Time To Change Our Tune?

[esqtvd]

You both are kind of right. Wining is often attractive to upcoming FA but its not the only factor. Some guys just follow the $$$. Some guys seek the spotlight of NY or LA. Some guys would hate to bring their kids up in NYC. Some guys want to be DA MAN so they will leave winning teams.

For a max player, they're going to get their money wherever they go so that's not a factor. As for LeBron, his first move to Miami was to win, joining a champion [Wade] and a future champion [Bosh]. As for his move to the Lakers [specifically the city of Los Angeles] at age 33--34 in December--sui generis.

FAs join crap teams? Not really. Certainly not because they have the 15th or 17th pick in the draft, BFD. The pick was the actual topic--now we're into spaghetti on the wall. There isn't even a point here anymore.

[Galloisdaman]

You both are kind of right. Wining is often attractive to upcoming FA but its not the only factor. Some guys just follow the $$$. Some guys seek the spotlight of NY or LA. Some guys would hate to bring their kids up in NYC. Some guys want to be DA MAN so they will leave winning teams.

For a max player, they're going to get their money wherever they go so that's not a factor. As for LeBron, his first move to Miami was to win, joining a champion [Wade] and a future champion [Bosh]. As for his move to the Lakers [specifically the city of Los Angeles] at age 33--34 in December--sui generis.

FAs join crap teams? Not really. Certainly not because they have the 15th or 17th pick in the draft, BFD. The pick was the actual topic--now we're into spaghetti on the wall. There isn't even a point here anymore.

Melo not only was going to get his money as a FA in Denver but he pushed to get a trade to the Knicks (not a real winning team) so he could get an extra year of max money. He wanted to be in NY and only NY not a team that gave him the best chance to win. I agree with you that winning is attractive to many FA but its not everything to every player. These are individuals. While you may be right about many of todays players there will always be exceptions since they are individuals. In a different pro sport a wife at a party said that her husband does not get upset if they lose. That they get paid the same win or loss.

[esqtvd]

You both are kind of right. Wining is often attractive to upcoming FA but its not the only factor. Some guys just follow the $$$. Some guys seek the spotlight of NY or LA. Some guys would hate to bring their kids up in NYC. Some guys want to be DA MAN so they will leave winning teams.

For a max player, they're going to get their money wherever they go so that's not a factor. As for LeBron, his first move to Miami was to win, joining a champion [Wade] and a future champion [Bosh]. As for his move to the Lakers [specifically the city of Los Angeles] at age 33--34 in December--sui generis.

FAs join crap teams? Not really. Certainly not because they have the 15th or 17th pick in the draft, BFD. The pick was the actual topic--now we're into spaghetti on the wall. There isn't even a point here anymore.

Melo not only was going to get his money as a FA in Denver but he pushed to get a trade to the Knicks (not a real winning team) so he could get an extra year of max money. He wanted to be in NY and only NY not a team that gave him the best chance to win. I agree with you that winning is attractive to many FA but its not everything to every player. These are individuals. While you may be right about many of todays players there will always be exceptions since they are individuals. In a different pro sport a wife at a party said that her husband does not get upset if they lose. That they get paid the same win or loss.

Melo still got his dough and his All-Star appearances in NY but he also got away from George Karl, who had the audacity to ask him to play some defense. And yes, Kawhi might leave a very good team in Toronto for a lesser team in the Clippers just to be in LA. [We hope so!] But it's stupid for a team to do business that way. You maximize your product's quality when you're trying to get someone to buy it.

You can always argue the exception against the rule, like with a dog like Melo, who apparently didn't value winning. But would Durant--a true champion--have joined a crap team instead of GSW? No way.

[Quake Griffin]

You both are kind of right. Wining is often attractive to upcoming FA but its not the only factor. Some guys just follow the $$$. Some guys seek the spotlight of NY or LA. Some guys would hate to bring their kids up in NYC. Some guys want to be DA MAN so they will leave winning teams.

