Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[pepe1991]

Get TMac into GS and watch him get multiple rings. Wonder if the same would be said if KD was still in the Thunder and ringless.

KD played nba finals as go to guy at age of 23.
T mac at age of 23 with Kemp, Hill,Mike MIller, Giriček and Gooden lead team to 42-40 season and first round exit , few months later demanded the trade, left, went to Houston , won 51 games, and lost again vs Dirk and Jason Terry in ,of course, first round.

At age of 26 he was already hurt all the time.

Melo won three playoff series. Tmac?

Durant is way more : effective, better shooter, better rebounder,shotblocker and defender than T mac ever was.
T mac, for career ,shot 42% FG and 29% for 3 in playoffs on 45% eFG. That's horrendus.

You're right. He was hurt. He never recovered from that back injury. I would take healthy McGrady over KD. I mean, he had Yao. KD had Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. Now he has Curry, Klay, Green and coming up soon Cousins.

Durant faced prime Bosh,Wade and Lebron.
Two of three players that are considered top 3 players ever at their positions.

T mac and Ming faced Carlos Loozer and Deron Wiliams before he was fat. Was Okur on Jazz ? Guy best known about notion that his wife gave him free pass to bang around once a year.

[Furinkazan]

While some of the fans suffer from some mix of stockholm homer syndrome and would choose T-MAc just because he played for us.

[basketballRob]

For a season or two most fans recognized TMac as the better player between him and Kobe.

[Skin]

Mighty Mo is definitely going to be a force once he fills out his man suit.

He will be a force when in Year 4 of his rookie deal we decline his rookie option because we didn't give him minutes to develop and see what he has. Spends 4 years on the bench backing up Vuc.... leaves for greener pastures. Magic start Rebuild 4.0 in 2022-2023 with Martin's promise of a title by 2030 coming to fruition.

Have to question whether you even watch orlando games or just want to act the fool stanning bamba here? He's averaging 18mpg, gets gassed, get's taken to defensively in a lot of games, has shown effort issues. I mean he's a solid prospect but ease up on acting like he isn't getting playing time. What do you want them to do with him right now? He clearly isn't ready to start or play big minutes especially on a team that's winning games and doesn't have a shot at being one of the very bottom teams in the league.

Have to question whether you even played any form of basketball before. Did you learn faster by playing or watching?

[pepe1991]

Not sure how old you were at the time pepe, but you shouldn't judge Tmac unless you've seen him play. He was fantastic player, there was not a thing he couldn't do on the court. Amazing defender on top of being scoring champion. Not many players were better than him, myself considered him better than Kobe at some point before his injuries.

It was a different era back than, time when big man ruled the league. One could handcheck guard while your big could meet him at the rim without fouling.

As talented as he was, there is no way to win consistently in playoffs all by yourself. In 7 game series all your opponent has to do is send double and tripple teams on TMac, forcing his teammates to try and beat them. And he never had any help in Orlando, while injuries prevented Yao to do so in Houston.

He was incredible TALENT but his poor BBIQ and terrible decisions at end of the games were well documented.
I can go playoffs by playoffs and point out everything wrong with his game but what's the point?

Guy at one point was part of only nba roster with two allstar starters on one team. By all definitions they were nba superteam.
Still lost in first round in 7 games. Also in one playoff series he missed game winner in one and shot to send game to OT in another game.


With Magic ,roster was meh,still against Hornets he missed game winner and got outplayed by Baron Davis. Once confronted with media about it, he decided to blame his teammates for lack of talent. it was after another game where he missed game winner.
In season he was traded Magic were 18-48 WITH him.


I think he has talent to be one of all time greats, but his BBIQ was terrible. Type of player that only cares about winning if he is only reason why team wins.

Lmao... Oh boy.

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Tmac was mosnter

elaborate.
What's your definition of monster? Stat padding 32 points on 42% FG ,having no success whatsoever with any roster he was part of for whole lenght of his career or just notion that he had exiting dunks?

