2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

[bwgood77]

Why will we be any better in the future at drafting?

The guy responsible for all of this is still in charge, we have a skeleton crew right now in our scouting department and it’s likely our GM will be a former player with no actual experience.

At some point don’t Suns fans get sick of history just repeating itself??

Sure we can gamble that we pick the right guy AND that we can actually develop him.

Or we can just trade for a dude who’s already a stud, has already been developed and fits the timeline.

Who cares if he eats up our salary cap? Beal is a young star, he’s worth the money. Better that, than us saving it in the futile hopes of luring a top player.

Just look at our recent top-10 picks, why are we so eager to jump in that pool again?

Go get Beal, give Booker an actual real life player so he’s not shouldering all the load and then build around Beal/Booker/Ayton and either Bridges or Warren.

BTW; this is wholly dependent on if you think Point-Book works, if you don’t; then you obviously don’t make this trade.

I think Poibt Book can work; so I’m onboard.

Next year;
Booker
Beal
Bridges
?
Ayton

Sign me up

Well, McD was in charge of drafting....and probably those scouts that got canned helped convince him of Bender/Chriss/Len/Jackson, etc.

Lots of teams make many bad draft choices but then make some great ones.

Anyway, I don't think Beal is really available. Wizards fans don't think Leonsis would trade barring a super offer...at least until the offseason depending how this season goes. Thought they had been playing better.

Too be clear. I was never pushing to get Beal. Instead, I am all for trading away picks to get veterans under contract now. We need to shore up our team (Booker, Warren, Ayton, Bridges) and give them a chance to win. I do not believe for one second we will be able to use our summer cap space to get any decent free agents. We will have to overpay someone so that they willingly want to spend time in purgatory. I don't see it happening. We have tried to build through free agency and failed. We have tried to build through the draft and failed. It is time to make some sweeping trades and give away picks for veterans.

Too many teams have max cap space, sometimes for two guys, to get these guys in free agency. Our young guys really need to grow to be too competitive by adding decent vets...we should have learned that by now. Now maybe add to the coaching staff. Get a big man defensive coach. But I do want to add some decent younger role players like a Kleber, keep Holmes and a decent vet PG (or better than decent if we can).

[bigfoot]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

[Preacherpj]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

the idea with trades is at the very least you know the asset you're acquiring.

Like there's no mystery with a guy like Kemba Walker or Bradley Beal.... they are very very good; now maybe they overpay in those deals; but those guys won't be busts because they have already proven themselves at the NBA level. There's far less risk.


Its not that I'm advocating to never draft again, its two things really;

Its the track record for this team picking in the lottery (which has been abysmal) and until they hire an actual GM with actual scouts I don't know why anyone thinks 'this year' would be different.

But its also the fit of the team; we have the absolute ability to add an impact talent to this core, either by nailing a high draft pick or by trading that pick.

What would fit our current core better? Another lottery pick, or an established in his prime veteran? I think we desperately need another guy who can play at a high level right now to help Booker and Ayton. I believe its necessary to find that type of piece.

[Preacherpj]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

Yes! Exactly my thoughts.

Even if we nail the draft pick, those guys still take years to really develop.

And if we miss on another top-5 lottery pick...... the wheels really might start coming off with Booker and Ayton

[bwgood77]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

We need to inject heart, and intensity and leave it all on the floor type of guy. Even in the small chance we get Zion, he is like a PJ Tucker on steroids who will be infectious. I want to see the college season play out.

Signing these "mentoring vets" has been a monumental failure and waste of cap space.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

I'm not sure there's a future all-nba player on this roster right now. There's some hope that Booker or Ayton could be but frankly it's no better than maybe 50/50 that either guy ever gets there. There's a chance that the guy you draft next year will be the best player on this team.

With that said I'm not totally opposed to trading the pick and I do like Beal but to me if you do trade the pick it has to be because you love the guy coming back not because you just feel like you can't add any more young players. That philosophy has got teams in trouble; most recently the Magic with the Ibaka trade but there are other examples like the Nets trading their lotto pick for Gerald Wallace and then watching it become Damian Lillard.

