GT: Cavaliers vs Nets - Monday, 12/3/18, 7:30pm

[TheNetsFan]

I would pay RHJ MLE range money just to be a hustle/defensive player off the bench. It's not like he can't play. But he hasn't improved and frankly, Kurucs plays PF better than he does.

I think that the Nets will draft BPA.

MLE range money for RHJ? I hope not. I'm thinking no more than half of that.

Isn't MLE range like 5 to 8 per? I don't think that's a lot at all for a guy who we know can help the team in a rotational role. We could have used him out there last night on Burks as opposed to Crabbe on that last defensive possession.

Lets remember...Joe Harris gave this team a massive discount so we can't look at it from that perspective. 5-8 for a reserve forward isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

The full MLE will be over $9mil next year. In my opinion he should be a sub $5mil player. He's a nice hustle guy, but there are too many flaws in his game, and he's not a system fit.

[Karate Diop]

This idiot...

Read on Twitter

Then deletes the tweet about not making any progress in four years.

Someone on the Nets brass must have **** ed this man's wife. He is such a bitch its not even funny.

What I don't get is that if the Nets were winning media idiots like Bondy would be saying "loLz look at these fools they're winning games instead of tanking!1!" but if the Nets are losing idiots like Bondy say "lolZ look at these fools they not winning!1!"

Most sports media is garbage because nobody sticks to their "takes" it's constant flip-flopping - no consistency and very little thought is put into what it is written.

[TheNetsFan]

It seems like ages since I last saw a game. It's annoying to be so far behind most fans who undoubtedly have a much better feel for this year's team than I do. Ah well.

This was probably the best look I've had at Kuruks so far, and wow, is he impressive. He seems so mobile and active for someone that long. That last end-to-end drive / finger roll was some nice Giannis stuff.

DLo gets a lot of flak for not being "athletic," but games like this show me that he has serious athleticism, being able to make a variety of acrobatic shots and that fade-away bank shot near the end. I think it's time to be more accurate and say something more like 'DLo isn't explosive for a PG' and leave it at that. Clearly, he's plenty athletic.

I keep seeing these articles and reading comments about how this season is semi-ruined because of the loss of Caris, but that's a seriously weird narrative to me. It's not like Caris was in the Harden role, with a perfectly constructed team around him. He's just one of the few bright spots who was playing like a consistent all-star for a few weeks, for the first time ever. But it's still the Nets, a team under development and in need of more talent. People can be weird, but sometimes sports fans are the weirdest of all. :S

People in this fanbase like to fantasize that Caris LeVert is some kind of superman who would be preventing all of these losses. Would we be better with him out there? Without question. Would we not be losing right now with him out there? That's highly questionable.

LeVert isn't going to stop us from getting killed by opposing bigs.

LeVert isn't going to prevent the team from shooting sub 40% from the floor.

LeVert isn't going to be locking down the opponent's perimeter guys when the game is on the line.

The narrative is silly and is a clear romanticizing of his first 13 games. The same crap that was happening now was happening when LeVert was on the floor too, its just getting worse. The vets outside of Davis and Napier really don't give us anything. Allen Crabbe has been trash. RHJ has been trash. D'Angelo Russell is inconsistent. Spencer Dinwiddie has been stellar but his decision making late in games has come into question. Jarrett Allen is young and prone to mistakes defensively. LeVert's not changing any of this.

But no, lets start getting angry, call for Kenny's head because a bottom 5 roster loses games, call for everyone to be traded (FOR WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU GETTING IN RETURN FOR PLAYERS YOU WANT TO TOSS IN THE GARBAGE? Pure silliness), etc etc. Yet in the same breath people still say this stuff, see this team lose and say "well when we sign Kawhi or KD in the summer...". This fanbase has been delusional from day 1 about all of this stuff this season. This is a rebuilding team in an evaluation period who for the first time in years has control of their draft picks. That's the reality. The fact that the Nets play these games down to the wire are a testament to the coach and the GM who has built a culture of accountability and hard work. We just need more talent. Period.

Given the we've been competitive in many of these games, LeVert doesn't have to be Superman to make a big difference. He just needs to be significantly better than Crabbe.

[gigantes]

Given the we've been competitive in many of these games, LeVert doesn't have to be Superman to make a big difference. He just needs to be significantly better than Crabbe.

But even with LeVert, the Nets were a team struggling to be .500, with most games being a wild ride. That's a big difference emotionally and win-wise, but not a big difference in terms of the real goals of the team. Even somewhat detrimental.

