Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[bwgood77]

We wouldn't be in a much better spot if we had Luka now. The assumption was that if we took Luka, we would've taken or signed a rim protector to make the team more balanced. If we had taken Luka but didn't add a rim protector, we would still have the same defensive issues and likely still have issues getting high % buckets

The assumption with Ayton is that we would've taken (SGA) or signed a PG. We haven't done that. No matter who we took, that one player alone wasn't going to make us competitive.

Well I do think Luka's competitive fire would have been contagious, and if we played a lineup of Booker/Bridges/Warren/Doncic/Robinson or any decent defensive C we could get in FA (they are pretty cheap) I think we'd probably be more competitive.

But the biggest reason we are losing right now is total lack of depth, no real starting PG, and lack of interior defense...and of course the last few games missing 1 or 2 of our best scorers.

We should start Melton now just for defensive purposes. Melton/Bridges/Ariza/Warren (hopefully he's back)/Holmes would be a solid defensive team. Of course we will start Ayton, but if a few players get to the rim, Igor can yank him quickly again, but Ayton lost interest tonight. He basically said it in his interview.

I just hope Ayton, at some point, really starts to learn and get better at defense, even if it's not with a lot of fire like a KG, and more like a Tim Duncan guy. Obviously you can't expect him to be as good as those guys at defense, but he should study them...both of them.

[lilfishi22]

We wouldn't be in a much better spot if we had Luka now. The assumption was that if we took Luka, we would've taken or signed a rim protector to make the team more balanced. If we had taken Luka but didn't add a rim protector, we would still have the same defensive issues and likely still have issues getting high % buckets

The assumption with Ayton is that we would've taken (SGA) or signed a PG. We haven't done that. No matter who we took, that one player alone wasn't going to make us competitive.

Well I do think Luka's competitive fire would have been contagious, and if we played a lineup of Booker/Bridges/Warren/Doncic/Robinson or any decent defensive C we could get in FA (they are pretty cheap) I think we'd probably be more competitive.

But the biggest reason we are losing right now is total lack of depth, no real starting PG, and lack of interior defense...and of course the last few games missing 1 or 2 of our best scorers.

We should start Melton now just for defensive purposes. Melton/Bridges/Ariza/Warren (hopefully he's back)/Holmes would be a solid defensive team. Of course we will start Ayton, but if a few players get to the rim, Igor can yank him quickly again, but Ayton lost interest tonight. He basically said it in his interview.

I just hope Ayton, at some point, really starts to learn and get better at defense, even if it's not with a lot of fire like a KG, and more like a Tim Duncan guy. Obviously you can't expect him to be as good as those guys at defense, but he should study them...both of them.

He might add 2 maybe 3 wins without a competent rim protector. We're not much better (far from where the Mavs are) if we just had Luka instead of Ayton. But when you start throwing in assumptions like adding a competent rim protector next to Luka then you have to do a similar thing with Ayton by adding a competent PG who can defend and get Ayton the ball. I think we're probably close to .500 if we had Luka and a rim runner but I think we're probably not far behind with Ayton and a competent PG either.

I agree, the biggest reason is certainly the lack of depth and also just the total lack of balance in the roster. We have no PG depth whatsoever and a million wings.

[bwgood77]

We wouldn't be in a much better spot if we had Luka now. The assumption was that if we took Luka, we would've taken or signed a rim protector to make the team more balanced. If we had taken Luka but didn't add a rim protector, we would still have the same defensive issues and likely still have issues getting high % buckets

The assumption with Ayton is that we would've taken (SGA) or signed a PG. We haven't done that. No matter who we took, that one player alone wasn't going to make us competitive.

Well I do think Luka's competitive fire would have been contagious, and if we played a lineup of Booker/Bridges/Warren/Doncic/Robinson or any decent defensive C we could get in FA (they are pretty cheap) I think we'd probably be more competitive.

