GT #25: Wizards @ Hawks

[queridiculo]

Had to miss the game. Have it saved, perhaps I'll watch it this weekend (minus the 3rd quarter apparantly). Gotta love the "everybody eats" games!

The 3rd quarter was fine, just ignore the final 3 minutes and change , or if you're gluton for punishment, just watch those 3 minutes, plus the first 2 minutes of the first quarter.

[queridiculo]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

The John Wall jump: 19.1 points per 100 possessions

Let’s talk Wall awkwardness for a bit.

The Wizards have been 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Wall on the bench this season. And if someone had to simplify the team’s success during the 9-5 run into one number, the above stat might be it.

Wall missed Wednesday’s 14-point win in Atlanta for personal reasons. And it turns out, that margin of victory isn’t so rare when he’s not on the floor. Washington has gotten outscored by 6.4 points per 100 possessions when Wall is on the floor over the last 14 games. Meanwhile, it’s outscoring opponents by 12.7 points per 100 when he’s on the bench.

That’s an unfathomable 19.1 point-per-100 difference.

The phenomenon is occurring on both sides of the floor. The Wizards are 12 points per 100 more efficient on offense and seven per 100 better on defense when Wall’s not playing.

They shoot five percentage points better with Wall on the bench. Mid-range attempts plummet from more than 17 per 48 minutes to less than 10 when he’s not there. The long 2s turn into more 3s and layups. Washington gets to the line more, too. It’s not just that lineups with Tomas Satoransky as the sole creator are dominating, either.

For the season, when Bradley Beal is on the floor with Wall, the Wizards get outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Beal is playing without his five-time All-Star point guard teammate, the Wizards are 8.1 points per 100 better than opponents.

Some of these numbers are just noise. The bench lineup has been far better on the boards than the starters have and that’s less Wall’s fault than it is four other guys’. But the drop-off when Wall is present has become difficult to ignore.

79.1 offensive efficiency

First, a necessary statement: Going one-on-one isn’t always bad.

Basketball fans have this tendency to see isolation play and immediately demean it. We’re trained to believe that squaring up an individual defender is the antithesis to effective scoring, a self-inflicting move the worst offenses turn to for shots. But that’s not always true.

The Rockets, for example, are averaging far more isolation possessions than any other team for a second straight season, per Synergy Sports, but they do selfish unselfishly. Their offense is better off with one-on-one play (partly because reigning MVP James Harden is the NBA’s most efficient iso performer). But the team that sits second in isolation possessions has a problem.

That would be the Wizards, who are 23rd in the NBA in isolation efficiency in spite of their high volume. Much of that is on Wall, who is averaging the second-most iso possessions a game to Harden. Yet, the Wizards average only 79.1 points per 100 possessions on plays that end in shots, passes or turnovers out of his isolations, per Synergy.

For perspective, the worst offense of the last 20 years, belonging to the unforgettable 2003 Nuggets, scored 91.2 points per 100.

A star perimeter player’s isolation numbers are always at risk of bogging down. Guys like Wall receive loads of end-of-clock opportunities. Difficult shots go in less and the best players, no matter what, have to take more difficult shots. Still, of the 24 players averaging more than three isolation possessions a game, per Synergy, Wall ranks exactly 24th in this stat.

He still regularly goes through the one-on-one motions early in the clock. But he doesn’t need to do it.

[Jaekast]

An "everyone eats game" foretold by the Polish prophet Gortat.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

The John Wall jump: 19.1 points per 100 possessions

Let’s talk Wall awkwardness for a bit.

The Wizards have been 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Wall on the bench this season. And if someone had to simplify the team’s success during the 9-5 run into one number, the above stat might be it.

Wall missed Wednesday’s 14-point win in Atlanta for personal reasons. And it turns out, that margin of victory isn’t so rare when he’s not on the floor. Washington has gotten outscored by 6.4 points per 100 possessions when Wall is on the floor over the last 14 games. Meanwhile, it’s outscoring opponents by 12.7 points per 100 when he’s on the bench.

That’s an unfathomable 19.1 point-per-100 difference.

