Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[OrlandoNed]

If we traded to #4 with Memphis, we would've taken Bamba there. lol.

That's the way WeHam rolls.

If they were going to stay with a big, Bamba over JJJ would have been a bad pick

Literally just valuing length over everything at that point

I felt very good about JJJ coming into the NBA, his measurables were great and his advanced metrics were insane. People would have been much more hyped on him leading up to the season if people hadn't poopoo'd him for his odd shooting motion and got drafted by Memphis. JJJ would of been much better suited for the double big lineup that Cliff tried with Bamba and Vuc earlier this year.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Your technically correct. Which is why I said before the draft when that Atl/Dal trade leaked that the right play was to call The Grizz and move to 4. Whatever is takes to move you do it. I would gladly take the corpse of Chandler Parsons of that's what it took. Then the pressure is on ATL with how much do they love Trae Young. If they love him then just take him at 3 and Doncic falls right in our hands at 4. If they just play it safe and take Doncic then we take Young. Leaving out of the draft without Trae or Luka was a absolute failure. Either one of those guys is exactly what we needed. When your talking about franchise players you do whatever it takes to get them.

and they may have tried but overall I knew we w rent getting a franchise player standing pat at 6.

You think they tried? I don't. They havn't done anything but sit on their hands since being here. Would Memphis have turned down Evan, Simmons, #6 and the OKC pick for Parsons and #4? If they did I woulda added on a protected 19 pick. No way they turn that down when you also consider there's a good chance they still get JJJ at 6. What's more likely a FO that has done nothing but sit on their hands got ballsy and made a move like this and it was turned down? Or they were smacking high fives when they relised the long armed player was gonna be available?

I don't know either way. I was just acknowledgeding the possibility. I do agree that they lean towards measurables rather than skill and to me thats dangerous.

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[Knightro]

I didn't ignore it. Its very possible JJJ is still there at 6. Its possible they didn't want to move down.. but everyone has a price. JJJ has been very good I agree. I think Im gonna be wrong about him as I wasn;t high on him at all.

What Im saying is that predicated deal could be broken up if you either make the Grizz trade before the draft or leak it out the the deal is in the works. If ATL KNOWS the deal is broken up they will have to ponder if they would rather just take Young since its who they clearly like anyway. Either way we are good cause we walk out of the draft with Doncic or Young which is better then what ended up happening.

I can't make this any more clear.

There is no Hawks/Mavericks trade if Trae Young is not on the board at 5. If Memphis took Young at 4 or if someone like Orlando traded up to 4 and took Young, Atlanta would have simply kept Doncic.

The only thing that "leaking" or even straight up negotiating a Grizzlies/Magic deal for the 4th pick would do is cause is Atlanta to simply pick Doncic at 3 and be done with it.

The Hawks had to make their decision on who they're going to pick *before* Memphis had to make their decision.

The ONLY option for Atlanta was to take Luka Doncic at 3.

If Trae Young made it to 5, they had a deal lined up. If he didn't make it to 5, they were keeping Doncic. It's not that difficult.

[PrimeThyme]

To everyone suggesting that the Magic should/could have traded up to 4 with Memphis to throw a wrench in the Hawks/Mavs deal is also pretty much ignoring the possibility of Memphis valuing Jaren Jackson Jr. to the point where they simply didn't want to move down too.

JJJ has been awesome btw.

On top of that... the other thing that everyone is ignoring is that the Hawks/Mavericks deal WAS ENTIRELY PREDICATED ON TRAE BEING THERE AT 5. If Memphis had randomly taken Trae at 4 or if someone like Orlando had traded up to 4 to take Trae, the Hawks would have simply kept Doncic and that would have been the end of it.

It's really easy to say something COULD have happened without knowing the full details of how it ended up happening.

We could have beat Dallas's offer and moved up to 3. Young would have 100% been there at 6 in my opinion. Memphis would have still taken JJJ at 4 since he was BPA and they already had Conley, and by all accounts, Dallas was very high on Bamba and had just taken a PG in the lottery the year before so Young made zero sense for them. Young would have still been there at 6 which means Atlanta if we beat Dallas's offer would have still been inclined to trade with us to move down and take Young.

[Def Swami]

Bamba was still the best pick for the Magic. It's unfortunate that the best pick happened to be a player who plays a position and role that the Magic don't really need. It was one of the reasons I was all the way on the Trae Young bandwagon. I think both Young and Bamba are going to be huge works in progress, but Young at least served a role that could have contributed to the Magic winning some games too. I still think Bamba was the best player on the board when the Magic picked. Once again, the Magic just weren't in position to get one of the transcendent wing players in the draft. It simply wasn't an option.