IMO too many fans are looking at this from the emotional side of things, and creating a buzz about firing Atkinson that might do real harm. Consciously or unconsciously, you don't want the players being affected by that kind of negative energy in the building. But of course hopefully they won't be, because they have first hand experience, and they seem to love Kenny. So moot point, hopefully.

[iamworthy]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[TheNetsFan]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Was just about to post this. In terms of differential, Allen is #1, DLo is #2. Then LeVert, Harris, Dinwiddie & Davis are all bunched up slightly positive. Everybody else is negative.

[gigantes]

Outside of the obvious (Crabbe) and the inconsequential (Dudley), RHJ and DMC are the two worst players on the team so far. :/

[MGrand15]

It seems like ages since I last saw a game. It's annoying to be so far behind most fans who undoubtedly have a much better feel for this year's team than I do. Ah well.

This was probably the best look I've had at Kuruks so far, and wow, is he impressive. He seems so mobile and active for someone that long. That last end-to-end drive / finger roll was some nice Giannis stuff.

DLo gets a lot of flak for not being "athletic," but games like this show me that he has serious athleticism, being able to make a variety of acrobatic shots and that fade-away bank shot near the end. I think it's time to be more accurate and say something more like 'DLo isn't explosive for a PG' and leave it at that. Clearly, he's plenty athletic.

I keep seeing these articles and reading comments about how this season is semi-ruined because of the loss of Caris, but that's a seriously weird narrative to me. It's not like Caris was in the Harden role, with a perfectly constructed team around him. He's just one of the few bright spots who was playing like a consistent all-star for a few weeks, for the first time ever. But it's still the Nets, a team under development and in need of more talent. People can be weird, but sometimes sports fans are the weirdest of all. :S

Caris LeVert is definitely some kind of superman who would be preventing all of these losses. Would we be better with him out there? Without question. Would we not be losing right now with him out there? Absolutely.

Period.

100% agree with this powerful post.

[MrDollarBills]

All of this matches the eyeball test.

-Jarrett Allen is the best overall player on the team. No surprise here. He's still got a ways to go physically and experience wise. Richard Jefferson made a good point about him learning to pick and choose his spots when it comes to shot blocking. You can't just go after everything.

-Ed Davis has been nothing short of reliable. I hope the Nets retain him next season.

-Russell, Harris and LeVert are right about what you'd think they would be. Their defense isn't really that good but they have been decent to solid offensively. Not surprisingly, you lose two of those 3 and the team's offense goes into the gutter.

-RHJ and Carroll have been awful on offense and their defense has not been that good.

-Dudley is right where you'd figure he'd be. Absolutely useless, but not to the point where he harms you on either end.

-Crabbe is just abysmal. As much as we can talk about Dudley, Crabbe is literally useless.

-Dinwiddie hasn't played a lick of defense for the last three seasons but for some reason everyone barks about Russell's defense. Russell's defense is the last of this team's concerns. Still, can't really complain too much because Dinwiddie has been a stud efficiency wise.

Hopefully when we get the next update of this chart Kurucs' head is further to the right.

[MrDollarBills]

It seems like ages since I last saw a game. It's annoying to be so far behind most fans who undoubtedly have a much better feel for this year's team than I do. Ah well.

This was probably the best look I've had at Kuruks so far, and wow, is he impressive. He seems so mobile and active for someone that long. That last end-to-end drive / finger roll was some nice Giannis stuff.

DLo gets a lot of flak for not being "athletic," but games like this show me that he has serious athleticism, being able to make a variety of acrobatic shots and that fade-away bank shot near the end. I think it's time to be more accurate and say something more like 'DLo isn't explosive for a PG' and leave it at that. Clearly, he's plenty athletic.

I keep seeing these articles and reading comments about how this season is semi-ruined because of the loss of Caris, but that's a seriously weird narrative to me. It's not like Caris was in the Harden role, with a perfectly constructed team around him. He's just one of the few bright spots who was playing like a consistent all-star for a few weeks, for the first time ever. But it's still the Nets, a team under development and in need of more talent. People can be weird, but sometimes sports fans are the weirdest of all. :S

Caris LeVert is definitely some kind of superman who would be preventing all of these losses. Would we be better with him out there? Without question. Would we not be losing right now with him out there? Absolutely.

Period.

100% agree with this powerful post.

I should sue you for this.