The phenomenon is occurring on both sides of the floor. The Wizards are 12 points per 100 more efficient on offense and seven per 100 better on defense when Wall’s not playing.

They shoot five percentage points better with Wall on the bench. Mid-range attempts plummet from more than 17 per 48 minutes to less than 10 when he’s not there. The long 2s turn into more 3s and layups. Washington gets to the line more, too. It’s not just that lineups with Tomas Satoransky as the sole creator are dominating, either.

For the season, when Bradley Beal is on the floor with Wall, the Wizards get outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Beal is playing without his five-time All-Star point guard teammate, the Wizards are 8.1 points per 100 better than opponents.

Some of these numbers are just noise. The bench lineup has been far better on the boards than the starters have and that’s less Wall’s fault than it is four other guys’. But the drop-off when Wall is present has become difficult to ignore.

79.1 offensive efficiency

First, a necessary statement: Going one-on-one isn’t always bad.

Basketball fans have this tendency to see isolation play and immediately demean it. We’re trained to believe that squaring up an individual defender is the antithesis to effective scoring, a self-inflicting move the worst offenses turn to for shots. But that’s not always true.

The Rockets, for example, are averaging far more isolation possessions than any other team for a second straight season, per Synergy Sports, but they do selfish unselfishly. Their offense is better off with one-on-one play (partly because reigning MVP James Harden is the NBA’s most efficient iso performer). But the team that sits second in isolation possessions has a problem.

That would be the Wizards, who are 23rd in the NBA in isolation efficiency in spite of their high volume. Much of that is on Wall, who is averaging the second-most iso possessions a game to Harden. Yet, the Wizards average only 79.1 points per 100 possessions on plays that end in shots, passes or turnovers out of his isolations, per Synergy.

For perspective, the worst offense of the last 20 years, belonging to the unforgettable 2003 Nuggets, scored 91.2 points per 100.

A star perimeter player’s isolation numbers are always at risk of bogging down. Guys like Wall receive loads of end-of-clock opportunities. Difficult shots go in less and the best players, no matter what, have to take more difficult shots. Still, of the 24 players averaging more than three isolation possessions a game, per Synergy, Wall ranks exactly 24th in this stat.

He still regularly goes through the one-on-one motions early in the clock. But he doesn’t need to do it.

Wow, that really puts it into perspective! I know we all see the same things, although some refuse to admit it. I'm gonna hope it is small sample size problem, because his on/off #s have never been this bad.
Things NEED to change and it starts with Terd firing EG or selling the team, because I don't think EG has the balls to trade John.

[nate33]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

The John Wall jump: 19.1 points per 100 possessions

Let’s talk Wall awkwardness for a bit.

The Wizards have been 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Wall on the bench this season. And if someone had to simplify the team’s success during the 9-5 run into one number, the above stat might be it.

Wall missed Wednesday’s 14-point win in Atlanta for personal reasons. And it turns out, that margin of victory isn’t so rare when he’s not on the floor. Washington has gotten outscored by 6.4 points per 100 possessions when Wall is on the floor over the last 14 games. Meanwhile, it’s outscoring opponents by 12.7 points per 100 when he’s on the bench.

That’s an unfathomable 19.1 point-per-100 difference.

The phenomenon is occurring on both sides of the floor. The Wizards are 12 points per 100 more efficient on offense and seven per 100 better on defense when Wall’s not playing.

They shoot five percentage points better with Wall on the bench. Mid-range attempts plummet from more than 17 per 48 minutes to less than 10 when he’s not there. The long 2s turn into more 3s and layups. Washington gets to the line more, too. It’s not just that lineups with Tomas Satoransky as the sole creator are dominating, either.

For the season, when Bradley Beal is on the floor with Wall, the Wizards get outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Beal is playing without his five-time All-Star point guard teammate, the Wizards are 8.1 points per 100 better than opponents.

Some of these numbers are just noise. The bench lineup has been far better on the boards than the starters have and that’s less Wall’s fault than it is four other guys’. But the drop-off when Wall is present has become difficult to ignore.

79.1 offensive efficiency

First, a necessary statement: Going one-on-one isn’t always bad.

