Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[XTraderXL]

Man, I don't know if Mr. Trader will be able to come back from this one. Best to stick to the stock market... Player evaluation ain't his thing.

So tell me, where was I wrong? He had a very bad 45 min and then a 3 min explosion. Those 3 min will not happen on a regular basis but bad % happened last year for half of the season and is happening right now practically every game. His last 10 games he has been shooting 35% from the field, 34% just in December. You cant deny the numbers, no matter how hard you try. But if you get so excited about a 3 min stretch which will happen 1x every 100 games (if that), then you will be very disappointed.

For the last 10 games or so Luka has been playing more like I expected before the season. 14-15ppg on below average %, 5 assists and about 6-7 reb was my expectation before the season. He had a hot shooting start but is now coming back to earth and only fools cant see that. Just watch the games and compare how he is playing now with how he has been playing a month ago.

You're brushing off those 2 min where he scored 11 points on his own and single-handedly won the game as if it never happened...

IT. DID. HAPPEN.

How many rookies in the last 10 years had a clutch performance like that?

Haha, you are brushing off the 35% overall shooting in the last 10 games, thats 480 min. Its pathetic when you need a 2 min explosiosion in one game (4 shots) to defend the other 478 min of bad shooting. Besides, if he had played a half decent game up to that point, Dallas would not even need those 11 straight points in the end. Now tell me how often he will go on a 11-0 run at the end of a close game? And how often will he have bad shooting games? I will bet you the ratio will be at least 1:10.

And dont get me wrong, I think he will be a very good player in his prime but I dont think he will be the best player on a contending team. He can be a good #2 but not the main guy. That has been my projection for him since before the draft.

[XTraderXL]

Mavs are consistently winning at home, what more would one want from the kid?

Saying something could happen (missing a shot as opposed to making it) is a terrible point of view. All players could potentially miss all their shots.

What are you talking about? I gave you the numbers. Thats not what could happen, thats what has already happened. Or is it 42% shooting for the season and 35% shooting for the last 10 games just something that ESPN.com made up and didnt happen?

Projections are based on what we have seen in the past. And what we have seen of Luka in the only season when he was the main guy was that he dropped off significantly once teams actually started to game plan for him. You are seeing the same happening now and some pople just dont want to admit it.

I was one of the first people on this forum talking about Luka 4 years ago, even before he actually played for Real senior team. I was also more optimistic about him than most. My only worry for him was that he will be limited in the NBA as a scorer and he hasnt done anything to change my mind.

[burek3]

Mavs are consistently winning at home, what more would one want from the kid?

Saying something could happen (missing a shot as opposed to making it) is a terrible point of view. All players could potentially miss all their shots.

What are you talking about? I gave you the numbers. Thats not what could happen, thats what has already happened. Or is it 42% shooting for the season and 35% shooting for the last 10 games just something that ESPN.com made up and didnt happen?

Projections are based on what we have seen in the past. And what we have seen of Luka in the only season when he was the main guy was that he dropped off significantly once teams actually started to game plan for him. You are seeing the same happening now and some pople just dont want to admit it.

I was one of the first people on this forum talking about Luka 4 years ago, even before he actually played for Real senior team. I was also more optimistic about him than most. My only worry for him was that he will be limited in the NBA as a scorer and he hasnt done anything to change my mind.

Hasn't done a thing to change your mind? Like not a single thing? What is your idea of a limited scorer? Any player that averages less than 25ppg? The guy has put up all the shots you could imagine in a basketball textbook in mere 25 games.

It's not about the numbers, it's what you are projecting onto them. A 19 year old will fluctuate in his game.

[Rn5ho]

Ok let's be honest - rookie shooting < 40% couple of games in a row is clearly an indicator for their future - I don't think Luka will improve on any on that. I mean come on.. just look at this:

https://imgur.com/a/7jhYLwe

You honestly think a rookie with such stretch ever panned out well? Dude was shooting 37% from the field and ended season only 41%. Wtf is that?!

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1966/year/2004/lebron-james

[Rn5ho]

Mavs are consistently winning at home, what more would one want from the kid?

Saying something could happen (missing a shot as opposed to making it) is a terrible point of view. All players could potentially miss all their shots.

