Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[Knightro]

Philadelphia also got supremely lucky in The Process years.

They're literally one Joel Embiid broken foot happening 10 days before the draft away from having a Kris Dunn-Andrew Wiggins-Nerlens Noel core.

They are simply NOT a model to emulate. It took three straight tanking years AND incredible injury luck (which seemed like bad luck at the time and actually turned out to be great fortune for them) to end up where they're at.

[Ducklett]

As soon as you come to terms with the fact that none of us will likely live long enough to see the Magic ever win a championship, you can just enjoy the games in the now.

[JBSouthpaw]

Have never agreed with you more.

Add to the fact that our top picks from "tanking" are coming off the bench and our latest #6 pick plays 12-17 minutes behind a player that must be on the court to win games. People dont seem to understand that winning in the nba always comes down to talent and "winning culture" is just a sustained prosperity of utilizing said talent. We aren't done acquiring talent and there are very few ways to find it these days, but people aren't willing to see how we get better for the future.
Abyss is correct.

Do you guys think we'll go from bottom of the NBA, to top 3?
there will be middle years, look at Philly last year.

IF these guys can beat teams, they should. You have to learn how to win, Boston is struggling with that now, look at all that talent.

You can't be serious that it always comes down to talent... It takes SO much more than talent.
Look at DEN & SAC right now, it isn't talent carrying them.

I’m talking about championships. You are arguing that the most talented teams don’t win championships? The leagues most talented teams nearly always win or are competing for championships. They always have top 5 players at least. Boston is adjusting to Hayward coming back and they will figure it out.

Look at Philly last year? Arguably two elite players in Simmons and Embiid. Those players were drafted in the top 5. Not seeing your point.

2 elite players drafted top 5, aren't competing for Champ. should they tank?

No, learn to win and get better.

[VFX]

Bamba plays the least amount of minutes of all top 10 picks because Vuc needs to be on the floor for us to sustain a celebrated 12-13 record in the east.

Bamba has played in every single game and has only played less than 10 minutes one time in 25 games. He's playing as much as he can handle.

The issue with Mo is that he's been absolutely horrific in his minutes so far this year from a positive impact standpoint. No, it's not all his fault and no I'm not suggesting he's going to be a bad player forever. Simply pointing out the facts of the situation.

Bamba's playing time, considering how terrible he's been, is the furthest thing I have from a concern.

The more important point is that he will not be seeing more time if they decide to offer Vuc a long lucrative contract, which is what he will be asking for in his prime.

Bamba doesn’t look good on the court because he plays backup minutes while other rookies might look bad, but are given a longer leash for growing pains and play through mistakes.

To be clear, I was fine with Bamba playing less minutes under Vuc this season as long as it was obvious Bamba could step in as a starter soon. That is less likely with Vuc putting up career numbers. Bambas playing time isn’t a concern to you, but I see what the implications could be.

[VFX]

Do you guys think we'll go from bottom of the NBA, to top 3?
there will be middle years, look at Philly last year.

IF these guys can beat teams, they should. You have to learn how to win, Boston is struggling with that now, look at all that talent.

You can't be serious that it always comes down to talent... It takes SO much more than talent.
Look at DEN & SAC right now, it isn't talent carrying them.

I’m talking about championships. You are arguing that the most talented teams don’t win championships? The leagues most talented teams nearly always win or are competing for championships. They always have top 5 players at least. Boston is adjusting to Hayward coming back and they will figure it out.

Look at Philly last year? Arguably two elite players in Simmons and Embiid. Those players were drafted in the top 5. Not seeing your point.

2 elite players drafted top 5, aren't competing for Champ. should they tank?

No, learn to win and get better.

Two young elite players that just acquired Jimmy Butler because of their obvious potential. They are competing for the eastern conference. Nowhere did I talk about tanking in any of my responses, just that living in the middle without elite talent gets you nowhere.

[Knightro]

The more important point is that he will not be seeing more time if they decide to offer Vuc a long lucrative contract, which is what he will be asking for in his prime.

Bamba doesn’t look good on the court because he plays backup minutes while other rookies might look bad, but are given a longer leash for growing pains and play through mistakes.

