Should Jon Leuer be in our regular rotation?

[bstein14]

I feel like Jon has been decent since getting some garbage minutes in a blowout. I know everyone here doesn't really care for his contract, but putting that aside I think he might be better for our team most nights off the bench vs ZaZa.

Zaza can for sure come in against more traditional bigs on occasion but it seems like a lot of teams have smaller bigs coming off the bench and Jon's perimeter shooting and ability to run the floor with a somewhat run and gun 2nd unit seems like he might fit better. At first, once Stanley was getting backup PF minutes and playing well at that position I thought for sure Jon's season was going to be spent riding the pine but now I think he might make sense going forward as our backup 5 most nights.

[DET_Athletics]

I think he should be in the rotation just to try keep what little if any value he has. There is no way he is riding out the rest of his contract with us.

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[Canadafan]

Yes. Game vs Celts he looked good. Took Zaza's minutes. Him SJ Brown Galloway with Ish when he gets back give us a pretty nice bench.

[pistonsbball]

For now. He can score, which a lot of guys we have struggle to do consistently. I wish he could make the 3 as advertised.

[Kilo]

Issue being Stanley is playing decently finally at the four. Do you stunt Johnson to placate Leuer? I don't think Leuer is a center - he doesn't have the mentality to guard it. In an emergency sure, but I wouldn't put him there in front of Zaza in most situations.

Was Leuer ever advertised as a SF? I don't ever remember that.

I'd be open to trading Johnson for a pure SF who can hit the three and then use Leuer as Griff's back-up though without much concern. I think Leuer is an NBA caliber back-up/rotation player.

[Billl]

Meh - it's just matchups at this point. And potential foul trouble issues with Dre. Both Leuer and Zaza can be NBA rotation players, but neither are really good enough that they force other teams to match up with them. It's not like if teams go small in the second unit, then we are going to pound it to zaza to make them pay.

[DetroitSho]

Meh - it's just matchups at this point. And potential foul trouble issues with Dre. Both Leuer and Zaza can be NBA rotation players, but neither are really good enough that they force other teams to match up with them. It's not like if teams go small in the second unit, then we are going to pound it to zaza to make them pay.

Right, basically it's just dependent on matchups. I don't think he should be guaranteed minutes every game but in situations it makes sense we have to go to him.

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[thesack12]

"Should" have just kept Moreland and his ability to backup the 4 and 5.

[Kilo]

"Should" have just kept Moreland and his ability to backup the 4 and 5.

Moreland is a open gym/street baller. He doesn't do the professional little things that Zaza does. Casey didn't want to have another developmental - same with Calderon over Buycks - when Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson and the two SRP's all needed to be developed/fixed/rescued careers.

[thesack12]

"Should" have just kept Moreland and his ability to backup the 4 and 5.

Moreland is a open gym/street baller. He doesn't do the professional little things that Zaza does. Casey didn't want to have another developmental - same with Calderon over Buycks - when Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson and the two SRP's all needed to be developed/fixed/rescued careers.

Moreland proved he possesses + rebounding skill & very good defensive ability last season.

Its pretty obvious why Zaza ended up signing in Detroit of all places for the minimum. Cousins' return is still up in the air and he'll be trying to come back from arguably the worst injusry in sports especially for a big man. If GSW still valued Zaza they would have brought him back for the minimum to have a familiar insurance policy in place. But they chose not to, and apparently no other good teams were interested in Zaza either or else he wouldn't be a Piston right now.

As for the developmental argument, other than Ellenson who is clearly a lost cause, all of the guys you listed are perimeter players. I don't see a reason why it would have been an issue to have a younger (NBA experience wise) frontcourt player in the fold who already proved to be a solid/steady contributor and was locked up for 2 seasons dirt cheap.

[Kilo]

"Should" have just kept Moreland and his ability to backup the 4 and 5.

Moreland is a open gym/street baller. He doesn't do the professional little things that Zaza does. Casey didn't want to have another developmental - same with Calderon over Buycks - when Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson and the two SRP's all needed to be developed/fixed/rescued careers.

Moreland proved he possesses + rebounding skill & very good defensive ability last season.