What are you talking about? I gave you the numbers. Thats not what could happen, thats what has already happened. Or is it 42% shooting for the season and 35% shooting for the last 10 games just something that ESPN.com made up and didnt happen?

Projections are based on what we have seen in the past. And what we have seen of Luka in the only season when he was the main guy was that he dropped off significantly once teams actually started to game plan for him. You are seeing the same happening now and some pople just dont want to admit it.

I was one of the first people on this forum talking about Luka 4 years ago, even before he actually played for Real senior team. I was also more optimistic about him than most. My only worry for him was that he will be limited in the NBA as a scorer and he hasnt done anything to change my mind.

Admit what exactly!? He was **** 18 years old, wtf more do you want from a kid?! Are you seriously real about everything you're writing? You're expecting an 18 year old kid to have 100% consistent season having no issues whatsoever and then immediately transition to NBA (highest level of basketball) and continue dominating right off the bat without having bad game(s)? What the hell man, get a life. Seriously, Luke's putting up historic number and you're here nitpicking about his weak stretch and inconsistency. Show me one teenager who was consistently putting up 18/7/4~ having no bad stretches with amazing efficiency/%s - go ahead. Lebron James had plenty of those (stretches) and he had one of the best rookie seasons for a teenager.

Really just get a life with your nitpicking, always waiting in the corner for an average game/stretch to come up just to continue moaning about inconsistency. We get it, you're not his biggest fan and you prefer to see glass half empty rather than half full, but give us a break now.

[Dirk]

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

[XTraderXL]

Mavs are consistently winning at home, what more would one want from the kid?

Saying something could happen (missing a shot as opposed to making it) is a terrible point of view. All players could potentially miss all their shots.

What are you talking about? I gave you the numbers. Thats not what could happen, thats what has already happened. Or is it 42% shooting for the season and 35% shooting for the last 10 games just something that ESPN.com made up and didnt happen?

Projections are based on what we have seen in the past. And what we have seen of Luka in the only season when he was the main guy was that he dropped off significantly once teams actually started to game plan for him. You are seeing the same happening now and some pople just dont want to admit it.

I was one of the first people on this forum talking about Luka 4 years ago, even before he actually played for Real senior team. I was also more optimistic about him than most. My only worry for him was that he will be limited in the NBA as a scorer and he hasnt done anything to change my mind.

Hasn't done a thing to change your mind? Like not a single thing? What is your idea of a limited scorer? Any player that averages less than 25ppg? The guy has put up all the shots you could imagine in a basketball textbook in mere 25 games.

It's not about the numbers, it's what you are projecting onto them. A 19 year old will fluctuate in his game.

So just because he has taken all the possible shots, it means that he will be a good and efficient scorer? Do you think the coach will let him take enough shots if/when he will keep shooting 40% from the field?

I have been saying for a long time that he is taking too many tough shots and thats because he is having difficulties creating easy shots for himself. Thats why I expected his % to drop and we are seeing it now. I dont understand why its so hard for some of you to admit that. You can keep saying he will get better( and he will), but the question is how much better. You can only do so much when you are athletically limited which Luka is, teams can see it and are starting to play him like that.

I am done debating this any further because the only way to know who was right is to wait a few seasons and see how he turns out. I will only change my mind if he transforms his body and becomes a pre-injury Gordon Hayward type of athlete in the next 2-3 years. Only then he can become a superstar player. I never questioned his skills or his talent.

[XTraderXL]

Mavs are consistently winning at home, what more would one want from the kid?

Saying something could happen (missing a shot as opposed to making it) is a terrible point of view. All players could potentially miss all their shots.

What are you talking about? I gave you the numbers. Thats not what could happen, thats what has already happened. Or is it 42% shooting for the season and 35% shooting for the last 10 games just something that ESPN.com made up and didnt happen?

Projections are based on what we have seen in the past. And what we have seen of Luka in the only season when he was the main guy was that he dropped off significantly once teams actually started to game plan for him. You are seeing the same happening now and some pople just dont want to admit it.

I was one of the first people on this forum talking about Luka 4 years ago, even before he actually played for Real senior team. I was also more optimistic about him than most. My only worry for him was that he will be limited in the NBA as a scorer and he hasnt done anything to change my mind.