I'm still very high on Bamba. He'll need to spend all off-season in the weight room. And I wish he'd play with more energy on defense. He wants to be a Porzingis-like unicorn, and I think he feeds off his offensive production. But I wish he would just play with consistent energy on the defensive end, like Isaac, regardless of how many shots are falling or not.

[Knightro]

We could have beat Dallas's offer and moved up to 3. Young would have 100% been there at 6 in my opinion. Memphis would have still taken JJJ at 4 since he was BPA and they already had Conley, and by all accounts, Dallas was very high on Bamba and had just taken a PG in the lottery the year before so Young made zero sense for them. Young would have still been there at 6 which means Atlanta if we beat Dallas's offer would have still been inclined to trade with us to move down and take Young.

Obviously, that wasn't a risk Atlanta was willing to take.

The Hawks quite clearly wanted to come out of this draft with one of two outcomes.

1. Trae Young and a 2019 1st round pick.
2. Luka Doncic

Trading back to 6 doesn't ensure either one of those things.

[IllMagic04]

I didn't ignore it. Its very possible JJJ is still there at 6. Its possible they didn't want to move down.. but everyone has a price. JJJ has been very good I agree. I think Im gonna be wrong about him as I wasn;t high on him at all.

What Im saying is that predicated deal could be broken up if you either make the Grizz trade before the draft or leak it out the the deal is in the works. If ATL KNOWS the deal is broken up they will have to ponder if they would rather just take Young since its who they clearly like anyway. Either way we are good cause we walk out of the draft with Doncic or Young which is better then what ended up happening.

I can't make this any more clear.

There is no Hawks/Mavericks trade if Trae Young is not on the board at 5. If Memphis took Young at 4 or if someone like Orlando traded up to 4 and took Young, Atlanta would have simply kept Doncic.

The only thing that "leaking" or even straight up negotiating a Grizzlies/Magic deal for the 4th pick would do is cause is Atlanta to simply pick Doncic at 3 and be done with it.

The Hawks had to make their decision on who they're going to pick *before* Memphis had to make their decision.

The ONLY option for Atlanta was to take Luka Doncic at 3.

If Trae Young made it to 5, they had a deal lined up. If he didn't make it to 5, they were keeping Doncic. It's not that difficult.

I hear you. Your crystal clear. Your not thinking outside the box. Why didn;t they just take Doncic and be done with it regardless? Its cause they clearly liked Young alot too. They saw a opportunity to get the guy they wanted in Young and extra assets. So if there hand is forced we don't know if they would take Young since they loved him. Thats all Im saying. I acknowledged that they probably just take Luka but we don't know that for sure. If they just take Luka then we take Young. Either way its a great result.

[PrimeThyme]

I’m happy with the Bamba pick, but like I felt on draft night, there will always be that part of me that wishes we attached multiple firsts to a deal and moved up for Doncic. He is and always has been a generational type talent imo. If our plan was to hire Clifford and compete for the playoffs this year anyways moving up for Doncic would have just made even more sense as he would have helped us win now and in the future and those future picks we would have given up wouldn’t have been as valuable.

Bamba will hopefully help in the future but that’s a long way away from happening imo and the best player on our team plays his position. I’m not regretting us drafting Bamba, but I’d be lying if I said it’s not going to bother me just a little seeing Doncic tear it up in Dallas knowing that he could have been ours.

This is why I’m not as happy about the pick if Vuc sticks around for another 2-3 years. This organization has an identity crisis between timeframes, what they consider is a “competitive” roster and what “rebuilding” means.

I was fine with Bamba in a vacuum, but this FO has put themselves in a particularly bad situation IMO because of their moves or lack thereof come this deadline.

They are either

1. Going to get less for Vuc on a half a season expiring deal after he takes Orlando out of lottery range.

2. He’s going to walk after he doesn’t agree to a 1-2 year deal

3. They resign him for ridiculous money, and multiple seasons, to play 30+ mpg over the #6 pick in last year’s draft. While making Orlando competitive enough for a playoff appearance, but still not good enough to acquire real talent.

Pick your poison.

I see your point. For me, I can still see why they took BPA at 6. I'm not really under the belief that Bamba sitting 2-3 years under Vuc makes Bamba a bad pick. I don't think he is ready, and I don't see him being ready for at the very least another 2-3 years. If we signed Vuc to a 2-3 year deal and traded him halfway through the deal or at the end of it when we felt Bamba was ready I don't see the harm in that.

I do see your point about them being stuck in between timeframes though. I'm at the point where I feel like they NEED to make a move for a PG. Its clear as day that they have no interest in tanking or the lottery this year so if thats the case its time for them to stop sitting on their hands and they need to make a move for a PG that is going to ensure that we have a spot in the playoffs this year. If we finish as a 9th or 10th seed this year I really feel like it will be a lost season. I still feel like that is where we most likely finish with this current roster too.