I get the notion that you can't develop too many young guys at once but I'd rather just move a guy like Jackson than this pick.

I'm all for adding some veteran talent this summer and I agree that the max type FA's won't come here because they can get the same money elsewhere but when dealing with the non-max types like Dinwiddie, Rubio, or Mirotic the Suns absolutely have a chance because they will take the biggest contract offered to them.

[lilfishi22]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

We need to inject heart, and intensity and leave it all on the floor type of guy. Even in the small chance we get Zion, he is like a PJ Tucker on steroids who will be infectious. I want to see the college season play out.

Signing these "mentoring vets" has been a monumental failure and waste of cap space.

No one is in support of the mentoring vets we've had in the past. We're talking about productive veterans now. Players who already know how to play, who are effective and productive and we know what we're getting from them.

[bwgood77]

It not that. We have our core ... Booker, Warren, Ayton, and Bridges. We lack other basketball players to help them. A draft pick is not going to help Booker and our core tomorrow, next summer, next season, or probably in the next three seasons turn this ship around. Veterans in the 25 to 30 year old range are what we need today and over the next three months. Free agency will continue to be unfruitful because players won't willingly come to purgatory. Trades are what we need between now and February.

We need to inject heart, and intensity and leave it all on the floor type of guy. Even in the small chance we get Zion, he is like a PJ Tucker on steroids who will be infectious. I want to see the college season play out.

Signing these "mentoring vets" has been a monumental failure and waste of cap space.

No one is in support of the mentoring vets we've had in the past. We're talking about productive veterans now. Players who already know how to play, who are effective and productive and we know what we're getting from them.

That's still all theoretical. Many thought Ariza would do that. We need to sign young hungry guys who want to prove themselves.

[lilfishi22]

We need to inject heart, and intensity and leave it all on the floor type of guy. Even in the small chance we get Zion, he is like a PJ Tucker on steroids who will be infectious. I want to see the college season play out.

Signing these "mentoring vets" has been a monumental failure and waste of cap space.

No one is in support of the mentoring vets we've had in the past. We're talking about productive veterans now. Players who already know how to play, who are effective and productive and we know what we're getting from them.

That's still all theoretical. Many thought Ariza would do that. We need to sign young hungry guys who want to prove themselves.

So is the theoretical player that Len, Bender, Chriss, JJ were suppose to be. I *LOVED* the fit that Bender was suppose to be next to Ayton as he was occasionally hitting shots last season but he just hasn't panned out. I thought JJ was going to take a step forward in efficiency as his game matures and he'll bring the passing, the defense and the scoring he showed in the 2nd half of last season. I'm not ruling JJ out as a future productive but we just need guys now who can get us back to playing competitive basketball. We need guys who have already proven themselves to put around our young guys because they don't know how to play. When you have money and a good amount of it, why are you buying a million dollars worth of lotto tickets hoping to win big so you could buy a house when you could buy a house with that million dollars?

*I don't know anything about lotteries chances etc so just take my analogy at face value *

We were both fans of the Ariza signing at the time and I mainly liked it because I thought he was going to be a productive and experienced cog in the system but he's shown that he's also heavily reliant on a strong and experienced playmaker to maximise his talent, like many of the players on the roster. I thought we were going to get a PG before the start of the season using our other assets which I do think would've made the Ariza signing a lot more sensible. FYI I'm not against bringing in young players who already know how to play but just need the opportunity to play a bigger role. I'm just not in favor going down the draft route anymore. We've taken *a lot* of shots in the lottery and honestly, every draft (no matter how strong or weak) has productive players but I'm just not confident we'll pick the right guys, or develop them correctly.

[bwgood77]

No one is in support of the mentoring vets we've had in the past. We're talking about productive veterans now. Players who already know how to play, who are effective and productive and we know what we're getting from them.

That's still all theoretical. Many thought Ariza would do that. We need to sign young hungry guys who want to prove themselves.