Admit what exactly!? He was **** 18 years old, wtf more do you want from a kid?! Are you seriously real about everything you're writing? You're expecting an 18 year old kid to have 100% consistent season having no issues whatsoever and then immediately transition to NBA (highest level of basketball) and continue dominating right off the bat without having bad game(s)? What the hell man, get a life. Seriously, Luke's putting up historic number and you're here nitpicking about his weak stretch and inconsistency. Show me one teenager who was consistently putting up 18/7/4~ having no bad stretches with amazing efficiency/%s - go ahead. Lebron James had plenty of those (stretches) and he had one of the best rookie seasons for a teenager.

Really just get a life with your nitpicking, always waiting in the corner for an average game/stretch to come up just to continue moaning about inconsistency. We get it, you're not his biggest fan and you prefer to see glass half empty rather than half full, but give us a break now.

Seems like you have a crush on Luka and couple that with you being all emotional, I only have one question for you. Are you a girl?

Besides, this is an open forum so who are you to tell me to stop posting? I could say the same thing about you because I think you are over hyping him. Just because you dont like what I have to say, doesnt mean I should be banned. Thats some Hitler tactics my dear. So calm down, make yourself some tea and watch a romantic movie. You are too worked up to have a normal discussion.

[Jstock12]

Ok let's be honest - rookie shooting < 40% couple of games in a row is clearly an indicator for their future - I don't think Luka will improve on any on that. I mean come on.. just look at this:

https://imgur.com/a/7jhYLwe

You honestly think a rookie with such stretch ever panned out well? Dude was shooting 37% from the field and ended season only 41%. Wtf is that?!

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1966/year/2004/lebron-james

Brilliant.

[Jstock12]

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Love how at 19 years old he just pretty much always makes the most optimal play, the play that will net the team the most points on average in the long run. Some of the so called "stars" would have driven into both Vucevic and Gordon and turned the ball over just because of their ego - "I'm a superstar and I can do it alone"...

[Bob8]

To watch a fan, who I believe XTraderXL is, wanting his favorite player to play bad, just because he want to prove he being right is one of the saddest thing you can see in this forums.

It looks to me that Luka is playing good enough to help Mavs winning games. He was very important, if not crucial in their last 3 wins. How many rookies can say that? t’s true that he’s a rookie too. Ups and downs are expected.

[XTraderXL]

To watch a fan, who I believe XTraderXL is, wanting his favorite player to play bad, just because he want to prove he being right is one of the saddest thing you can see in this forums.

It looks to me that Luka is playing good enough to help Mavs winning games. He was very important, if not crucial in their last 3 wins. It’s true that he’s a rookie too. Ups and downs are expected.

You are wrong about me wanting him to play bad. Way wrong. The problem is that all you guys here are so sure about Luka being the next Larry Brid that you cant possibly accept a different point of view. Thats why its easier for you to convince yourselves that if someone doesnt see it your way, he must be a hater. Thats the issue here. This thread should be renamed to Doncic Fanboys agreeing with each other (no descent allowed).

And someone compared LBJ to Doncic which is just idiotic. LBJ as a rookie was 5 times the athlete Luka will ever be and he can get pretty much any shot he wants with ease. Its just a question of him making it. Luka on the other hand has to work hard for almost every shot and then make it. Its a huge difference and that was one of the things LBJ got much better at as his career went on. Luka doenst have that luxury, he will always have to work twice as hard as LBJ to get his shots and that will affect his %. Its a simple as that.

[burek3]

So just because he has taken all the possible shots, it means that he will be a good and efficient scorer? Do you think the coach will let him take enough shots if/when he will keep shooting 40% from the field?

Ah yes, the good ole "bUt hE waS 3-12 BEfoRe hiS RuN". So superficial. The coach did exactly that. They won. Shocking.

[Jstock12]

To watch a fan, who I believe XTraderXL is, wanting his favorite player to play bad, just because he want to prove he being right is one of the saddest thing you can see in this forums.

It looks to me that Luka is playing good enough to help Mavs winning games. He was very important, if not crucial in their last 3 wins. How many rookies can say that? t’s true that he’s a rookie too. Ups and downs are expected.

I think it could be a self-defense mechanism. He doesn't let himself believe that Luka can become a superstar because if he believes it and it doesn't happen, he'll be emotionally wrecked.

