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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#301 » by VFX » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:03 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:The east is just so bad. We suck, Miami sucks, Washington sucks and has lost 3 in a row, Detroit is on a 6 game losing streak. Whether we like it or not, I'm pretty sure we are going to end up in the conversation for the eighth seed. With this current roster we might not get it and wind up finishing 9th or 10th but I think it's going to be close.

I'm just open to whatever at this point. If this team fights and plays hard like it did at the beginning of the season I can get on board with the eighth seed, but if they are going to start packing it in and getting blown out on a regular basis I say trade the veterans and play for the lottery.

If they are going to play for the playoffs though, Weham is going to have to stop sitting on their hands for the first time in a year and a half and make a move that gets us in. You cant have Grant and Simmons in your rotation and expect to be win games on a regular basis.


The problem is that with one direction you can want to win as much as possible, still fall short, and wind up with a lesser asset just like the last few seasons. I’m so unclear as to why this organization hasn’t traded the vets that have led this franchise to arguably the worst decade of Magic basketball.

The only reason anyone could possibly give is “winning culture” or “positive development”. As if this team struggles to pull out another 5 games AG and Isaacs development will be exponentially better, which isn’t true or quantifiable. What I have to say in response to that is - talent is king in the nba and without it you are nothing. How you manage the talent matters, but you have to have it first. It pretty clear what direction they should go. Ownership just refuses.

Build around Isaac, Bamba, and possibly AG if they can even be on the court together. That should be the plan heading into the future.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#302 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:12 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote: ... better rebounder...


Wade was a better rebounder than Iverson :o

I do not think we watched the same 1000 games each player played.

..


Wade career high in rpg is 6,4 in single season. 4.7 RPG for career.
Iverson career high 4,7 in single season.
3,7 for career.

Iverson averaged more PPGs and APGs. He also was noticably less efficient.

Comming from guy that has Answer shoes, sleeve, posters, shirt....
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#303 » by EAS Law » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:15 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
EAS Law wrote:TMac never had a co-star like Russ nor did he join the Lakers to carry him to championships. These types of comparisons are ridiculous anyway, but as a player, TMac at least left a Legacy that doesn’t include completely empty accomplishments.

Durant is an extremely skilled player and perhaps in a real situation, he would win a one on one with TMac (which is a childish standard of greatness beyond all words), but Durant’s Achilles heel will always be that his accomplishments mean nothing. Anyone that knows the game or that comes from our generation knows Durant is a fraud.


Lol i can't stress everything wrong with this post.

TMac never had a co-star like Russ nor did he join Lakers to carry him to championships

He had and he did. Ming was the best C in nba, they got instant Shaq-Kobe comparisons, they just failed to do anything.

TMac at least left a Legacy that doesn’t include completely empty accomplishments.

His legacy is nothing but empty stats. Guy passed first round of playoffs as suitboy on Spurs.


but Durant’s Achilles heel will always be that his accomplishments mean nothing.

Championship means championship, you might don't value them as such, but it's subjective opinion, not fact.

Anyone that knows the game or that comes from our generation knows Durant is a fraud

Because he joined stacked team? He left team that refused to pay JAMES HARDEN EXTRA MILLION and traded him for JEREMY LAMB.
He wasn't even drafted by them but Supersonics.
Talking about stacked teams, old fans love to have wet dreams about Showtime Lakers, roster that had FOUR FIRST OVERALL DRAFT PICKS ON SAME ROSTER. Two were not drafted by them, including Jabbar.
Heat did the same in 2011.
Lakers tried the same twice in 21 secnuary alone.
Ditto for Nets.

It's competitive league, goal is to win, by making leverage. It's like you calling smart college kid fraud because he would rathet join good than bad company. :crazy:
What would you rather do? Play with Curry and Klay, living in Bay Area, meca of modern economy and development that allows you to grow bussiness outside basketball, or please "fans" who are nothing more than no-life trolls in most cases and stay in Oklahoma or go to some other low tear team and kill yourself by playing 43 mpg to make playoffs? Part of being succesful is being smart and knowing what's best for you.

I can respect what you’re saying as well, but TMac did not spend his prime years chasing a ring. He jumped from team to team after he was pretty much finished, hoping to win a championship in whatever way he could.

It’s common that players like Malone or Gary Payton or Mourning, who had HOF careers, will join a contender to finally get one before they retire. Durant joined to make his route as easy as possible in the prime of his career. TMac had maybe one or two legitimate opportunities to do anything with Yao. The Houston stint was short-lived as far as any window is concerned.