Isn't is so damn sad that closest thing to success that hall of famer had is that moment , in 2013 when he entered a game as gray-haired old man in 20 points blowout for team that he played 0 min in regular season?

Again ,what's defined difference between him, somebody who Magic fans love ( despite having zero succes with him, but whatever ), and Carmelo Anthony, one of most hated stars of last two decades?

I see non. All i see is almost stockholm sindrom bias toward player that for whole lenght of his career had nothing but bunch of empty stats to show for.

[basketballRob]

He was incredible TALENT but his poor BBIQ and terrible decisions at end of the games were well documented.
I can go playoffs by playoffs and point out everything wrong with his game but what's the point?

Guy at one point was part of only nba roster with two allstar starters on one team. By all definitions they were nba superteam.
Still lost in first round in 7 games. Also in one playoff series he missed game winner in one and shot to send game to OT in another game.


With Magic ,roster was meh,still against Hornets he missed game winner and got outplayed by Baron Davis. Once confronted with media about it, he decided to blame his teammates for lack of talent. it was after another game where he missed game winner.
In season he was traded Magic were 18-48 WITH him.


I think he has talent to be one of all time greats, but his BBIQ was terrible. Type of player that only cares about winning if he is only reason why team wins.

Lmao... Oh boy.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Tmac was mosnter

elaborate.
What's your definition of monster? Stat padding 32 points on 42% FG ,having no success whatsoever with any roster he was part of for whole lenght of his career or just notion that he had exiting dunks?

Isn't is so damn sad that closest thing to success that hall of famer had is that moment , in 2013 when he entered a game as gray-haired old man in 20 points blowout for team that he played 0 min in regular season?

Again ,what's defined difference between him, somebody who Magic fans love ( despite having zero succes with him, but whatever ), and Carmelo Anthony, one of most hated stars of last two decades?

I see non. All i see is almost stockholm sindrom bias toward player that for whole lenght of his career had nothing but bunch of empty stats to show for.

Tmac was top 5 in the league for a short period. You could say Kobe and Iverson stat padded too. Their was no question for a short period he was the better of VC vs Tmac and most thought he was better than Kobe at the time.

[pepe1991]

Lmao... Oh boy.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Tmac was mosnter

elaborate.
What's your definition of monster? Stat padding 32 points on 42% FG ,having no success whatsoever with any roster he was part of for whole lenght of his career or just notion that he had exiting dunks?

Isn't is so damn sad that closest thing to success that hall of famer had is that moment , in 2013 when he entered a game as gray-haired old man in 20 points blowout for team that he played 0 min in regular season?

Again ,what's defined difference between him, somebody who Magic fans love ( despite having zero succes with him, but whatever ), and Carmelo Anthony, one of most hated stars of last two decades?

I see non. All i see is almost stockholm sindrom bias toward player that for whole lenght of his career had nothing but bunch of empty stats to show for.

Tmac was top 5 in the league for a short period. You could say Kobe and Iverson stat padded too. Their was no question for a short period he was the better of VC vs Tmac and most thought he was better than Kobe at the time.

They all did.
2000s were era of bad basketball decisions led by ISO heavy stat padders.
That's why systems like Spurs and Pistons could overcome and beat more talented teams .

I don't hate T mac, i just think fans overhype and overrate him. In most years he was Demar Derozan'ing in nba. Around league top in scoring and shot taken, when playoffs roll his efficiency always went down and he was never able to carry teams anywhere.

Whole Durant comp is laughable to me . Durant is simply more complete player. Far superior defender and rebounder,overall more impacful and better player to have on a team.