[XTraderXL]

So just because he has taken all the possible shots, it means that he will be a good and efficient scorer? Do you think the coach will let him take enough shots if/when he will keep shooting 40% from the field?

Ah yes, the good ole "bUt hE waS 3-12 BEfoRe hiS RuN". So superficial. The coach did exactly that. They won. Shocking.

Again taking everything out of context. Last 10 games 35% from the field, 34% in December alone, 42% for the season and dropping fast. You are focusing on a 3 min stretch which may never again happen for him.

[Dirk]

Guys,

if you cannot accept Trader's opinions, then you shouldn't also be bringing him up like it happened after that Houston game. He is entitled to his opinion. And I think different opinions and someone that has a different perspective should be accepted.

What shouldn't happen is calling him out after the good games and at the same time then get frustrated when he shows up and states his opinions.

At the end of the day... whatever he thinks. Whatever we think... doesn't matter. So there's no point taking anything that anyone says seriously enough to get engaged in stupid fights.

Seems like you have a crush on Luka and couple that with you being all emotional, I only have one question for you. Are you a girl?

Besides, this is an open forum so who are you to tell me to stop posting? I could say the same thing about you because I think you are over hyping him. Just because you dont like what I have to say, doesnt mean I should be banned. Thats some Hitler tactics my dear. So calm down, make yourself some tea and watch a romantic movie. You are too worked up to have a normal discussion.

Xtrader,

this type of post is clearly against the rules and a warning everywhere.

I will let it go.

You are WELCOME to visit and post on the Mavs forum. But if you get too emotional, just close the tab and move on. No point posting this sort of stuff "...are you a girl?"; "watch a romantic movie".

You are on a very (small) Mavs forum. It is natural that people will be attached to their players. In this specific case you have a prodigy for a small nation. So you also have several users who are naturally very proud and hopeful about their player. Hell, I am sure many Europeans have also adopted Doncic. This is all normal.

And this is a fact: the excitement about Doncic is everywhere on Mavs nation. And across the NBA really. It is there because he has shown more than enough to make people believe that he can be a star in this league. It does not mean that you are wrong on what you say. It just means that you need to know your your environment.

If you're posting on a Mavs forum, you cannot expect not to receive some strong opinions. If you don't adapt to it, then it makes me question your intentions. So please, do not resort to these types of remarks when replying back to another user. Stick to making your rational points and being analytical. Avoid getting into these types of fights otherwise it will just be a mess.

Everyone: please make it work where you can have different opinions living on this topic. I don't have a problem with some "fighting" - but you cannot let it get too personal.

[XTraderXL]

Guys,

if you cannot accept Trader's opinions, then you shouldn't also be bringing him up like you did after that Houston game.

He is entitled to his opinion. And I think you should welcome different opinions and someone that has a different perspective.

What you can't do is call him out after the good games and at the same time then get frustrated when he shows up and states his opinions.

At the end of the day... whatever he thinks. Whatever we think... doesn't matter. So there's no point taking anything that anyone says seriously enough to get engaged in stupid fights.

Seems like you have a crush on Luka and couple that with you being all emotional, I only have one question for you. Are you a girl?

Besides, this is an open forum so who are you to tell me to stop posting? I could say the same thing about you because I think you are over hyping him. Just because you dont like what I have to say, doesnt mean I should be banned. Thats some Hitler tactics my dear. So calm down, make yourself some tea and watch a romantic movie. You are too worked up to have a normal discussion.

Xtrader,

this type of post is clearly against the rules and a warning everywhere.

I will let it go.

You are WELCOME to visit and post on the Mavs forum. But if you get too emotional, just close the tab and move on. No point posting this sort of stuff "...are you a girl?"; "watch a romantic movie".

You are on a very (small) Mavs forum. It is natural that people will be attached to their players. In this specific case you have a prodigy for a small nation. So you also have several users who are naturally very proud and hopeful about their player. Hell, I am sure many Europeans have also adopted Doncic. This is all normal.

And this is a fact: the excitement about Doncic is everywhere on Mavs nation. And across the NBA really. It is there because he has shown more than enough to make people believe that he can be a star in this league. It does not mean that you are wrong on what you say. It just means that you need to know your your environment.

