The officiating problem encapsulated

Moderators: cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid

User avatar
theonlyclutch
Veteran
Posts: 2,795
And1: 3,729
Joined: Mar 03, 2015
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#41 » by theonlyclutch » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:28 am

stevegb wrote:
xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Per Wiretap



The fact that this is a mindset, let alone a mindset players feel free to publicly complain about, is ridiculous. There should be nothing you can do as offensive player that *draws more calls.* Whether you're fouled, or not, should be entirely dependent upon whether the defender actually fouls you. If you're jumping into defenders, falling down after the slightest body contract on a drive, or flailing your arms on clean blocks, you shouldn't be getting the call.

The NBA created this by rewarding floppers and guys like James Harden who just jump into people for the whistle.


They created it when "star calls" became a thing.


Hardens free throw rate (FTA/FGA):
in his 2nd and 3rd seasons off the bench with OKC - 0.542
With the Rockets - 0.545

Was he getting 'star calls' as a bench player in OKC as well?
theonlyclutch's AT FGA-limited team - The Malevolent Eight

PG: 2008 Chauncey Billups/ 2013 Kyle Lowry
SG: 2005 Manu Ginobili/2012 James Harden
SF: 1982 Julius Erving
PF: 2013 Matt Bonner/ 2010 Amir Johnson
C: 1977 Kareem Abdul Jabaar
Golden Knight
Analyst
Posts: 3,329
And1: 4,965
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#42 » by Golden Knight » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:41 am

stevegb wrote:They created it when "star calls" became a thing.

You know something is f'ed up when the calls are different for rookies/journeymen to superstars, different from player to player, when calls are different during the regular season and different during the playoffs.
lambchop
RealGM
Posts: 10,049
And1: 10,112
Joined: May 14, 2014

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#43 » by lambchop » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:42 am

Dr Aki wrote:Image


absolutely disgusting.
That said, Harden is a basketball genius. He understands the rules of the game and what he has to do to get foul calls and free throws (his most lethal weapon) using the current rules / politics. But it's still absolutely disgusting
So many people who attain the heights of power in this culture—celebrities, for instance—have to make a show of false humility and modesty, as if they got as far as they did by accident and not by ego or ambition.
Patsfan1081
RealGM
Posts: 12,247
And1: 5,743
Joined: Jan 06, 2015

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#44 » by Patsfan1081 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:43 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:


One of these guys shoots a hell of a lot more 3's which grossly skews this. One of these guys doesn't use a fadeaway jumper as a staple of his game, despite having a good if not great fadeaway. Funny how that works....


One of these guys has one of the worst finishing through contact rates among all star players in his generation. a ten percent and one rate on foul calls in a year is proof your looking for contact first and scoring the ball second. It's the refs fault though for not seeing the pattern.
nedleeds
General Manager
Posts: 9,043
And1: 8,091
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
Location: Bridgeport, NY
Contact:
       

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#45 » by nedleeds » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:02 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
nedleeds wrote:The refs are just brainwashed at this point. Untraining the existing awful ones would be harder than training new ones to not call the head jerking, shot by a .45 reactions. The travel off the catch is now over called, actual traveling off the dribble isn't called and post calls are a magic 8 ball. Train G league refs to call actual basketball, not acting then fire all the NBA turds.


The nba has the best refs in all of pro sports....just saying.....


They used to. Now they are terrible. In their defense the league hasn't helped empower them, the players cry after every call or no-call, the leagues promise to punish flopping after the game via public fining was an utter load of bull and the gambling cloud still hasn't left this current crop. Regardless at this point they are cooked, they can't unlearn their awful habits, they can't seem to just 'make' the no call on all these flops - in fact they relish calling it sometimes.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 12,280
And1: 5,259
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#46 » by Kilo » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm

There is strategy though because players can foul out and play much less aggressive when they are in foul trouble. So it's a way to get opposition starters out of the game.
Weaver = Hinkie
VW to Portland :pray:
Spanish_Laker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,672
And1: 2,011
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#47 » by Spanish_Laker » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Harden is a disgrace to the NBA thanks to the refs. A hell of a player, don't get me wrong, but this guy gets the most BS calls in NBA history, it is really difficult to like or root for a team whose main player is a flopper.
Banned after 15 years in this forum for no reason. Farewell RealGM users
Eskobar13
Starter
Posts: 2,013
And1: 1,325
Joined: Jan 02, 2018
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#48 » by Eskobar13 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:34 pm

Sounds like what a lot of you wish for is:

- Harden playing for your team.
- The NBA changes the rules of basketball.
r0drig0lac
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,980
And1: 5,646
Joined: Dec 24, 2015
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#49 » by r0drig0lac » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:07 pm

sogood wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25530583/lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers-frustrated-calls-houston-rockets

Lonzo Ball on defending Rockets: 'You can't touch them'


The Los Angeles Lakers found themselves so frustrated by the officiating in the second half of Thursday's 126-111 loss to the Houston Rockets that several players, LeBron James and Lonzo Ball among them, purposely held their hands behind their backs on a series of defensive possessions to make a point to the referees.

video?
tondi123
Starter
Posts: 2,030
And1: 1,376
Joined: Dec 07, 2011

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#50 » by tondi123 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:16 pm

sogood wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's because Harden is the most amazing and unstoppable offensive force of all time. The defender should have been "smarter" and not ran past half court.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 51,164
And1: 34,001
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#51 » by og15 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:24 pm

Dr Aki wrote:Image

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 50,750
And1: 27,372
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#52 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:42 pm

nedleeds wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
nedleeds wrote:The refs are just brainwashed at this point. Untraining the existing awful ones would be harder than training new ones to not call the head jerking, shot by a .45 reactions. The travel off the catch is now over called, actual traveling off the dribble isn't called and post calls are a magic 8 ball. Train G league refs to call actual basketball, not acting then fire all the NBA turds.