Basketball fans have this tendency to see isolation play and immediately demean it. We’re trained to believe that squaring up an individual defender is the antithesis to effective scoring, a self-inflicting move the worst offenses turn to for shots. But that’s not always true.

The Rockets, for example, are averaging far more isolation possessions than any other team for a second straight season, per Synergy Sports, but they do selfish unselfishly. Their offense is better off with one-on-one play (partly because reigning MVP James Harden is the NBA’s most efficient iso performer). But the team that sits second in isolation possessions has a problem.

That would be the Wizards, who are 23rd in the NBA in isolation efficiency in spite of their high volume. Much of that is on Wall, who is averaging the second-most iso possessions a game to Harden. Yet, the Wizards average only 79.1 points per 100 possessions on plays that end in shots, passes or turnovers out of his isolations, per Synergy.

For perspective, the worst offense of the last 20 years, belonging to the unforgettable 2003 Nuggets, scored 91.2 points per 100.

A star perimeter player’s isolation numbers are always at risk of bogging down. Guys like Wall receive loads of end-of-clock opportunities. Difficult shots go in less and the best players, no matter what, have to take more difficult shots. Still, of the 24 players averaging more than three isolation possessions a game, per Synergy, Wall ranks exactly 24th in this stat.

He still regularly goes through the one-on-one motions early in the clock. But he doesn’t need to do it.

Brutal.

To be fair though, we saw much of this during the "everyone eats" phase last year. Better ball movement led to a lot more easy shots and a more distributed offense, which helped motivate everyone defensively. However, teams eventually scouted us and the easy shots became more infrequent. By the time Wall got back, we really needed him. And we certainly needed him in the playoffs. (It probably helped that Wall was extra motivated to play hard after seeing that the team wasn't so dependent on him.)

The point is, Wall is very talented, and we need that talent when defenses tighten up. But Wall has to find a way to blend his talents within the team concept much better. That means doing more work off the ball, making back cuts, playing better defense. And he should have the energy to do these things because the team no longer needs to run every possession through him.

I think Wall is having trouble adjusting to positionless basketball. Two years ago, most teams ran their offense through their PG (or a ball dominant point forward). Wall was great in that role, a 2nd team All NBA player. But the game is changing and Wall isn't adjusting.

[queridiculo]

Those iso stats are absolutely brutal without context, but not surprising when you consider the awful possessions we typically have in late shotclock situations out of timeouts, and end of games or quarters.

They go into more depth on the defensive deficiencies in Wall's game, something we've been lamenting for quite some time here, specifically with respect to his defense in pick and roll situations.

28.9 percent opponent free-throw rate
The Wizards aren’t so bad on defense — in some areas. Thanks to the cushy recent schedule, they’ve made an historic leap all the way into a tie for … 25th in points allowed per possession after meandering at 29th for a bit.

What a ride it was. Their defensive efficiency is closer to 19th than 29th now.

Don’t get too excited. They could still easily be in 29th in, like, two games. Washington still can’t stop ball-handlers.

It’s the first checkpoint whenever a reporter asks Brooks about defensive problems. He uses some form of “stop,” “handle” or “contain.” He’ll toss in a phrase about how the Wizards don’t seal off other teams at the “point of attack.” Some of this is on Wall’s screen-deferring defense. Other are on lack of defensive communication from big men, whether the inexperienced Thomas Bryant or veteran Markieff Morris. It’s on slow rotations from the outside. Oubre or Beal have been culprits.

But when defenses don’t contain at the point of attack, they’re more frantic. And when they’re more frantic, they foul.

The Wizards are 24th in the NBA in opponent free-throw rate. Six of the 10 teams in the bottom 10 in that stat are also bottom 10 in defensive efficiency.

[dckingsfan]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

The John Wall jump: 19.1 points per 100 possessions

Let’s talk Wall awkwardness for a bit.

The Wizards have been 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Wall on the bench this season. And if someone had to simplify the team’s success during the 9-5 run into one number, the above stat might be it.

Wall missed Wednesday’s 14-point win in Atlanta for personal reasons. And it turns out, that margin of victory isn’t so rare when he’s not on the floor. Washington has gotten outscored by 6.4 points per 100 possessions when Wall is on the floor over the last 14 games. Meanwhile, it’s outscoring opponents by 12.7 points per 100 when he’s on the bench.