If you're posting on a Mavs forum, you cannot expect not to receive some strong opinions. If you don't adapt to it, then it makes me question your intentions. So please, do not resort to these types of remarks to reply back to another user. Stick to making your rational points and being analytical. Avoid getting into these types of fights otherwise it will just be a mess.

Everyone: please make it work where you can have different opinions living on this topic. I don't have a problem with some "fighting", but you cannot let it get too personal.

At the end of the day, nothing of what anyone writes or thinks matters. Consider that when someone else writes something that you strongly disagree with. Often times it's just best to ignore.

My issue was that this person said that I should stop posting just because that person doesnt agree with me. If anyone is getting emotional its that person for saying that. I know my opinion is controversial but I have never said anything personal about Luka and only talk about his game. The problem is that they cant accept that and want to chase away anyone that they disagree with. Its a hysterical reaction and thats why you have a mess on your hands now, its not because of me. I will leave this forum because its unreadable, objective posters only post from time to time because of the reasons I mentioned above. I will only read it for comic relief.

[Bob8]

To watch a fan, who I believe XTraderXL is, wanting his favorite player to play bad, just because he want to prove he being right is one of the saddest thing you can see in this forums.

It looks to me that Luka is playing good enough to help Mavs winning games. He was very important, if not crucial in their last 3 wins. It’s true that he’s a rookie too. Ups and downs are expected.

You are wrong about me wanting him to play bad. Way wrong. The problem is that all you guys here are so sure about Luka being the next Larry Brid that you cant possibly accept a different point of view. Thats why its easier for you to convince yourselves that if someone doesnt see it your way, he must be a hater. Thats the issue here. This thread should be renamed to Doncic Fanboys agreeing with each other (no descent allowed).

And someone compared LBJ to Doncic which is just idiotic. LBJ as a rookie was 5 times the athlete Luka will ever be and he can get pretty much any shot he wants with ease. Its just a question of him making it. Luka on the other hand has to work hard for almost every shot and then make it. Its a huge difference and that was one of the things LBJ got much better at as his career went on. Luka doenst have that luxury, he will always have to work twice as hard as LBJ to get his shots and that will affect his %. Its a simple as that.

I’m not sure, if rookie LeBron had that easy, because his shot efficiency was way lower than Luka’s. I believe your expectations for rookie Luka is set much to high. And LeBron is not his target anyway, if he averages 25/8/8 in his prime, he will be multiple all star and incredible player. RC said that he had his best game as playmaker yesterday. So maybe we should focus on positive, because his playmaking is maybe even more crucial for his success than scoring. Luka basically shoved in this 20+ games, that he can do everything in Nba. How many players is capable of that? You’re focusing too much only on scoring %, which is very solid btw. Anybody can have bad patches through the season. Imho he is just forcing too much, believing he’s better player than really is at the moment. And even that is good for his development. RC controlling everything.

[Bob8]

Guys,

if you cannot accept Trader's opinions, then you shouldn't also be bringing him up like you did after that Houston game.

He is entitled to his opinion. And I think you should welcome different opinions and someone that has a different perspective.

What you can't do is call him out after the good games and at the same time then get frustrated when he shows up and states his opinions.

At the end of the day... whatever he thinks. Whatever we think... doesn't matter. So there's no point taking anything that anyone says seriously enough to get engaged in stupid fights.

Seems like you have a crush on Luka and couple that with you being all emotional, I only have one question for you. Are you a girl?

Besides, this is an open forum so who are you to tell me to stop posting? I could say the same thing about you because I think you are over hyping him. Just because you dont like what I have to say, doesnt mean I should be banned. Thats some Hitler tactics my dear. So calm down, make yourself some tea and watch a romantic movie. You are too worked up to have a normal discussion.

Xtrader,

this type of post is clearly against the rules and a warning everywhere.

I will let it go.

You are WELCOME to visit and post on the Mavs forum. But if you get too emotional, just close the tab and move on. No point posting this sort of stuff "...are you a girl?"; "watch a romantic movie".

You are on a very (small) Mavs forum. It is natural that people will be attached to their players. In this specific case you have a prodigy for a small nation. So you also have several users who are naturally very proud and hopeful about their player. Hell, I am sure many Europeans have also adopted Doncic. This is all normal.