[VFX]

I’m happy with the Bamba pick, but like I felt on draft night, there will always be that part of me that wishes we attached multiple firsts to a deal and moved up for Doncic. He is and always has been a generational type talent imo. If our plan was to hire Clifford and compete for the playoffs this year anyways moving up for Doncic would have just made even more sense as he would have helped us win now and in the future and those future picks we would have given up wouldn’t have been as valuable.

Bamba will hopefully help in the future but that’s a long way away from happening imo and the best player on our team plays his position. I’m not regretting us drafting Bamba, but I’d be lying if I said it’s not going to bother me just a little seeing Doncic tear it up in Dallas knowing that he could have been ours.

This is why I’m not as happy about the pick if Vuc sticks around for another 2-3 years. This organization has an identity crisis between timeframes, what they consider is a “competitive” roster and what “rebuilding” means.

I was fine with Bamba in a vacuum, but this FO has put themselves in a particularly bad situation IMO because of their moves or lack thereof come this deadline.

They are either

1. Going to get less for Vuc on a half a season expiring deal after he takes Orlando out of lottery range.

2. He’s going to walk after he doesn’t agree to a 1-2 year deal

3. They resign him for ridiculous money, and multiple seasons, to play 30+ mpg over the #6 pick in last year’s draft. While making Orlando competitive enough for a playoff appearance, but still not good enough to acquire real talent.

Pick your poison.

I see your point. For me, I can still see why they took BPA at 6. I'm not really under the belief that Bamba sitting 2-3 years under Vuc makes Bamba a bad pick. I don't think he is ready, and I don't see him being ready for at the very least another 2-3 years. If we signed Vuc to a 2-3 year deal and traded him halfway through the deal or at the end of it when we felt Bamba was ready I don't see the harm in that.

I do see your point about them being stuck in between timeframes though. I'm at the point where I feel like they NEED to make a move for a PG. Its clear as day that they have no interest in tanking or the lottery this year so if thats the case its time for them to stop sitting on their hands and they need to make a move for a PG that is going to ensure that we have a spot in the playoffs this year. If we finish as a 9th or 10th seed this year I really feel like it will be a lost season. I still feel like that is where we most likely finish with this current roster too.

I just don’t really believe drafting a #6 pick on a “maybe” playoff team to play 12-15mpg is the best use of assets. They should have traded up, back, or taken someone else. BPA is no longer BPA if the players don’t have the opportunity to be the best version of themselves. Sitting behind Vuc for 2-3 years isn’t going to accomplish that for Bamba. For what? So people feel great about a short playoff run that will ultimately lead to nothing?

[IllMagic04]

Should we maybe consider giving Bamba some minutes playing along side Vuc? I know we tried it before and it wasn't great but maybe we should try it again?

[Knightro]

:lol: I hear you. Your crystal clear. Your not thinking outside the box. Why didn;t they just take Doncic and be done with it regardless? Its cause they clearly liked Young alot too. They saw a opportunity to get the guy they wanted in Young and extra assets. So if there hand is forced we don't know if they would take Young since they loved him. Thats all Im saying. I acknowledged that they probably just take Luka but we don't know that for sure. If they just take Luka then we take Young. Either way its a great result.

The only thing about that is the draft order is locked on the afternoon of the draft. It's not like the NFL where you can actually trade picks in real time. You have to draft players and then trade their rights afterwards.

So Atlanta had to make their decision not knowing what was going to happen behind them.

With that being the case, the Hawks only had 1 choice and that was to pick Doncic at 3.

If it materialized where Young was available at 5, they'd make the swap, but make no mistake the Hawks were comfortable coming out of that draft with Luka Doncic at the 3rd overall pick.

They had to be too because they risked Memphis at 4 or someone else moving into the 4th spot and blowing up the deal.

[IllMagic04]

:lol: I hear you. Your crystal clear. Your not thinking outside the box. Why didn;t they just take Doncic and be done with it regardless? Its cause they clearly liked Young alot too. They saw a opportunity to get the guy they wanted in Young and extra assets. So if there hand is forced we don't know if they would take Young since they loved him. Thats all Im saying. I acknowledged that they probably just take Luka but we don't know that for sure. If they just take Luka then we take Young. Either way its a great result.

The only thing about that is the draft order is locked on the afternoon of the draft. It's not like the NFL where you can actually trade picks in real time. You have to draft players and then trade their rights afterwards.

So Atlanta had to make their decision not knowing what was going to happen behind them.

With that being the case, the Hawks only had 1 choice and that was to pick Doncic at 3.

If it materialized where Young was available at 5, they'd make the swap, but make no mistake the Hawks were comfortable coming out of that draft with Luka Doncic at the 3rd overall pick.