That’s an unfathomable 19.1 point-per-100 difference.

The phenomenon is occurring on both sides of the floor. The Wizards are 12 points per 100 more efficient on offense and seven per 100 better on defense when Wall’s not playing.

They shoot five percentage points better with Wall on the bench. Mid-range attempts plummet from more than 17 per 48 minutes to less than 10 when he’s not there. The long 2s turn into more 3s and layups. Washington gets to the line more, too. It’s not just that lineups with Tomas Satoransky as the sole creator are dominating, either.

For the season, when Bradley Beal is on the floor with Wall, the Wizards get outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Beal is playing without his five-time All-Star point guard teammate, the Wizards are 8.1 points per 100 better than opponents.

Some of these numbers are just noise. The bench lineup has been far better on the boards than the starters have and that’s less Wall’s fault than it is four other guys’. But the drop-off when Wall is present has become difficult to ignore.

79.1 offensive efficiency

First, a necessary statement: Going one-on-one isn’t always bad.

Basketball fans have this tendency to see isolation play and immediately demean it. We’re trained to believe that squaring up an individual defender is the antithesis to effective scoring, a self-inflicting move the worst offenses turn to for shots. But that’s not always true.

The Rockets, for example, are averaging far more isolation possessions than any other team for a second straight season, per Synergy Sports, but they do selfish unselfishly. Their offense is better off with one-on-one play (partly because reigning MVP James Harden is the NBA’s most efficient iso performer). But the team that sits second in isolation possessions has a problem.

That would be the Wizards, who are 23rd in the NBA in isolation efficiency in spite of their high volume. Much of that is on Wall, who is averaging the second-most iso possessions a game to Harden. Yet, the Wizards average only 79.1 points per 100 possessions on plays that end in shots, passes or turnovers out of his isolations, per Synergy.

For perspective, the worst offense of the last 20 years, belonging to the unforgettable 2003 Nuggets, scored 91.2 points per 100.

A star perimeter player’s isolation numbers are always at risk of bogging down. Guys like Wall receive loads of end-of-clock opportunities. Difficult shots go in less and the best players, no matter what, have to take more difficult shots. Still, of the 24 players averaging more than three isolation possessions a game, per Synergy, Wall ranks exactly 24th in this stat.

He still regularly goes through the one-on-one motions early in the clock. But he doesn’t need to do it.

Brutal.

To be fair though, we saw much of this during the "everyone eats" phase last year. Better ball movement led to a lot more easy shots and a more distributed offense, which helped motivate everyone defensively. However, teams eventually scouted us and the easy shots became more infrequent. By the time Wall got back, we really needed him. And we certainly needed him in the playoffs. (It probably helped that Wall was extra motivated to play hard after seeing that the team wasn't so dependent on him.)

The point is, Wall is very talented, and we need that talent when defenses tighten up. But Wall has to find a way to blend his talents within the team concept much better. That means doing more work off the ball, making back cuts, playing better defense. And he should have the energy to do these things because the team no longer needs to run every possession through him.

I think Wall is having trouble adjusting to positionless basketball. Two years ago, most teams ran their offense through their PG (or a ball dominant point forward). Wall was great in that role, a 2nd team All NBA player. But the game is changing and Wall isn't adjusting.

This. Not only is he not adjusting he is pouting (no calls) and standing around when he is off ball. He really needs a change of scenery. Playing with LeBron would make a ton of sense if he could make the leap.

[queridiculo]

A change of scenery isn't necessarily the answer, but at some point he needs to have a come to Jesus moment and see that he's hurting the team with some of his decision making.

Wall is a really good player and well overpaid come next season, but he's not a hopeless case, but to be clear, it's also not like this is something new.

Coaching to me plays a large role here, either Brooks doesn't see it, or he hasn't managed to get through to him.

[DCZards]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

The John Wall jump: 19.1 points per 100 possessions

Let’s talk Wall awkwardness for a bit.

The Wizards have been 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Wall on the bench this season. And if someone had to simplify the team’s success during the 9-5 run into one number, the above stat might be it.