The nba has the best refs in all of pro sports....just saying.....


They used to. Now they are terrible. In their defense the league hasn't helped empower them, the players cry after every call or no-call, the leagues promise to punish flopping after the game via public fining was an utter load of bull and the gambling cloud still hasn't left this current crop. Regardless at this point they are cooked, they can't unlearn their awful habits, they can't seem to just 'make' the no call on all these flops - in fact they relish calling it sometimes.


The problem is the players might be flopping but they are ALSO being fouled. Harden is the perfect example of a guy who's flops are to push the refs, but he rarely flops without getting fouled. Que people responding with a bad flop video to and ignoring the point.
r0drig0lac
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,980
And1: 5,646
Joined: Dec 24, 2015
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#53 » by r0drig0lac » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:56 pm

Golden Knight
Analyst
Posts: 3,329
And1: 4,965
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#54 » by Golden Knight » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:05 pm

og15 wrote:This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

My reaction's the opposite. I think he gets to the line way too often for someone who shoots a lot of 3's. I always felt like he's probably the most fouled player in the 3 point area (in addition to getting a ton of calls on his drives to the basket). I hope somebody have a stat on that.

Percentage of total points scored from FTs:
Lebron 22% of his points came from FTs
Jordan - 22.7%
Kobe - 24.9%
Durant - 25.3%
Harden - 30.5%

Curry - 15.7% (2843 more FGs than FTs)
Lillard - 22.2% (1276 more FGs than FTs)
Westbrook - 25.34% (1697 more FGs than FTs)
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 51,164
And1: 34,001
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#55 » by og15 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Golden Knight wrote:
og15 wrote:This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

My reaction's the opposite. I think he gets to the line way too often for someone who shoots a lot of 3's. I always felt like he's probably the most fouled player in the 3 point area (in addition to getting a ton of calls on his drives to the basket). I hope somebody have a stat on that.

Percentage of total points scored from FTs:
Lebron 22% of his points came from FTs
Jordan - 22.7%
Kobe - 24.9%
Durant - 25.3%
Harden - 30.5%

Curry - 15.7%
Lillard - 22.2%
All those other guys don't avoid mid-range like the plague though. Harden shoots a lot of three's, but that's just in place of all those other guys mid-range shots. Is he shooting more shots from let's say 16 feet out that the other guys? I doubt it. Despite shooting a lot of three's, he also drives a lot, probably as much or more than anyone else. Isn't it something like 40%+ of his FGA are inside 10 feet?

This doesn't negate that the guy has made himself into a master foul drawer, but he does put himself in places to draw fouls.

Sent from my SM-G955W using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Baski
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,533
And1: 3,950
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#56 » by Baski » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm

Dr Aki wrote:Image


That's really sad to see. Honestly don't see how this kind of stuff can be applauded. Thank God It's generally seen as a shameful way of playing by fans and players alike. I mean can you imagine how terrible it would be if hundreds of kids grew up idolizing Harden and actually tried emulating his play in the NBA? Games would be unwatchable, especially due to the ones who just aren't as good as he is and would end up looking stupid trying to draw fouls like him. I will say that it's hilarious how little of a **** he seems to give about his perception around the league. I wonder how many players actually like him off the court.
Jon1798
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,737
And1: 2,633
Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#57 » by Jon1798 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Is you wanted to see the problem with officiating, watch any single Pelicans game. Jrue Holiday is 6’4 and quick as lightening. He barrels to the rim and never gets a call. Then Anthony Davis stumbles over his giraffe legs and is shooting two.
"This post wants out of New Orleans" - Woj
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 35,828
And1: 25,125
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#58 » by E-Balla » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:30 pm

r0drig0lac wrote:
:lol:

Just started the video and those first 2 calls on Kuzma are unacceptable.
Golden Knight
Analyst
Posts: 3,329
And1: 4,965
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
   

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#59 » by Golden Knight » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:38 pm

r0drig0lac wrote:
:lol:

Green's "offensive foul" at 5:51 really stayed? Nobody corrected that?
Jon1798
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,737
And1: 2,633
Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#60 » by Jon1798 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:38 pm

E-Balla wrote:
r0drig0lac wrote:
:lol:

Just started the video and those first 2 calls on Kuzma are unacceptable.


Get to the end where Harden gets THREE different three point attempt fouls, and then Kuzma is run over while shooting a three and nothing, and then he is called for a foul directly afterwards because Chris Paul threw his head back. That’s sucks lol.

It’s a bit funny seeing Lebron complain but still.
"This post wants out of New Orleans" - Woj

Return to The General Board