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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#241 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:07 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm more interested in trading wall and dumping Ian and handing over the keys to Brad than I am anything else.

Beal looks more capable of being a #1 option this year than ever before. He's going to need Otto or Oubre to step up and take some of the pressure off though. Beal can score 25 a night, but it will be a lot easier if someone else can get 17 a night and at least draw some defensive attention.


At just under 95 shots per 36, Oubre should be able to average 17 points.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#242 » by 80sballboy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:06 pm

Eli Babak wrote:If they trade Beal or Porter I'm not gonna watch single game this season unless Wall wakes the **** up and plays on MVP level.


Why would they not trade one or both of those guys if they can't trade Wall. This shi-t ain't working. Time to rebuild it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#243 » by LyricalRico » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:07 pm

Ah trade checker, how I've missed you... :love:

Wizards trade: Wall and Porter
Wizards receive: Hayward, Caldwell-Pope, unprotected PHX first, LAL 2nds

Suns trade: Ariza, unprotected first
Suns receive: Wall

Celtics trade: Hayward
Celtics receive: Porter and Beasley

Lakers trade: Caldwell-Pope, Beasley, two 2nds
Lakers receive: Ariza

TRADE ID 7143165

Solves our longterm cap problems, pairs Beal with another wing scorer, adds picks. Boom! :D
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#244 » by DCZards » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:46 pm

dangermouse wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm more interested in trading wall and dumping Ian and handing over the keys to Brad than I am anything else.


This.

Its Brad's team already as far as i'm concerned. Wall + Beal had a chance to be the best back court in the L but it just didn't work out. Only one of those players has really improved their game and added new dimensions to it.

When Brad is on, he looks like Harden-lite who plays D.

Last year when Wall was injured "The wizards play better without wall" was something I fought against, mainly because of how good Wall had been previously, particularly in the playoffs. I think the sample size is large enough now that moving him on and giving Sato starting PG duties is the only way we get back to winning.


It's interesting to watch Beal's body language and interaction with teammates when Wall is out and BB knows he's the undisputed leader. Bradley really is MUCH more of an on court leader than Wall and it shows when he doesn't have to compete with Wall for that role.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#245 » by dckingsfan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:57 pm

DCZards wrote:
dangermouse wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm more interested in trading wall and dumping Ian and handing over the keys to Brad than I am anything else.


This.

Its Brad's team already as far as i'm concerned. Wall + Beal had a chance to be the best back court in the L but it just didn't work out. Only one of those players has really improved their game and added new dimensions to it.

When Brad is on, he looks like Harden-lite who plays D.

Last year when Wall was injured "The wizards play better without wall" was something I fought against, mainly because of how good Wall had been previously, particularly in the playoffs. I think the sample size is large enough now that moving him on and giving Sato starting PG duties is the only way we get back to winning.

It's interesting to watch Beal's body language and interaction with teammates when Wall is out and BB knows he's the undisputed leader. Bradley really is MUCH more of an on court leader than Wall and it shows when he doesn't have to compete with Wall for that role.

Happy I wasn't the only one to see this... the question is, with what type of players would you surround Beal? Are there any players on this roster that fits the bill?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#246 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:10 pm

I'm starting to feel bad for John Wall. The whole NBA world seems to be acting like he's worthless. He's not.

Bradley Beal is not playing anywhere near as well as comments here would imply. He's playing at almost exactly the same level as last year. Not as well as 2016-17, his best year.

We're 1/3 of the way through the season, & Troy Brown Jr. has gotten 75 minutes of PT. Ernie & Brooks are plain nuts.

The trade for Dekker makes me think they are most likely to deal Otto Porter.

What a gang of fools the Wizards ownership & FO are!! Wow....
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#247 » by NYG » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:14 pm

In an Otto Porter to Sacramento trade, what do the Kings want in exchange?

Would Lance Thomas and Skal Labissiere be enough given the savings?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#248 » by 80sballboy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:35 pm

payitforward wrote:I'm starting to feel bad for John Wall. The whole NBA world seems to be acting like he's worthless. He's not.

Bradley Beal is not playing anywhere near as well as comments here would imply. He's playing at almost exactly the same level as last year. Not as well as 2016-17, his best year.

We're 1/3 of the way through the season, & Troy Brown Jr. has gotten 75 minutes of PT. Ernie & Brooks are plain nuts.

The trade for Dekker makes me think they are most likely to deal Otto Porter.

What a gang of fools the Wizards ownership & FO are!! Wow....


I don't think adding Dekker has anything to do with trading Otto other than they might keep him next season because he's cheap. But I see what you're saying. He's a 6-8 stretch power forward just like Otto without the shooting ability obviously. Much, much cheaper. EG might be nuts but he drafted Troy Brown Jr. Brooks is the one not playing him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#249 » by DCZards » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:
dangermouse wrote:
This.