Wall missed Wednesday’s 14-point win in Atlanta for personal reasons. And it turns out, that margin of victory isn’t so rare when he’s not on the floor. Washington has gotten outscored by 6.4 points per 100 possessions when Wall is on the floor over the last 14 games. Meanwhile, it’s outscoring opponents by 12.7 points per 100 when he’s on the bench.

That’s an unfathomable 19.1 point-per-100 difference.

The phenomenon is occurring on both sides of the floor. The Wizards are 12 points per 100 more efficient on offense and seven per 100 better on defense when Wall’s not playing.

They shoot five percentage points better with Wall on the bench. Mid-range attempts plummet from more than 17 per 48 minutes to less than 10 when he’s not there. The long 2s turn into more 3s and layups. Washington gets to the line more, too. It’s not just that lineups with Tomas Satoransky as the sole creator are dominating, either.

For the season, when Bradley Beal is on the floor with Wall, the Wizards get outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Beal is playing without his five-time All-Star point guard teammate, the Wizards are 8.1 points per 100 better than opponents.

Some of these numbers are just noise. The bench lineup has been far better on the boards than the starters have and that’s less Wall’s fault than it is four other guys’. But the drop-off when Wall is present has become difficult to ignore.

79.1 offensive efficiency

First, a necessary statement: Going one-on-one isn’t always bad.

Basketball fans have this tendency to see isolation play and immediately demean it. We’re trained to believe that squaring up an individual defender is the antithesis to effective scoring, a self-inflicting move the worst offenses turn to for shots. But that’s not always true.

The Rockets, for example, are averaging far more isolation possessions than any other team for a second straight season, per Synergy Sports, but they do selfish unselfishly. Their offense is better off with one-on-one play (partly because reigning MVP James Harden is the NBA’s most efficient iso performer). But the team that sits second in isolation possessions has a problem.

That would be the Wizards, who are 23rd in the NBA in isolation efficiency in spite of their high volume. Much of that is on Wall, who is averaging the second-most iso possessions a game to Harden. Yet, the Wizards average only 79.1 points per 100 possessions on plays that end in shots, passes or turnovers out of his isolations, per Synergy.

For perspective, the worst offense of the last 20 years, belonging to the unforgettable 2003 Nuggets, scored 91.2 points per 100.

A star perimeter player’s isolation numbers are always at risk of bogging down. Guys like Wall receive loads of end-of-clock opportunities. Difficult shots go in less and the best players, no matter what, have to take more difficult shots. Still, of the 24 players averaging more than three isolation possessions a game, per Synergy, Wall ranks exactly 24th in this stat.

He still regularly goes through the one-on-one motions early in the clock. But he doesn’t need to do it.

Brutal.

To be fair though, we saw much of this during the "everyone eats" phase last year. Better ball movement led to a lot more easy shots and a more distributed offense, which helped motivate everyone defensively. However, teams eventually scouted us and the easy shots became more infrequent. By the time Wall got back, we really needed him. And we certainly needed him in the playoffs. (It probably helped that Wall was extra motivated to play hard after seeing that the team wasn't so dependent on him.)

The point is, Wall is very talented, and we need that talent when defenses tighten up. But Wall has to find a way to blend his talents within the team concept much better. That means doing more work off the ball, making back cuts, playing better defense. And he should have the energy to do these things because the team no longer needs to run every possession through him.

I think Wall is having trouble adjusting to positionless basketball. Two years ago, most teams ran their offense through their PG (or a ball dominant point forward). Wall was great in that role, a 2nd team All NBA player. But the game is changing and Wall isn't adjusting.

Good analysis, Nate. We all knew that John was one of the top iso guys in the league (#2 as it turns out), but it's disheartening to learn exactly how much that hurts the team. But, as you point out, Wall is an immensely talented player and we need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. John still has a very desirable skillset.

One can only hope that the Zards FO and coaches (as well as Wall) also see this data/analytics and recognize that this team needs to play a very different way offensively if it's going to be successful. Both the Zards and Wall need to make the changes and adjustments you point out...and stop pretending that John is Hardenesque when it comes to iso plays, because he's not even close.