In all seriousness though, I think the expectations are a bit high. Would we be in a 7 game free fall w/ LeVert? Most likely not. Would we still be taking losses? Undoubtedly. This isn't a one man fix all problem.

[MGrand15]

Caris LeVert is definitely some kind of superman who would be preventing all of these losses. Would we be better with him out there? Without question. Would we not be losing right now with him out there? Absolutely.

Period.

100% agree with this powerful post.

I should sue you for this.

In all seriousness though, I think the expectations are a bit high. Would we be in a 7 game free fall w/ LeVert? Most likely not. Would we still be taking losses? Undoubtedly. This isn't a one man fix all problem.

I think it's fair to criticize the team and the coaching staff when they come out lifeless vs the Cavs at home. Without Kurocs, this is a 10 point, comfortable loss at home to a terrible team.

Outside of that, we've had a bunch of close games (predictably) not go our way. Can't be mad at the team for that. That's what young bad teams do. Bad teams can't afford to lose their best player. I haven't been upset at one loss since Caris went out.

LeVert is good but more than anything, his energy and effort is contagious. It feels like the team is missing that a lot.

[SpeedyG]

I'm not sure if Caris would have made a difference, but I do think we win this one with him. The margin for error has been so close that assuming he keeps up his play, I think we win at least 3 of the 7 we've dropped in this stretch. The problem has really compounded this season: Crabbe and Rondae took a massive DUMP compared to their levels last season. During this losing streak, Joe had gotten cold from downtown, and then eventually hurt last two games. With Crabbe, Dudley, DMC (our three "best" shooters percentage wise heading in, other than Napier and Harris) struggling, we really don't have a lot of three point shooting in any combination of our lineups. And without Caris, we only have Spencer who really drives to the hoop and gets to the line.

Dudley, DMC, Rondae really can't create off the dribble. Even Napier is having to force the issue at times when he's on the floor because everyone just kind of stands around in the perimeter. I think defenses are starting to catch on too with the lack of ball handling that this team has, especially when we run 1-5 pnrs. Force the PG (be it napier, russell or dinwiddie) to give up the ball, and nobody has any idea what to do with it other than to give it back to the PG with 10 secs left to create.

I think Joe coming back, if he finds his rhythm, will help. DMC has been up and down. Hopefully, Rodi gets more minutes as his energy is something this team has badly needed most of our losses. He'll make mistakes, but he kind of sets the tone and forces everyone to go at his pace when he's on the floor.

But we went into this season really expecting, not big, but at least a step up from Crabbe and Rondae. Without those two's contributions from last season, it's pretty tough to really be consistent when our best passer is inconsistent himself, our best shooter has been hurt (or was in a funk), and our best player won't be back until February probably.

Even Rodi getting minutes won't be a "fix" unless these vets get their head out of their butts and start balling. We don't even have to "tank"...its going to happen organically the way this thing is going.

And holy crap, does anyone remember Kenny's rookie season? I thought he did a great job that 1st year drawing plays off timeouts, but last season and this one...it really just hasn't worked and I can't quite put my finger on it. Did we lose someone in our staff? I vaguely recall one of the assistants leaving (i know Prunty left, but I can't recall when, and I'm not even sure he was in Kenny's staff at all). What about the guy we brought from Denver?

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not sure if Caris would have made a difference, but I do think we win this one with him. The margin for error has been so close that assuming he keeps up his play, I think we win at least 3 of the 7 we've dropped in this stretch. The problem has really compounded this season: Crabbe and Rondae took a massive DUMP compared to their levels last season. During this losing streak, Joe had gotten cold from downtown, and then eventually hurt last two games. With Crabbe, Dudley, DMC (our three "best" shooters percentage wise heading in, other than Napier and Harris) struggling, we really don't have a lot of three point shooting in any combination of our lineups. And without Caris, we only have Spencer who really drives to the hoop and gets to the line.

Dudley, DMC, Rondae really can't create off the dribble. Even Napier is having to force the issue at times when he's on the floor because everyone just kind of stands around in the perimeter. I think defenses are starting to catch on too with the lack of ball handling that this team has, especially when we run 1-5 pnrs. Force the PG (be it napier, russell or dinwiddie) to give up the ball, and nobody has any idea what to do with it other than to give it back to the PG with 10 secs left to create.

I think Joe coming back, if he finds his rhythm, will help. DMC has been up and down. Hopefully, Rodi gets more minutes as his energy is something this team has badly needed most of our losses. He'll make mistakes, but he kind of sets the tone and forces everyone to go at his pace when he's on the floor.