Its Brad's team already as far as i'm concerned. Wall + Beal had a chance to be the best back court in the L but it just didn't work out. Only one of those players has really improved their game and added new dimensions to it.

When Brad is on, he looks like Harden-lite who plays D.

Last year when Wall was injured "The wizards play better without wall" was something I fought against, mainly because of how good Wall had been previously, particularly in the playoffs. I think the sample size is large enough now that moving him on and giving Sato starting PG duties is the only way we get back to winning.

It's interesting to watch Beal's body language and interaction with teammates when Wall is out and BB knows he's the undisputed leader. Bradley really is MUCH more of an on court leader than Wall and it shows when he doesn't have to compete with Wall for that role.

Happy I wasn't the only one to see this... the question is, with what type of players would you surround Beal? Are there any players on this roster that fits the bill?


I'd start by teaming Beal with the kind of PG that I wish Wall would be...one that passes first and looks for his shot after that. Problem is that Wall has yet to learn his limitations as a shooter and as a result takes far too many ill-advised shots. Sadly, as much as I love Wall's overall skillset and the excitement he brings to Chinatown, I don't see that aspect of his game changing.

Ball strikes me as the type of PG that would be a good fit next to both Beal and Porter. That's the main reason that a trade that would send Wall to the Lakers and Ball to DC is the one I personally find most appealing. Of course, there would be other elements to that trade. Hopefully, resulting in either Ingram, Kuzma and/or Hart also coming to the Zards.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#250 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:32 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Ah trade checker, how I've missed you... :love:

Wizards trade: Wall and Porter
Wizards receive: Hayward, Caldwell-Pope, unprotected PHX first, LAL 2nds

Suns trade: Ariza, unprotected first
Suns receive: Wall

Celtics trade: Hayward
Celtics receive: Porter and Beasley

Lakers trade: Caldwell-Pope, Beasley, two 2nds
Lakers receive: Ariza

TRADE ID 7143165

Solves our longterm cap problems, pairs Beal with another wing scorer, adds picks. Boom! :D

If the Suns would do that, I'd definitely cut the Celtics out and just make it Wall for Ariza + unprotected 1st. Hell, I'd trade Wall for Ryan Anderson plus their unprotected 1st.

Once Wall is gone, there is no compelling need to trade Porter, and certainly not for an older player on a worse contract with an injury issue.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#251 » by Shanghai Kid » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:11 pm

I think everybody getting hyped on Wall being traded are likely to end up dissapointed.

All of the things that some are complaining about are things that are obvious to other GMs. Some are convinced that the team would be better if Wall just didnt play.

With that level of criticism, there is than this optimism that another team is going to take on his supermax contract.

I just don't see it. I could be wrong, am anxious to see if its possible.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#252 » by payitforward » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:34 am

NYG wrote:In an Otto Porter to Sacramento trade, what do the Kings want in exchange?

Would Lance Thomas and Skal Labissiere be enough given the savings?

Presumably you mean "what do the Wizards want in exchange?"

Presumably you are aware that Lance Thomas plays for the Knicks not the Kings.

Presumably you are aware that Lance Thomas is a bad player, just marginally a rotation player at minimal minutes, & has averaged under 900 minutes a season in his 7+ season career.

Presumably you also know that, bad as Lance Thomas is, Skal Labissiere makes him look good in comparison. & that he has earned exactly 40 minutes of PT so far this year.

You're a Knicks fan, right NYG?

Why don't you give us Mitchell Robinson, Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh, Courtney Lee (you want to move him, right?), & your R1 pick next year for Austin Rivers & Markieff Morris?

That way you'd have some veteran stability this season behind your promising young players like Mario Hezonja, Luke Kornet, Frank Ntilikena & Kevin Knox. Plus, both Rivers & Morris expire this year, so you'll have plenty of cap room to go into the FA market next off season & get yourself Kevin Durant.

What do you say?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#253 » by gambitx777 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:41 am

Shanghai Kid wrote:I think everybody getting hyped on Wall being traded are likely to end up dissapointed.

All of the things that some are complaining about are things that are obvious to other GMs. Some are convinced that the team would be better if Wall just didnt play.

With that level of criticism, there is than this optimism that another team is going to take on his supermax contract.

I just don't see it. I could be wrong, am anxious to see if its possible.