So is the theoretical player that Len, Bender, Chriss, JJ were suppose to be. I *LOVED* the fit that Bender was suppose to be next to Ayton as he was occasionally hitting shots last season but he just hasn't panned out. I thought JJ was going to take a step forward in efficiency as his game matures and he'll bring the passing, the defense and the scoring he showed in the 2nd half of last season. I'm not ruling JJ out as a future productive but we just need guys now who can get us back to playing competitive basketball. We need guys who have already proven themselves to put around our young guys because they don't know how to play. When you have money and a good amount of it, why are you buying a million dollars worth of lotto tickets hoping to win big so you could buy a house when you could buy a house with that million dollars?

*I don't know anything about lotteries chances etc so just take my analogy at face value *

We were both fans of the Ariza signing at the time and I mainly liked it because I thought he was going to be a productive and experienced cog in the system but he's shown that he's also heavily reliant on a strong and experienced playmaker to maximise his talent, like many of the players on the roster. I thought we were going to get a PG before the start of the season using our other assets which I do think would've made the Ariza signing a lot more sensible. FYI I'm not against bringing in young players who already know how to play but just need the opportunity to play a bigger role. I'm just not in favor going down the draft route anymore. We've taken *a lot* of shots in the lottery and honestly, every draft (no matter how strong or weak) has productive players but I'm just not confident we'll pick the right guys, or develop them correctly.

I was talking about our draft picks but was talking about signing younger hungry players with cap space and not old mentoring vets...had enough Dudleys, Chandlers and Arizas....

I didn't really like the Ariza signing until I read some espn article about how great of a mentor he is and how his teammates love him, etc. It turns out we needed the wing depth anyway, especially with our injuries, but he hasn't played particularly well.

The main reason I was ok with it though was that it was just a 1 year contract so we keep the cap space...and no one else was really available. Would have rather had Tyreke but he hasn't played particularly well either (though Indy has like 3 other pretty good PGs).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Going to review a couple high energy, great defensive prospects with a lot of fight in them, which seems to be something that our team is in desperate need of!!!

1- Sagabe Konate- http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/sagaba-konate.html?m=1 .

<iframe width="280" height="210" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aIvkuXylreY" .

https://youtu.be/QLWvNz5IyJs . He reminds me of a cross between Ben Wallace/ and a 6'8 shot blocking P.J. tucker. And can be had for a 2nd round pick.

2- Kostja Mushidi- http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/01/kostja-mushidi.html?m=1 .

https://youtu.be/20xD__7XwNU . He's a 6'5 Belgian point guard who is an exact clone of Malcolm Brogdon. And yet another defensive bulldog type of player that can be had in the 2nd round.

3- Bruno Fernando: http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/bruno-fernando.html?m=1 .

https://youtu.be/MzhRs-Gy7KE . He's a Big man dirt worker in the mold defensively of Emeka Okafor. Can be had in the 2nd round.

4- Kenny Wooten: A great defensive prospect that would be an absolute steal for us in the mold of Jordan Bell. He's a great mobile defender, and dirt worker who does the intangible things that it takes to win.

https://youtu.be/DtS6zrqJg28 .

5- Eric Paschall: http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/eric-paschall.html?m=1 .

https://youtu.be/ljF8f8TXh_4 . He kind of a cross between Paul milsapp/ and Kenny Thomas. He's a hard dirt worker intangibles guy who always brings the energy and intensity, and never takes a play off.

Thoughts on these prospects?

[AtheJ415]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

This is where I land too. We traded a boatload for Brandon Knight, arguably the worst highly paid player on the team during this awful run. There is no evidence that we would be better at it, and more than that we just dumped the GM making those prior picks. Also, we're the worst team in the league. So yeah, the draft is kind of obviously the best way to keep going in the short run. Hope for Zion. But few stars who would really move the needle are going to be available unless they are on horrid deals or expiring, and why would an expiring guy stay here when we are this bad?

Trading small assets for role players with reasonable deals is fine. We should do that, get a real bench for Warren and Booker's return, and see how things look. My bigger worry is the panic trade for John Wall or something dumb like trading our own 1st for a middling PG.

