Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[NavalAviator94]

[quote="Skin"]Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

[/quote

I was surprised when I saw this thread started by Skin(of all people.) Did he finally agree with what a number of us have been saying? Has he finally wizened up? Then I read his post.... lmao

[yoyojw17]

IMO, the "contract year" stuff doesn't apply. Vuc is being Vuc...but, Clifford is using him to his strengths. He's always been a fundamentally sound, skilled, smart post player with athletic limitations. It's clear Vogel was a catastrophically bad coaching period. This is a similar Vuc to pre-Vogel. The difference is we're winning. Not many years ago, he was competing for the league lead in rebounding and was unguardable in the post. He has evolved defensively and in his passing. Bamba still represents the "Modern rim-protecting, switchy defender with range"(potentially)...question now is whether Vuc and his style of play is archaic and unsustainable. Another is whether he will stay as an UFA with a high draft pick on the roster at his position. Still another is "Will Bamba become the defensive nightmare he projects to be?" Can we keep both? Should we (John Salley and Rodman off the bench was beastly)?...Good to have options rather than desperation. I think you DO have to at least consider what Bamba could bring back in terms of a playmaking guard.

A lot of us have said the same about vuc.... he just wasn't being used correctly. He should either be in the post or taking the three pointer. But it wasn't until this season that the 3 has become a consistent weapon. Clifford to me has breathed new life into vuc's career... and it just so happens to be a contract years well. Not the contract year being the motivation for his current play.

Bamba's look of always seeming to be going in 2nd gear is frustrating to watch... and it might take a little bit for him to get used to the nba speed, mindset and physicality...I'm assuming by his 3rd year to really start seeing what he can become. That's why i have no problems having a vuc resigning as a priority for this summer.

Ideal summer/rest of season would include the acquisition of a young pg (russell, dinwiddie, frank, fultz, tyus, ..... something fresh!!!) that can command the position... push DJ to the backup position, resign Vuc and ross... and ride the continuing development of our current players....and continue to add talent in the draft. Merge that with the maturation of our players under Vooch... we can officially say we turned that corner.

[flying_mollusk]

If Vuc keeps putting up these stats there is no way he takes a 1-2 year contract. Teams will throw a max contract at him. Multiple Laker related articles already talking about snagging him. People here should prep for Vuc getting a huge deal from us. He’s a star.

Imagine Vuc with a much better PG.

[npiper17]

Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

Purgatory to Hell - Hell to Purgatory. The Orlando way.

I wasn’t able to respond to your response in the other spec thread so I’ll do so here.

I don’t accept that trading Vuc last year would have garnered much of anything. I’ve said elsewhere about using the example of Greg Monroe from last season who Phoenix couldn’t trade for pennies and decided to waive. Under Vogel, that was the value Vuc had imo.

For me, his trade value has increased despite his contract expiring this summer. That’s because he now has value as opposed to last season where we were looking at a Payton-level return.

If he’s the guy that, for example, Boston sees as being the difference between beating the Raptors / Bucks in the East and not, then he’s much more of an asset than last year when clearly no one thought that and we knew he was shopped at the deadline and before.

[VFX]

Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

Purgatory to Hell - Hell to Purgatory. The Orlando way.

I wasn’t able to respond to your response in the other spec thread so I’ll do so here.

I don’t accept that trading Vuc last year would have garnered much of anything. I’ve said elsewhere about using the example of Greg Monroe from last season who Phoenix couldn’t trade for pennies and decided to waive. Under Vogel, that was the value Vuc had imo.

For me, his trade value has increased despite his contract expiring this summer. That’s because he now has value as opposed to last season where we were looking at a Payton-level return.

If he’s the guy that, for example, Boston sees as being the difference between beating the Raptors / Bucks in the East and not, then he’s much more of an asset than last year when clearly no one thought that and we knew he was shopped at the deadline and before.

Yeah, I see your point. It’s really about
(contract duration + on court production = perceived value)

He flipped both of those this year from negative into positive and vice versa. Now unless a true contender thinks giving up picks or prospects is worth a short term return OR if they want to trade with the intention of resigning it won’t be happening.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that many teams eligible for that scenario and I dont think Orlando will part with Vuc if it means giving up the wins he’s been producing on career highs. Trading him would be a ballsy move that I don’t think this FO will take, but probably should if they still view this roster as incomplete. They would be submitting to a rebuild in the most “successful” season in years.

[npiper17]

Purgatory to Hell - Hell to Purgatory. The Orlando way.

I wasn’t able to respond to your response in the other spec thread so I’ll do so here.