For a max player, they're going to get their money wherever they go so that's not a factor. As for LeBron, his first move to Miami was to win, joining a champion [Wade] and a future champion [Bosh]. As for his move to the Lakers [specifically the city of Los Angeles] at age 33--34 in December--sui generis.

FAs join crap teams? Not really. Certainly not because they have the 15th or 17th pick in the draft, BFD. The pick was the actual topic--now we're into spaghetti on the wall. There isn't even a point here anymore.

Melo not only was going to get his money as a FA in Denver but he pushed to get a trade to the Knicks (not a real winning team) so he could get an extra year of max money. He wanted to be in NY and only NY not a team that gave him the best chance to win. I agree with you that winning is attractive to many FA but its not everything to every player. These are individuals. While you may be right about many of todays players there will always be exceptions since they are individuals. In a different pro sport a wife at a party said that her husband does not get upset if they lose. That they get paid the same win or loss.

Since you brought up players who have angled their way places via trade. You also have Chris Paul who opted into the 2nd year of the last 2 years of his deal to agree with Neil Oshey (basically) to be traded to the 32-50 Clippers.

^^^^
Another player angling and maneuvering to get to a losing team.
Why? Because [again] Free Agents/ players are smart. They have agents, camps, family, and they watch the league. They bet on themselves, rosters, coaches, and FOs....mlt W/L records. It happens more than enough to not be the exception to the rule.
_______________________
Imagine arguing that you don’t use the exception to the rule and then bringing up a 1st Ballot Undebiable Hall of Famer signing with a 73-9 team.

Can’t make up some of the garbage you read sometimes.


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[Wammy Giveaway]

(cross-post with The Revenge Of The Role Players in General Board)

Read on Twitter

No team in NBA history has ever won a title without an All-Star (...) Hypothetically speaking, if Clips somehow win the title without an All-Star, could it affect their off-season superstar hunt?

{*takes a while to think about it*}

No ... I'll tell you why. I think a superstar will see that, and want to play with that. If you see a team of "role players" win a title, I think that will make you want to play with guys like that because you saw how hard they fought, scratched, clawed, and killed to get that title. It's endearing, and I think a superstar would look at that and be like "I wanna play with those foxhole guys." Those are guys you want in your foxhole when the going gets tough. Kevin Durant would kill for that, Kawhi Leonard would kill for guys like that. Does that mean the Clippers will sign another one, no it does not. I just think that superstars would look at that roster and go "No one counted on those guys to win anything, to even make the playoffs." That team was tabbed to be a 35-win team by Vegas, and you're telling me that team'll win the title... yeah. A superstar player would be like DAMN. They don't take {*censored*} from anybody, and they play hard 48 minutes a night. They don't give up and they don't give in, they just win. And I think a superstar'll love that.

[esqtvd]

{*takes a while to think about it*}

No ... I'll tell you why. I think a superstar will see that, and want to play with that. If you see a team of "role players" win a title, I think that will make you want to play with guys like that because you saw how hard they fought, scratched, clawed, and killed to get that title. It's endearing, and I think a superstar would look at that and be like "I wanna play with those foxhole guys." Those are guys you want in your foxhole when the going gets tough. Kevin Durant would kill for that, Kawhi Leonard would kill for guys like that. Does that mean the Clippers will sign another one, no it does not. I just think that superstars would look at that roster and go "No one counted on those guys to win anything, to even make the playoffs." That team was tabbed to be a 35-win team by Vegas, and you're telling me that team'll win the title... yeah. A superstar player would be like DAMN. They don't take {*censored*} from anybody, and they play hard 48 minutes a night. They don't give up and they don't give in, they just win. And I think a superstar'll love that.

there's no proof of that LOL

[Quake Griffin]

Lost 3 out of 4.
To the Mavs without Doncic. Blown out by the Heat at home.

