Nassir Little

[Funcrusher]

If you go back over the thread you can see what games I've watched.

Which is to say, what are you pro-Little people basing your opinion on? Because it can't be what he's dished up this season in the games I've seen.

I don't really care what games you watched, I'm telling you that he's only had like two objectively bad games (Michigan and Texas) where he's struggled, so I assume you're basing your critique largely on those games. Otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about.

Outside of those games, and really just the Michigan game, he's been productive in the role he's been given. You can look at his stats, which I'm sure you've already been made aware of, they back it up.

My understanding is he's been objectively bad the entire year, because that's what the tape I've watched says. Awesome for him he's tricked some of you because seemingly you've only looked at box scores or stats, I suspect actual scouts in the NBA won't be so lenient.

Also, its great you can deduce he has all these positive characteristics from stats, though how you can get he has "range" with his 3p % is beyond me.

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

[PLO]

I don't really care what games you watched, I'm telling you that he's only had like two objectively bad games (Michigan and Texas) where he's struggled, so I assume you're basing your critique largely on those games. Otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about.

Outside of those games, and really just the Michigan game, he's been productive in the role he's been given. You can look at his stats, which I'm sure you've already been made aware of, they back it up.

My understanding is he's been objectively bad the entire year, because that's what the tape I've watched says. Awesome for him he's tricked some of you because seemingly you've only looked at box scores or stats, I suspect actual scouts in the NBA won't be so lenient.

Also, its great you can deduce he has all these positive characteristics from stats, though how you can get he has "range" with his 3p % is beyond me.

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

[cgf]

My understanding is he's been objectively bad the entire year, because that's what the tape I've watched says. Awesome for him he's tricked some of you because seemingly you've only looked at box scores or stats, I suspect actual scouts in the NBA won't be so lenient.

Also, its great you can deduce he has all these positive characteristics from stats, though how you can get he has "range" with his 3p % is beyond me.

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

Patience my friend, patience. There is still a long time between now and the draft for you to get to see more of Little's full skillset. A dozen college games doesn't change a kid's skillset, just like KAT didn't suddenly forget how to shoot when he arrived in Kentucky.

[PLO]

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

Patience my friend, patience. There is still a long time between now and the draft for you to get to see more of Little's full skillset. A dozen college games doesn't change a kid's skillset, just like KAT didn't suddenly forget how to shoot when he arrived in Kentucky.

That's a fair argument and one I'm willing to accept, Fis for example made the same point earlier in the thread based on what seems to be his high school play. My point is right now he doesn't look very good, that's just a fact. Hopefully that changes over the season.

[skiz2]

Objectively bad is just not true.

Jahvon Quinerly has been objectively bad.

[cgf]

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

Patience my friend, patience. There is still a long time between now and the draft for you to get to see more of Little's full skillset. A dozen college games doesn't change a kid's skillset, just like KAT didn't suddenly forget how to shoot when he arrived in Kentucky.

That's a fair argument and one I'm willing to accept, Fis for example made the same point earlier in the thread based on what seems to be his high school play. My point is right now he doesn't look very good, that's just a fact. Hopefully that changes over the season.

I think you're being too harsh on him and letting that dreadful Michigan game weigh too heavily on your assessment, but ultimately time will tell...as there really just isn't yet enough college film to judge any of these kids too harshly on, at that level. If Little's % from 3 doesn't rise as the sample size starts to become more informative and he hires Fultz's old trainer to **** up his shooting mechanics too; then I'll start to worry...but it's gunna be a minute until we have to cross that bridge.

[PLO]

Objectively bad is just not true.

Jahvon Quinerly has been objectively bad.

As a potential top 5 pick I think it is.

As a non-lottery guy in a bad draft? You're probably right.

[Funcrusher]

My understanding is he's been objectively bad the entire year, because that's what the tape I've watched says. Awesome for him he's tricked some of you because seemingly you've only looked at box scores or stats, I suspect actual scouts in the NBA won't be so lenient.

Also, its great you can deduce he has all these positive characteristics from stats, though how you can get he has "range" with his 3p % is beyond me.

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

If you would actually take the time to look into Little's background as a prospect before college, you would know that his jumper was one of the aspects of his game scouts praised and saw potential in. Emphasis on potential. It's not a complete product by any means, but he has advanced mechanics for his age, has the length and elevation to get his shot off against most anyone, and has flashed the ability to shoot off the dribble. These are facts, and provided you do the necessary research on this kid and his background, you would see that.