I know you’re a stats guy and typically delve very deep to make certain points, but you realize that the big picture you have here is that TMac wasn’t very good and that’s simply not true. Put Kevin Durant on the Hawks right now and see what he does. That would be a more fair comparison.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#304 » by CalOrl11 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:17 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#305 » by EAS Law » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:20 pm

drsd wrote:
EAS Law wrote:TMac never had a co-star like Russ nor did he join the Lakers to carry him to championships.


But McGrady could have been patient with Howard (and perhaps won a title waiting those 2-3 years of development). But nope, he bailed on the Magic.


..

Agreed. As a young fan, I was pretty devastated when TMac left. Once I learned about how it all happened, I understood. Apparently, there were a lot of awful, awful roster decisions that Doc had a huge hand in making and TMac has to score about 40-50 pts a night just to give us a chance. I understand why he needed to go.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#306 » by Tarheel » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:26 pm

CalOrl11 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Meanwhile, the long-underrated Ross is averaging 14.1 points on a sizzling 57 percent shooting. “His value might be out of the Lakers’ range,” Deveney wrote.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#307 » by OrlandO » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:27 pm

CalOrl11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Likely looking for a Ross - KCP swap. No thanks.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#308 » by OrlandO » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:55 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#309 » by JF5 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
He had and he did. Ming was the best C in nba, they got instant Shaq-Kobe comparisons, they just failed to do anything.


This is hugely mis-characterized. Out of the 5 years Yao/Mac played together they only were able to play in 2 playoff series together (05 and 07) because one or the other was consistently injured during their tenure. If they were able to simultaneously stay healthy and build the chemistry/rapport during that period of time who knows could've happened.

Also the injuries that were accumulated by T-Mac at the time slowed him down from being the player he was when was in Orlando after his first year with the Rockets.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#310 » by j-ragg » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:01 pm

OrlandO wrote:
Read on Twitter

I actually agree with Fournier on this. Guys post stuff to Twitter all the time like that, comparing one legend versus another. Not like he called TMac trash. KD might be the best scorer of all time individually, no shame in that.

But since it's Fournier, I just want to take TMac's side.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#311 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:02 pm

JF5 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
He had and he did. Ming was the best C in nba, they got instant Shaq-Kobe comparisons, they just failed to do anything.


This is hugely mis-characterized. Out of the 5 years Yao/Mac played together they only were able to play in 2 playoff series together (05 and 07) because one or the other was consistently injured during their tenure. If they were able to simultaneously stay healthy and build the chemistry/rapport during that period of time who knows could've happened.

Also the injuries that were accumulated by T-Mac at the time slowed him down from being the player he was when was in Orlando after his first year with the Rockets.

again Pepe is leaving out context to push his opinion. He destroyed his body having to be our best offensive and defensive player while playing with a bunch of corpses. injuries plagued his time in Houston, and he wasn't an elite player yet in Toronto. All of his arguments are flawed.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#312 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:03 pm

j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
Read on Twitter

I actually agree with Fournier on this. Guys post stuff to Twitter all the time like that, comparing one legend versus another. Not like he called TMac trash. KD might be the best scorer of all time individually, no shame in that.

But since it's Fournier, I just want to take TMac's side.

I agree with him too. Tmac got a little too sensitive imo.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#313 » by OrlandO » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:08 pm

j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
Read on Twitter

I actually agree with Fournier on this. Guys post stuff to Twitter all the time like that, comparing one legend versus another. Not like he called TMac trash. KD might be the best scorer of all time individually, no shame in that.

But since it's Fournier, I just want to take TMac's side.

F tmac... he craps on the magic every chance he gets. "I bleed Magic" my ass....
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#314 » by j-ragg » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:17 pm

OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
Read on Twitter

I actually agree with Fournier on this. Guys post stuff to Twitter all the time like that, comparing one legend versus another. Not like he called TMac trash. KD might be the best scorer of all time individually, no shame in that.

But since it's Fournier, I just want to take TMac's side.

F tmac... he craps on the magic every chance he gets. "I bleed Magic" my ass....

I've always thought the same thing. On Rachel Nichols show he's laughed at the roster for years and how they've been terrible. he's not wrong, but I always thought it was an odd thing to do then come to games and talk about how much you love the team and the city. if they were thought-out critiques it'd be one thing, but just laughing at them on national tv doesn't scream bleeding Magic to me.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#315 » by Xatticus » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:21 pm

j-ragg wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote: ... better rebounder...


Wade was a better rebounder than Iverson :o

I do not think we watched the same 1000 games each player played.

..