Its pretty obvious why Zaza ended up signing in Detroit of all places for the minimum. Cousins' return is still up in the air and he'll be trying to come back from arguably the worst injusry in sports especially for a big man. If GSW still valued Zaza they would have brought him back for the minimum to have a familiar insurance policy in place. But they chose not to, and apparently no other good teams were interested in Zaza either or else he wouldn't be a Piston right now.

As for the developmental argument, other than Ellenson who is clearly a lost cause, all of the guys you listed are perimeter players. I don't see a reason why it would have been an issue to have a younger (NBA experience wise) frontcourt player in the fold who already proved to be a solid/steady contributor and was locked up for 2 seasons dirt cheap.

Moreland only recently signed - he hung out all off-season and the first two months of this season without any team throwing him a contract. We'll see how he does in PHX where winning basketball doesn't matter. I wouldn't want him as our primary Ce back-up or choose him over Zaza, but hindsight 20/20 I'd have kept him over Ellenson. Of course Ellenson was guaranteed already and he had that wonky non-guaranteed contract so basically had to go given our roster imbalance.

[440BB]

Although Johnson has been showing up decently at backup PF, I think Leuer needs to be in the rotation primarily as a PF to keep Griffin from wearing out. Add in a little time as the small ball center and there's about 15 minutes a game for him, depending on matchups.

If Leuer and Johnson can keep the game even and Griffin's minutes can get closer to 30 he'll likely be closer to 100% throughout the season. With regular minutes Leuer can perform pretty well now that he's healthy.

[DetroitSho]

Although Johnson has been showing up decently at backup PF, I think Leuer needs to be in the rotation primarily as a PF to keep Griffin from wearing out. Add in a little time as the small ball center and there's about 15 minutes a game for him, depending on matchups.

If Leuer and Johnson can keep the game even and Griffin's minutes can get closer to 30 he'll likely be closer to 100% throughout the season. With regular minutes Leuer can perform pretty well now that he's healthy.

Under no circumstance should he be playing center. His rebounding and rim protection is ass.

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[The_Irony]

we really need to be done with these horrible SVG signings like Jackson and leuer.

I only like jon because he comes off as working as hard as he can, but I wish he wasn't on my team

[bstein14]

we really need to be done with these horrible SVG signings like Jackson and leuer.

I only like jon because he comes off as working as hard as he can, but I wish he wasn't on my team

I feel like if Jon didn't get injured, and he signed like a 4 year $24 million deal I'd probably have really liked him. I'd be fine with that as our 8th, 9th, or 10th guy off the bench. He just got overpaid a bit in a summer where huge deals were handed out everywhere and the injury didn't help either but his play the last few games reminds me why I kind of liked him in his first season with us. He takes mostly nothing but good shots and he hustles... He's shooting 60% from the floor we just need him to get his three point shooting back.

[thesack12]

Moreland is a open gym/street baller. He doesn't do the professional little things that Zaza does. Casey didn't want to have another developmental - same with Calderon over Buycks - when Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson and the two SRP's all needed to be developed/fixed/rescued careers.

Moreland proved he possesses + rebounding skill & very good defensive ability last season.

Its pretty obvious why Zaza ended up signing in Detroit of all places for the minimum. Cousins' return is still up in the air and he'll be trying to come back from arguably the worst injusry in sports especially for a big man. If GSW still valued Zaza they would have brought him back for the minimum to have a familiar insurance policy in place. But they chose not to, and apparently no other good teams were interested in Zaza either or else he wouldn't be a Piston right now.

As for the developmental argument, other than Ellenson who is clearly a lost cause, all of the guys you listed are perimeter players. I don't see a reason why it would have been an issue to have a younger (NBA experience wise) frontcourt player in the fold who already proved to be a solid/steady contributor and was locked up for 2 seasons dirt cheap.

Moreland only recently signed - he hung out all off-season and the first two months of this season without any team throwing him a contract. We'll see how he does in PHX where winning basketball doesn't matter. I wouldn't want him as our primary Ce back-up or choose him over Zaza, but hindsight 20/20 I'd have kept him over Ellenson. Of course Ellenson was guaranteed already and he had that wonky non-guaranteed contract so basically had to go given our roster imbalance.