I'm sure no one has said Nas' handle is a strength of his game, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Same goes for his range, which is developing but again clearly isn't there yet. And at this point he's certainly not anything more than average defensively (at least off-ball), but I don't think anyone in this thread has disputed that. But he certainly does have the tools to be a a great wing defender, and he's been more than competent as an on-ball defender. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see, and being as the metrics available to quantify Little's defensive impact are garbage, that is what I'm going off on.

So I'm trying to be rational and objective here but what i see on the other end is you distorting what has been said by myself and others to fit your agenda. Because as far as I can tell, no one in this thread has unequivocally said the things that you have claimed the "pro-Little" contingent has said. So I hope i've made my stance clear enough that you couldn't possibly misunderstand it.

[clyde21]

Objectively bad is just not true.

Jahvon Quinerly has been objectively bad.

As a potential top 5 pick I think it is.

As a non-lottery guy in a bad draft? You're probably right.

That's ridiculous. Kevin Knox just went 9th overall. Was he better than Little last season? I don't see it. What about Jayson Tatum who went 3rd overall? Little so far has a better, BPM, TS% and PER than both them of them.

Not sure what you're gripe here with Little is, but it seems misplaced. Outside the lotto guy? That's nonsense.

[clyde21]

Just to build on Jayson Tatum vs. Nassir Little a little bit:

Over their first 9 games, Tatum shot 44/31/84, while Little is shooting 62/26/80.

Their PER40 numbers:

Tatum: 20/9/2
Little: 24/10/1

Advanced metrics:

Tatum: 7.5 BPM, .169 WS/48, 22 PER, 56.6 TS%
Little: 6.8 BPM, .223 WS/48, 24 PER, 59.7 TS%

Again, not picking up what you're putting down broheem. The only discernable difference between them so far is minutes played. Little should be getting 30 mins but Roy Williams has his own head too far up his own behind.

[King Ken]

clyde21, you think Little can be as good as Tatum? I do think it's in Little's best interest to go to a good team and not a sucky one like Tatum did.

[PLO]

Now you're assuming I haven't watched any of his games? And it stands to reason that if he's producing and there is statistical evidence he's producing, there's no way he can be objectively bad. And I can back this based on what I've seen, which is pretty much every game. At this point you are just making blanket statements without backing anything up and ignoring valid points people have made to win an argument. I don't know what you're watching to come to the conclusion he's been bad all year, but it doesn't seem to be based in anything concrete so I will appropriately dismiss it.

You can dismiss it all you want: I will refer to the post reanimator made at the bottom of page 5 of this thread. He's someone who has actually worked with Little in the past.

Also, I'm not the one making blanket statements at all: its you the pro-Little people who are. He's certainly been bad from an NBA prospect standpoint.

Where's the evidence he's a good on-ball defender? Where's the evidence he's a good defender at all? Where's the evidence of his shot making ability? Or his dribbling skills? What about his range? There is no evidence, and until there is, the entirety of your contributions to this thread are not based on reality.

If you would actually take the time to look into Little's background as a prospect before college, you would know that his jumper was one of the aspects of his game scouts praised and saw potential in. Emphasis on potential. It's not a complete product by any means, but he has advanced mechanics for his age, has the length and elevation to get his shot off against most anyone, and has flashed the ability to shoot off the dribble. These are facts, and provided you do the necessary research on this kid and his background, you would see that.

I'm sure no one has said Nas' handle is a strength of his game, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Same goes for his range, which is developing but again clearly isn't there yet. And at this point he's certainly not anything more than average defensively (at least off-ball), but I don't think anyone in this thread has disputed that. But he certainly does have the tools to be a a great wing defender, and he's been more than competent as an on-ball defender. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see, and being as the metrics available to quantify Little's defensive impact are garbage, that is what I'm going off on.

So I'm trying to be rational and objective here but what i see on the other end is you distorting what has been said by myself and others to fit your agenda. Because as far as I can tell, no one in this thread has unequivocally said the things that you have claimed the "pro-Little" contingent has said. So I hope i've made my stance clear enough that you couldn't possibly misunderstand it.

These claims are there, literally in this thread. That's why I quoted them in inverted commas in the post above, I got them verbatim from posts in this thread.

