Joe Mauer vs Vic Martinez

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Post#21 » by mets87 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:03 pm

consistently!? his career high is 4.
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Post#22 » by tsherkin » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:02 pm

mets87 wrote:consistently!? his career high is 4.


Yes and he's had at least 2 triples for the last 3 seasons (including this one, which is far from over).
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Post#23 » by mets87 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:14 pm

oh boy, 2 triples. that's incredibly significant in a season of 162 games.
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Post#24 » by 34Celtic » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:27 pm

I'm not even going to waste my time on this triples thing. Prince Fielder hit an inside the park homerun...does that mean he is better than Joe Mauer because he can get that extra base?
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Post#25 » by TheOUTLAW » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:14 am

Yeah, I don't really see why you guys are focusing on triples. I still contend that right now Martinez is the better player.
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Post#26 » by tsherkin » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 pm

34Celtic wrote:I'm not even going to waste my time on this triples thing. Prince Fielder hit an inside the park homerun...does that mean he is better than Joe Mauer because he can get that extra base?


1 instance of an event versus a guy who's consistently doing something the other cannot is a fairly weak comparison...

Yes, the overall number of triples is small but mind that the LEADER in triples has rarely been much over 10 the last few years. In fact, in only three of the last 10 seasons has the leader had more than 14.

So it's significant that Mauer is getting that extra bag as often as he is.

Martinez's power makes a compelling argument but the difference in power is at least somewhat mollified by the half-decade age gap.
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Post#27 » by stro4swift » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 pm

I love Victor but I wouldn't hesitate to take Mauer for his defense.
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Post#28 » by mets87 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:42 pm

jesus christ. look up the defintion of consistency. doing something TWICE in 150+ games is the opposite of "consistent."
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Post#29 » by vincanityisdagr8est » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:27 am

Mets87 is right. I would take Mauer, because he is a better overall player. But 10 triples in 374 games isn't really being consistant. Guys like Carl Crawford, Ichiro, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, these are guys who can consistantly leg out triples.
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Post#30 » by Louis0nFire » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:52 pm

I like Maur better, and I think he's a better all around hitter. He's a good guy to build a team with. Although I don't like the leadership of Maur or Martinez. The leadership department, you can't match Posada, Pudge, Varitek.
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Post#31 » by treyZz » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:55 am

I still think Vic is a better hitter. JMO.

It's fairly close. I would obviously take Mauer, because he is better defensively. But I like Vic's bat better.
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Post#32 » by Rodanlee » Thu Aug 9, 2007 12:51 am

It's a question on offense of Power vs. Average, but on defense, Mauer definitely has the edge.
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Post#33 » by tsherkin » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:46 pm

mets87 wrote:jesus christ. look up the defintion of consistency. doing something TWICE in 150+ games is the opposite of "consistent."


Well, no, that's not really true. You have to consider the nature of the achievement before you can measure consistent ability.

I recognize that he's not doing it the way the leaders in triple-hitting are doing it; he's no Carl Crawford and he's not likely to ever approach that level of production as far as hitting triples.

However, the fact remains that he has tripled in all four seasons of his career and tripled 2+ times in three consecutive seasons.

Minding that the LEAGUE LEADER in triples has been under 20 for the last 8/12 years (AL/NL), the fact that he's legging out a pair of triples every year is a good indication that he's got decent speed and is running the bases pretty hard. He's no Rickey Henderson and I'm not saying he is but he's got more in that regard than Martinez and that's worthy of note.

You're getting too hung up on the term "consistent," but that last argument of yours was asinine and ridiculous. Also, FYI, he had 4 triples last season and has 3 so far this year, so you might want to bother looking up his actual number of triples before using 2 as your default value.

Take the league leader in triples from last year, Jose Reyes (he had one more than Crawford, who led the AL with 16). Reyes had 17 triples in 153 games. Do you consider THAT consistent? The point was that Mauer consistently gets a couple of triples a year, which is an indicator of his effort in trying to get there and his ability to do so. The consistency comes across seasons, not within the season. He's CONSISTENTLY hit 2 triples or more for three years running now, which is a fairly strong representation of the notion of consistency (reliability or uniformity of successive results or events).

Anyway, as far as the hitting issue is concerned, you're talking a matter of preference of power or average. Mauer has been above league average in fielding percentage and range factor for three years running now. Martinez is pretty good defensively as well but he lags behind in range factor.

Also, as an aside, I dunno if anyone really cares but Mauer's only year with significant MVP voting was a 6th-place finish; Martinez has managed 18th and 21st; if you're looking for a measure of relative value, there it is. Of course, Martinez is a two-time All-Star to Mauer's single appearance, so take it as you will.

But then again, look at their careers; at the same stage in his career as Mauer is at now, Martinez wasn't significantly better than Mauer was last year. He had a bit more pop in his bat power-wise but he still wasn't as good a hitter overall.
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Post#34 » by cb4_89 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:17 pm

lol tsherkin you crack me up.

2 triples don't mean ****. Who cares if he got them? Its 2 triples.
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Post#35 » by Pierce 4 3 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:43 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:Mauer is clearly the better hitter.. I don't think anyone would argue that.
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Post#36 » by tsherkin » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:43 pm

cb4_89 wrote:lol tsherkin you crack me up.

2 triples don't mean ****. Who cares if he got them? Its 2 triples.


In your opinion, I suppose that's true. I like to think the fact that he's done something CONSISTENTLY that Martinez has not is rather significant.

No, he's not Carl Crawford... but Martinez has a single triple in his career (in 2004) and Mauer has had 2-4 times that many in each of his last three seasons. It's something he can do that Martinez cannot (or has not shown the inclination to work at, anyway).

So no, it means far more than your weak profanity.
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Post#37 » by 34Celtic » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:59 pm

2-4 more times than 1 is still only 2-4. Now if he hit 2-4 more home runs you'd have an arguement, or had 2-4 more times the amount of hits.

Thats like saying Mauer stole 4 bases and Vic stole 2 so Mauer is a better base stealer...which wouldn't necessarily be true
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Post#38 » by tsherkin » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:20 am

34Celtic wrote:2-4 more times than 1 is still only 2-4. Now if he hit 2-4 more home runs you'd have an arguement, or had 2-4 more times the amount of hits.

Thats like saying Mauer stole 4 bases and Vic stole 2 so Mauer is a better base stealer...which wouldn't necessarily be true


Well no... it's functionally different to be hitting 2-4 triples a year versus 0, a lot more so than a difference of +2 stolen bases.

We're talking about something Martinez has done ONCE in his major league career versus Mauer who, while no speed demon, is still achieving a couple of times a year. This is significant. That ability to get leg out the triple is something that he's giving his team that Martinez is not.
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Post#39 » by 34Celtic » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:05 am

so its the same as 2-4 sb's a year as opposed to zero....
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Post#40 » by tsherkin » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:15 am

34Celtic wrote:so its the same as 2-4 sb's a year as opposed to zero....


Err, no?

Because the league leader in stolen bases can top out over 50 SBs, while the league leader in triples hasn't been even at 20 in six years.

20% of the league lead versus 4% is considerably different.

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