They had to be too because they risked Memphis at 4 or someone else moving into the 4th spot and blowing up the deal.

My only question is if we leaked or pretty much finalized the trade with the Griz and they KNEW that their trade with Dal was broken up what do they do? Thats the question I woulda loved to have known.

[EAS Law]

We are currently playing as well as we have in about 6 years and look to be improving each game, we are sitting in the playoff hunt, have a watchable core of guys, and the convo here is how we effed up the draft because someone drafted at a higher spot than Bamba is currently playing well.

Amazing.

[VFX]

We are currently playing as well as we have in about 6 years and look to be improving each game, we are sitting in the playoff hunt, have a watchable core of guys, and the convo here is how we effed up the draft because someone drafted at a higher spot than Bamba is currently playing well.

Amazing.

Some people actually care about the future of this team and not only the instant gratification feel good story that is this season.

[OrlandoNed]

We are currently playing as well as we have in about 6 years and look to be improving each game, we are sitting in the playoff hunt, have a watchable core of guys, and the convo here is how we effed up the draft because someone drafted at a higher spot than Bamba is currently playing well.

Amazing.

Some people actually care about the future of this team and not only the instant gratification feel good story that is this season.

I'm riding shotgun on the Magic bus for the long haul, I have more than enough patience to wait until we reach the promised land. I can handle taking as many individual steps backwards to take twice that many steps forward. No half measures.

[NavalAviator94]

Article Excerpt:
"The Warriors would rather live with this shot than double the post and open up space for a cutter to zip by—the only center who averages more potential assists (passes that would tally as an assist if the shot went in) is Jokic, who’s already the best passing big man of his generation—but a poison must be picked.

While the blend of three-point shooting and low-post craftsmanship helps make Vucevic a valuable commodity, a significant slice of his value has shockingly materialized on defense. Generally speaking, Magic head coach Steve Clifford wants to funnel ball handlers into the paint, towards dropping bigs who cement themselves near the basket. At the rim, opponents are shooting 56.6 percent when Vucevic is the closest defender to their shot. That number, along with the attempts faced, neighbors respectable shot blockers like Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, and Myles Turner."



Nikola Vucevic is the Nikola Jokic of the East. Or the closest thing you're gonna get to it.

Imagine if Vuc had the shooters and finishers that Denver has.


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I'm all for giving Vuc praise for his season, but let's not compare his passing to Jokic. Vuc is a good passer. Jokic is an out of this world passer.

For sure, but I'm not comparing Vuc to Jokic in the literal sense. Jokic is definitely a level above on passing but not as far as you think. I've watched almost every game and can't count how many passes Vuc has made to a player that's missed a wide open shot, bumbled the ball or even more frustratingly was unable to finish. My point really was that Vuc would look even better with quality players around him.

[drsd]

are we considering moving pick for actual talent?
I don't think Magic are lottery team this year, and even if they are, that pick won't be as valuable/high.

Spencer Dinwiddie can only max for a starting deal at 10M a year. If he is tradeable immediately upon extension, then Augustin and the Magic first next year for him would be an interesting consideration.


..

[pepe1991]

Were Hawks that high on Young or that low on Doncic?
It's not like they needed PG, they needed everything.
About tanking, this is first time in years where u don't hate myself for investing free time in this team. Hell i even figured winning makes me much less grumpy here

[pepe1991]

We are currently playing as well as we have in about 6 years and look to be improving each game, we are sitting in the playoff hunt, have a watchable core of guys, and the convo here is how we effed up the draft because someone drafted at a higher spot than Bamba is currently playing well.

Amazing.

Some people actually care about the future of this team and not only the instant gratification feel good story that is this season.

If Bamba is good right now and productive like Jackson,Doncic or Ayton team would probably move Vučević fast.
But that's not the case.

I agree that drafting him to be backup isn't great usage of assets but lot of teams use same strategy
Ainge over 2 years drafted SF, signed SF on max contract and drafted another SF yet nobody is busting his a** about it.

[VFX]

We are currently playing as well as we have in about 6 years and look to be improving each game, we are sitting in the playoff hunt, have a watchable core of guys, and the convo here is how we effed up the draft because someone drafted at a higher spot than Bamba is currently playing well.

Amazing.

Some people actually care about the future of this team and not only the instant gratification feel good story that is this season.

If Bamba is good right now and productive like Jackson,Doncic or Ayton team would probably move Vučević fast.
But that's not the case.

I agree that drafting him to be backup isn't great usage of assets but lot of teams use same strategy
Ainge over 2 years drafted SF, signed SF on max contract and drafted another SF yet nobody is busting his a** about it.

Because the team drafting those players are good enough to not rely on their draft prospects. Boston was going to be good with Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, etc. without continually drafting top lottery talent. Also, you can never have enough versatile dynamic wings.