[dckingsfan]

A change of scenery isn't necessarily the answer, but at some point he needs to have a come to Jesus moment and see that he's hurting the team with some of his decision making.

Wall is a really good player and well overpaid come next season, but he's not a hopeless case, but to be clear, it's also not like this is something new.

Coaching to me plays a large role here, either Brooks doesn't see it, or he hasn't managed to get through to him.

I think that there is a near to zero probability that he changes in this current environment with this FO, this coaching staff and this group of players.

I think a change of scenery is exactly what is called for both for the sake of the Wizards and for Wall. I think Lebron would be a voice to which he would listen.

[Shanghai Kid]

My thing is, what was Wall doing differently in 2017? I believe the team was top 10 in the league in assists per game and Beal and Porter were both over 60% TS. That seemed to be a top 10 Everybody Eats style offense that prominently featured John. Infact most of us at that point would have considered John a really high IQ player on offense and one of the best facilitators in the league.

How good would have the 2017 team team have been with a better bench and better defense? Do they beat Boston and make the ECF?

Also, how was the Wall led offense able to take #1 Toronto seed to 6 games last year? The Wiz had a 5 point lead in the 2nd half of both games 5 and 6. They actually could have very easy beat the #1 seed with John leading the way.

Has the league changed that much or has Wall changed?

I mean there is no denying the stats or defending Wall this season. The team clearly seems to play harder and move the ball more when Wall is not in the game. But does that mean that they aren't capable of playing that way with John in the game? Is it a psychological thing or a coaching thing or just all based on Wall's weaknesses?

[trast66]

Agree with those who suggest coaching plays into John’s and teams diminished performance. I don’t think we have changed anything except “shoot more threes” and we are really bad at hitting open 3’s thus far. League figured us out to an extent. And terrible defense compliments terrible offense and vice versa. Not defending Johns performance or effort, but there has to be a bad/mediocre coaching component to his fall off. Also probably a “mental” element to this season as well. Despite their previous bravado, these guys know their ceiling is a first round exit with current coach/GM. They have farted around for a quarter of the season and almost an 8 seed. They could leave their hearts and souls out there and be a 6 seed, what’s the motivation (other than being a professional).

It’s nice when numbers back up what you are seeing, though every player and coach’s performance influences other players numbers.

[ClutchDJ]

Read on Twitter

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Read on Twitter

Well, I did count six passes. That is a full 1.5 passes per quarter.

[Ruzious]

Had to miss the game. Have it saved, perhaps I'll watch it this weekend (minus the 3rd quarter apparantly). Gotta love the "everybody eats" games!

The 3rd quarter was fine, just ignore the final 3 minutes and change , or if you're gluton for punishment, just watch those 3 minutes, plus the first 2 minutes of the first quarter.

Those minutes were the "everyone barfs" period.

[dckingsfan]

My thing is, what was Wall doing differently in 2017? I believe the team was top 10 in the league in assists per game and Beal and Porter were both over 60% TS. That seemed to be a top 10 Everybody Eats style offense that prominently featured John. Infact most of us at that point would have considered John a really high IQ player on offense and one of the best facilitators in the league.

How good would have the 2017 team team have been with a better bench and better defense? Do they beat Boston and make the ECF?

Also, how was the Wall led offense able to take #1 Toronto seed to 6 games last year? The Wiz had a 5 point lead in the 2nd half of both games 5 and 6. They actually could have very easy beat the #1 seed with John leading the way.

Has the league changed that much or has Wall changed?

I mean there is no denying the stats or defending Wall this season. The team clearly seems to play harder and move the ball more when Wall is not in the game. But does that mean that they aren't capable of playing that way with John in the game? Is it a psychological thing or a coaching thing or just all based on Wall's weaknesses?

First, Wall's most productive season was 16-17 and now 2 years later, he seems to have diminished physically and is detached emotionally add to that - this might be the wrong system for him.

On offense, his TO% is down but so is his rebounding, 3Pt percentage and TS%. In short, he is just not as efficient.

His defense is also markedly worse. He was really good until last season. It might be that his knees won't allow the lateral defense or that he is playing too many minutes and is gassed.

