Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[tiderulz]

A lot of my co workers think Allen Iverson was better than D Wade

Well, because he was:
LINK: Player Comparison: Allen Iverson vs. Dwyane Wade

Iverson had more total points scored in nearly 100 less games played. He was a better assist man, and at the PG slot, was an elite defensive rebounder. As well, Iverson was a better defender than Wade, in my opinion.

In the playoffs, Iverson was hand-down a better player than Wade.

The only reason to consider Wade better than Iverson is the nearly 100 more playoff games played (and the titles). But that is more of a reflection of Iverson's horrible supporting cast in most of his seasons' played.


..

ehh, a lot of that can be explained. More assists? Iverson was the PG and had the ball a lot more than Wade at SG. and even at that, he was less that 1 apg more than Wade. Total points - Iverson took 5 more shots per game than Wade, he didnt have to split the team like Wade did with Lebron and Bosh. over his career, he took 3,000 more shots than Wade, so its no surprise he scored more points.

[Nemesis21]

Prime T-Mac murders Prime KD. Don't @ me

Who do I need to @ to get the Magic a relevant roster?

Alex Martins and the DeVos family.

[MoMM]

A lot of my co workers think Allen Iverson was better than D Wade

Well, because he was:
LINK: Player Comparison: Allen Iverson vs. Dwyane Wade

Iverson had more total points scored in nearly 100 less games played. He was a better assist man, and at the PG slot, was an elite defensive rebounder. As well, Iverson was a better defender than Wade, in my opinion.

In the playoffs, Iverson was hand-down a better player than Wade.

The only reason to consider Wade better than Iverson is the nearly 100 more playoff games played (and the titles). But that is more of a reflection of Iverson's horrible supporting cast in most of his seasons' played.


..

ehh, a lot of that can be explained. More assists? Iverson was the PG and had the ball a lot more than Wade at SG. and even at that, he was less that 1 apg more than Wade. Total points - Iverson took 5 more shots per game than Wade, he didnt have to split the team like Wade did with Lebron and Bosh. over his career, he took 3,000 more shots than Wade, so its no surprise he scored more points.

I didn't like Iverson at that time, but it's easier to be more efficient in terms of scoring (or even assists) when you had Shaq, Bosh and LeBron sharing the defense attention. Iverson was double-teamed (or triple) for all of his career and still carried his team to wins and NBA Finals.

[Blue_and_Whte]

elaborate.
What's your definition of monster? Stat padding 32 points on 42% FG ,having no success whatsoever with any roster he was part of for whole lenght of his career or just notion that he had exiting dunks?

Isn't is so damn sad that closest thing to success that hall of famer had is that moment , in 2013 when he entered a game as gray-haired old man in 20 points blowout for team that he played 0 min in regular season?

Again ,what's defined difference between him, somebody who Magic fans love ( despite having zero succes with him, but whatever ), and Carmelo Anthony, one of most hated stars of last two decades?

I see non. All i see is almost stockholm sindrom bias toward player that for whole lenght of his career had nothing but bunch of empty stats to show for.

A guy that carries a team consisting of some of the worst (skill wise) teammates in NBA history isnt stat padding.

The best players he played with in Orlando were Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden, and Gordon Gireck. Are you **** kidding me? Thats called carrying a bunch of bums on your back until that **** breaks which it literally did. Not stat padding. It doesnt surprise me if you didnt actually watch prime tract mcgrady play.

EDIT: My bad he played with 37 year old Horace Grant, and 400 pound shawn Kemp. Oh and how about that Derrick Dial and Robert Archibald. Thats some talent.






Stat padding....are you effing....kidding me?
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Ming, Batier, Alston (old Mutombo off bench) still his ceiling was first round.

Raptors and Rockets both passed first round as soon as he was off roster.
Facts simply don't add up in his favor.

Youre leaving out context

He wasn't an elite player in Toronto. When they made the pos they lost to 3rd place Knicks team with Vince leading the way not Tracy. That was his last season.

In Orlando he drug a decrepit Magic team to the pos for 3 straight seasons. We already talked about that.

In Houston 04-05
made the pos, lost to dirk and the mavs in 7.
05-06 tmac played 47 games with back issues while ming had foot issues. No POs

06-07 3rd seed lost to The 4th seeded jazz that went all the way to the wcf.

07-08 entered the pos with out yao who was again injured.

His career began to derail in Houston due to injuries. Hes best years were wasted i orlando who couldnt put a competent team around him.

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[Blue_and_Whte]

Part of reason why Mac and Answer had no help is fact that they were eating 1/3 of salary cap of their teams.

But pss, nobody wants to hear reality.

Also both of them did nothing with better rosters once they got them.

Iverson with Melo, Camby, Nene, Kleiza, JR lost in first round.
T mac with Battier, Ming , Rafer Alston lost in first round.

IN 2007 nba salary was $53M , he was making $19M.