But the biggest reason we are losing right now is total lack of depth, no real starting PG, and lack of interior defense...and of course the last few games missing 1 or 2 of our best scorers.

We should start Melton now just for defensive purposes. Melton/Bridges/Ariza/Warren (hopefully he's back)/Holmes would be a solid defensive team. Of course we will start Ayton, but if a few players get to the rim, Igor can yank him quickly again, but Ayton lost interest tonight. He basically said it in his interview.

I just hope Ayton, at some point, really starts to learn and get better at defense, even if it's not with a lot of fire like a KG, and more like a Tim Duncan guy. Obviously you can't expect him to be as good as those guys at defense, but he should study them...both of them.

He might add 2 maybe 3 wins without a competent rim protector. We're not much better (far from where the Mavs are) if we just had Luka instead of Ayton. But when you start throwing in assumptions like adding a competent rim protector next to Luka then you have to do a similar thing with Ayton by adding a competent PG who can defend and get Ayton the ball. I think we're probably close to .500 if we had Luka and a rim runner but I think we're probably not far behind with Ayton and a competent PG either.

I agree, the biggest reason is certainly the lack of depth and also just the total lack of balance in the roster. We have no PG depth whatsoever and a million wings.

Well this summer there were no PGs available really outside of trying to get someone like Tyreke but there were plenty of centers who are kind of a dime a dozen these days. I don't mind the wing depth, since we need depth, and in this day and age you play 3 wings most of the time, and Jackson hasn't really proven himself yet. But yeah, I didn't expect us to be very good this year anyway. Our bench is horrid for the most part and without Booker and Warren we really don't have any scoring options, especially when teams are all over him inside.

[Frank Lee]

thats BS fish..... you are extrapolating too far.... had we taken Doncic, we would have a very good player in the fold. Ayton looks to be a bigger project than anticipated, one that may never reach his lofty potential. You cant domino this one with an if then that scenario. Luka is nba ready and is not looking back. Ayton ? not at all. ..and what he lacks is the fundamental knowledge of the game.... along with effort. You might have to wait 2-3 years before it clicks, all the while hoping it does.

Im starting to feel bad for the guy as this could get ugly.

[DirtyDez]

McD made up his mind on Ayton the day of the lottery. Sarver wanted Doncic as reported by Ryan Russillo on his podcast. Sarver fired McD when they realized they made a mistake early in the preseason. McD never did a deep psychological dive on Ayton and deserved to be fired because of it.

[bwgood77]

McD made up his mind on Ayton the day of the lottery. Sarver wanted Doncic as reported by Ryan Russillo on his podcast. Sarver fired McD when they realized they made a mistake early in the preseason. McD never did a deep psychological dive on Ayton and deserved to be fired because of it.

When was this podcast? I imagine if Sarver watched Ayton closely at AZ, which he probably did, being an alum, would have concerns like most of us who watched him and how teams exploited him. I mean a die hard Suns fan and AZ fan and long time poster gave up on the team after the draft.

Seems a little early to make that judgement during the preseason, though I think it was the right one. I mean you could see Doncic had ice in his veins and was extremely competitive with that will to win which Ayton seemed to lack.

Ayton still has a lot of time to turn things around but that competitive nature and IQ, instincts might be tough things for someone to develop. You could argue those things you either have or you don't.

At least he scores really efficiently and rebounds well most of the time, and seems to be a pretty good passer for a C.

[DaleyBlind]

Ayton is a fraud, he has no desire to put in any effort what so ever. Dude wants to collect his check and get to that next contract.

We **** up. Again.

[DRK]

We wouldn't be in a much better spot if we had Luka now. The assumption was that if we took Luka, we would've taken or signed a rim protector to make the team more balanced. If we had taken Luka but didn't add a rim protector, we would still have the same defensive issues and likely still have issues getting high % buckets

The assumption with Ayton is that we would've taken (SGA) or signed a PG. We haven't done that. No matter who we took, that one player alone wasn't going to make us competitive.