I think his past play , and the narrative that it's just a toxic environment and that everyone would be better off in a new city with a fresh start, may be enough to get it done. I heard Miami is interested and a team with such middleing contracts that still wants to try and win like the heat might be attracted to wall because as bad as his contact is. There isn't much difference between their situation with wall and with out him, to a big market team who isn't afraid of the tax.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#254 » by payitforward » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:49 am

80sballboy wrote:...EG might be nuts but he drafted Troy Brown Jr. Brooks is the one not playing him.

Well... I've already written this too many times, but...

What makes you think drafting Troy Brown #15 was a good move? The fact that he looks like a promising player? So what?

To make a good draft pick is to use an asset (the pick) well. The pick you have is like a certain amount of $$ -- you've made a good pick if you demonstrate that you got the maximum value available for that $$.

Suppose -- just suppose now, ok? -- we could have traded our #15 pick for Atlanta's #19 pick & their #34 pick. Now suppose that Troy Brown was still there at #19, & we picked him. & then we used that #34 pick on Mitchell Robinson? Wouldn't that be better than what we did? Yes, it would be -- by definition!

Of course, Troy might not have been there at #19, but in that case one of Kevin Huerter, Donte diVicenzo, or Lonnie Walker would have been. Or Landry Shamet or Spellman or robinson. Those guys have played something approaching 2500 minutes! Brown has played 75 minutes.

I'm not talking about how good a player Troy Brown is. I'm talking about whether our GM took the trouble to maximize his draft. Whether he worked hard enough to improve his team. Or whether he was a conceited, lazy time-server who is pretty much satisfied with everything he's ever done -- because, after all, *he* is the one who did it, so how bad could it be?

Go take a look at what Hamidou Diallo is doing as a rookie for OKC. He's killing it. He was taken #45, one pick after we made sure to sew up the rights to Issuf Sanon. Rather like how we picked Sato instead of Draymond or Middleton or Will Barton -- all of whom gave their teams 4 years of productivity before we ever laid eyes on Tomas!

For that matter, even if it's Brooks' fault Troy isn't playing -- who hired Brooks?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#255 » by LyricalRico » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:15 pm

nate33 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Ah trade checker, how I've missed you... :love:

Wizards trade: Wall and Porter
Wizards receive: Hayward, Caldwell-Pope, unprotected PHX first, LAL 2nds

Suns trade: Ariza, unprotected first
Suns receive: Wall

Celtics trade: Hayward
Celtics receive: Porter and Beasley

Lakers trade: Caldwell-Pope, Beasley, two 2nds
Lakers receive: Ariza

TRADE ID 7143165

Solves our longterm cap problems, pairs Beal with another wing scorer, adds picks. Boom! :D

If the Suns would do that, I'd definitely cut the Celtics out and just make it Wall for Ariza + unprotected 1st. Hell, I'd trade Wall for Ryan Anderson plus their unprotected 1st.

Once Wall is gone, there is no compelling need to trade Porter, and certainly not for an older player on a worse contract with an injury issue.


I considered just WAS/PHX but was trying to work in the Lakers wanting Ariza. But I'm with you - even Anderson and an unprotected first would work for Wall.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#256 » by LyricalRico » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:17 pm

Shanghai Kid wrote:I think everybody getting hyped on Wall being traded are likely to end up dissapointed.


Oh no doubt, but we gotta hang on to hope while it lasts lol. :pray:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#257 » by Mel Proctor » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#258 » by FAH1223 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:19 pm

Mel Proctor wrote:Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).


When Wall has it going, he is elite.

Problem is, its not consistent. And in his 9th season, the same weaknesses on draft night are still there albeit not the degree of when he was a rookie.

Shot selection isn't good. His jumpshot is better but not anything special. Turnovers. And now his defense isn't good either.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#259 » by Wiz99 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Mel Proctor wrote:Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).


The problem with Wall isn't whether the talent is there.

It's (1) Why doesn't he brinig it every night, or even most nights, (2) Why does he utterly suck at being a team leader [even his friggin' Wikipedia page talks about this being a problem in high school and he may have had to change schools b/c of it].
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#260 » by Wiz99 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:53 pm

This appeared on ESPN this AM

Spurs get: John Wall

Wizards get: Pau Gasol, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV

Marc J. Spears: Who could revive Wall as one of the elite NBA point guards? How about Gregg Popovich, who coached Wall on Team USA?

The Spurs are a player away from being scary again, so imagine a lineup with Wall and fellow All-Stars DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge. Behind the Warriors, the West still looks wide-open right now. Plus, a small-market San Antonio team would be locking in a star backcourt long term.

On top of moving on from Wall's contract, the Wizards would surround Bradley Beal with a point guard of the future in Murray (once he gets healthy) and another young talent in Walker, a 2018 first-round pick. Gasol would be included for financial reasons and to add some veteran leadership to Washington's locker room.


I would LEAP at this.

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