Either way, from top 5 PG in he L to barely top 1/2. Curry, Lillard, Bledsoe, Irving, Lowry, Westbrook, Walkers, Conley, Fox, Collison, Paul are all playing better than him right now (and others).

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

I didn't think it was that bad. Yeah, the kid likes to shoot, but most of the shots were square looks at 3 or aggressive drives to the lane. He made a couple of passes too. I counted one ill-advised shot where he rushed a 3 when someone else was more open, and one ill-advised drive where he drove into the teeth of the defense and ended up turning it over. Other than that, the shots were fine.

It's basically what I would expect out of a role player "finisher". And that's what Oubre is. He's not a decision maker at this stage of his career.

[Kanyewest]

My thing is, what was Wall doing differently in 2017? I believe the team was top 10 in the league in assists per game and Beal and Porter were both over 60% TS. That seemed to be a top 10 Everybody Eats style offense that prominently featured John. Infact most of us at that point would have considered John a really high IQ player on offense and one of the best facilitators in the league.

How good would have the 2017 team team have been with a better bench and better defense? Do they beat Boston and make the ECF?

Also, how was the Wall led offense able to take #1 Toronto seed to 6 games last year? The Wiz had a 5 point lead in the 2nd half of both games 5 and 6. They actually could have very easy beat the #1 seed with John leading the way.

Has the league changed that much or has Wall changed?

I mean there is no denying the stats or defending Wall this season. The team clearly seems to play harder and move the ball more when Wall is not in the game. But does that mean that they aren't capable of playing that way with John in the game? Is it a psychological thing or a coaching thing or just all based on Wall's weaknesses?

First, Wall's most productive season was 16-17 and now 2 years later, he seems to have diminished physically and is detached emotionally add to that - this might be the wrong system for him.

On offense, his TO% is down but so is his rebounding, 3Pt percentage and TS%. In short, he is just not as efficient.

His defense is also markedly worse. He was really good until last season. It might be that his knees won't allow the lateral defense or that he is playing too many minutes and is gassed.

Either way, from top 5 PG in he L to barely top 1/2. Curry, Lillard, Bledsoe, Irving, Lowry, Westbrook, Walkers, Conley, Fox, Collison, Paul are all playing better than him right now (and others).

I have heard players like Gilbert Arenas talking about after his knee surgery he could still run at his top speed but when he tried to jog, he would tend to limp. Wall also tends to expend a lot of energy driving throughout the game and may have developed some bad habits along the way to conserve energy. And a bigger thing is that is harder to play in the NBA as compared to 5 years ago plus someone like Nene and even Gortat were better defenders that may have hid Wall's deficiencies.

That being said, Wall would probably benefit most from an improved 3 point shot, something most of the guys you mentioned above have developed, other than Westbrook, who may not be a good defender but is an elite defensive rebounder that has better defenders around him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Couldn't think of an appropriate thread for this, so I'll just share this here.

https://theathletic.com/698847/2018/12/06/the-10-stats-that-have-defined-the-wizards-season

It's paywalled so but two key stats that stood out to me:

Brutal.

To be fair though, we saw much of this during the "everyone eats" phase last year. Better ball movement led to a lot more easy shots and a more distributed offense, which helped motivate everyone defensively. However, teams eventually scouted us and the easy shots became more infrequent. By the time Wall got back, we really needed him. And we certainly needed him in the playoffs. (It probably helped that Wall was extra motivated to play hard after seeing that the team wasn't so dependent on him.)

The point is, Wall is very talented, and we need that talent when defenses tighten up. But Wall has to find a way to blend his talents within the team concept much better. That means doing more work off the ball, making back cuts, playing better defense. And he should have the energy to do these things because the team no longer needs to run every possession through him.

I think Wall is having trouble adjusting to positionless basketball. Two years ago, most teams ran their offense through their PG (or a ball dominant point forward). Wall was great in that role, a 2nd team All NBA player. But the game is changing and Wall isn't adjusting.

This. Not only is he not adjusting he is pouting (no calls) and standing around when he is off ball. He really needs a change of scenery. Playing with LeBron would make a ton of sense if he could make the leap.

Three-way deal to send Wall to Houston and Paul to the Lakers.

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