I don’t accept that trading Vuc last year would have garnered much of anything. I’ve said elsewhere about using the example of Greg Monroe from last season who Phoenix couldn’t trade for pennies and decided to waive. Under Vogel, that was the value Vuc had imo.

For me, his trade value has increased despite his contract expiring this summer. That’s because he now has value as opposed to last season where we were looking at a Payton-level return.

If he’s the guy that, for example, Boston sees as being the difference between beating the Raptors / Bucks in the East and not, then he’s much more of an asset than last year when clearly no one thought that and we knew he was shopped at the deadline and before.

Yeah, I see your point. It’s really about
(contract duration + on court production = perceived value)

He flipped both of those this year from negative into positive and vice versa. Now unless a true contender thinks giving up picks or prospects is worth a short term return OR if they want to trade with the intention of resigning it won’t be happening.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that many teams eligible for that scenario and I dont think Orlando will part with Vuc if it means giving up the wins he’s been producing on career highs. Trading him would be a ballsy move that I don’t think this FO will take. They would be submitting to a rebuild in the most “successful” season in years.

Yes I agree that trading him seems unlikely. Probably the most likely scenario if a trade did occur would be something like Vuc (if his play maintains obviously) traded to Boston for Rozier (with players added for salaries to fit).

This would have to mean that Weltman sees Rozier as the starting pg of the future and is thus willing to potentially sacrifice a playoff berth to grab that key piece for the future.

It would also need Ainge to see a few months of Vuc as being a difference maker along with deciding he won’t be able to match a big contract offer for Rozier this summer.

It certainly makes this season more intriguing IF Vucevic continues this level of play.

[Magic_Johnny12]

WE
DESPERATELY
NEED
TO
START
BUILDING
A
WINNING
CULTURE
BY
ALL
MEANS
NECESSARY
EVEN
IF
IT
MEANS
RESIGNING
VUCCI MANE

[VFX]

I wasn’t able to respond to your response in the other spec thread so I’ll do so here.

I don’t accept that trading Vuc last year would have garnered much of anything. I’ve said elsewhere about using the example of Greg Monroe from last season who Phoenix couldn’t trade for pennies and decided to waive. Under Vogel, that was the value Vuc had imo.

For me, his trade value has increased despite his contract expiring this summer. That’s because he now has value as opposed to last season where we were looking at a Payton-level return.

If he’s the guy that, for example, Boston sees as being the difference between beating the Raptors / Bucks in the East and not, then he’s much more of an asset than last year when clearly no one thought that and we knew he was shopped at the deadline and before.

Yeah, I see your point. It’s really about
(contract duration + on court production = perceived value)

He flipped both of those this year from negative into positive and vice versa. Now unless a true contender thinks giving up picks or prospects is worth a short term return OR if they want to trade with the intention of resigning it won’t be happening.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that many teams eligible for that scenario and I dont think Orlando will part with Vuc if it means giving up the wins he’s been producing on career highs. Trading him would be a ballsy move that I don’t think this FO will take. They would be submitting to a rebuild in the most “successful” season in years.

Yes I agree that trading him seems unlikely. Probably the most likely scenario if a trade did occur would be something like Vuc (if his play maintains obviously) traded to Boston for Rozier (with players added for salaries to fit).

This would have to mean that Weltman sees Rozier as the starting pg of the future and is thus willing to potentially sacrifice a playoff berth to grab that key piece for the future.

It would also need Ainge to see a few months of Vuc as being a difference maker along with deciding he won’t be able to match a big contract offer for Rozier this summer.

It certainly makes this season more intriguing IF Vucevic continues this level of play.

Two worst case scenarios- Management takes the risk and forgoes trading him as expected. Vuc gets injured or Orlando goes on a losing streak after the deadline still missing the playoffs. What then? We would have to resign him for a huge contract at risk of him walking. Who even knows where’s his value is then.

[Magic_Johnny12]

I wonder when was the last time (if ever) an all star or a player playing at a level similar to Vuc was traded on their contract year and what they yielded in return.

The only player that comes to mind is Nurkic, but he wasn't near playing at the level as current Vuc and that trade got Denver Plumlee (at the time was considered a good prospect) and Memphis FRP which turned out to be pick #13 (Donovan Mitchell)

People claiming we cant trade Vuc for significant assets is truly mistaken in my eyes.

[VFX]

I wonder when was the last time (if ever) an all star or a player playing at a level similar to Vuc was traded on their contract year and what they yielded in return.

The only player that comes to mind is Nurkic, but he wasn't near playing at the level as current Vuc and that trade got Denver Plumlee (at the time was considered a good prospect) and Memphis FRP which turned out to be pick #13 (Donovan Mitchell)

People claiming we cant trade Vuc for significant assets is truly mistaken in my eyes.