I think Wade was > AI on defense, and >>> AI as a rebounder. I think AI was a little overrated as a basketball player, because he kind of evolved the league with his style. Not that he wasn't good, but if he were in the league today I don't think people would have such high praise for his game.


I was at the 2001 All-Star game where Iverson led a huge comeback and won the MVP award. It was a really special performance that few players could replicate because it requires an unconscionable belief in one's own ability to score; particularly on an All-Star roster.

For as great as Iverson could be, he was at least as likely to shoot you out of a game, which really undermined the ceiling of any roster he was on.

Some people really appreciate players that can put on a show like that, but I prefer those that consistently perform at a high level. Some players are capable of impactful contributions without having a significant role at the offensive end. If you can find a player that is capable of as much, yet can also score efficiently in a large offensive role, you have a really special player.

This is why I value Wade and Durant over Iverson and McGrady.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#316 » by NavalAviator94 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:38 pm

OrlandO wrote:
CalOrl11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Likely looking for a Ross - KCP swap. No thanks.


I suggested something like this with Ross + Pick/Players(DJ or Simmons?) for Lonzo Ball in the trade idea thread. Keep our flexibility for the summer and go after another PG who can also play off the ball, ideally Kemba or one of the other PG's out there. Re-sign Vuc + other depth + our likely lottery pick.

As much as I love Ross, he likely has the most trade value on our team with his off the charts shooting, ability to play the 2 or the 3 and is a plus defender. For the Lakers it would be ideal playing off Lebron (and Rondo) for their playoff run. They maintain flexibility in the summer but also retain his bird right's.

Regardless of the above, what are some potential trade scenarios with Ross?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#317 » by tiderulz » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:57 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
CalOrl11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Likely looking for a Ross - KCP swap. No thanks.


I suggested something like this with Ross + Pick/Players(DJ or Simmons?) for Lonzo Ball in the trade idea thread. Keep our flexibility for the summer and go after another PG who can also play off the ball, ideally Kemba or one of the other PG's out there. Re-sign Vuc + other depth + our likely lottery pick.

As much as I love Ross, he likely has the most trade value on our team with his off the charts shooting, ability to play the 2 or the 3 and is a plus defender. For the Lakers it would be ideal playing off Lebron (and Rondo) for their playoff run. They maintain flexibility in the summer but also retain his bird right's.

Regardless of the above, what are some potential trade scenarios with Ross?

I would trade Ross for Ball, i would not add any pick. Ball is overrated as a lead guard and as a prospect. If a redraft was done, doubtful he is a lottery pick.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#318 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:07 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
CalOrl11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Likely looking for a Ross - KCP swap. No thanks.


I suggested something like this with Ross + Pick/Players(DJ or Simmons?) for Lonzo Ball in the trade idea thread. Keep our flexibility for the summer and go after another PG who can also play off the ball, ideally Kemba or one of the other PG's out there. Re-sign Vuc + other depth + our likely lottery pick.

As much as I love Ross, he likely has the most trade value on our team with his off the charts shooting, ability to play the 2 or the 3 and is a plus defender. For the Lakers it would be ideal playing off Lebron (and Rondo) for their playoff run. They maintain flexibility in the summer but also retain his bird right's.

Regardless of the above, what are some potential trade scenarios with Ross?


TRoss is an interesting trade because for me I'd rather keep him and resign him to a contract close to what he has now. For a team with such poor shooting and guys who can come off bench and score why let him go? I'm not interested in taking on salary and future pick ( FO doesn't value 2nd round picks or even late 1sts) for TRoss. TRoss could be our Iguodala in a playoff run where he's 3 and D guy killing 2nd teams and hitting clutch shots late.

Not touching Lonzo he's a hyped guard who cant shoot. Lonzo is lucky Lebron came to town because the pressure is off him to become a star/show he's worth lottery pick.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#319 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:25 pm

Why Tmac even cares what Evan thinks?
Backstabbing? You changed 3 teams in 6 years, why act like others don't remember how you left. Runned from Raptors because you didn't like your cousin being bigger star. But ofc nobody wants to talk about it now.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#320 » by NavalAviator94 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:33 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Why Tmac even cares what Evan thinks?
Backstabbing? You changed 3 teams in 6 years, why act like others don't remember how you left. Runned from Raptors because you didn't like your cousin being bigger star. But ofc nobody wants to talk about it now.
Him and Vince had potential to be special, but he wanted no part of it and own team.



Because Tmac knows his career has asterisks around them and he's very sensitive to it. Once he was nominated for the hall of fame(on TV he found out), his ego has been nauseating.

The biggest problem with Tmac to me outside of his injuries was his lack of leadership. That was never something he was good at.

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