I think a lot of the reason why Moreland was a free agent for so long is very much the same why there didn't seem to be much interest in Zaza, which is the stretch 5 is the current flavor du jour. But the difference between Moreland and Zaza is Eric is a young 26 (NBA experience wise) and Zaza is 34. Moreland also has a lot more mobility and athleticism to better defend today's frontcourt players.

I realize I'm one of the very few who were/are high on Moreland. I just personally value energetic guys who give consistently give high effort on defense. Which is a lot of the reason why I like Bruce Brown so much. Good defenders who constantly bring energy will very rarely be a net negative on the floor from an individual standpoint.

I fully believe Eric Moreland has a place in this league and that he still has some upside left to squeeze out of him. If not, I'm fine falling on that sword if need be.

And yes, I agree entering the season with anybody other than Henry Ellenson would most likely have been better. But you're right the team was pretty much obligated to do so since they locked in his 3rd year option. It does make me wonder why the deadline to pick up options on rookie contracts happens so early. A lot can change in the the 6 months and 75 or so games between the decision deadline and the offseason.

[thesack12]

we really need to be done with these horrible SVG signings like Jackson and leuer.

I only like jon because he comes off as working as hard as he can, but I wish he wasn't on my team

I feel like if Jon didn't get injured, and he signed like a 4 year $24 million deal I'd probably have really liked him. I'd be fine with that as our 8th, 9th, or 10th guy off the bench. He just got overpaid a bit in a summer where huge deals were handed out everywhere and the injury didn't help either but his play the last few games reminds me why I kind of liked him in his first season with us. He takes mostly nothing but good shots and he hustles... He's shooting 60% from the floor we just need him to get his three point shooting back.

Get his 3 point shooting "back?" When did he ever have it?

Sure he shot 46.9% from deep in 13-14 but that was on a whopping 1 attempt per game and 49 total shots. The only other time in his career his long ball was solid was in 15-16 shooting 38.2%, but that was on only 1.6 shots per game and 110 total shots. Take those 2 seasons out of the equation and he's a combined 27.4% on 215 total shots across parts of 6 seasons.

In addition this guy only played more than 15 minutes per game once in 5 seasons before coming to Detroit. He couldn't even be considered a legit rotation player.

The Leuer signing was truly hideous from both a dollar amount and length of contract. Giving a veteran who is a fringe rotation player more than a 1 year guaranteed contract is flirting with trouble, let alone 4 years @ $10 mil per.

[pistonsbball]

we really need to be done with these horrible SVG signings like Jackson and leuer.

I only like jon because he comes off as working as hard as he can, but I wish he wasn't on my team

I feel like if Jon didn't get injured, and he signed like a 4 year $24 million deal I'd probably have really liked him. I'd be fine with that as our 8th, 9th, or 10th guy off the bench. He just got overpaid a bit in a summer where huge deals were handed out everywhere and the injury didn't help either but his play the last few games reminds me why I kind of liked him in his first season with us. He takes mostly nothing but good shots and he hustles... He's shooting 60% from the floor we just need him to get his three point shooting back.

Get his 3 point shooting "back?" When did he ever have it?

Sure he shot 46.9% from deep in 13-14 but that was on a whopping 1 attempt per game and 49 total shots. The only other time in his career his long ball was solid was in 15-16 shooting 38.2%, but that was on only 1.6 shots per game and 110 total shots. Take those 2 seasons out of the equation and he's a combined 27.4% on 215 total shots across parts of 6 seasons.

In addition this guy only played more than 15 minutes per game once in 5 seasons before coming to Detroit. He couldn't even be considered a legit rotation player.

The Leuer signing was truly hideous from both a dollar amount and length of contract. Giving a veteran who is a fringe rotation player more than a 1 year guaranteed contract is flirting with trouble, let alone 4 years @ $10 mil per.

Yep. Think he'd made like 70 total 3's before the deal. We paid big for essentially a pretty average face-up 4.

[hoophabit]

I'm glad to see Jon moving and playing well. Before his injury issues he looked very solid. He's not a star, and isn't being paid like one. Hope he can keep it up.

[vege]

Zaza is better than Leuer, but Leuer is playable. He should be on a minimum contract not a 10 mil per year contract.