It’s all about timing, fit, and available assets from the team trading for him. Retaining him for a large contract is another question. Highly doubt WeHam do it anyway even if there was a team that would pull the trigger.

[pepe1991]

Vučević nba 2k rating is now 86

#Star

[npiper17]

Yeah, I see your point. It’s really about
(contract duration + on court production = perceived value)

He flipped both of those this year from negative into positive and vice versa. Now unless a true contender thinks giving up picks or prospects is worth a short term return OR if they want to trade with the intention of resigning it won’t be happening.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that many teams eligible for that scenario and I dont think Orlando will part with Vuc if it means giving up the wins he’s been producing on career highs. Trading him would be a ballsy move that I don’t think this FO will take. They would be submitting to a rebuild in the most “successful” season in years.

Yes I agree that trading him seems unlikely. Probably the most likely scenario if a trade did occur would be something like Vuc (if his play maintains obviously) traded to Boston for Rozier (with players added for salaries to fit).

This would have to mean that Weltman sees Rozier as the starting pg of the future and is thus willing to potentially sacrifice a playoff berth to grab that key piece for the future.

It would also need Ainge to see a few months of Vuc as being a difference maker along with deciding he won’t be able to match a big contract offer for Rozier this summer.

It certainly makes this season more intriguing IF Vucevic continues this level of play.

Two worst case scenarios- Management takes the risk and forgoes trading him as expected. Vuc gets injured or Orlando goes on a losing streak after the deadline still missing the playoffs. What then? We would have to resign him for a huge contract at risk of him walking. Who even knows where’s his value is then.

Personally I don’t think there’s any way he’s re-signed to a huge contract. I could see a 2 year $40-45m deal allowing Vuc to hit free agency again at 30 yrs old but I can’t see a 4 or 5 year deal being offered.

[fendilim]

I wonder when was the last time (if ever) an all star or a player playing at a level similar to Vuc was traded on their contract year and what they yielded in return.

The only player that comes to mind is Nurkic, but he wasn't near playing at the level as current Vuc and that trade got Denver Plumlee (at the time was considered a good prospect) and Memphis FRP which turned out to be pick #13 (Donovan Mitchell)

People claiming we cant trade Vuc for significant assets is truly mistaken in my eyes.

It’s all about timing, fit, and available assets from the team trading for him. Retaining him for a large contract is another question. Highly doubt WeHam do it anyway even if there was a team that would pull the trigger.

I may be wrong but it has to be considered that Nurkic was an RFA that year. Vuc will be UFA.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

We should give Isaiah Canaan a look

[dsg2021]

Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

100% your call to be disrespectful to your own team's players on even a general thread OP.. Couldn't even make a thread on it (warning to not overpay Vooch), or a post about it. Just take it all the way to the general thread OP.

Good for you to put yourself out there like that, not hiding anything.

Keep watching.

[Skin]

Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

[/quote

I was surprised when I saw this thread started by Skin(of all people.) Did he finally agree with what a number of us have been saying? Has he finally wizened up? Then I read his post.... lmao

You have to appreciate the cleverness.

I'm happy for Vuc. He's about to get PAID. He's always been underpaid here. I've never had issues with him from a cost/production standpoint. If I'm trying to be positive... I love how he has enhanced his 3pt range since last season. Clifford seems to know how to use him best. ...and Gordon, Isaac and Bamba are good defensive talents around him.

[Bergmaniac]

Vucevic is 8th in the league in RPM in the latest update. Amazing. His DRPM is quite high too.

[Skin]

You're embarrassing yourself again. Still excited about them sweater vests??

I never feel embarrassed. Besides, I thought I was being pretty balanced here. I titled the thread in tribute to him while questioning how to handle another contract year player.

These wins feel good in my heart, but in my head, we're still a team that lacks substance behind their rebuild. What we do to get better from here is real questionable.

LOL pretty balanced my ass.

I intended to get And1's and I intended to hit a nerve.

Bingo! Jingo! Jango!

[Skin]

Vucevic is 8th in the league in RPM in the latest update. Amazing. His DRPM is quite high too.

When Vuc's trade value on the market goes from "We don't need to trade for him because he's expiring and we can sign him in the offseason..." to "We need to trade for him now because he helps us win now and we want his Bird rights so we can extend him and go over the cap..."

THEN I'll get excited about the player he's become.

[Nemesis21]

Skin. Get help.

Skin doesn't need help. Skin gets it. Magic Matic gets it. I get it. 90% of this board does not get it. Who needs help again?