Just look at 2009-10. Durant is 22 years old at that point. harden is rookie , Westbrook in second year, just 16 ppg player. Jeff Green is their second option and Durant takes them to 50 wins. In playoffs he goes against prime Kobe and already looks like equal,hell even better in some games. Loses 4-2 ( game 6 by 1 point ) but whole world figured they are legit. Lakers win title.
Next year they are already in conference finals, losing to another eventual winner , Dallas.
Third year of playoffs and he is 30 ppg scorer in nba finals. Loses to a team that is probably best team East had since Jordan Bulls to a date.

( few months later OKC refuses to sign Harden about $2-3 M more and they trade him for Jeremy Lamb in one of most idiotic decisions in nba history ).

[bargnanimvp]

He will be a force when in Year 4 of his rookie deal we decline his rookie option because we didn't give him minutes to develop and see what he has. Spends 4 years on the bench backing up Vuc.... leaves for greener pastures. Magic start Rebuild 4.0 in 2022-2023 with Martin's promise of a title by 2030 coming to fruition.

Have to question whether you even watch orlando games or just want to act the fool stanning bamba here? He's averaging 18mpg, gets gassed, get's taken to defensively in a lot of games, has shown effort issues. I mean he's a solid prospect but ease up on acting like he isn't getting playing time. What do you want them to do with him right now? He clearly isn't ready to start or play big minutes especially on a team that's winning games and doesn't have a shot at being one of the very bottom teams in the league.

Have to question whether you even played any form of basketball before. Did you learn faster by playing or watching?

Have to question if you ever played any sport at a high level, you realized how much he's practicing? Do you realize how big of an adjustment it is going from college to the NBA? He is still playing minutes, people here act like if a rookie isn't getting 30 minutes a night we aren't playing them enough, the kid is clearly raw and his body clearly can't handle a lot of the bigs he's already come up against. Give him time. He isn't just sitting at home watching games stop being an idiot.

[Skin]

Have to question whether you even watch orlando games or just want to act the fool stanning bamba here? He's averaging 18mpg, gets gassed, get's taken to defensively in a lot of games, has shown effort issues. I mean he's a solid prospect but ease up on acting like he isn't getting playing time. What do you want them to do with him right now? He clearly isn't ready to start or play big minutes especially on a team that's winning games and doesn't have a shot at being one of the very bottom teams in the league.

Have to question whether you even played any form of basketball before. Did you learn faster by playing or watching?

Have to question if you ever played any sport at a high level, you realized how much he's practicing? Do you realize how big of an adjustment it is going from college to the NBA? He is still playing minutes, people here act like if a rookie isn't getting 30 minutes a night we aren't playing them enough, the kid is clearly raw and his body clearly can't handle a lot of the bigs he's already come up against. Give him time. He isn't just sitting at home watching games stop being an idiot.

I sense I touched a nerve that you can't handle discussing maturely.

[Optimus_Steel]

Not sure how old you were at the time pepe, but you shouldn't judge Tmac unless you've seen him play. He was fantastic player, there was not a thing he couldn't do on the court. Amazing defender on top of being scoring champion. Not many players were better than him, myself considered him better than Kobe at some point before his injuries.

It was a different era back than, time when big man ruled the league. One could handcheck guard while your big could meet him at the rim without fouling.

As talented as he was, there is no way to win consistently in playoffs all by yourself. In 7 game series all your opponent has to do is send double and tripple teams on TMac, forcing his teammates to try and beat them. And he never had any help in Orlando, while injuries prevented Yao to do so in Houston.

He was incredible TALENT but his poor BBIQ and terrible decisions at end of the games were well documented.
I can go playoffs by playoffs and point out everything wrong with his game but what's the point?

Guy at one point was part of only nba roster with two allstar starters on one team. By all definitions they were nba superteam.
Still lost in first round in 7 games. Also in one playoff series he missed game winner in one and shot to send game to OT in another game.


With Magic ,roster was meh,still against Hornets he missed game winner and got outplayed by Baron Davis. Once confronted with media about it, he decided to blame his teammates for lack of talent. it was after another game where he missed game winner.
In season he was traded Magic were 18-48 WITH him.