Similar 1/3 of cap on Mac math was in play when he played for Magic. Magic couldn't do anything with him and Hill clogging 50% of salary. Salary cap disparity is best shown in fact that third highest payed player made three times less than them.

about 1 on 1 game

Watch on YouTube

Durant might be most unguardable 1 on 1 player ever ( in general this is great video to see how amazing all those players are )

Salary isnt the players fault. And tmac eas also unguarsable one on one.

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[OrlChamps2030]

A lot of my co workers think Allen Iverson was better than D Wade

Well, because he was:
LINK: Player Comparison: Allen Iverson vs. Dwyane Wade

Iverson had more total points scored in nearly 100 less games played. He was a better assist man, and at the PG slot, was an elite defensive rebounder. As well, Iverson was a better defender than Wade, in my opinion.

In the playoffs, Iverson was hand-down a better player than Wade.

The only reason to consider Wade better than Iverson is the nearly 100 more playoff games played (and the titles). But that is more of a reflection of Iverson's horrible supporting cast in most of his seasons' played.


..

How could one possibly say Iverson was a better defender than Wade? Wade was an all time great defender and the best shot blocking 2 guard of all time. AI never made the all defensive team

Significantly more efficient, way better advanced stats, better team achievements, more intl success, multiple all defensive teams, FMVP

AI was a better raw scorer with nowhere near the efficiency and had an MVP (didn’t play in lebron era)

Maybe I’m going crazy lol but I don’t see it as comparable, I think I’m going to make a thread on the Player comparison board

[Blue_and_Whte]

A lot of my co workers think Allen Iverson was better than D Wade

Well, because he was:
LINK: Player Comparison: Allen Iverson vs. Dwyane Wade

Iverson had more total points scored in nearly 100 less games played. He was a better assist man, and at the PG slot, was an elite defensive rebounder. As well, Iverson was a better defender than Wade, in my opinion.

In the playoffs, Iverson was hand-down a better player than Wade.

The only reason to consider Wade better than Iverson is the nearly 100 more playoff games played (and the titles). But that is more of a reflection of Iverson's horrible supporting cast in most of his seasons' played.


..

ehh, a lot of that can be explained. More assists? Iverson was the PG and had the ball a lot more than Wade at SG. and even at that, he was less that 1 apg more than Wade. Total points - Iverson took 5 more shots per game than Wade, he didnt have to split the team like Wade did with Lebron and Bosh. over his career, he took 3,000 more shots than Wade, so its no surprise he scored more points.

But Iverson didnt have a bosh or lebron. So yes he had the ball a lot and took more shots. Thats a product of the types of rosters they had. EITHERWAY, Durants not stopping prime tmac some of these kids needs to hop on YouTube and watch full games. Thays not to say it would be easy for Tracy either.

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[drsd]

ehh, a lot of that can be explained. More assists? Iverson was the PG and had the ball a lot more than Wade at SG. and even at that, he was less that 1 apg more than Wade. Total points - Iverson took 5 more shots per game than Wade, he didnt have to split the team like Wade did with Lebron and Bosh. over his career, he took 3,000 more shots than Wade, so its no surprise he scored more points.

To add, in today's stat's, both are horrible three-bball shooters.



..

[Blue_and_Whte]

A lot of my co workers think Allen Iverson was better than D Wade

Well, because he was:
LINK: Player Comparison: Allen Iverson vs. Dwyane Wade

Iverson had more total points scored in nearly 100 less games played. He was a better assist man, and at the PG slot, was an elite defensive rebounder. As well, Iverson was a better defender than Wade, in my opinion.

In the playoffs, Iverson was hand-down a better player than Wade.

The only reason to consider Wade better than Iverson is the nearly 100 more playoff games played (and the titles). But that is more of a reflection of Iverson's horrible supporting cast in most of his seasons' played.


..

How could one possibly say Iverson was a better defender than Wade? Wade was an all time great defender and the best shot blocking 2 guard of all time. AI never made the all defensive team

Significantly more efficient, way better advanced stats, better team achievements, more intl success, multiple all defensive teams, FMVP

AI was a better raw scorer with nowhere near the efficiency and had an MVP (didn’t play in lebron era)

Maybe I’m going crazy lol but I don’t see it as comparable, I think I’m going to make a thread on the Player comparison board

Opinion based on the fact that Iverson was a very good defender? That's how. Tracy was also a very good defender. Theres this myth that Tracy didnt defend which is pure stupidity.

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[drsd]

Tracy was also a very good defender. Theres this myth that Tracy didnt defend which is pure stupidity.

McGrady caused his entire career around defensive excellence. Yes he was never elected to all-NBA-defenive teams. But gosh darnit to heck, he was really, really good on defense.



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[pepe1991]

Iverson was horrid defender as he was gambling on passing lines all the time.
Wade was faster, stronger, more athletic, more effective, better rebounder...