[PLO]

Clyde you're still using stats when Little has cupcaked his way to them. And Tatum? C'mon man. Tatum was a go-to iso scorer par-excellence in college with the sophisticated footwork of an NBA veteran. He and Tatum have nothing in common. Little is so far behind Tatum at the same stage the comparison is ridiculous. Knox also performed against good competition, something Little has yet to do. He also was far and away more advanced than Little is offensively.

To add to that, Little is a bad defender, at some stages even worse than that.

Have you guys even watched Little play? Because that's the vibe I'm getting here.

Both Tatum and Knox were supposed to be offensively minded wings, that's what they were drafted for and that's what they were in college. Little was acclaimed preseason as a defensive juggernaut on one end and a go to guy on the other, and he's been neither.

[big-shot-ROB]

clyde21, you think Little can be as good as Tatum? I do think it's in Little's best interest to go to a good team and not a sucky one like Tatum did.

I think that is benefitial for all rookies. I don't even want to know what Jaylen Brown would be if he was drafted by Orlando or Phoenix.

[No-Man]

I think the problem is that for Nas to be successful at UNC (emphasis added) he needs to be used like Luke Maye. That is not happening with Maye on the roster. They need to have him mid range curl, get screens for the other big to find mismatches on the block, and pick and pop.

Maye has been wildly inconsistent this year because teams have figured him. Roy needs Nas and Luke to switch roles depending on the matchups.

Couldn't agree more, either that or use Maye more strictly as a stretch big that actually stays outside of the 3pt line for long stretches

[No-Man]

You guys seem to be giving Little traits that he doesn't actually have. Again, as mentioned earlier, these statistical numbers are basically irrelevant because of the competition he's faced because he's been bad against the good competition he's faced. He's got a crucial few games coming up so we'll see how he performs in them.

Should we not discuss any prospects until March then? Haha. I think we all agree that we will have a better picture of where everyone is by then, but man, this is the purpose of message boards. His worst game of the season came on the road to a team that is looking like a top 3 team this season. Not fair to write him off, not fair to declare him MJ either. It just seems odd that people like you have been so adament about it since the Michigan game and I don’t think that is a coincidence.

Granted I don’t pay as much attention to the Reddish threads, but he isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire right now and his game is not near as dissected as Nas’. Both will be fine IMHO.

I'm not saying don't discuss him, I'm saying don't state stuff like he has "shot making ability" plus "range" and say that he's a "good on ball defender" and has no problem "matching up with quicker wings" when none of those things are true.

Fair enough if you say he had those things in high school, but in college he doesn't have those traits. Posters here are ascribing tools to him that he just doesn't possess based on what we've seen so far at UNC.

There's only so much blame you can place at his coach's feet; like I said I'll be watching his upcoming games with interest, and I truly hope he can turn it around. Its just right now the fictional idea some posters here have of him is very far from the reality of his actual play. There are still many games to go and he can flip things to be the type of prospect many saw at the previous level, fingers crossed that is what happens.

I mean there is a difference between him having those traits, which clearly does and has flashed some of them even at this level, and him putting it together consistently, which he clearly hasn't

Part of it, a big part of it really, it's due to the role he plays, he hasn't had the opportunity of usage to actually flash shot-making ability for example, I can give you the synergy numbers if you want them

So for those, ofc it makes sense to go by what you have seen in HS considering that he is playing a completely different role

I'd agree though that he has looked lost and not up to speed out there, some can be related to physical transformation, new role, and him not fitting as well in college bball as he might in the NBA (the Jaylen Brown argument), but he is clearly also raw when it comes to basketball IQ, that much it's obvious, again he was never touted as a passer or creator, so it isn't that surprising either

I think he has been good and smart off-ball in terms of recognizing missmatches and following what Roy has told him to do out there for the most part, has looked bad when he has tried to do more, but again, dunno if that's related to him not been able to do it, or lack of confidence/skills/body control atm

[No-Man]

More Winslow than Kawhi

he is literally nothing like Winslow who was basically a **** savant defensively for a freshman wing and his best offensive trait other than motor was his passing

[No-Man]

Objectively bad is just not true.

Jahvon Quinerly has been objectively bad.

As a potential top 5 pick I think it is.

As a non-lottery guy in a bad draft? You're probably right.