[Preacherpj]

Once you've lost faith in the ability to draft you might as well just close up shop and give up. Plus what's the logic that they would be any better at making trades than making picks.

This is where I land too. We traded a boatload for Brandon Knight, arguably the worst highly paid player on the team during this awful run. There is no evidence that we would be better at it, and more than that we just dumped the GM making those prior picks. Also, we're the worst team in the league. So yeah, the draft is kind of obviously the best way to keep going in the short run. Hope for Zion. But few stars who would really move the needle are going to be available unless they are on horrid deals or expiring, and why would an expiring guy stay here when we are this bad?

Trading small assets for role players with reasonable deals is fine. We should do that, get a real bench for Warren and Booker's return, and see how things look. My bigger worry is the panic trade for John Wall or something dumb like trading our own 1st for a middling PG.

Sadly we have to hope the FO makes the right decision either way. And with this franchise........ sigh

What I'm saying is there probably isn't a really wrong choice here, use the pick to land a top young talent or use the pick to get a good veteran player. The FO has to either nail that pick (which we haven't done lately) or get good value in that trade (which we haven't done lately).

At the end of the day a bad front office and organization is going to likely mess up either route.

[TheLogician]

If we don't get Zion, I'd be happy moving down for Rui Hachimura. Good size, long arms, and steadily improving his game. He seems like someone who will maximize his potential. A TJ Warren replacement if he's traded.

[hauntedkiwi]

If we don't get Zion, I'd be happy moving down for Rui Hachimura. Good size, long arms, and steadily improving his game. He seems like someone who will maximize his potential. A TJ Warren replacement if he's traded.

If we don't get Zion, would it make sense to trade down with Boston?

Boston is probably going to have 4 first round draft picks. All probably late or out of the lottery. They have 10 players under contract next year, 11 if you count Kyrie and 12 with an MLE contract.

It seems unlikely they add four rookies.

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[bwgood77]

If we don't get Zion, I'd be happy moving down for Rui Hachimura. Good size, long arms, and steadily improving his game. He seems like someone who will maximize his potential. A TJ Warren replacement if he's traded.

If we don't get Zion, would it make sense to trade down with Boston?

Boston is probably going to have 4 first round draft picks. All probably late or out of the lottery. They have 10 players under contract next year, 11 if you count Kyrie and 12 with an MLE contract.

It seems unlikely they add four rookies.

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Yeah, but I don't think we need to add more than 1..our own first...and then maybe the 2nd(s) we can draft a couple and maybe sign as 2 way players or have as 14th or 15th guys.

[TheLogician]

If we don't get Zion, I'd be happy moving down for Rui Hachimura. Good size, long arms, and steadily improving his game. He seems like someone who will maximize his potential. A TJ Warren replacement if he's traded.

If we don't get Zion, would it make sense to trade down with Boston?

Boston is probably going to have 4 first round draft picks. All probably late or out of the lottery. They have 10 players under contract next year, 11 if you count Kyrie and 12 with an MLE contract.

It seems unlikely they add four rookies.

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Boston has firsts from Sacramento, Memphis, and LAC, plus its own. All of those are mid or late firsts right now. I'd be fine trading with them depending what happens in the lottery.

[TheLogician]

#1 Gonzaga vs. #7 Tennessee in Colangelo Classic comes on at 1 PM AZ.

Both teams have players to watch.

[bwgood77]

#1 Gonzaga vs. #7 Tennessee in Colangelo Classic comes on at 1 PM AZ.

Both teams have players to watch.

Yeah, this guy might be nice next to Ayton..

Read on Twitter

[TheLogician]

#1 Gonzaga vs. #7 Tennessee in Colangelo Classic comes on at 1 PM AZ.

Both teams have players to watch.

Yeah, this guy might be nice next to Ayton..

Read on Twitter

Williams and Schofield had great games. Clarke looks like a defensive stud. He needs to work on his FTs and develop an outside shot. Hachimura was okay but Perkins and Norvell killed Gonzaga today.