To be clear, I was fine with Bamba playing less minutes under Vuc this season as long as it was obvious Bamba could step in as a starter soon. That is less likely with Vuc putting up career numbers. Bambas playing time isn’t a concern to you, but I see what the implications could be.

Mo's timeline on stepping in as a starter all depends on Mo himself, does it not?

If Bamba opens next season in the same 15-20 MPG role as the backup C behind Vucevic, but rather than struggling he just DOMINATES his minutes and looks like Gobert with a 3PT shot, the Magic would quite obviously just trade Vucevic at that point, would they not?

[Skin]

Next year, people will say "We should've tanked last year". It will be excrutiating after a few years when we see the Superstars that come from this draft.

Its not just about the talent. All the stars aligned last year for a major tank season. There were 2 players for me that were everything we needed and that's Doncic and Young. We had tons of injuries, and the lottery odds hadn't changed so we knew where we needed to be. That Wizards game is the one that will haunt me for the rest of my days. With these new odds who knows where a good spot to be is. If we traded Vuc and Evan before the season started I woulda been all for it. But how can you do it now? Issac and Gordon look energized playing these meaningfull games. They actually believe they can make the playoffs. How could you take that from them without it causing a negtive effect?

Which is why they won’t do it. Management played their hand poorly and this team will live in mediocrity if they feel forced to double down on a lengthy Vuc contract instead of committing to a real rebuild post Hennigan. Bamba and Isaac off the bench doesn’t scream “rebuild” at all. Bamba plays the least amount of minutes of all top 10 picks because Vuc needs to be on the floor for us to sustain a celebrated 12-13 record in the east. But that’s what you get when you hire a win now coach and you lack superstar talent. I’m not saying to tank, just that I wish we were rebuilding with our youth instead of living in the middle.

I guess as a fan I should just shut up and accept the impending mediocrity. About all I could do rather than agree/ disagree with other Magic fans on the direction of this franchise.

Yep, I just wanted this year to be a developmental year. Would've been nice to see Isaac make a big jump. Bamba playing 3rd fiddle to Gordon and Isaac. Would they take lumps? Sure... but at least the team is relying on their future core. Isaac just can't take a big jump with veterans like Evan and Vuc being main components.

If our future core is going to remain sticking with Evan and Vuc then we're in trouble. I don't care what their individual stats say...good or bad.

The failure to trade them has resulted in a blurred vision and false hopes.

[VFX]

The more important point is that he will not be seeing more time if they decide to offer Vuc a long lucrative contract, which is what he will be asking for in his prime.

Bamba doesn’t look good on the court because he plays backup minutes while other rookies might look bad, but are given a longer leash for growing pains and play through mistakes.

To be clear, I was fine with Bamba playing less minutes under Vuc this season as long as it was obvious Bamba could step in as a starter soon. That is less likely with Vuc putting up career numbers. Bambas playing time isn’t a concern to you, but I see what the implications could be.

Mo's timeline on stepping in as a starter all depends on Mo himself, does it not?

If Bamba opens next season in the same 15-20 MPG role as the backup C behind Vucevic, but rather than struggling he just DOMINATES his minutes and looks like Gobert with a 3PT shot, the Magic would quite obviously just trade Vucevic at that point, would they not?

Maybe. Maybe not. I would personally rather see him in starters minutes as a top 10 lottery pick to a team fighting for a playoff spot.

[dsg2021]

The wins are good for the heart. There's a healing element there. I get it. I feel it too.

While I see their limits, I don't hate the make up of our entire team. To be fair to WeHam, if I were to build around Vuc, I would surround him with players like Gordon, Isaac and Bamba.

Maybe we just need to hope for the incredible... something like drafting a star with a late pick... like Giannis, Mitchell, Booker, Kawhi were. That's the kind of dumb luck we need.

Hammond drafted Giannis with a late pick

And I think WeHam knows they will draft in that 10-20 range too, they are focusing everything on it. Who will be the Shai of the 2019 draft, the Mitchell, the Giannis (Hammond picked), the Capela, the Booker, the Sabonis, the Brogdon (Hammond picked), the Kuzma of the 2019 draft? All picks taken after #10 in the draft.