I think he has talent to be one of all time greats, but his BBIQ was terrible. Type of player that only cares about winning if he is only reason why team wins.

He had questionable work ethic and would also fade in the second game of B2B's. I partly blame the Magic, they should've sat him more and developed him physically instead of playing him 40 mpg on a crappy team.

Don't blame that. Blame our front office and Doc Rivers for making all sorts of terrible draft picks during those years. Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, Ryan Humphries, Steven Hunter, just trash. They passed on some really good talent. Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas most notably.

[bargnanimvp]

Have to question whether you even played any form of basketball before. Did you learn faster by playing or watching?

Have to question if you ever played any sport at a high level, you realized how much he's practicing? Do you realize how big of an adjustment it is going from college to the NBA? He is still playing minutes, people here act like if a rookie isn't getting 30 minutes a night we aren't playing them enough, the kid is clearly raw and his body clearly can't handle a lot of the bigs he's already come up against. Give him time. He isn't just sitting at home watching games stop being an idiot.

I sense I touched a nerve that you can't handle discussing maturely.

I'm just sick of all the people on this board who act like we aren't playing our rookies, hezonja wasn't ready and isn't a good basketball player, isaac is the glass man and keeps getting injured, bamba is a stick who can't defend any one right now and is getting the minutes he deserves. People think this is 2k. You can't just throw a stick figure in 30 minutes a night and call it player development. Real world doesn't work that way. When we've had players who could play their role as a rookie we've played them, when we've had projects who need to be bought on slowly that's the approach we've taken.

[SOUL]

There's fair points to both sides. The most minutes possible doesn't equal player development. As long as they're getting consistent minutes in a specific role as opposed to not playing at all, a player will learn and improve from that. Once they learn to handle those minutes, it'll (hopefully) be bumped up.

But I do think certain young players that have played well over the years that have been afforded starting roles/impact roles right out of the gate for other teams is something that the Magic don't really seem to want happen or are fine with taking a slower approach with and letting them sit behind inferior players or players that have no future with the Magic or even the NBA. For better or worse, this is how the team operates and I think sometimes it has benefited players, and other times we shoot ourselves in the foot.

[basketballRob]

Have to question if you ever played any sport at a high level, you realized how much he's practicing? Do you realize how big of an adjustment it is going from college to the NBA? He is still playing minutes, people here act like if a rookie isn't getting 30 minutes a night we aren't playing them enough, the kid is clearly raw and his body clearly can't handle a lot of the bigs he's already come up against. Give him time. He isn't just sitting at home watching games stop being an idiot.

I sense I touched a nerve that you can't handle discussing maturely.

I'm just sick of all the people on this board who act like we aren't playing our rookies, hezonja wasn't ready and isn't a good basketball player, isaac is the glass man and keeps getting injured, bamba is a stick who can't defend any one right now and is getting the minutes he deserves. People think this is 2k. You can't just throw a stick figure in 30 minutes a night and call it player development. Real world doesn't work that way. When we've had players who could play their role as a rookie we've played them, when we've had projects who need to be bought on slowly that's the approach we've taken.

I think we should play Vuc 38 mpg and he can lead us to the 10th seed in the east.

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[NavalAviator94]

And I'll say this much.... the Tmac led Magic were far more fun to watch than this Vuc led Magic team. At least Tmac made the playoffs with the Magic. Vuc hasn't done that.

C’mon man that’s not even comparable.


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[NavalAviator94]

Not sure how old you were at the time pepe, but you shouldn't judge Tmac unless you've seen him play. He was fantastic player, there was not a thing he couldn't do on the court. Amazing defender on top of being scoring champion. Not many players were better than him, myself considered him better than Kobe at some point before his injuries.

It was a different era back than, time when big man ruled the league. One could handcheck guard while your big could meet him at the rim without fouling.