If we took Luka, we would be starting Holmes for about 35mins a night. Theres your rim protector right there.

We most definitely would be in a better situation right now. Too early to tell about the where we would be in the future, but Luka has outplayed Ayton so far.

[Djedefre]

Re: 2018 Draft Night Discussion
Post#265 » by Djedefre » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:56 pm
I think we will regret this choice. Badly.

[Archx]

With so many Suns fans suddenly realizing Ayton's lack of energy and desire to compete, i just hope they don't watch what happened in the last few mins at DAL vs POR game. Some rookie showed incredible drive to win and skill that pushed the game over the hump to a victory with some incredible plays.

And Ayton saying no point in fighting back after you are down in the NBA, is just a slap on the face towards all of us who want Suns to win. It's just stupid to hear that and incredibly demoralizing. Makes you want to just flush the entire Suns team down the toilet, yes including the coach. Even though i liked it when Igor benched him after just 4 mins of playtime.

[Qwigglez]

You guys need to stop crying. Go jump on the Mavericks bandwagon if you guys like Luka that badly. We got Ayton. We can't change that now.

[Hesh]

This is good, actually. Everyone is pointing out his flaws and being vocal about it. He spoke about how Igor told him not to worry about what other people are saying about him. So, he's definitely paying attention to the criticism and it should light a fire under him.

Maybe it won't happen throughout the course of this season, but definitely during the off-season. He should be looking to prove people wrong.

Worst case scenario, it has the opposite effect and he regresses (Iol) but he doesn't seem like the Bender type too much.

[MrMiyagi]

I'd like to provide a bit more context to the Ayton is a terrible defender assertion.

Rim protection has definitely not been his strong suit, as evidenced by opponents FG% against him inside of 6 feet (65.5% vs. 7.4 attempts), but his overall DFG% is 48.4% vs. 17.2 attempts - to provide some context, Clint Capela's DFG% is 45.9% vs. 19.3 attempts, Anthony Davis's is 46.9% vs. 17.8 attempts, Al Horford's is 47.5% vs. 15.9 attempts, Steven Adams' is 47.6% vs. 16.2 attempts, and Rudy Gobert's is 49.8% vs. 17.4 attempts. I think most would agree that these dudes are considered to be good to great defenders, and Ayton isn't too far off in overall DFG%, and compared to his rookie peers Wendell Carter Jr.'s DFG% is 47.3% vs. 13.5 attempts and JJJ's is 46.4% vs. 10.9 attempts, which again, is behind, but not as drastically as I think most people would assume.

I'm also a little surprised by the reaction to the game tonight. We didn't have our two best scorers - one of them also being our leading assister, and had 3 guys go a combined 0-15 from 3... But I guess our 7 footer should've demanded the ball on the inbounds and dribble the ball 90 feet in order to post up and take 20 shots?

[Saberestar]

This is good, actually. Everyone is pointing out his flaws and being vocal about it. He spoke about how Igor told him not to worry about what other people are saying about him. So, he's definitely paying attention to the criticism and it should light a fire under him.

Maybe it won't happen throughout the course of this season, but definitely during the off-season. He'll should be looking to prove people wrong.

Worst case scenario, it has the opposite effect and he regresses (Iol) but he doesn't seem like the Bender type too much.

Yeah, and even Gambo (who was/is a fan of Ayton) is critizising him.

Read on Twitter

[lilfishi22]

thats BS fish..... you are extrapolating too far.... had we taken Doncic, we would have a very good player in the fold. Ayton looks to be a bigger project than anticipated, one that may never reach his lofty potential. You cant domino this one with an if then that scenario. Luka is nba ready and is not looking back. Ayton ? not at all. ..and what he lacks is the fundamental knowledge of the game.... along with effort. You might have to wait 2-3 years before it clicks, all the while hoping it does.

Im starting to feel bad for the guy as this could get ugly.