[JF5]

Magic won't tank. Sooner you get over it faster you'll have better time enjoying present over losing in present for future that might never arrive. Also most superstars are not developed, they come in nba and are that good.
Also there is no scenario where Bamba and Isaac lead team to rings so it's pointless to even act there might can if Magic pull up some God-like guard from draft, who, btw is not existing in 2019 lottery

A hope in a future is better than no hope in the future.

You're hopeless... Honestly this team was never going to go full tank, ever... They've barely done it before and they won't do it now... With Martins heading this organization and wanting to sell a respectable product to the locals and tourist abroad that option is not something that they'd fully embrace.

On top of that with this team winning, having a couple of young pieces, and having a Star Caliber player with great coach/cultures it makes this market a lot more attractable to star free-agents. I don't know about you but I'm tired of waiting 3-5 years for players to develop into players that they might never become. On top of that if the Magic can't get a draft pick where they could fill a need you just end up with another log jam at specific positions. Say if this team at the 4th-5th position (Which has been the case for the previous 4-5 years) in the draft and was forced to draft BPA and it ends up being a SF/PF or C. You're forced to trade AG/Issac/Bamba or the other prospects values are depressed and you're in a never ending cycle of having good young talent and trading them away for pennies on the dollar (Like Oladipo and Harris).

I get it, you don't like Vucevic... But if a team has the pieces to be relevant NOW then you have to go for it. There is just no guarantee that these young guys will be the Stars that you project them to be. Especially with this organizations luck has been the last few years.

[Skin]

The more important point is that he will not be seeing more time if they decide to offer Vuc a long lucrative contract, which is what he will be asking for in his prime.

Bamba doesn’t look good on the court because he plays backup minutes while other rookies might look bad, but are given a longer leash for growing pains and play through mistakes.

To be clear, I was fine with Bamba playing less minutes under Vuc this season as long as it was obvious Bamba could step in as a starter soon. That is less likely with Vuc putting up career numbers. Bambas playing time isn’t a concern to you, but I see what the implications could be.

Mo's timeline on stepping in as a starter all depends on Mo himself, does it not?

If Bamba opens next season in the same 15-20 MPG role as the backup C behind Vucevic, but rather than struggling he just DOMINATES his minutes and looks like Gobert with a 3PT shot, the Magic would quite obviously just trade Vucevic at that point, would they not?

When has Vuc ever been tradable? On a brand big new contract, things will be harder than ever. We'd have to take on another Mozgov like contract. That's not a smart way to allocate your cap space.

Besides, when you give a guy like Vuc a big new contract, you're telling him that he IS the future.

The Magic should just trust their scouting evaluation on what they envisioned for Bamba and let that vision blossom. Not stifle it by signing Vuc to a big new deal.

[pepe1991]

This notion that Magic are ruining Bamba because they don't start him has to stop. It's simply big fat lie.
IF you read acrticles and fanposts from teams that do start rookies ( Bulls , Hawks, Suns in particular) you'll figure what they have in common. Top 3 worst record in nba. And all of them want their rookies to GTFO from starting lineup because they are getting waxed on both ends on daily bases.

Hawks fans want Trae in G league due his incredible sucking ,with net rating of - 16 and by having the worst Defensive plus minus in whole league.

Suns asking why da F they drafted heartless goon that freaks out about video games but could not care less if some 5'9 midget scores layup on his a** all night long.

[Skin]

Magic won't tank. Sooner you get over it faster you'll have better time enjoying present over losing in present for future that might never arrive. Also most superstars are not developed, they come in nba and are that good.
Also there is no scenario where Bamba and Isaac lead team to rings so it's pointless to even act there might can if Magic pull up some God-like guard from draft, who, btw is not existing in 2019 lottery

A hope in a future is better than no hope in the future.

You're hopeless... Honestly this team was never going to go full tank, ever... They've barely done it before and they won't do it now... With Martins heading this organization and wanting to sell a respectable product to the locals and tourist abroad that option is not something that they'd fully embrace.