As talented as he was, there is no way to win consistently in playoffs all by yourself. In 7 game series all your opponent has to do is send double and tripple teams on TMac, forcing his teammates to try and beat them. And he never had any help in Orlando, while injuries prevented Yao to do so in Houston.

He was incredible TALENT but his poor BBIQ and terrible decisions at end of the games were well documented.
I can go playoffs by playoffs and point out everything wrong with his game but what's the point?

Guy at one point was part of only nba roster with two allstar starters on one team. By all definitions they were nba superteam.
Still lost in first round in 7 games. Also in one playoff series he missed game winner in one and shot to send game to OT in another game.


With Magic ,roster was meh,still against Hornets he missed game winner and got outplayed by Baron Davis. Once confronted with media about it, he decided to blame his teammates for lack of talent. it was after another game where he missed game winner.
In season he was traded Magic were 18-48 WITH him.


I think he has talent to be one of all time greats, but his BBIQ was terrible. Type of player that only cares about winning if he is only reason why team wins.

He had questionable work ethic and would also fade in the second game of B2B's. I partly blame the Magic, they should've sat him more and developed him physically instead of playing him 40 mpg on a crappy team.

They couldn’t because of Grant Hill’s contract.


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[VFX]

There's fair points to both sides. The most minutes possible doesn't equal player development. As long as they're getting consistent minutes in a specific role as opposed to not playing at all, a player will learn and improve from that. Once they learn to handle those minutes, it'll (hopefully) be bumped up.

But I do think certain young players that have played well over the years that have been afforded starting roles/impact roles right out of the gate for other teams is something that the Magic don't really seem to want happen or are fine with taking a slower approach with and letting them sit behind inferior players or players that have no future with the Magic or even the NBA. For better or worse, this is how the team operates and I think sometimes it has benefited players, and other times we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Exactly.

What’s annoying is drafting players in the top of the lottery to sit behind players that got us there in the first place. The point of the lottery is to get and develop talent to win down the road. That only happens if they are on the court and able to make mistakes. Other organizations would play their rookies to get information / sample size and trade them while they still held any value. That is just a combination of good asset management and terrible prospect evaluation. Either way it’s better than not having any information or development at all.

It would be an entirely different story if the team had all stars at every position or were competing for a extremely deep playoff run / championship. That has not been the case for this organization whatsoever.

There is zero downside to playing rookies significant minutes if the teams goal is merely to *make* the playoffs. Who doesn’t want to make the playoffs? That should be the lowest goal every time, and if you didn’t get there the year before with the same exact roster chances are you won’t get that much further the following. Hell, you might actually get lucky like Dallas and draft a player the year prior that will get you there from buying in and trusting your draft process.

[Maikson]

For the love of god... even Kobe, LeBron and MJ couldn't get this team out of the first round. Tmac could do things Melo can only dream about.

Just correcting this info: LeBron never lost a series in the first round during his entire career. Almost happened in the past playoffs vs. the Pacers and probably will happen in the west if he gets there with this crazy roster Lakers, but so far it haven't.

[pepe1991]

For the love of god... even Kobe, LeBron and MJ couldn't get this team out of the first round. Tmac could do things Melo can only dream about.

Just correcting this info: LeBron never lost a series in the first round during his entire career. Almost happened in the past playoffs vs. the Pacers and probably will happen in the west if he gets there with this crazy roster Lakers, but so far it haven't.

There is no excuse for star to have 0-7 in first rounds.

At some point you are part of that problem.

I mean, he is measured by superstar standards as he was one. As somebody said , once considered best player in nba, excuses for this W-L record in first round don't exist.

Kobe and MJ did lost in first round ,but also had series where they won by being able to carry. He could not.
You can see what happend to him under pressure vs Detroit.
Jumped on 3-1 lead ,he was playing like God, but when they switched rookie Prince on him he started to crubmle, shoot 36% FG, 24% for 3 in last 3 games. I think he was 7-22 in game 7.