Luka is more ready I agree. He's also in a really good situation with an elite coach, an established system and a balanced roster. All these factors helps him have more of an inpact. Take away that balanced roster, take away vets who know their role and know how to play and I don't think Luka is as effective as he is now. Remember we talked about getting Luka and pairing him with a defensive rim runner to maximise his talent in his rookie season. That's EXACTLY what the Mavs brought in for him in DAJ. Is he still more effective than Ayton... probably but I don't think it's a massive gap.

With Ayton, give him a PG and I think his 16/10 increases and he becomes more impactful on the court. We all know C's take longer to develop, he's showing that and nothing is really unexpected. We were all aware or should have been aware he could score and rebound at a high level and that it was his defense that would hold him back.

[lilfishi22]

We wouldn't be in a much better spot if we had Luka now. The assumption was that if we took Luka, we would've taken or signed a rim protector to make the team more balanced. If we had taken Luka but didn't add a rim protector, we would still have the same defensive issues and likely still have issues getting high % buckets

The assumption with Ayton is that we would've taken (SGA) or signed a PG. We haven't done that. No matter who we took, that one player alone wasn't going to make us competitive.

If we took Luka, we would be starting Holmes for about 35mins a night. Theres your rim protector right there.

We most definitely would be in a better situation right now. Too early to tell about the where we would be in the future, but Luka has outplayed Ayton so far.

Luka has outplayed Ayton sure but does he have as good a rookie season he's having now if he was on our team?

Also we don't know how effective Holmes is playing starter minutes. Love his energy and hustle off the bench in about 20mpg but starting is a different beast

[Hesh]

Yeah, and even Gambo (who was/is a fan of Ayton) is critizising him.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, everyone is turning on him, rather quickly. While I think he deserves some (if not all) of the critism, it is a bit much at this point for everyone to be going in on him. But as expected, you're the #1 pick, you've got a target on your back. I think I read somewhere that Booker warned him about that, or someone told him, or he just mentioned it himself. But he's aware of it.

[Saberestar]

I'm also a little surprised by the reaction to the game tonight. We didn't have our two best scorers - one of them also being our leading assister, and had 3 guys go a combined 0-15 from 3... But I guess our 7 footer should've demanded the ball on the inbounds and dribble the ball 90 feet in order to post up and take 20 shots?

Yeah, it is true that this terrible loss was not all on him, but he does not need Book or Warren to make some impact on defense.

I am not bothered about his offense at all, but his defense needs to improve...is a must. He was invisible on defense against the Kings.

He probably is tired because the high number of games that he is playing, because he was better in preseason and the first month of the competition.

Better conditioning is gonna help him a lot IMO...or at least I hope so.

[Archx]

I'm also a little surprised by the reaction to the game tonight. We didn't have our two best scorers - one of them also being our leading assister, and had 3 guys go a combined 0-15 from 3... But I guess our 7 footer should've demanded the ball on the inbounds and dribble the ball 90 feet in order to post up and take 20 shots?

People complain that he doesn't get enough touches in the post. Tonight it was HIS game to deliver.

Suns started with the plan to post up Ayton and just ride him through the whole game. But what happened? He was benched after 4 mins because he couldn't get anything going down low ( offense and defense, zero energy and effort). He even passed the ball out of the post once he got his man in a good 1v1 situation. After he couldn't establish any post presence in those 4 mins, the entire Suns offense collapsed and it was basically over.

Obviously missing TJ and Booker lead to that as well but if your "future face of the franchise" plays with no motivation, what can you do?

[RaisingArizona]

When you call yourself the next Shaq you better bring it every night. It's honestly pathetic that he doesn't. Supremely talented yet he does not seem to care about being great. Being out there is enough. Getting the 2nd contract is enough. Playing alongside the other bigs is enough. Give me a break. We waited 50 years to draft a guy who isn't even that competitive? Just our luck.