But we went into this season really expecting, not big, but at least a step up from Crabbe and Rondae. Without those two's contributions from last season, it's pretty tough to really be consistent when our best passer is inconsistent himself, our best shooter has been hurt (or was in a funk), and our best player won't be back until February probably.

Even Rodi getting minutes won't be a "fix" unless these vets get their head out of their butts and start balling. We don't even have to "tank"...its going to happen organically the way this thing is going.

And holy crap, does anyone remember Kenny's rookie season? I thought he did a great job that 1st year drawing plays off timeouts, but last season and this one...it really just hasn't worked and I can't quite put my finger on it. Did we lose someone in our staff? I vaguely recall one of the assistants leaving (i know Prunty left, but I can't recall when, and I'm not even sure he was in Kenny's staff at all). What about the guy we brought from Denver?

I think you nailed it here. The expectation was for Rondae and Crabbe to not only carry over from their 17-18 campaign but also improve upon the areas where they were lacking.

Neither of them have improved.

[steady]

I'm not sure if Caris would have made a difference, but I do think we win this one with him. The margin for error has been so close that assuming he keeps up his play, I think we win at least 3 of the 7 we've dropped in this stretch. The problem has really compounded this season: Crabbe and Rondae took a massive DUMP compared to their levels last season. During this losing streak, Joe had gotten cold from downtown, and then eventually hurt last two games. With Crabbe, Dudley, DMC (our three "best" shooters percentage wise heading in, other than Napier and Harris) struggling, we really don't have a lot of three point shooting in any combination of our lineups. And without Caris, we only have Spencer who really drives to the hoop and gets to the line.

Dudley, DMC, Rondae really can't create off the dribble. Even Napier is having to force the issue at times when he's on the floor because everyone just kind of stands around in the perimeter. I think defenses are starting to catch on too with the lack of ball handling that this team has, especially when we run 1-5 pnrs. Force the PG (be it napier, russell or dinwiddie) to give up the ball, and nobody has any idea what to do with it other than to give it back to the PG with 10 secs left to create.

I think Joe coming back, if he finds his rhythm, will help. DMC has been up and down. Hopefully, Rodi gets more minutes as his energy is something this team has badly needed most of our losses. He'll make mistakes, but he kind of sets the tone and forces everyone to go at his pace when he's on the floor.

But we went into this season really expecting, not big, but at least a step up from Crabbe and Rondae. Without those two's contributions from last season, it's pretty tough to really be consistent when our best passer is inconsistent himself, our best shooter has been hurt (or was in a funk), and our best player won't be back until February probably.

Even Rodi getting minutes won't be a "fix" unless these vets get their head out of their butts and start balling. We don't even have to "tank"...its going to happen organically the way this thing is going.

And holy crap, does anyone remember Kenny's rookie season? I thought he did a great job that 1st year drawing plays off timeouts, but last season and this one...it really just hasn't worked and I can't quite put my finger on it. Did we lose someone in our staff? I vaguely recall one of the assistants leaving (i know Prunty left, but I can't recall when, and I'm not even sure he was in Kenny's staff at all). What about the guy we brought from Denver?

I think you nailed it here. The expectation was for Rondae and Crabbe to not only carry over from their 17-18 campaign but also improve upon the areas where they were lacking.

Neither of them have improved.

Yes

last year the three players who got the most PT were RHJ, DMC and AC. For all three to be under performing --and for LeVert to be out -- fundamentally changes what we can expect from the team.

Joe H's improvement, as well as DLo's, and Spencer continuing to show last year was not a fluke and Kurucs being a welcome surprise, is not enough

---

Prok -- i have to admit you were right about the Joe Harris and Allen Crabbe comparison. I always loved Harris, but never expected he would come this far (and that Crabbe would still be where he is).

[MGrand15]

And holy crap, does anyone remember Kenny's rookie season? I thought he did a great job that 1st year drawing plays off timeouts, but last season and this one...it really just hasn't worked and I can't quite put my finger on it. Did we lose someone in our staff? I vaguely recall one of the assistants leaving (i know Prunty left, but I can't recall when, and I'm not even sure he was in Kenny's staff at all). What about the guy we brought from Denver?

I would love an answer to this question. The play against Cleveland literally looked like the one option was Dinwiddie to run towards the ball and take a tough 3. We've had a ton of trouble getting the ball inbounds. Getting a decent shot up has been very very rare. He used to be money at these plays and the team was A LOT worse.