On top of that with this team winning, having a couple of young pieces, and having a Star Caliber player with great coach/cultures it makes this market a lot more attractable to star free-agents. I don't know about you but I'm tired of waiting 3-5 years for players to develop into players that they might never become. On top of that if the Magic can't get a draft pick where they could fill a need you just end up with another log jam at specific positions. Say if this team at the 4th-5th position (Which has been the case for the previous 4-5 years) in the draft and was forced to draft BPA and it ends up being a SF/PF or C. You're forced to trade AG/Issac/Bamba or the other prospects values are depressed and you're in a never ending cycle of having good young talent and trading them away for pennies on the dollar (Like Oladipo and Harris).

I get it, you don't like Vucevic... But if a team has the pieces to be relevant NOW then you have to go for it. There is just no guarantee that these young guys will be the Stars that you project them to be. Especially with this organizations luck has been the last few years.

I am hopeless... I am very hopeless in my belief that we are building a legitimate championship contender.

Be real with yourself. We're hovering around .500. Hardly the lure to get a superstar. It feels dumb even thinking Durant or Leonard would look at us. Especially AFTER we give Vuc his big pay day. lol

[VFX]

This notion that Magic are ruining Bamba because they don't start him has to stop. It's simply big fat lie.
IF you read acrticles and fanposts from teams that do start rookies ( Bulls , Hawks, Suns in particular) you'll figure what they have in common. Top 3 worst record in nba. And all of them want their rookies to GTFO from starting lineup because they are getting waxed on both ends on daily bases.

Hawks fans want Trae in G league due his incredible sucking ,with net rating of - 16 and by having the worst Defensive plus minus in whole league.

Suns asking why da F they drafted heartless goon that freaks out about video games but could not care less if some 5'9 midget scores layup on his a** all night long.

Nobody is saying Bamba should be starting over Vuc. The argument is against giving Vuc a long term contract based off his play this year which will stifle Bamba from becoming the future.

[Knightro]

Maybe. Maybe not. I would personally rather see him in starters minutes as a top 10 lottery pick to a team fighting for a playoff spot.

That's a great thing to want, but the problem is that it's just not realistic at this point and time.

Bamba simply isn't good enough to play starter minutes right now. Physically speaking he's quite literally not capable with his poor strength and conditioning. Skill wise he's not really capable either because he's already foul prone in limited minutes and that would likely only be magnified even worse the more tired he got.

Orlando could choose to ignore all that and force feed him starter minutes anyway, but they certainly wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot at that point. They'd be closer to Phoenix... which actually seems to be what some people would prefer.

[Skin]

This notion that Magic are ruining Bamba because they don't start him has to stop. It's simply big fat lie.
IF you read acrticles and fanposts from teams that do start rookies ( Bulls , Hawks, Suns in particular) you'll figure what they have in common. Top 3 worst record in nba. And all of them want their rookies to GTFO from starting lineup because they are getting waxed on both ends on daily bases.

Hawks fans want Trae in G league due his incredible sucking ,with net rating of - 16 and by having the worst Defensive plus minus in whole league.

Suns asking why da F they drafted heartless goon that freaks out about video games but could not care less if some 5'9 midget scores layup on his a** all night long.

Is Bamba going to be a star in your opinion?

[pepe1991]

This notion that Magic are ruining Bamba because they don't start him has to stop. It's simply big fat lie.
IF you read acrticles and fanposts from teams that do start rookies ( Bulls , Hawks, Suns in particular) you'll figure what they have in common. Top 3 worst record in nba. And all of them want their rookies to GTFO from starting lineup because they are getting waxed on both ends on daily bases.

Hawks fans want Trae in G league due his incredible sucking ,with net rating of - 16 and by having the worst Defensive plus minus in whole league.

Suns asking why da F they drafted heartless goon that freaks out about video games but could not care less if some 5'9 midget scores layup on his a** all night long.

Is Bamba going to be a star in your opinion?

Maybe ,but not this year , and probably not next.
It also depends what's new trend for big men. Gobert or Jokić type players.

We kind a already moving away from rim running shotblocking Cs and we see return of post scoring.

[JF5]

A hope in a future is better than no hope in the future.

You're hopeless... Honestly this team was never going to go full tank, ever... They've barely done it before and they won't do it now... With Martins heading this organization and wanting to sell a respectable product to the locals and tourist abroad that option is not something that they'd fully embrace.