[Bergmaniac]

I didn't like Iverson at that time, but it's easier to be more efficient in terms of scoring (or even assists) when you had Shaq, Bosh and LeBron sharing the defense attention. Iverson was double-teamed (or triple) for all of his career and still carried his team to wins and NBA Finals.

Wade was quite efficient even when he had very little help. Look at the 2009-2010 Miami roster - it's a total joke offensively outside of him, yet he still scored 26.6 PPG on a very solid 56.7 TS% and he was even better in the playoffs.

[basketballRob]

Something Wade did that Iverson didn't was take over a championship series. Down 2-0 to Dallas he averaged 40 ppg the next 4 to lead the Heat to a championship.

[OrlandO]

T-Mac in today’s pace and space NBA averages 35-40 EASILY.

I don't think that would be the case. There's little to no pace and space benefit for bad teams. And it's not like the stars of today are taking more shots. McGrady was a great scorer, but he was already high volume and not super efficient and I don't think that would change today. Maybe he could top out around 35 on a ridiculous amount of shots, but he simply didn't have the game to realistically average anything close 40 even on a really bad team - not back then or now.

[woosah]

League executives believe Indiana might look to move one of its point guards. Darren Collison and Cory Joseph roughly split the position and are both in the final years of their deals. The team is high on rookie Aaron Holiday and could want to clear out room for him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25501657/clippers-scouting-kawhi-leonard-kevin-durant-nba

Any interest? Grant needs to go away.

[JF5]

T-Mac in today’s pace and space NBA averages 35-40 EASILY.

I don't think that would be the case. There's little to no pace and space benefit for bad teams. And it's not like the stars of today are taking more shots. McGrady was a great scorer, but he was already high volume and not super efficient and I don't think that would change today. Maybe he could top out around 35 on a ridiculous amount of shots, but he simply didn't have the game to realistically average anything close 40 even on a really bad team - not back then or now.

A lot of star players were inefficient during his time period. The way offenses were back in the day it was iso-ball play after play for most teams who had just one star player. Players in the modern age who replicates that sort of play is James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Somewhat inefficient but very effective in generating their teams points/opportunities.

[pepe1991]

T-Mac in today’s pace and space NBA averages 35-40 EASILY.

I don't think that would be the case. There's little to no pace and space benefit for bad teams. And it's not like the stars of today are taking more shots. McGrady was a great scorer, but he was already high volume and not super efficient and I don't think that would change today. Maybe he could top out around 35 on a ridiculous amount of shots, but he simply didn't have the game to realistically average anything close 40 even on a really bad team - not back then or now.

A lot of star players were inefficient during his time period. The way offenses were back in the day it was iso-ball play after play for most teams who had just one star player. Players in the modern age who replicates that sort of play is James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Somewhat inefficient but very effective in generating their teams points/opportunities.

Because in post Jordan era ( where eFG% was 50% or bit below ) basketball in nba was di** measuring contest of media hyped "stars" that were leading league in shotjacking.
Iverson had season where , in middle of his prime he had eFG of 41%. That's as bad as Lonzo Ball's rookie year. But ofc he was allstar starter and " needed more help".

Also i find it funny that his efficiency saw zero boost once he was on Olympic roster with Duncan. He kept being his usual- high usage, low effiecny self.
If you read some articles who go in stats, you will figure that there is no co-relation between usage and efficiency. Good players stay effective even with higher usage because they avoid bad shots. Passing is part of usage as well.

[OrlandO]

T-Mac in today’s pace and space NBA averages 35-40 EASILY.

I don't think that would be the case. There's little to no pace and space benefit for bad teams. And it's not like the stars of today are taking more shots. McGrady was a great scorer, but he was already high volume and not super efficient and I don't think that would change today. Maybe he could top out around 35 on a ridiculous amount of shots, but he simply didn't have the game to realistically average anything close 40 even on a really bad team - not back then or now.

A lot of star players were inefficient during his time period. The way offenses were back in the day it was iso-ball play after play for most teams who had just one star player. Players in the modern age who replicates that sort of play is James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Somewhat inefficient but very effective in generating their teams points/opportunities.

That's just his game. He'd play the same today. That's my point. He's not going to suddenly play like KD just because it's a different era. Tmac can't do 30+ ppg on 50% fg no matter what era or team you place him.

[p0peye]

Man, Iverson was so fun to watch, electric. I remember the hype about him, even here in Serbia, during his rookie season. Him and Grant Hill were supposed to be next MJ superstars. Unfortunately, injuries prevented Hill from reaching his ceiling while AI did reach NBA finals, won MVP and was 11-times All Star, but never had much of supporting cast.

I may still have somewhere local sports magazine with article about AI from 1997.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Prime T-Mac murders Prime KD. Don't @ me

Every single time. My only regret is we wasted those years surrounding him with the Pats- Garrett and Burke, Gordon Giricek and GHill’s broken ankle.
A healthy GHill and Prime Tmac.... wow! I think some people forget how good GHill was too before the ankle injury.