And this is a fact: the excitement about Doncic is everywhere on Mavs nation. And across the NBA really. It is there because he has shown more than enough to make people believe that he can be a star in this league. It does not mean that you are wrong on what you say. It just means that you need to know your your environment.

If you're posting on a Mavs forum, you cannot expect not to receive some strong opinions. If you don't adapt to it, then it makes me question your intentions. So please, do not resort to these types of remarks to reply back to another user. Stick to making your rational points and being analytical. Avoid getting into these types of fights otherwise it will just be a mess.

Everyone: please make it work where you can have different opinions living on this topic. I don't have a problem with some "fighting", but you cannot let it get too personal.

At the end of the day, nothing of what anyone writes or thinks matters. Consider that when someone else writes something that you strongly disagree with. Often times it's just best to ignore.

My issue was that this person said that I should stop posting just because that person doesnt agree with me. If anyone is getting emotional its that person for saying that. I know my opinion is controversial but I have never said anything personal about Luka and only talk about his game. The problem is that they cant accept that and want to chase away anyone that they disagree with. Its a hysterical reaction and thats why you have a mess on your hands now, its not because of me. I will leave this forum because its unreadable, objective posters only post from time to time because of the reasons I mentioned above. I will only read it for comic relief.

Man you’re too sensitive. Just remember what were you writing about me in Draft forum. Nobody is doing that to you.

[Jstock12]

Guys,

if you cannot accept Trader's opinions, then you shouldn't also be bringing him up like you did after that Houston game.

He is entitled to his opinion. And I think you should welcome different opinions and someone that has a different perspective.

What you can't do is call him out after the good games and at the same time then get frustrated when he shows up and states his opinions.

At the end of the day... whatever he thinks. Whatever we think... doesn't matter. So there's no point taking anything that anyone says seriously enough to get engaged in stupid fights.

Seems like you have a crush on Luka and couple that with you being all emotional, I only have one question for you. Are you a girl?

Besides, this is an open forum so who are you to tell me to stop posting? I could say the same thing about you because I think you are over hyping him. Just because you dont like what I have to say, doesnt mean I should be banned. Thats some Hitler tactics my dear. So calm down, make yourself some tea and watch a romantic movie. You are too worked up to have a normal discussion.

Xtrader,

this type of post is clearly against the rules and a warning everywhere.

I will let it go.

You are WELCOME to visit and post on the Mavs forum. But if you get too emotional, just close the tab and move on. No point posting this sort of stuff "...are you a girl?"; "watch a romantic movie".

You are on a very (small) Mavs forum. It is natural that people will be attached to their players. In this specific case you have a prodigy for a small nation. So you also have several users who are naturally very proud and hopeful about their player. Hell, I am sure many Europeans have also adopted Doncic. This is all normal.

And this is a fact: the excitement about Doncic is everywhere on Mavs nation. And across the NBA really. It is there because he has shown more than enough to make people believe that he can be a star in this league. It does not mean that you are wrong on what you say. It just means that you need to know your your environment.

If you're posting on a Mavs forum, you cannot expect not to receive some strong opinions. If you don't adapt to it, then it makes me question your intentions. So please, do not resort to these types of remarks to reply back to another user. Stick to making your rational points and being analytical. Avoid getting into these types of fights otherwise it will just be a mess.

Everyone: please make it work where you can have different opinions living on this topic. I don't have a problem with some "fighting", but you cannot let it get too personal.

At the end of the day, nothing of what anyone writes or thinks matters. Consider that when someone else writes something that you strongly disagree with. Often times it's just best to ignore.

My issue was that this person said that I should stop posting just because that person doesnt agree with me. If anyone is getting emotional its that person for saying that. I know my opinion is controversial but I have never said anything personal about Luka and only talk about his game. The problem is that they cant accept that and want to chase away anyone that they disagree with. Its a hysterical reaction and thats why you have a mess on your hands now, its not because of me. I will leave this forum because its unreadable, objective posters only post from time to time because of the reasons I mentioned above. I will only read it for comic relief.

You're the one who took it too far by asking someone if he's a girl and that he should go watch a romantic movie, because you couldn't come up with any better arguments to support your opinion. And this passive aggressive 'goodbye note' is even cringier. If you really think this forum is unreadable, then I would suggest looking in the mirror, because you might be one of the reasons why.