On top of that with this team winning, having a couple of young pieces, and having a Star Caliber player with great coach/cultures it makes this market a lot more attractable to star free-agents. I don't know about you but I'm tired of waiting 3-5 years for players to develop into players that they might never become. On top of that if the Magic can't get a draft pick where they could fill a need you just end up with another log jam at specific positions. Say if this team at the 4th-5th position (Which has been the case for the previous 4-5 years) in the draft and was forced to draft BPA and it ends up being a SF/PF or C. You're forced to trade AG/Issac/Bamba or the other prospects values are depressed and you're in a never ending cycle of having good young talent and trading them away for pennies on the dollar (Like Oladipo and Harris).

I get it, you don't like Vucevic... But if a team has the pieces to be relevant NOW then you have to go for it. There is just no guarantee that these young guys will be the Stars that you project them to be. Especially with this organizations luck has been the last few years.

I am hopeless... I am very hopeless in my belief that we are building a legitimate championship contender.

Be real with yourself. We're hovering around .500. Hardly the lure to get a superstar. It feels dumb even thinking Durant or Leonard would look at us. Especially AFTER we give Vuc his big pay day. lol

This team could land a star via trade while simultaneously clearing the books and you could get potentially get a Durant/Kawhi or a Kemba/Klay through Free-Agency if you have a 2-Star combo like a Beal or Wall/Vucevic in place. IF the right moves are made you can have a potential "Big-3" in Orlando.

With Weltman/Hammond having the experience as opposed to Hennigan I believe it can happen.

[VFX]

You're hopeless... Honestly this team was never going to go full tank, ever... They've barely done it before and they won't do it now... With Martins heading this organization and wanting to sell a respectable product to the locals and tourist abroad that option is not something that they'd fully embrace.

On top of that with this team winning, having a couple of young pieces, and having a Star Caliber player with great coach/cultures it makes this market a lot more attractable to star free-agents. I don't know about you but I'm tired of waiting 3-5 years for players to develop into players that they might never become. On top of that if the Magic can't get a draft pick where they could fill a need you just end up with another log jam at specific positions. Say if this team at the 4th-5th position (Which has been the case for the previous 4-5 years) in the draft and was forced to draft BPA and it ends up being a SF/PF or C. You're forced to trade AG/Issac/Bamba or the other prospects values are depressed and you're in a never ending cycle of having good young talent and trading them away for pennies on the dollar (Like Oladipo and Harris).

I get it, you don't like Vucevic... But if a team has the pieces to be relevant NOW then you have to go for it. There is just no guarantee that these young guys will be the Stars that you project them to be. Especially with this organizations luck has been the last few years.

I am hopeless... I am very hopeless in my belief that we are building a legitimate championship contender.

Be real with yourself. We're hovering around .500. Hardly the lure to get a superstar. It feels dumb even thinking Durant or Leonard would look at us. Especially AFTER we give Vuc his big pay day. lol

This team could land a star via trade while simultaneously clearing the books and you could get potentially get a Durant/Kawhi or a Kemba/Klay through Free-Agency if you have a 2-Star combo like a Beal or Wall/Vucevic in place. IF the right moves are made you can have a potential "Big-3" in Orlando.

With Weltman/Hammond having the experience as opposed to Hennigan I believe it can happen.

No. Not happening. Orlando has to prove they are a contender first before getting an elite top 10 player.

[Knightro]

Is Bamba going to be a star in your opinion?

I think Bamba has the potential to be an excellent big man in the modern NBA. In theory he's a player who should become a rim running lob threat out of pick and roll while simultaneously being a pick and pop threat all the way out beyond the three point line. This is a very rare offensive skill set.

Combine that with the fact that he already appears to be a solid rebounder and - with that wing span and mobility combo - a guy who should be able protect the rim defensively at a high level and you have a really good and really modern two-way big.

I am highly confident he's going to continue to put in the work on his body and skills. He already has a feathery touch on his jumper and he can already win battles defensively on his physical gifts alone.

My biggest concern with Bamba by a significant margin is his motor. It appears to be severely lacking. There are just far too many instances where he looks like he isn't trying hard.

I can understand the NBA game is a lot faster than college and his head is still probably spinning on what he needs to do and where he needs to be, but effort is effort and he just appears to not give enough of it right now.

Plenty of time for him to figure it out, but that's my biggest red flag on Mo right now.