make a team trade with you if they don't want to.

[VFX]

Lonzo was the #2 pick because of how he played in one year of college. But now we have 1.25 NBA years to base our analysis on. That's 75 games against NBA competition as compared to 36 games against amateurs. Why on earth should we ignore the larger sample of more reliable evidence and only consider the smaller sample of dramatically less reliable evidence?

Anthony Bennett was a #1 pick, Jahlil Okafor a #3, Mario Hezonja a #5, Jabari Parker a #3 -- would you have us trade for any of them? I wouldn't because we know more about them now than was known when they were drafted, just as we know more about Lonzo now.

Yeah I’m saying on paper it sounds good, but isn’t because Lonzo doesn’t really bring anything positive outside of being a relatively young point guard.

That goes for Lonzo, Frank and probably Fultz who still has some "mistery" around him but i highly doubt he'll ever be anything special after all this drama and his strange injury/condition

Yes and with that being said, there is a lot less we could realistically get for trading a player with half a season left on a contract and expecting a payday.

I’ll reiterate that it would be great to see what this FO can cook up offensively without relying on Vucevic. Again, that isn’t to say that he hasn’t helped Orlando’s rebuild post-Dwight, but this team is going to be stuck in neutral with him on it like it or not.

He’s going to get his payday somewhere and will still be playing 28+ minutes a night regardless of where he ends up.That hasn’t helped Orlando up until his contract season and there are realistically very few moves that this FO can make, once he is resigned, to put us into legitimate contention.

People can complain all they want about the possibility of Vuc being moved while he’s playing great ball, but this FO has failed to make moves for the future outside of merely drafting in the lottery and resigning young players. It’s time they finally make a move that isn’t for the short term.

[Blue_and_Whte]

You are probably right, but they’ll have nothing to show for it next season when he walks. If they manage to resign him for his asking price for a 2-3 year deal it means drafting Bamba was a mistake.

Not necessarily.

If they were to resign Vucevic to a 2 year deal, Bamba would be all of 22 years old when that contract expired and still on his own rookie deal.

I like Mo's potential, but I haven't seen anything at all that would lead me to believe he's ready for more minutes than he's getting right now (15-20 per night against backups).

He's been pretty horrible from a positive impact perspective thus far.

One of the problems that I have with Bamba is that, and it may sound weird at first, he isnt making mistakes, but not in a good way, its because he doesn't do anything.

Id rather see him make some mistakes that he can learn from then stand around and do nothing just to avoid making a mistake. That is the worst possible situation imo. If he goes for a block and fouls someone, goes over a guys back for a rebound, or turns the ball over trying to make a move at the basket, even if its just the occasional mistake at least I'd know that he has a damn pulse. Right now he just looks like he jogs up and down the court trying to avoiding doing anything that'll piss Cliff off. I know Im not the only one that sees the same thing. I constantly see guys going at the basket and I expect him to pin the shot or slam it into the third row, or cuff it in the air having the "LONGEST WING SPAN IN HISTORY only to see him kinda hop a little with his arms down. GTFO with that, at least put him on the deck.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Should we sign Melo and bring him off the bench?

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Read on Twitter

[pepe1991]

Should we sign Melo and bring him off the bench?

Isn't he like done with nba or something?

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Should we sign Melo and bring him off the bench?

Isn't he like done with nba or something?

I actually don't know

[Furinkazan]

Melo cant be worse than SImmons or can he?

[AbC?]

What do you guys value Fournier at?

[woosah]

Melo cant be worse than SImmons or can he?

He can probably make some long 2's but will want you to roll out the red carpet for him while he plays no d and treat him like a superstar franchise player while he produces like a d leaguer. We good.

[PrimeThyme]

Should we sign Melo and bring him off the bench?

Isn't he like done with nba or something?

I think the NBA is done with him.

[NotACat]

What do you guys value Fournier at?

Not highly, but we probably won't take on a longer contract back for him. He's a solid starter, but in a definite slump to start the year.

[RookieStar]

Melo cant be worse than SImmons or can he?

At least Simmons constantly and immediately moves. With Melo, once he gets the ball all motion stops. Itl takr at least 10 seconds before ge settles for a long fadeaway 2.

Meanwhile Vuc DJ Fourney AG are just watching him doing his thing knowing they wont get the pass cuz no one doubles on Melo anymore

[NavalAviator94]

Read on Twitter

Article Excerpt:
"The Warriors would rather live with this shot than double the post and open up space for a cutter to zip by—the only center who averages more potential assists (passes that would tally as an assist if the shot went in) is Jokic, who’s already the best passing big man of his generation—but a poison must be picked.

While the blend of three-point shooting and low-post craftsmanship helps make Vucevic a valuable commodity, a significant slice of his value has shockingly materialized on defense. Generally speaking, Magic head coach Steve Clifford wants to funnel ball handlers into the paint, towards dropping bigs who cement themselves near the basket. At the rim, opponents are shooting 56.6 percent when Vucevic is the closest defender to their shot. That number, along with the attempts faced, neighbors respectable shot blockers like Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, and Myles Turner."



Nikola Vucevic is the Nikola Jokic of the East. Or the closest thing you're gonna get to it.

Imagine if Vuc had the shooters and finishers that Denver has.


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[drsd]

Should we sign Melo and bring him off the bench?

Anthony can no longer play defense in the NBA. He is going to China.

[drsd]

What do you guys value Fournier at?

A competent PG.


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