That's ridiculous. Kevin Knox just went 9th overall. Was he better than Little last season? I don't see it. What about Jayson Tatum who went 3rd overall? Little so far has a better, BPM, TS% and PER than both them of them.

Not sure what you're gripe here with Little is, but it seems misplaced. Outside the lotto guy? That's nonsense.

Tatum was way better than Little as a frosh, it's not even close so far

Tatum showed advanced understanding on both ends, esp on defense, and had a bunch of pro-moves, he had some athletic limitations and that along with his shot profile was the worry with the guy, but he actually improved his explosiveness slightly, part of it probably cause he had a bum ankle at Duke, and he stick to shooting 3s as a rookie, we will see the rest of his career

[No-Man]

Clyde you're still using stats when Little has cupcaked his way to them. And Tatum? C'mon man. Tatum was a go-to iso scorer par-excellence in college with the sophisticated footwork of an NBA veteran. He and Tatum have nothing in common. Little is so far behind Tatum at the same stage the comparison is ridiculous. Knox also performed against good competition, something Little has yet to do. He also was far and away more advanced than Little is offensively.

To add to that, Little is a bad defender, at some stages even worse than that.

Have you guys even watched Little play? Because that's the vibe I'm getting here.

Both Tatum and Knox were supposed to be offensively minded wings, that's what they were drafted for and that's what they were in college. Little was acclaimed preseason as a defensive juggernaut on one end and a go to guy on the other, and he's been neither.

I agree on Tatum, but man Knox, although has probably more skill, esp handling it, made awful decisions out there, I think shooting wise they are about even to be honest, Knox had more opportunities to shoot at a higher volume, it's a wash for me there

Little was always more of a 1on1 type of defender specialist than a defender juggernaut that was a savant on team defense and all that, I think you kinda got it wrong or bought too much into it pre-season, the go-to-guy argument with him was always more as a weapon than a guy that was going to create for others also

[PLO]

Should we not discuss any prospects until March then? Haha. I think we all agree that we will have a better picture of where everyone is by then, but man, this is the purpose of message boards. His worst game of the season came on the road to a team that is looking like a top 3 team this season. Not fair to write him off, not fair to declare him MJ either. It just seems odd that people like you have been so adament about it since the Michigan game and I don’t think that is a coincidence.

Granted I don’t pay as much attention to the Reddish threads, but he isn’t exactly lighting the world on fire right now and his game is not near as dissected as Nas’. Both will be fine IMHO.

I'm not saying don't discuss him, I'm saying don't state stuff like he has "shot making ability" plus "range" and say that he's a "good on ball defender" and has no problem "matching up with quicker wings" when none of those things are true.

Fair enough if you say he had those things in high school, but in college he doesn't have those traits. Posters here are ascribing tools to him that he just doesn't possess based on what we've seen so far at UNC.

There's only so much blame you can place at his coach's feet; like I said I'll be watching his upcoming games with interest, and I truly hope he can turn it around. Its just right now the fictional idea some posters here have of him is very far from the reality of his actual play. There are still many games to go and he can flip things to be the type of prospect many saw at the previous level, fingers crossed that is what happens.

I mean there is a difference between him having those traits, which clearly does and has flashed some of them even at this level, and him putting it together consistently, which he clearly hasn't

Part of it, a big part of it really, it's due to the role he plays, he hasn't had the opportunity of usage to actually flash shot-making ability for example, I can give you the synergy numbers if you want them

So for those, ofc it makes sense to go by what you have seen in HS considering that he is playing a completely different role

I'd agree though that he has looked lost and not up to speed out there, some can be related to physical transformation, new role, and him not fitting as well in college bball as he might in the NBA (the Jaylen Brown argument), but he is clearly also raw when it comes to basketball IQ, that much it's obvious, again he was never touted as a passer or creator, so it isn't that surprising either

I think he has been good and smart off-ball in terms of recognizing missmatches and following what Roy has told him to do out there for the most part, has looked bad when he has tried to do more, but again, dunno if that's related to him not been able to do it, or lack of confidence/skills/body control atm

That's a fair enough post: like I said hopefully he can turn it around and they sort out whatever issues they have there. I don't want to be "right" about someone just for the sake of it on the basis of a few college games when he apparently has displayed talent at a previous level. So fingers crossed he shows a bit more in these next few games and over the rest of the season.