[Galloisdaman]

Time to go back to paying attention to some basics.
1. Can't win if you don't defend.
2. No rebounds no rings.
3. Need to get to the FT line and make FT.
4. Need a guy at PG that will get guys open shots.
5. Don't just settle for jump shots. Lets post some guys up and milk the bonus situations at the end of quarters.

[Quake Griffin]

Bump

[esqtvd]

same tune as last year

finish 42-40 and miss the playoffs to keep our pick and not lose it to Boston


you still want to keep a winning team and a winning culture
you don't tank and you don't give minutes to kids who don't play right
and turn it into a fustercluck

Doc won't allow it anyway
he don't play that weak sh*t
he will try to win every game


let's see if the FO takes his vets away, LOL


hopefully the problem takes care of itself


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25935392/how-tobias-harris-trade-shakes-nba

5. The race to the bottom of the Western Conference just got easier

This also should clear the path for the No. 8 seed to go to the Los Angeles Lakers, Sacramento Kings or Minnesota Timberwolves. Even if the Clippers might be able to hang in the race without Harris, it's hard to imagine they will stop selling now. And if they do continue to strip away players from the roster, they'll ensure they slip down the standings.

However, the Lakers, Kings and Wolves will all be pushing to make the playoffs. The Lakers are still chasing Anthony Davis but lost by 42 points to the Indiana Pacers on Tuesday. They could be active whether they get Davis or not, and already traded for Reggie Bullock to give them a defensive presence on the wing. The Kings -- the NBA's biggest surprise this season -- would seem to now only be more determined to get a small forward to help stop the league's longest playoff drought. [Great call--they got Harrison Barnes!---TVD]



And while Minnesota suffered a brutal loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday, the Wolves are only 1.5 games behind the Lakers. Make no mistake, either: The Wolves would absolutely love to make the postseason after firing Tom Thibodeau earlier this season.

[QRich3]

you still want to keep a winning team and a winning culture

Do you? I think that's the recipe for mediocrity, excusing yourself with stuff like culture and what the fans want, selling tickets today, etc. All this stuff that looks at what's better today instead of the next decade.

Thankfully this front office is showing they're ambitious and don't care about any of that sentimental stuff. They're all about winning at the highest level, not treading water.

Hopefully they do a couple more trades in that direction today, and buyout whoever is left next week that's not in this team's future plans.

[esqtvd]

you still want to keep a winning team and a winning culture

Do you? I think that's the recipe for mediocrity, excusing yourself with stuff like culture and what the fans want, selling tickets today, etc. All this stuff that looks at what's better today instead of the next decade.

Thankfully this front office is showing they're ambitious and don't care about any of that sentimental stuff. They're all about winning at the highest level, not treading water.

Hopefully they do a couple more trades in that direction today, and buyout whoever is left next week that's not in this team's future plans.

I'm saying that also,

let's see if the FO takes his vets away, LOL

because what the FO does is different than how you coach a team. It's still my conspiracy theory that the FO purposely declined to convert CJ Williams and Ty Wallace's two-way contracts to keep them away from Doc, who would have used them and maybe made the playoffs, losing us the FRP to Boston.


But Doc don't do Daddy Day Care. That's what G-League is for. Nobody gets PT who doesn't earn it over the other guys. You do your best every game because nobody learns anything playing bad basketball.

That doesn't mean the FO shouldn't manipulate the roster with the future in mind. OTOH, throwing 5 kids in the deep end of the pool is BS. The 76ers' Process days were a disgrace and the Laker Process has turned out to be trash too. Ballmer is not gonna go for 3 years of garbage basketball just to end up with a bunch of FRPs who are suitable only for spare parts and trade bait.

[statsman42]

you still want to keep a winning team and a winning culture

Hopefully they do a couple more trades in that direction today, and buyout whoever is left next week that's not in this team's future plans.

Done. Any other requests?