[RickB-Orlando]

Nothing absurd about it. It would be absurd to not manage assets properly.

As far as managing an asset properly, that's fair but very different than making a decision to change the direction of the franchise. We don't know what Bamba is going to be yet. Too many players have turned out to be nothing more than a role players. Right now he's getting quality minutes at the expense of team wins but he is getting minutes as the primary back up so he's certainly not getting mismanaged. There's no proof that he is worth a directional change from Vuc unless we get something in return that provides some certainty at a position of need. Right now that's PG.

I know you think they should trade Vuc but I think that's a really bad idea. He is our offense, period end of story. Without him we will take several steps backwards with the hope that Bamba matures.

Thats precisely what the situation is right now. Orlando runs the offense through Vuc and that will never change as long as he is on the roster as the focal point. We've seen what he is capable of doing for going on 7 seasons now (with this being his best) at a 12-14 record. With Isaac and Bamba being selected (and to a lesser extent AG being resigned) under this current FO, they could go either way with Vuc. They should absolutely test the market and question whether a large contract for him is in the cards for the future of this franchise.

Again, you don't draft multiple players (Isaac, Bamba) in the top of the lottery, to a team with a losing record, without the certainty that they can become a big part of your starting lineup. Anything otherwise would be a mismanagement of assets or a poor assessment of prospects.

Actually sometimes that's exactly what you do. Look at Philadelphia, drafted centers three years in a row (Noel, Embiid, Okafor - and yes, yes, I know, traded for Noel). There are times when you draft the best available player to build up a stock of assets, with an eye to trade them later for needs.

I'm not saying Vuc will continue to start over Bamba long term - I doubt it - but there's nothing wrong with assembling assets without knowing exactly how they will fit on the team in the future.

[Blue_and_Whte]

He was incredible TALENT but his poor BBIQ and terrible decisions at end of the games were well documented.
I can go playoffs by playoffs and point out everything wrong with his game but what's the point?

Guy at one point was part of only nba roster with two allstar starters on one team. By all definitions they were nba superteam.
Still lost in first round in 7 games. Also in one playoff series he missed game winner in one and shot to send game to OT in another game.


With Magic ,roster was meh,still against Hornets he missed game winner and got outplayed by Baron Davis. Once confronted with media about it, he decided to blame his teammates for lack of talent. it was after another game where he missed game winner.
In season he was traded Magic were 18-48 WITH him.


I think he has talent to be one of all time greats, but his BBIQ was terrible. Type of player that only cares about winning if he is only reason why team wins.

Lmao... Oh boy.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Tmac was mosnter

elaborate.
What's your definition of monster? Stat padding 32 points on 42% FG ,having no success whatsoever with any roster he was part of for whole lenght of his career or just notion that he had exiting dunks?

Isn't is so damn sad that closest thing to success that hall of famer had is that moment , in 2013 when he entered a game as gray-haired old man in 20 points blowout for team that he played 0 min in regular season?

Again ,what's defined difference between him, somebody who Magic fans love ( despite having zero succes with him, but whatever ), and Carmelo Anthony, one of most hated stars of last two decades?

I see non. All i see is almost stockholm sindrom bias toward player that for whole lenght of his career had nothing but bunch of empty stats to show for.

A guy that carries a team consisting of some of the worst (skill wise) teammates in NBA history isnt stat padding.

The best players he played with in Orlando were Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden, and Gordon Gireck. Are you **** kidding me? Thats called carrying a bunch of bums on your back until that **** breaks which it literally did. Not stat padding. It doesnt surprise me if you didnt actually watch prime tract mcgrady play.

EDIT: My bad he played with 37 year old Horace Grant, and 400 pound shawn Kemp. Oh and how about that Derrick Dial and Robert Archibald. Thats some talent.





Stat padding....are you effing....kidding me?
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